Syria and North Korea Next Share this debate 18 April
2017 Volume 624 4.01 pm The Secretary of State for Foreign
and Commonwealth Affairs (Boris Johnson) Share this
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18 April 2017
Volume 624
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With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like to begin
by paying tribute to the Britons who were killed in
tragic circumstances in Stockholm and Jerusalem.
Chris Bevington was among four people who died in
Sweden when a truck was driven into helpless
pedestrians on 7 April. Hannah Bladon was stabbed
to death in Jerusalem on Good Friday in a senseless
attack. Our thoughts and prayers are with their
families.
I wish to update the House on two of the most
significant foreign policy events of the last
fortnight, namely the situations in Syria and North
Korea. These disparate challenges encompass one
common theme. In each case, hereditary dictators
presiding over cruel tyrannies have challenged the
essential rules that underpin our world peace. The
United States has responded with strength and
resolve, and in accordance with its traditional
role as the guarantor of the rules-based system. In
both cases, the United States has acted with the
full support of the British Government.
Turning first to Syria, at 6.39 am on 4 April there
was a chemical weapons attack on the town of Khan
Sheikhoun in rebel-held Idlib province. The House
will recall the horrifying aftermath: men, women
and children convulsed in agony, some foaming at
the mouth, as their bodies were poisoned by nerve
gas. Rescue workers tried desperately to
decontaminate the casualties. We saw children with
oxygen masks clamped to their faces. Even by the
standards of a civil war that has claimed more than
400,000 lives, this was among the most shocking
incidents.
I want to repeat for the benefit of the House
exactly what we know about the attack on Khan
Sheikhoun, because there has been a concerted
attempt to obscure the facts. We know beyond doubt
that two Sukhoi-22 aircraft took off from Shayrat
airfield, where we know chemical weapons are
stored. We know that they were overhead at 6.39 am
when, according to all eyewitness accounts, the
attack took place. We know from shell fragments in
the crater that sarin had not only been used, but
that it was sarin carrying the specific chemical
signature of sarin used by the Assad regime. Given
that samples from the victims show conclusively
that they had been exposed to sarin gas, there is
only one conclusion to be reached: that the Assad
regime almost certainly gassed its own people, in
breach of international law and the rules of war.
That shows the emptiness of the agreement—reached
in 2013 and guaranteed by Russia—that was supposed
to rid Syria of chemical weapons once and for all,
and, I am afraid, exposes the misjudgment of those
who regarded that deal as a substitute for resolute
action.
The attack on Khan Sheikhoun is already the subject
of an international inquiry by the Organisation for
the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. Thanks in
large measure to UK diplomacy, the United Nations
now has a joint investigative mechanism with a
mandate to identify any party responsible for
chemical attacks in Syria, and I trust that it will
report as soon as possible. The House should bear
in mind, however, that UN investigators have
already found the Assad regime guilty of using
poison gas on three separate occasions in 2014 and
2015.
Some Members have suggested that we arraign Assad
before the International Criminal Court. I must say
to them that the only way of bringing Syria before
the ICC would be through a referral from the
Security Council, and we tried that option in
2014, only to be thwarted by the vetoes of Russia
and China. Sadly, Russia’s response to the attack
on Khan Sheikhoun has been to try to protect Assad
yet again. On 12 April, it cast its eighth veto on
behalf of Assad in the Security Council, blocking a
resolution that would have demanded the regime’s
co-operation with the international investigation.
The day after the atrocity I spoke to Secretary of
State Tillerson, and it became clear that the
United States was considering a military response.
In the early hours of 7 April, the US did indeed
take action, firing 59 cruise missiles at the
military air base from which the gas attack is
believed to have been launched. We were given
advance notice of the operation, but at no stage
did the US Administration ask for our military
help; they asked only for political support.
Advance warning was given to Russian military
personnel, who were co-located with the Syrian air
force at the same base, to minimise the risk of
casualties.
The Government believe that the US action was a
necessary, appropriate and justified response to an
awful crime. As many as 20 Syrian military aircraft
are believed to have been destroyed, and, as the
House will know, Assad’s air force has been bombing
civilians day after day for most of the past six
years. The destruction of some of those strike
aircraft will in itself save some lives, but still
more important, I think, is President Trump’s
emphatic message that the era during which Assad’s
barbarism met with passivity and inaction has
finally come to an end. America’s determined
response creates an opportunity to break the
deadlock and pave the way for a political
settlement of Syria’s tragedy, but that will happen
only if Russia is prepared to bring Assad to the
negotiating table and begin a transition to a new
Government who will represent the sole chance of
peace in Syria. After the chemical attack and the
American strike, the priority was for Secretary
Tillerson to convey that message to Russia with the
backing of as many countries as possible. The
combined weight of the G7, and like-minded
countries in the region, unanimously supported the
US military action as a “carefully calibrated”
response to a “war crime”, and mandated Tillerson
to go to Russia and urge the Russians to
“promote a real and genuine political process in
Syria”.
