Asked by Lord Storey To ask Her Majesty’s Government what
steps they are taking to ensure that children and young people are
not being indoctrinated in schools. The Parliamentary
Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Agnew of
Oulton) (Con) My Lords, extremism has no place in our
society. That is why we changed the law on the...Request free trial
Asked by
-
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking
to ensure that children and young people are not being
indoctrinated in schools.
-
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Education (Lord Agnew of Oulton) (Con)
My Lords, extremism has no place in our society. That is
why we changed the law on the requirements on schools so
that they have to actively promote the fundamental British
values of democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty
and mutual respect for and tolerance of those with
different faiths and beliefs. If there are any allegations
of schools promoting ideologies or discrimination in the
classroom, we will not hesitate to take action.
-
(LD)
I hear what the Minister says, but I am sure that he will
agree that we should not allow religious extremism to
pervert our education system or narrow the minds of our
children. When unregistered schools are closed down, they
often morph into a form of home-school tuition. Is not the
time now right to make sure that home tuition is
registered?
-
of Oulton
My Lords, I note the concern of the noble Lord, , and indeed of the
noble Lord, . In our debate on Second
Reading of the Bill promoted by the noble Lord, , we made it clear
that we recognised the concerns that had led to the
introduction of the Bill in the first place. That is why we
are producing for consultation a revision of the guidance
for local authorities which clarifies that their powers in
relation to home education often go further than is
appreciated. We expect to produce the draft guidance for
consultation in the next few weeks.
-
(Lab)
My Lords, what consultations and discussions has the
Minister had with the Security Service and with
counterterrorism policing about the very high incidence of
the children of people who are subjects of interest for
counterterrorism investigations turning out to be home
schooled? Does that not suggest that there is a prima facie
case for much more substantial registration and regulation
of that sector, in particular to avoid extremist grooming
in very young children?
-
of Oulton
I note the noble Lord’s concern. We addressed many of these
points in the debate on Second Reading of the Bill promoted
by the noble Lord, . We have just
received legal advice on the powers of local authorities to
investigate children who are being home educated. It is
clear that there are more powers, but I do not think that
they have been clearly delineated and explained to local
authorities. That is the point of the guidance that we will
be issuing shortly and we will be looking for feedback from
local authorities on it.
-
(CB)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that all the main
religions should be taught in schools and that if a school
is not doing that, it is a failing school? Should not the
teaching of religion be in the context of today’s times
rather than literally in the language of outdated texts so
that they cannot be manipulated for the purposes of
extremism? Does the Minister further agree that the
teaching should focus not so much on customs and rituals
but on the underlying ethos so that it becomes self-evident
that the different religions are all pushing in the same
direction?
-
of Oulton
My Lords, as all of you will know, faith schools play a
very important part in the fabric of our state education.
We have more than 4,000 Church of England schools and 2,000
Catholic schools. All the guidance around education and
religion is about tolerance and understanding it in the
context of our own society. The recent provision for the
promotion of fundamental British values builds on that. As
noble Lords may be aware, we now have specialist Ofsted
inspection officers who look specifically for any incidence
of where religion is not taught in that context.
-
(UKIP)
My Lords, would the Minister care to comment on the Written
Answer I received on 21 June last year, which admitted that
the Government have no idea how much violent Islamic
teaching is taking place in our madrassas, nor indeed how
many of them there are; and furthermore, that the
Government do not intend to find out, or do anything about
it? Is that still government policy?
-
of Oulton
My Lords, between January 2016 and August 2017, with
additional funding from us, Ofsted identified 125
unregistered schools. It visited 38 of those, 34 of which
have now closed. Two more have closed since they were
investigated and two are still under investigation. We have
appointed I think 36 Prevent officers at the last count to
support local authorities in areas of concern to provide
advice to schools on exactly these areas. I am concerned
about this. I am the department’s Minister with
responsibility for extremism, so it is one of my main
briefs. I believe we are doing a lot, and we continue to be
alert to where more needs to be done.
-
(LD)
My Lords, could the Minister say what support the
Government can offer to head teachers who face difficulties
when they come across extremism and indoctrination in their
schools? There have been cases of intimidation and heads
being prevented from doing their jobs. Could a support
network and a hotline perhaps be set up to help them?
-
of Oulton
My Lords, in April 2015 we established a counterextremism
helpline to avoid exactly the situation that the noble
Baroness raises. Teachers can contact it for confidential
advice. We have had more than 450 uses of this helpline
from educationists and other members of the public.
-
(Con)
My Lords, could the noble Lord give the House some
statistics relating to the number of children who have been
referred under the Prevent strand of the counterterrorism
strategy from schools? Could he give details of how many
have been referred and how many were then followed up with
further action? Could he also give details of how many were
within the last 12 months and how many within the 12 months
before that? Could he also break it down between religious
extremism and far-right extremism?
-
of Oulton
My Lords, unfortunately I do not have all that information
to hand, but I will of course write to my noble friend.
-
(Lab)
My Lords, when schools close, is there any attempt by the
Government to follow up where the students go to see
whether they are simply going to other schools that reopen
and teach in the same way?
-
of Oulton
My Lords, we introduced some statutory changes to
requirements on schools quite recently. It is now a
requirement that a school notify the local authority of
what are called deletions from the register, whether the
parent has formally notified the school of the destination
of the child or not. Local authorities are made aware of
closing schools in those situations.
-
(Lab)
My Lords, I remind the House that my wife is a Prevent
adviser on further education. Will the noble Lord take the
opportunity to commend the head of Ofsted for her very
rigorous action in the last few months? At times the head
of Ofsted might have welcomed more ministerial support for
what she is doing, taking up the point made by the noble
Baroness. I understand that Ofsted feels that to tackle the
problems effectively it needs more powers. In the light of
his response on home education, will the Minister look at
whether legislative changes need to be made to give the
chief inspector more authority?
-
of Oulton
My Lords, all these areas are always under consideration. I
am meeting the chief inspector later this week and we have it
as an agenda item.
-
(CB)
My Lords, is it only Islam that is being reviewed as
extremist or is there a concern that some other religions
might also be extremist and, if so, which religion other than
Islam is defined as extremist?
-
of Oulton
My Lords, we need to discern between extremism that
indoctrinates for hatred and violence and those very
conservative faiths that teach a very narrow curriculum; and,
indeed, that is part of the job of the Prevent officers. It
is not about pursuing one particular religion but about
ensuring, as the noble Lord said earlier, that religion is
taught in a tolerant way that is relevant to our society.
|
