Asked by Baroness Burt of Solihull To ask Her Majesty’s
Government what plans they have to equalise statutory pay received
for shared parental leave by people of any gender. The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business,
Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con) My Lords,
shared parental leave and pay are provided to...Request free trial
Asked by
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to
equalise statutory pay received for shared parental leave
by people of any gender.
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley)
(Con)
My Lords, shared parental leave and pay are provided to
enable working couples to share childcare responsibility in
the first year. The scheme was introduced by the coalition
Government for the parents of children who are due or
placed for adoption from April 2015. We will evaluate its
effectiveness this year.
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(LD)
I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. The shared
parental leave rights, which were introduced under the
coalition Government, as the Minister says, allow fathers
to switch childcare duties with the mother during that
first year. However, fathers get the basic maternity pay
but, with only a few notable exceptions, not the enhanced
maternity pay that the mother is entitled to.
Unsurprisingly, take-up by fathers has been less than 1%.
Will the Minister have a look at this, especially in light
of the court case, Snell v Network Rail? Dads are being
discriminated against, and they deserve equal rights too.
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My Lords, in the main, the pay and leave are both set at
the same rate. Obviously, mothers get a slightly higher
rate in that they are in receipt of statutory maternity pay
for the first six weeks at that higher rate.
Understandably, fathers, not being mothers, are not
eligible for that SMP. But other than that, the leave and
the pay are equal for all. As I said, we will evaluate the
scheme later this year and come to conclusions. As regards
the take-up rate, we are not entirely sure exactly what it
is but we think it is broadly in line with the estimates
that were made at the time of its introduction.
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(Lab)
My Lords, it seems that the take-up rate is minuscule. When
the Government evaluate the scheme, will they take note of
all the growing cross-national evidence which shows that
the only way significantly to increase fathers’ take-up of
parental leave is through an independent right to a
non-transferable fathers’ leave, paid at a decent rate, as
recommended by, for example, the Women and Equalities
Committee? This is the way to change both culture and
behaviour around shared childcare.
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My Lords, as I said, the take-up rate is on the low side;
we do not know the precise figures but we reckon that they
are broadly in line with the original estimates. Again, as
I said, we will evaluate—that is what we promised to do,
and we will do it this year. I do not think that the noble
Baroness would expect me, in advance of that evaluation, to
come to any conclusions about what might be the best way to
improve that take-up rate.
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(Con)
Will the Minister consider putting pressure on some of the
European Union member state embassies in London? Our
legislation, which is good and generous for maternity and
paternity leave, is not replicated by those embassies, and
it seems a little peculiar.
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My Lords, I am sure that staff in all the embassies in
London will take note of what my noble friend has said.
This is good legislation. We want it to succeed and to have
its effect, but we also want to evaluate how it works and
to see how it can be improved. That is what we will do
later this year, and I am sure that our colleagues in the
European Union will take note of any changes that we make.
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(Lab)
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister does want it to
succeed. What would success look like?
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My Lords, I think that success would look like fathers and
mothers being able to take the appropriate leave with the
appropriate support so that they could manage those early
weeks and months with a newborn child and properly adapt
their lives. That is what we are trying to do with the
original proposals for shared parental pay and leave, and
that is why we want to improve them.
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(Lab)
Does the Minister recall that, when parental leave was
first put on the agenda in Brussels, his party was very
much opposed to it? It has been demonstrated in the last 15
years that this is a very useful and progressive part of
our industrial system but that, as with other things agreed
on a common basis across Europe—from pro rata to different
types of atypical workers, as well as the gender
question—it needs fairly strict rules to make it effective.
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My Lords, I do not recall what the noble Lord asks me to
recall but I can say that this scheme was introduced by
this Government—or, rather, by the previous, coalition
Government. It is working reasonably well but with a very
low take-up. I said in earlier answers that we obviously
want to look at that to see whether it can be improved so
that it can benefit more people and more couples.
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(LD)
My Lords, until the Government get to grips with shared
parental leave, perhaps they can take a look at the equal
pay situation between men and women, which is still
woefully inadequate. Will the Minister have a look at, say,
Iceland, which is also led by a female Prime Minister? She
has enshrined in law equal pay for men and women in the
public and private sectors.
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My Lords, the noble Baroness is going slightly wider than the
original Question on the Order Paper, which relates to shared
parental leave. However, I am very happy to say that, like
Iceland, we have a female Prime Minister, and long may that
continue.
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(Lab)
What would the Minister see as a successful take-up rate for
males? Would it be 50%, 60%, 70% or 80%? Can he give an
estimate of what the government policy is intended to
deliver?
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No, my Lords. I have made it quite clear that we want to
evaluate the system and, as I said in answer to one of the
noble Lord’s colleagues, to see how it can benefit as many
people as possible. It is benefiting some at the moment.
Take-up is relatively low but broadly in line with what we
originally estimated it to be. We want to see whether that
can be improved so that more can benefit from it, but
obviously we also want to take into account the costs to the
taxpayer involved in any changes to the scheme.
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