I want to stress that we in the UK have no
intention of dislodging Russian interests in Syria;
on the contrary, we recognise Russia’s long
connection with that country and the national
interests at stake. But Russia’s position in Syria
does not depend on Assad. The unmistakable lesson
of six years of bloodshed is that Assad cannot
deliver what his people—and the wider world—so
desperately need, namely, a peaceful and united
Syria. Therefore, I hope I have the support of
everyone in this House when I call on the Russians
to end their blind support for Assad, stop the gas
attacks and the barrel bombs, allow the delivery of
aid to those who need it, deliver a real ceasefire
and begin the political process that will include a
transition away from Assad.
That was the message that Secretary Tillerson
conveyed to Putin and to Sergei Lavrov on 12 April.
We will do our utmost in the UK to hold accountable
anyone found responsible for that gas attack, and
we will work with our American
counterparts to create the conditions for Russia to
work with us and to escape its entanglement with
the toxic Assad regime, which poisons Russia’s
international reputation just as surely as it
poisons its own people.
I turn now to North Korea. Last weekend’s events
provided further proof of the threat that that
country poses to international peace and security.
On Saturday, North Korea paraded an arsenal of
ballistic missiles in front of carefully regimented
crowds. Only 24 hours later, the regime tested
another missile, although this time the launch
failed. Last year alone, North Korea tested two
nuclear bombs and 24 missiles. I remind Members
that all those tests break a series of UN
resolutions dating back to 2006, when resolution
1695 was passed unanimously by the Security
Council, yet on Monday the Pyongyang regime
threatened further missile tests on a
“weekly, monthly and yearly basis”.
The regime is now developing intercontinental
ballistic missiles, which would be capable of
delivering a nuclear strike on the mainland United
States. These weapons have not yet been fully
tested, but no one can be complacent about the
potential threat they pose.
Yesterday, I spoke to my Chinese counterpart, Wang
Yi, and I urged him to use Beijing’s unique
influence to restrain North Korea and to allow a
peaceful resolution of this crisis. By suspending
its coal imports from North Korea, China has given
a welcome signal of its willingness to exert
pressure on the regime. Later this month, I shall
attend a special meeting of the Security Council on
North Korea.
All hopes for progress rest on international
co-operation —especially between China and the
US—and the verifiable disarmament of North Korea’s
nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles. The crises
in Syria and North Korea represent a challenge to
the law-based liberal international order in which
this country believes. Britain’s role is to stand
alongside the United States and our allies as we
confront those threats. In that effort, we will not
tire. I commend this statement to the House.
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I thank the Foreign Secretary for advance sight of
his statement and join him in sending my
condolences to the families of Chris Bevington and
Hannah Bladon.
Obviously, the Foreign Secretary’s statement is
somewhat overshadowed by another announcement
today, but the issues at hand here are far more
important for the future of our world than the
Prime Minister’s cynical short-term manoeuvres. She
talked about the need for leadership and stability,
yet is happy to plunge the country into six weeks
of uncertainty exactly at the time Britain needs to
provide stable global leadership on issues such as
Syria and North Korea. However, we should not be
surprised, because on those and other global crises
the Conservative party is abdicating any effective
leadership role for Britain.
I turn to Syria. We were all appalled by the
dreadful attacks on civilians witnessed during the
Easter recess. Two weeks ago, there was the
horrifying chemical attack on Khan Sheikhoun,
killing dozens of ordinary villagers and injuring
many hundreds more. Just two days ago—I was rather
surprised that the Foreign Secretary did not see
fit to mention this—there was the suicide bombing
of so-called pro-regime evacuees in Rashidin, with
dozens of children among those who were
killed. They were lured to their deaths by the
promise of free crisps—a tragic reminder that in
this conflict Bashar al-Assad does not hold a
monopoly when it comes to horrific atrocities
against innocent civilians, including children.
