Asked by Baroness Deech To ask Her Majesty’s Government what
plans they have to improve accessibility for disabled people to
public premises. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State,
Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office
(Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con) My Lords, owners and
occupiers of public...Request free
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Asked by
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord
Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)
My Lords, owners and occupiers of public premises have a
duty under the Equality Act 2010 to make reasonable
adjustments to ensure that disabled people are not put at a
substantial disadvantage. This may include changes to
improve accessibility to their building. New buildings must
meet Building Regulations requirements on access. The
Government are conducting research into the effectiveness
of the statutory guidance which supports those Building
Regulations requirements.
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(CB)
Does the Minister agree that we have lots of legislation
and lots of ventures, but reasonable adjustments are not
being made on the ground and there is a lack of will to
enforce the law? Commons committees have recently heard
very sad evidence about failures at, for example, sports
grounds, which have not been improved for 20 years. There
have also been failures when it comes to people being able
to get into pubs and restaurants, no matter how often the
law is pointed out and promises are made. Does the Minister
not agree that it is time to bring the Building Regulations
up to date and that access should be built in from the
start, not just in new buildings but whenever buildings are
refurbished or repaired, and that local authorities should
be allowed to get on with enforcing this through licensing?
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My Lords, where I do agree with the noble Baroness is in
relation to the importance of ensuring that new buildings
are readily accessible and that appropriate changes are
made to buildings, which of course is what the law provides
for. I do not share her pessimism in relation to
enforcement, on which there have been many recent cases. An
example is Hosegood v Khalid, concerning a restaurant that
did not have an appropriate ramp. Perhaps we need to give
these cases a higher profile, but the law that exists is
being enforced.
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(CB)
My Lords, neither the industrial strategy nor the national
infrastructure plan contain any reference to disability
access. Will the Minister tell us why the Department for
Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy has not addressed
this public sector equality duty, or is this just another
example of cost-cutting, which I referred to in my article
in today’s Guardian?
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My Lords, I regret that I have not read the article as yet
but I will certainly do so. I have a copy of the Guardian
on my desk but, because of today’s Question, I have not yet
had an opportunity to read it. In relation to the very
important points that the noble Baroness makes—I commend
her relentless campaigning role in these areas—there is a
duty on the public sector to set an example; it is not
expressed in those words, but it is certainly happening on
a daily basis. As a country, we do very well compared with
other countries. However, I appreciate that it is not
sufficient and that we need to do more both on a private
basis, by encouraging retailer outlets and business to step
up to the plate, and through government. I readily accept
that. I will take the point that she makes to BEIS—I am not
from BEIS—and ensure that she gets a response.
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(Con)
My Lords, will my noble friend accept that I did a quick
internet search of the Government Equalities Office
yesterday and found three press releases on disabled issues
and 10 on transgender and sexual issues? Clearly,
transgender people face discrimination, but I point out to
my noble friend that 800,000 wheelchair users cannot get
into thousands of public buildings—shops, pubs and
clubs—including the main post office on Victoria Street. We
cannot get into the building, let alone have the luxury of
deciding which toilet to use if we could get in there. Will
he therefore look at an urgent amendment to the Equality
Act 2010? It has been disastrous for disabled people and
has put us at the bottom of the heap—I declare a personal
bias. Will he look at making a simple amendment so that we
can get into buildings over a step which is less than six
inches high? It is a simple thing and it should be done.
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My Lords, once again, I know that my noble friend has
campaigned in this area, and particularly on that issue,
with great force and eloquence. On the point about ramps
and steps in post offices, there has been a recent case in
relation to access to counters, which I think the post
office has settled out of court. Therefore, there are cases
where practice is changing. I accept that, as my noble
friend said, there is certainly more to be done. The
Government Equalities Office is looking at the operation of
the law and will have heard what my noble friend says, but
he said it with great force and it is a point well made.
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The Lord
My Lords, the noble Lord who asked the previous question
did not include churches—and with good reason because there
have been herculean efforts across the estate involving
quite difficult church buildings to make them accessible to
people with limited ability to get up steps and so forth.
Will the Minister join me in paying tribute to the local
efforts, normally paid for locally, which have transformed
the access to historic churches?
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My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate for that
contribution. Certainly, in my experience of visiting
churches and cathedrals in England, that is very much the
case. I am visiting cathedrals in Carlisle, Newcastle and
Durham over the next two days, so I will be looking to see
that they, too, are following the practice that has been
pretty near universal in my experience over the past nine
months of visiting them.
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(LD)
My Lords, what we really need is for the Government to
develop a proper strategy for making public places more
accessible both for the sake of the rapidly ageing
population and for younger disabled people such as MDUK’s
Trailblazers who regularly report on inaccessible leisure
facilities. Perhaps the Government could consider more
carrots and a few more sticks to get those authorities and
others to take appropriate action.
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My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness. Once again, she has
campaigned on these issues. I know that the provision in the
Equality Act does not simply apply to public sector buildings
but to public buildings—buildings that are accessible to the
public or a section of the public. It does not only apply to
museums, art galleries and concert halls but to shops, retail
outlets, pubs and so forth. Just last month, my honourable
friend in the other place, , set up a group, as the
noble Baroness will know, of 11 sector champions to look at
this and who will be challenging inequality. That will work
alongside the provision that we have in the Equality Act. Of
course, the Government will be looking at how that interface
is working.
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(Lab)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that a significant number of
Premier League football clubs will fail to honour the
commitment that they gave in 2015 to make all their stadia
disabled accessible by August 2017? Will he remind them that
Section 20 of the 2010 Act is not an option but is mandatory?
Will the Government empower the Sports Grounds Safety
Authority to enforce the law and make sure that accessible
stadia guidelines are observed?
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My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right and I know that
he has raised this issue many times before. Some are of
course stepping up to the plate and some are not. Some are
partly there. I mention my own club, Leicester City, which I
hope will do a bit more but is already part of the way there.
I take the point seriously. I will write to him on his second
point about enforcement because I am not sure where we are on
that, but I agree that we need to keep their feet to the fire
to make sure that they are performing.
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