Asked by Lord Dykes To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether
they have had any discussions with the European Commission about
its proposals for the future of the European Union. The Minister of
State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan)
(Con) My Lords, until exit negotiations are concluded, the UK
remains a full member of the...Request free trial
Asked by
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have had any
discussions with the European Commission about its
proposals for the future of the European Union.
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The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European
Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)
My Lords, until exit negotiations are concluded, the UK
remains a full member of the European Union, and all the
rights and obligations of EU membership remain in force.
During this period, the Government will also continue to
negotiate, implement and apply EU legislation. We have been
engaged in discussions about the future of Europe,
including through our input into the Commission work
programme 2018, through conversations at COREPER and at the
recent General Affairs Council in October.
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(CB)
I thank the Minister for that helpful Answer. Bearing in
mind that paragraphs 9 and 10 of the Prime Minister’s
Florence speech were a massive paean of praise for the
Commission and the European Union sovereign member states’
future plans for modernisation and development, why do we
not join in that excitement and work with them on a
long-term basis, not least because Brexit is getting more
and more problematical?
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Because we will not be a member in the long term, my Lords.
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(Lab)
My Lords, would it not be somewhat impertinent of the
Government to seek to influence an organisation from which
they have pledged to withdraw their membership?
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Yes. It is in our interests for the EU to do well and to
succeed, but obviously it would be wrong of us to try to
influence where its members might want to take the
organisation in the future when we are no longer a member.
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(Con)
My Lords, under Article 50, we will leave the European
Union on 29 March 2019. Does my noble friend share my worry
that sometimes, the noble Lord, , tends to have a
temporary lapse of memory about that?
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I am sure that the noble Lord noticed that we had a
referendum on the subject.
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(LD)
My Lords, can the Minister assure us that, as the EU
reforms and changes, the Government will ensure that the
United Kingdom plays to its strengths in Europe, such as in
the single market, of which Mrs Thatcher was the architect,
and in justice, security and defence, rather than running
away from these major assets that we contribute to the EU?
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On the subject of defence and security, we have proposed a
bold new strategic partnership with the EU, including a
comprehensive agreement on security, law enforcement and
criminal justice co-operation.
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(Lab)
My Lords, regarding the debate on the future of Europe, has
the noble Lord read the speech that President Macron of
France made at Sciences Po in September, in which he
proposed lots of interesting ideas for future co-operation
on climate change, Africa, migration, technology and the
development of defence procurement? Does he think that the
Government might take on board some of those ideas in
drawing up the framework for future co-operation and the
future relationship, which they are required to do under
Article 50?
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I have seen President Macron’s speech. He made some
interesting proposals on how the EU should develop. I am
sure that we will want to look closely at those and that we
will consider them alongside contributions from leaders of
other member states.
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(UKIP)
My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord to his new position and
ask him to forgive me if I ask a question that I have asked
the Government many times without getting a satisfactory
answer. What is now the point of the European Union? If our
departure hastened its demise, would that not be good for
Europe’s democracies, which could collaborate and trade
freely together without its malign, expensive and
destructive self-interest?
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I think that what happens to the European Union after we
leave is a matter for the remaining member states to
determine.
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(PC)
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that, if it appears
over the coming months that the Government will fail to get
anything but the hardest of hard Brexits, and if in the
meantime these ideas about the future of Europe develop,
the Government still have the option to withdraw their
Article 50 application?
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My Lords, we had a referendum: both Houses of Parliament
voted for the triggering of Article 50. We are leaving the
European Union in March 2019.
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(CB)
My Lords, the Minister has given three replies now which
imply that from the day we leave the European Union, we shall
not have the slightest interest in how it develops or think
it proper to express our views on how it develops. I think
his successor on those Benches may find that hard to swallow.
Could he reconsider what he has been saying? I do not think
that we no longer have any interest in the future of
Europe—even when we have left.
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My Lords, I do not think I said that. Of course we have an
interest in co-operation with our European partners, and that
will include an interest in how the EU develops. As I have
said, we will want to take forward a close and constructive
partnership, including on security and defence matters, so of
course we will have an interest in how it proceeds.
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(Con)
Has my noble friend noticed that the referendum to which he
referred was established by Parliament very clearly as an
advisory referendum? Should that not be something we respect
before we consider any further action?
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The referendum took place. The Government spent, I think, £9
million on sending round pamphlets saying that we would
respect the outcome of that vote, and that is what we are
doing.
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of Kentish Town
(Lab)
My Lords, The Times reported that Mr Gove was joining the
Brexit “war cabinet”. I trust that is not the Government’s
phrase—we are not at war. Does the Minister agree that we
should be talking to our European friends about a close,
perhaps a special relationship with the EU after March 2019,
and not about being at war with them?
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I agree totally with the noble Baroness. I am sure she is not
asking me to comment on everything that the media and the
press say—we would be here for a long time if we were to do
that. Yes, I agree with the points she has made.
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(Lab)
Will the Minister accept, as his predecessor accepted, that
the normal standard in treaty negotiations is that nothing is
agreed until everything is agreed? Will he confirm that
today, and confirm that it is on the basis of everything
being agreed that this House, like the rest of Parliament,
will have a vote on what the future relationship should be?
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Yes, I can confirm that to the noble Lord: nothing is agreed
until everything is agreed. That is a standard principle of
European negotiations I have taken part in, as many of us in
this House have done. We are also committed to a meaningful
vote at the conclusion of those negotiations.
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