We need a peaceful settlement in Syria now more
than ever. Indeed, last week the Foreign Secretary
said that his priority was to
“build co-ordinated international support for a
ceasefire…and an intensified political process”,
and I agree with him. So why, rather than working
for co-ordinated international action properly to
investigate, punish and prevent the use of chemical
weapons, is the Foreign Secretary instead
threatening more unilateral airstrikes by the US
against the Assad regime? Why, rather than engaging
in that peace process, did he instead cancel his
proposed talks in Moscow, and in the process so
comprehensively alienate the Putin Government that
they have refused to talk to Britain in future? And
why, rather than ensuring that the G7 spoke with
one strong voice on Syria last week, did he instead
present it with a half-baked, quickly rebuffed
proposal for sanctions, without doing any
preparatory work to win the support that was
needed?
The Foreign Secretary ended last week disowned by
Downing Street, ignored by Russia, and humiliated
by the G7. The only straw he can cling on to, we
presume, is this: that the United States State
Department is still telling him what to say and do,
and which countries he is allowed to visit. To that
end, may I ask a final question on Syria? Based on
his close relationship with the Trump
Administration, can he clarify exactly what their
strategy now is?
Turning briefly to North Korea, the Foreign
Secretary rightly condemns the ongoing nuclear
missile programmes being pursued by Kim Jong-un’s
regime. I hope he will agree that, like Syria, this
a crisis that can be resolved only through
co-ordinated international action, through the
de-escalation of tensions and, ultimately, through
negotiations. So can he assure us that Britain will
argue against any unilateral military action taken
by the United States, and instead urgently back
China’s call for a resumption of the six-party
talks? When it comes to North Korea, the world
needs statesmanship, not brinkmanship. We cannot
afford blind loyalty to the Trump Administration if
they are leading us down the path to war.
Peace in Syria and North Korea and our relationship
with the Trump Administration are vital issues for
the future of Britain and the world, and, as much
as the Prime Minister would like the coming
election simply to be about Brexit, we must ensure
that these and other international concerns are not
forgotten.
To that end, my final question for the Foreign
Secretary is this: will he commit to join me in a
televised debate between all the parties on foreign
policy—no ifs, no buts? I am ready to say yes now,
so will he commit today to do likewise: announce
the first election debate and put his party’s
promise of stable leadership on the line?
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I am obviously disappointed that the shadow Foreign
Secretary should choose to intrude into this very
important consideration relatively separate issues
of domestic political policy: we are trying to
explain the position of the UK, and indeed the
west, towards the Assad regime. And, by the way, we
are having a televised debate now in case she had
not noticed, and we should continue in that way.
To answer the right hon. Lady’s serious point, we
are engaged in trying to use the opportunity
provided by American action to drive forward the
political process. It is not easy, and I think in
all honesty that she should reflect on her
approach, because what we are trying to do requires
a great degree of cross-party support. We want the
Russians to face up to the real option before them.
If they continue to back Assad, they will be
backing a regime that—I hope Members heard what I
said about the use of chemical weapons—has been
proved beyond a shadow of doubt to have used
chemical weapons that are banned under
international law. I would like the Russians to
accept that there is a deal. That could be that
they have an improvement in their relations with
the Americans, and work together with the rest of
us to tackle the scourge of Daesh. In return, the
Russians need to understand that they need to make
a serious commitment to a political process. At the
moment, they are not doing that. They need to make
a proper commitment to a ceasefire, and at the
moment they are not making that commitment. They
need to stop their client using chemical weapons.
They said that they would do that in 2013. Rather
than simply parroting the lines of the Kremlin, the
right hon. Lady should support the collective
action of the west, not just the G7 but the
like-minded countries—
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The right hon. Lady has said, for instance, that
the west is divided in its attitude towards
sanctions. Let us be absolutely clear that all we
are trying to do is to follow where the evidential
trail
leads—[Interruption.] If
the OPCW finds that members of the Syrian armed
forces have been responsible for that attack, I
hope she will agree that they should face
sanctions. If she were to oppose that, I would find
it absolutely extraordinary. The United States has
moved to impose sanctions on a further 300 people,
and there has been a large measure of support from
all western countries for doing exactly that.
Furthermore, it seems unclear from the right hon.
Lady’s account whether she supports the American
action at all. I wonder whether she could enlighten
the House as to whether she is in favour of what
the Americans did. For the first time in five
years, the Trump White House has shown that the
west is not prepared to sit by and watch while
people are gassed with weapons that should have
been banned—
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Order. We appreciate the Foreign Secretary’s
inimitable rhetorical style, but I fear that the
right hon. Lady, by moving as though to intervene,
supposes that she is taking part in a debate. Let
us await the televised debate, if it is to happen.
