Asked by Lord Campbell-Savours To ask Her Majesty’s
Government what representations they have received from public
authorities since 1 January 2017 on the case for introducing
national identity cards in the United Kingdom. The Minister of
State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con) My
Lords, Her Majesty’s Government are not aware of...Request free trial
Asked by
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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they
have received from public authorities since 1 January 2017
on the case for introducing national identity cards in the
United Kingdom.
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The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of
Trafford) (Con)
My Lords, Her Majesty’s Government are not aware of
receiving any representations from public authorities on
the case for introducing national identity cards.
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(Lab)
My Lords, following the Brexit decision and its possible
implications for national identity cards, have the
Government not detected the mood change and change in
public attitudes on their introduction, not only in the
country but in the Commons, in this House and indeed on
their own Benches? Why cannot we now sit down and have a
sensible conversation with the Government on the way
forward? We could start by supporting the application
before the Liaison Committee for an ad hoc committee
inquiry into ID cards to be set up in this Session of
Parliament.
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My Lords, I have not detected any more of an appetite for
national identity cards since the Brexit discussions began.
The Government will certainly have to think about identity
post Brexit, but that will be the subject of discussions
and negotiations.
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(Con)
My Lords, those such as me who used to oppose identity
cards have actually changed their minds. Time has moved on
and the changes in IT and terrorism are so important. When
the world changes, we should change too.
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My Lords, we believe that the investment we are making in
better security, use of intelligence and cybersecurity is a
much more effective use of resources.
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(LD)
My Lords, the Government’s position on ID cards is clear,
and we support it. However, an even greater intrusion into
privacy has been highlighted in today’s Guardian by the
Surveillance Camera Commissioner, who said that:
“The problem is when new and advancing technology is
brought together by well-meaning people that actually
invades people’s privacy, or worse, leaves privacy at risk
of theft or uploading on YouTube”.
He concludes that,
“regulators and the government were struggling to keep up
with the pace of technological change”.
What are the Government doing about it?
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One of the reasons why the Conservative Party opposed
identity cards was because of the civil liberties issue
which the noble Lord outlined. However, he is absolutely
right to point out that the Government should also always
be mindful of privacy versus the advances in technology
that such information can give us.
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(Non-Afl)
My Lords, given that most terrorists and professional
criminals use multiple identities in committing crime, is
it not self-evident that a biometric identity card would be
an advantage in changing policy?
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My Lords, the biometric card would not be any more robust
than some of the systems which we have in place. In fact,
there is evidence that it is just as liable to
counterfeiting as other methods.
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(Con)
My Lords, how would ID cards help the United Kingdom avoid
terrible attacks such as the ones in Paris, Nice and
Berlin?
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My noble friend raises a good question. Many European
countries have identity cards but we have seen no evidence
that they offer any greater protection than we have in this
country.
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(CB)
My Lords, does the Minister accept that, since exit checks
were cancelled about 20 years ago, we have not had the
slightest idea who is on this island? Will the Government
therefore look again at this issue and perhaps take up an
idea first proposed by the noble Lord, , that we could start with passports, which are
already owned by 80% of the country’s population? There is
surely a way forward here and we should take it.
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The noble Lord has highlighted the merit of exit checks,
which we have previously discussed. They were reintroduced
in May 2015 and those data will prove valuable.
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(Lab)
My Lords, it is a great pleasure to agree with the noble
Lord, Lord Green. If biometrics are so easily attacked and
discredited, why have the Government introduced them for
passports?
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The identity card was a tackle-all type of card. The
Government are now trying to be far more robust at identity
assurance from a problem-solving perspective rather than
seeking a particular solution.
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(LD)
My Lords, have not reports suggested that the way to deal
with terrorism on these shores is through targeted,
intelligence-led police operations rather than mass
surveillance?
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The noble Lord is quite right.
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(Non-Afl)
My Lords, has my noble friend the Minister read the early
evidence to the Economic Affairs Committee’s investigation
into Brexit and the labour market? I do not want to
prejudge the conclusions of that report but it makes for
interesting reading, highlights the significant
difficulties in both measuring and controlling migration,
and provides some compelling reasons for revisiting the
case for identity cards.
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Unfortunately, I do not agree with my noble friend. The
approach that we have adopted in successive immigration
Acts is to make it harder for illegal migrants to live and
work in the UK and easier for us to remove them.
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(Lab)
My Lords, I refer to my interests in the register. Given
the decision that has been taken to leave the European
Union, and the fact that a timetable is about to be
established for that which sets an end date, can the noble
Baroness tell us what assessment the Government are making
of the need for better identity assurance—for example, for
the citizens of Northern Ireland, those citizens who wish
to use our health service, and, indeed, to tackle the
employment issues that have just been raised by her noble
friend? Those are urgent questions. What assessment are the
Government making?
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