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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures they are taking
to protect nurseries and schools from terrorist attack.
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(Lab)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name
on the Order Paper and I refer to my interests in policing
and security as set out in the register.
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The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of
Trafford) (Con)
My Lords, schools and nurseries have a legal responsibility
to ensure that staff and pupils are safe, including in the
event of a terrorist attack. The Government provide a range
of advice to help them fulfil their responsibilities. The
National Counter Terrorism Security Office also provides
specialist advice on staying safe in the event of an attack,
including tailored advice for education establishments, which
schools and nurseries are able to draw upon.
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My Lords, not for the first time I think that the Minister
has drawn the short straw on the Government Front Bench, in
that this is really a Question on what the Department for
Education is doing about this. Two years ago I made a
recommendation that every school governing body should
appoint one of their members to take a lead in overseeing
work on security and protecting pupils in the event of some
attack of this nature. The Department for Education’s
response was to say, no, it would leave it to individual
schools. That response was then criticised by the head
teachers’ associations which said they would welcome such
general guidance. Will the Minister talk to her colleagues in
the Department for Education so that it actually provides
some guidance and a framework for schools to protect children
in the event of such an attack?
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I am very aware of the noble Lord’s advice and
recommendations on governing bodies and a single person on a
governing body. Governing bodies have to make a judgment as a
whole on the health, safety and protective measures that they
need to put in their schools. As for guidance, clearly the
last year has been unprecedented in terms of security
generally and our schools are no less vulnerable. The DfE is
currently reviewing its health, safety and school security
advice, giving consideration to how guidance material can
improve advice that is given to schools.
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(LD)
My Lords, the matter that the noble Lord, , is referring to is
recommendation 121 of his comprehensive report about London’s
preparedness to deal with terrorism. Recommendation 11 of
that report states that it is essential that UK policing is
able to maintain the required international arrangements that
currently work to keep us safe. There is no precedent for a
non-EU country that is outside Schengen to have access to the
essential intelligence databases SIS II and ECRIS, and the
European Commission has said that a non-member state cannot
have the same rights as a member state. Does the Minister
accept that whatever the desired outcomes, we are likely to
be less safe if we leave the EU? It is about not what
everybody wants but what is legally possible.
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In terms of London’s preparedness, the noble Lord will know
that there has been quite an uplift in the CT policing
budget. In terms of the EU, he will also know through the
various debates we have had that the UK has been a leader in
work across Europe in law enforcement and counterterrorism
data sharing. We have had the pleasurable experience of the
passage of the Data Protection Bill, during which law
enforcement and other matters were discussed. We very much
want to continue that to the extent that we have put the law
enforcement directive into UK law.
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(Lab)
Does the Minister agree that the threat is less a general one
than a specific one targeted against various minority
communities, particularly the Jewish minority? Is she
satisfied that the Government have sufficiently close
consultation with the Jewish community in this country,
particularly in London, to prevent attacks?
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The Government liaise closely with the Jewish community, in
particular with the CST. All Jewish schools have security
protective mechanisms, following some of the terrorist
threats in Europe. I commend the CST for the work it does not
only for the Jewish community but for the broader community.
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(UKIP)
My Lords, are the Government aware that the National Police
Chiefs’ Council has estimated that only 8.6% of the tip-offs
to the police and the Prevent programme come from within our
Muslim communities? What are the Government doing to
encourage those close-knit communities to do much more to
expose their violent co-religionists before they strike?
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My Lords, the Muslim community is as anxious to prevent
terrorist attacks as any other community. The Question
relates to schools. Parents in the Muslim community do not
want their children radicalised any more than we do.
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(Lab
Co-op)
My Lords, will the Minister tell the House what specific work
the Government have done with head teachers and governors
over the past year? As she said, the situation has been
unprecedented.
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It has been—the noble Lord is right to point that out. DfE is
working with the National Counter Terrorism Security Office
and has had expert advice from the counterterrorism policing
unit. As I said earlier, it is reviewing its guidance on
preparedness, security measures and vulnerability to attack.
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(Con)
My Lords, might it not be better if the noble Lord, ,
concentrated on Brexit and left this delicate issue alone?
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My Lords, I think we concentrate a lot on Brexit these days
in your Lordships’ House. The Question is important. Given
the threats of the past year, it is important that we are all
safe whether in our schools, our homes or our communities.
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(Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister accept that in the event—God
forbid—of a terrorist attack on one of our schools, my noble
friend Lord Harris’s recommendation 121 would be implemented
within the week? Is it not better to concentrate on
prevention rather than afterwards? At a time when it is
obvious that the terrorists are now moving towards soft
targets, schools are among the major soft targets that should
be protected.
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I could not disagree at all with the noble Lord when he says
that we need to make sure our schools are protected. He will
be aware, I am sure, of the Crowded Places Guidance that has
come out. This is up to governing bodies. Of course the
threat will feel different in different places, and we are
updating our guidance on assisting schools. It would be a
terrible thing if a school was subjected to a terrorist
attack.