At this point, the Foreign Secretary can content
himself with responding to questions.
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I am grateful, Mr Speaker.
It was far from clear to me, in listening to the
right hon. Lady’s response, whether she actually
supports what the United States has done. I would
like some elucidation on that. As I have said, for
the first time in five years, that action has shown
that the west is willing to stand up to the use of
these vile weapons. This has given us a
political opportunity that we have hitherto not
had, and I think that her best bet would be to
support this Government and the efforts of western
countries in trying to drive that forward and get
the Russians to deliver a genuine political
solution—[Interruption.]
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Order. I say to the right hon. Member for Islington
South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) that all
sorts of things might be judged by some people to
be intolerable, but I am afraid that what is above
all intolerable is to depart from the normal
process. She is a person of very considerable
intellect and ingenuity. Doubtless, through her
colleagues—and possibly subsequent to the
statement—she can find ways of giving expression to
her concern, but at this point if she could assume
a Zen-like calm, the House would be the beneficiary
of that.
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It is obviously right that a diplomatic joint
approach in Syria is more important than unilateral
action. Will the Foreign Secretary therefore commit
to continuing to work closely with our American
allies and other partners and friends to bring an
end to this barbaric slaughter in Syria?
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I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his
question. That is exactly what we are engaged in
doing. I do not pretend to the House that it will
be easy. We have been here before; we have seen the
whole Kerry-Lavrov rigmarole that went on for
months and months. However, this is an opportunity
for Russia to recognise that it is supporting a
regime that deserves the odium of the entire world.
That is costing Russia friends and support around
the world, but it now has a chance to go for a
different approach and that is what we are
collectively urging it to do.
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I thank the Foreign Secretary for advance sight of
his statement and I associate Scottish National
party Members with his opening remarks, in which he
paid tribute to those who lost their lives in
Jerusalem and Stockholm. Our thoughts are with
their families.
The international community must respond to what
can only be described as the monstrous actions of
the Assad regime. There should be an international
investigation sponsored by the Security Council. If
that is blocked, such an investigation should be
ordered by the General Assembly of the United
Nations. The mechanisms exist to enable that to
happen, and the UK Government must lead the way.
The findings should be taken to the International
Criminal Court and those responsible should be
arraigned and subjected to the force of
international law.
The US air strikes on Shayrat airfield are a
demonstration of the unpredictability of the Trump
Administration, which many fear will only cause
further escalation of the conflict. In their rush
to congratulate that Administration on their recent
strike, did the UK Government consider its
repercussions? Until now, coalition aircraft have
operated with relative freedom against Daesh in
eastern Syria. Now, Russia has suspended the
US-Russia air operations accord, and the Assad
regime will likely activate its extensive air
defences. The skies above Syria will
therefore be much more dangerous for UK pilots,
while Syrian civilians on the ground will suffer
even more.
We in the SNP have questioned the UK Government’s
policy on airstrikes from the very beginning, but
now we must have answers. What changes will have to
be made to adapt to the changing situation, and how
will that affect the coalition aerial campaign
against Daesh? UK jets and bombs will not bring
peace in Syria. We call on the UK Government to
reconsider their tactics and urgently present a
revised military strategy in Parliament. Although
dialogue aimed at ending the conflict is welcome,
above all we want hostilities to cease and
civilians to receive the basic food, shelter and
medical care that they so badly need.
Finally, on North Korea, we urge all parties to
lower tensions and use diplomatic means to work
through disagreements. This is yet more evidence of
the need to implement multilateral disarmament and
put an end to the existence of weapons of mass
destruction in general, and nuclear weapons in
particular.
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The hon. Lady will know that the UK is already the
second biggest donor of humanitarian aid to the
region, so we have a record that we can be proud
of. I return to what she had to say about the
American strike. I am looking at faces that are
familiar from previous statements on Syria; month
after month I have come here to update the House on
how that tragedy is unfolding, and I see people who
have taken a passionate interest in this subject
and have called repeatedly for us to do more.
Finally, the United States has taken what we
believe to be condign action—action that I think is
entirely appropriate—but somehow it fails to find
favour with the hon. Lady.
I think that what has happened is a good thing, but
we should not overstate its importance from a
military point of view. We have to recognise that
this is a political opportunity, and it is an
opportunity for the Russians to recognise the
manner of regime that they are propping up. That is
the message that we need to get over loud and
clear, and unanimously.
As for North Korea, the hon. Lady makes a good
point about the need to get rid of nuclear weapons.
I think it would be foolish—I hope that she
agrees—for the United States even to begin to think
of getting rid of its nuclear weapons before we
have a denuclearised North Korea.
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I thank the Foreign Secretary for the detailed
evidence he has presented to the House about the
responsibility for the nerve agent attack in Syria.
I commend him for giving the House that detail and,
in doing so, I invite him to depersonalise his
assessment of the Syrian regime simply around the
personality of its President. We already have in
place a mechanism by which that President will be
held to account in future by the Syrian people if
he wishes to seek their views under the
International Syria Support Group conclusions of
November 2015. That process has already been agreed
on by 20 nations, and we should be relying on that
and not using rhetoric that might make it more
difficult to get into that process.
Finally, if I may ask my right hon. Friend about
North Korea, I invite him to put pressure on the
United States to try to dial down the public
rhetoric. In some ways, North Korea is like an
attention-seeking child who happens to
belong to someone else—in this case, China. While
the United States has proper responsibilities to
the other nations in the area about their security,
ratcheting up the rhetoric with North Korea is
probably the wrong way of publicly dealing with it.
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I entirely agree with my hon. Friend that we should
be clear that our quarrel is not only with Bashar
al-Assad, but with others in his regime. It will be
possible to sketch out a route map to show how we
can keep the institutions of Syrian government and
yet get rid of the most murderous elements of the
regime. We need to be getting that idea across
clearly in the next weeks and months.
On North Korea, I am sure that my hon. Friend’s
words on the need to avoid ratcheting up the
rhetoric are wise—he speaks from experience—but I
believe that the key lies mainly with China in this
arena. It is very much in the interests of the
Chinese and the Russians, who share a border with
North Korea, to rein in Kim Jong-un and persuade
him to abandon what I think is a path of
self-destruction.
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In the light of the American Vice-President’s
current visit to the region to consult, one hopes,
South Korea and Japan, among others, on the most
effective way of containing North Korea’s nuclear
ambitions, and reflecting on the Foreign
Secretary’s own experience at the recent G7 summit,
does he think that there is the potential for
further economic sanctions directed at Pyongyang?
Does he think that China would fully support such a
step?
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The crucial thing is for the Chinese and others to
implement the current sanctions and to allow them
to have a full economic impact. As the right hon.
Gentleman may know, there has been some doubt in
recent months about the full application of those
sanctions. The people of North Korea are living in
absolute misery, penury and servitude. The trouble
is that they can probably continue to live in that
state for a long time to come, unless their
Government see sense. We must work with the Chinese
to persuade them.
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Given the fact that the Chinese, in a most welcome
manner but rather surprisingly, did support
sanctions at the UN in 2013, the chances are that
they will come to the UN Security Council meeting
at the end of this month in a positive frame of
mind. The Foreign Secretary is right that Russia
shares a small border with the Democratic People’s
Republic of Korea. It is also a permanent member of
the UN Security Council and is party to the
six-party talks. In addition to having good
discussions with his opposite number Wang Yi in
China, will my right hon. Friend commit to talk to
Sergey Lavrov and point out that this is another
chance for Russia to rehabilitate its international
reputation, which is extremely tarnished at the
moment?
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My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. He has
great expertise in this matter. It is perfectly
true that the economic relationship is
overwhelmingly between China and North Korea, but,
as he says, Russia certainly has a role. Russia
should not be permitted to hide endlessly behind
China’s skirts, a point that Rex Tillerson made in
Moscow on 12 April.
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In 1988, I took a cross-party group from this House
to see some of the survivors of the Halabja attack.
There was lot of discussion about who was
responsible, and people such as Professor Alastair
Hay went out to Halabja and brought back soil
samples and evidence. I wonder whether experts in
the UK are again being used to find out who
perpetrated this terrible carnage and suffering on
the Syrian people. Has the Foreign Secretary talked
to such people, who could be of help again due to
their experience in dealing with chemical weapons?
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I well remember the right hon. Lady’s efforts in
respect of Halabja, and she played a big part in
hardening my heart against Saddam Hussein many
years ago. She campaigned on the matter with great
effect, and rightly so.
What we are doing today is supporting the OPCW’s
expert fact-finding mission, and I have sketched
out all we know about what happened on the morning
of 4 April—the best evidence that we have so
far—and I hope the House will believe that the
evidence is very persuasive indeed. The
fact-finding mission will now draw on a variety of
sources, including samples from the victims,
environmental samples, munition fragments, footage
of the incident and its aftermath, and interviews
with survivors, people who were first on the scene,
medics and eye witnesses. The mission will be able
to draw on signals intelligence, flight tracking,
data analysis, meteorological information and other
information that will be shared by us and other
countries concerned.
Our experience is that such fact-finding missions
are able to reach conclusions in very difficult
circumstances and, going back to the point I made
to the right hon. Member for Islington South and
Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), we need such
information to create the evidential trail to the
individuals responsible. There is good evidence
already, and we will use what we have, when and
where possible, not only to impose sanctions but to
pursue prosecutions for war crimes.
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My right hon. Friend says that Russia’s position in
Syria does not depend on Assad but that the Assad
regime’s position in Syria is wholly dependent on
Russia, and that Russia must accept its
responsibility for the attack. If Russia’s
reputation is to be rehabilitated, the first
important step will be to help ease the Assad
regime out of Syria.
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I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend. It is
crucial to understand that the Russians, as they
have freely admitted in the past, do not have any
deep spiritual affinity with Bashar al-Assad. They
do not love him but are wedded to him for the time
being. I believe that, in the long term, there can
be no future for Syria with Bashar al-Assad in
power, and we have to find a way forward. What we
want to do now is to reach out to the Russians, to
get them to understand that point and to commit to
a serious political process, and we should not
abandon that goal.
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I do not regret any of my votes opposing military
intervention in Syria, because at various times we
were asked to oppose one side or the other, but if
there had been no military retaliation
in response to the chemical attack, is there not a
case that it would have encouraged Assad to do it
again?
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The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and it is
why we should acknowledge that the United States
has changed the terms of trade in Syria. It is now
up to us to make the most of this opportunity to
get political change.
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I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and
for the tone with which he made it. One of the
purposes of the American action the other day was,
as it would have been in 2013, to demonstrate to
President Assad that he cannot militarily subjugate
all his people and, therefore, to give force to
negotiations in which he will actually have to
concede something. The difficult question is this:
had the US Secretary of State asked my right hon.
Friend for some sort of support that evening, what
would have been his answer? Do he and the
Government consider themselves bound by the
decision of the House in August 2013 and ’s
statement afterwards? If so, does he intend to
return to the House to discuss the matter further?
If not, what might the United Kingdom be able to do
to demonstrate its force and resolve against such
actions as those we saw from President Assad the
other week?
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As my right hon. Friend knows and as I said, we
were not asked for specific support, but it is my
belief—I stress that no such decision has yet been
taken—that were such a request to be made in future
and were it to be a reasonable request in pursuit
of similar objectives, it would be very difficult
for the United Kingdom to say no.
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Hannah Bladon was a student at Birmingham
University, and our thoughts and prayers are with
her, her family and her friends. As a result of her
having been stabbed to death in Jerusalem, has the
Foreign Office changed any of its travel advice?
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I repeat my condolences to the family of Miss
Bladon. All I can say is that although we are
offering consular assistance to her family, at the
moment we are not changing our general advice about
travel to Israel.
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Given the vile propaganda role of Asma al-Assad in
propping up a murderous and barbaric war criminal,
will the Foreign Secretary update the House as to
what discussions he has had with the Home Secretary
so that we can send a very clear message that such
a role is incompatible with British citizenship?
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We do not discuss individual citizenship cases, as
I am sure my hon. Friend knows, although I
understand the feelings she is expressing. What I
can tell her is that Asma al-Assad, in common with
her husband, is certainly on the sanctions list.
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The Foreign Secretary’s original statement was
comprehensive and measured, but it had one
significant omission—there was no
mention of Turkey. There are 3 million Syrian
refugees in Turkey and, as he knows, the Turkish
Government and President Erdogan have called for a
no-fly zone. Others, including myself, have called
for a no-fly zone over Idlib. What discussions are
ongoing about how to protect civilians in Syria,
not just from chemical weapons, but from barrel
bombs?
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The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point and he
is right to draw attention to the cardinal role of
Turkey in this whole crisis. As he knows, Turkey
has borne the brunt of the huge tide of refugees,
and I agree very much with what he is saying about
no-fly zones, which are strongly supported by Rex
Tillerson and the US. However, they cannot be
delivered without a ceasefire, which is why I
return to this challenge we are making to the
Russians: it is up to them not just to stop the
barrel bombs that the hon. Gentleman mentions, but
to deliver a real ceasefire.
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The Foreign Secretary rightly dealt at length with
the chemical attack, but I was surprised he did not
take the opportunity to condemn also the appalling
attack on Shi’a civilians in which 126 were killed,
including 68 children, when fleeing from Foah and
Kefraya. This highlights the problem faced by
Alawites, Shi’a and Christians in Syria: however
much they detest Assad, as we all do, they rely on
him to protect them. For too long in this House, we
have tried to engage in regime change—in removing
Saddam, Gaddafi and now Assad. We should
concentrate on humanitarian work and on protecting
minorities in the middle east.
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I fully appreciate the point my hon. Friend makes
and he is perfectly right when he says that our
thoughts should equally be with the 126 victims of
that appalling attack, many of whom were children,
as the right hon. Member for Islington South and
Finsbury said. There are many, many victims in this
conflict, but the overwhelming majority of the
400,000 who have died in the past five or six
years—I believe this war is now in its seventh
year—have been victims of the Assad regime and its
supporters. For that reason, I must say to my hon.
Friend that I understand his hesitations, which are
of course shared by many people, who think
instinctively that perhaps it would be better to
stay with the devil we know, but this is a very,
very odious devil indeed, and as I look ahead I
just cannot see how Bashar al-Assad can remain in
power in Syria in the long term. We have to go back
a long way in history to find somebody who has
murdered quite so many of his population and
retained office.
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I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement. Of
course, it is not for any of us in this House to
decide who runs Syria; that is a choice for the
Syrian people.
We should judge recent events in Syria as being
successful only if they form part of a
comprehensive strategy to protect civilian life.
What conversations has the Foreign Secretary had
with the Secretary of State for International
Development about getting the aid that we as a
country have paid for to those who need it in
Syria? Thanks to you, Mr Speaker, we were able to
call for such action for Aleppo, but we failed.
Now, people in Idlib are being targeted in a way
that we have discussed in this House
previously. What strategy do we have to save
civilian lives, to get aid in, to get people out of
Syria so that they can receive medical attention,
and to help to save each and every life that we
can?
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I pay tribute to the hon. Lady’s consistent
campaigning on this issue over the years. She is
right to draw attention to the appalling
humanitarian situation. Around 1.5 million people
are still being besieged by Assad’s regime, which
is using starvation as an instrument of warfare. On
what we are trying to do, I go back to my earlier
points: there must be a ceasefire and the Russians
must make it possible for the humanitarian convoys
to access the people who need help. That is what we
are trying to promote, not only in Geneva but at
the Astana talks. It is up to the Russians. We can
build the exit for them, and I think it is an
attractive exit: they have the chance to get
long-term western support for the rebuilding of
Syria; they would have their strategic interests in
Syria—at Tartus and Latakia—protected in the long
term; and they could have a political role in
Syria’s future, but they have to ensure that there
is a ceasefire, an end to the barrel bombs and a
proper political process.
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Will the Foreign Secretary tell us what the outcome
of that proper political process would be, given
that even commentators who absurdly used to claim
that there were 70,000 moderate fighters against
Assad in Syria now accept that the overwhelming
majority of the armed opposition is run by
Islamists? While accepting that Assad is a monster
in the tradition of Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein,
does the Foreign Secretary also accept that there
is a distinction between punishing him for using
chemical weapons and removing him to replace him
with a virulent Islamist regime?
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I strongly agree with the wisdom of that remark. It
will be essential to have a political process that
preserves the institutions of the Syrian state
while decapitating the monster.
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The international community has failed in Syria for
too long, so I echo the Foreign Secretary’s
comments: some action was indeed needed, and may be
needed in future. His statement was quite rightly
firm on Russia, but it did not give a sense of how
the peace talks will move forward, which, as well
as Russia changing its position, is clearly
essential.
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As several hon. Members have said, in the end, the
new constitution and arrangements for Syria will be
a matter for the Syrian people, but there are
certainly people in Syria on either side of the
debate who could come together to form a new
federal Government for the country and take it
forward to a much brighter future.
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Russia has propped up the Assad regime for far too
long. When I met the Russian ambassador a year ago,
I urged him to request that his Government find a
new home for Assad outside Syria to enable the
political process to move forward and create peace
in that country, but he declined. Does my right
hon. Friend agree that it is time for Russia to
change its mind on that matter?
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To the best of my knowledge, the Russian President
suggested that Bashar al-Assad should find refuge
in some Gulf country, which I shall not upset by
naming.
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In his statement, the Foreign Secretary said, “I
stress that we have no intention of dislodging
Russia from Syria.” Well, we would be fools to
think that we could. He then went on to say, “But
Russia’s position in Syria does not depend on
Assad.” For the past seven years, Putin has
supported Assad through thick and thin. He will not
suddenly develop a conscience, as we can see from
his actions over the years in Chechnya and
elsewhere. We are left in a position in which
Russia, as a member of the UN Security Council,
will constantly block any military attempts, which
leaves us with a scenario where Trump could take
unilateral action, as he did on the Syrian
airfield. Although I supported that particular
action, how far are we supposed to support Trump in
those actions without the backing of the Security
Council? Clearly, he could take such action against
Assad and against President Kim in North Korea.
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I disagree very strongly with the hon. Gentleman.
Of course, it is difficult. Of course the Russians
have been backing Assad for many years, but this is
an opportunity for them to have a new bargain in
which there is a ceasefire, an end to the barrel
bombs and an end to the chemical weapons—a real
political solution—and in exchange they get a
genuine relationship with the United States, join
the rest of the world in the war against
Daesh—[Interruption.] Yes, and they
have an acknowledgment that they have a way out of
the quagmire of Syria and that the west will step
in, once it is possible, to pay for the
reconstruction of that country.
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Iran has committed hundreds of troops and billions
of dollars to Syria. Furthermore, many Iranians in
living memory have been victims of chemical
attacks. Will my right hon. Friend reassure the
House that his Department is taking advantage of
the full diplomatic relations that we now have with
Iran to put pressure on the Assad regime?
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Yes, we certainly are. An important point to make
to the Russians is that, in the end, it is the
Iranians who are benefiting from any progress that
the Assad regime makes. It is the Iranians who are
the whip-holders in that relationship. In the end,
the Russians need to detach themselves from the
Iranians as well as from Assad.
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I hear what the Secretary of State is saying, but a
new report from Human Rights Watch suggests that US
forces last month failed to properly confirm
targets before launching a missile strike in
Aleppo, killing dozens of civilians, including lots
of children. They even destroyed a building that it
has been established was a mosque. As the UK
Government cheerlead yet more US airstrikes in
Syria, what steps will he take to avoid yet more
civilian deaths in Syria?
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Obviously, we deplore any civilian deaths in Syria,
but I also deplore any false equivalence between
American actions and the dropping by the Assad
regime of barbaric weapons, which were banned in
1925.
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I welcome my right hon. Friend’s call for a
peaceful and united Syria—who could disagree with
that—and especially the need for the humanitarian
protection of civilians, but does he agree that
putting down shutters is never a productive way
forward? In that light, will he confirm that he
remains in regular contact with his Russian
counterparts?
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I appreciate the statement from the Foreign
Secretary, and extend my sympathy and thoughts to
the Bevington and Bladon families. He mentioned
that his Government have to deal with odious
devils. Of course some of those devils are home
grown, and this Government have been able to deal
with them in the past. It may seem attractive to
remove one leader from power in terms of regime
change, but does he accept that the real lynchpin
in Syria is Russia? What is the true state of his
relationship with Russian officials and of the
relationship between Her Majesty’s Government and
the Putin regime?
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The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. In the end,
it was the Russian intervention that saved Bashar
al-Assad’s regime. The Russians have it in their
hands to change the outcome in Syria for the
benefit of not just the Syrian people, but Russia
as well.
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I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement,
but, to echo the question of my hon. Friend the
Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh), there
are Members who are concerned about this phrase
“regime change” and any policy that moves in that
direction. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that
if the US moves towards a more explicit
regime-change policy with regard to Assad, we would
only support it after a vote in this House
endorsing such a policy?
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The policy of the Government is spelt out very
clearly in resolution 2254, which calls for a
political process leading to a transition away from
the Assad regime. I think my hon. Friend will agree
that that is the right way forward.
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The Foreign Secretary confirmed that the regime had
been responsible for three previous chemical
attacks on civilians. Given that, can he confirm
whether there is international support for targeted
sanctions against military commanders, despite the
way the negotiations went earlier?
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I am grateful for that question because there was
never a proposition for general sanctions against
Russia, for instance. That was a piece of media
ectoplasm, if you like, Mr Speaker. We have strong
support for the idea of taking the evidence that
the fact-finding mission will accumulate, using it
to isolate the individuals who may have been
responsible—by the way, there may be Russian
military advisers who are complicit—and not only
imposing sanctions on them, which I know my hon.
Friend agrees would be the right thing to do, but
arraigning them for war crimes.
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What role does the Foreign Secretary see the United
Kingdom playing in confronting the bellicose
actions of the North Korean regime?
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The most important and useful thing we can do is to
intercede with our Chinese friends to stress to them
the huge influence that they have in this matter and
get them to use their economic weight to get
Pyongyang to see sense.
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