Asked by
To ask His Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of
the potential merits of bringing forward the deadline for
requiring all new vehicles sold to be ‘zero emission' from 2035
to 2030.
of Leeds (Lab)
My Lords, accelerating to net zero is at the heart of our
mission-driven Government, and this Government are taking action.
All new cars and vans sold in the UK from 2035 will need to be
fully zero-emission. We are not proposing to change this.
However, we are committed to restoring the original 2030
phase-out date for new pure internal combustion engine cars,
alongside setting out ways to support demand for zero-emission
vehicles and accelerating the rollout of charge points.
(Lab)
My Lords, I declare an interest as a former union convenor for
the Vauxhall plant at Ellesmere Port, where I still have family
working. The Tory Government's delay from 2030 to 2035 has thrown
the industry into complete turmoil, as the Minister knows, after
manufacturers invested billions to prepare for 2030. What the
industry needs most of all now is flexibility as their vehicles
disappear from sale, apart from fleet sales. For example,
Vauxhall makes electric—
Noble Lords
Question!
(Lab)
Comrades, please bear with me. For example, Vauxhall makes
electric cars in this country, but they are not off-set by
different quotas and fines for non-compliance. Therefore, will
the Minister agree to meet the industry body, the SMMT, and trade
unions to discuss the implications for UK jobs?
(Lab Co-op)
My Lords, before my noble friend responds, I make it absolutely
clear that this is Question Time and we need questions that are
short and succinct, and short and succinct answers from Ministers
as well.
of Leeds (Lab)
My Lords, my noble friend is correct. The ZEV mandate
includes zero-emission cars and vans separately. That is because
the average emissions from cars and vans are not the same.
However, the mandate is based on UK sales and not manufacturing.
Manufacturers may continue to build any vehicles and export them.
I am aware that the Minister for the Future of Roads, Minister
Greenwood, has already met Unite on this topic, and the
Department for Transport welcomes continued engagement with the
SMMT and trade unions on it.
(LD)
My Lords, I agree with the premise behind the Question about the
2030 date from the noble Lord, , but does the Minister agree
that we need new regulations on electric vehicle charging points
akin to those we have for petrol stations—regulations on
equipment, safety and clear display of pricing—to increase
confidence among potential purchasers of vehicles?
of Leeds (Lab)
The noble Baroness raises a pertinent and important point. When I
was formerly a member of the Electric Vehicle APPG, we had
intensive discussions about that. There are enormous issues
relating to accessibility and disabled people turning up at
points and not being able to access them. We know that local
government has a huge role to play in this. A review is taking
place and will report in February next year. I hope that everyone
can input into that review to make sure that we come up with a
much more fair and equitable system.
(Con)
My Lords, given that when the last Government extended the
phase-out date from 2030 to 2035 they were aligning with Europe,
is the decision of the present Government to go back to 2030 a
deliberate decision to misalign with Europe and to seize a Brexit
opportunity, or do they just think that the Europeans have got it
wrong and they had to overcome their natural Europhilia?
of Leeds (Lab)
I think the noble Lord has referred to himself as the grit in the
oyster. He makes an important point, but we are responding to the
demands of car manufacturers. I think everyone can recall the
outcry when the change was made by the previous Prime Minister,
, more than a year ago. We are
not playing games on this; it is about what is right for the
industry, for the consumer and, most importantly, for the
country.
(LD)
My Lords, in addition to regulation, is it not the case that the
mode of taxation will also need to change and that, as we
electrify our vehicles, we will need to move to road user
charging rather than fuel?
of Leeds (Lab)
The noble Viscount is absolutely right that the end date for the
electric vehicle tax relief is next year. However, as he and
everyone else in this Chamber will be aware, we are approaching a
Budget and I cannot comment on any matter that might be raised in
that.
(Con)
My Lords, the noble Lord's Question was all to do with zero
emission in relation to electric vehicles. Will the Minister
consider carefully the alternatives that we are faced with in
zero emission, such as synthetic fuel, hydrogen power and so on?
Are we not putting all our eggs in the wrong basket?
of Leeds (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for his question. I am sure he is aware
that trials are taking place around hydrogen-fuelled vehicles as
we speak. Everyone is open to looking at new technologies coming
along and making sure that we make the most of our mission to
clean up the air in this country for the benefit of those who
have to breathe it in as well as for the planet, in terms of the
climate change objectives.
(Non-Afl)
My Lords, the Minister will know that the European Union is going
to increase by a huge amount the tax on electric vehicles coming
in from China. Can she tell me, or perhaps write to assure me,
that this will not affect electric cars in Northern Ireland,
which under the Windsor Framework is still in the European Union
for this kind of thing? Does it mean that people in Northern
Ireland will have to pay more or less for their electric
cars?
of Leeds (Lab)
The noble Baroness is right to raise the issue of China and
Chinese imports. At the moment, imports from China represent 34%
of EV cars coming into the country. We will work closely with our
US allies and, obviously, with Europe—but we need to focus on
economic security. I cannot answer the specific question that she
asks about Northern Ireland, but I am happy to follow up with
correspondence on the matter.
(Con)
My Lords, why do the Government think that people on ordinary
incomes will be able to afford these cars, especially if they
have to take into account the possibility, which I hear is on the
table, of road pricing?
of Leeds (Lab)
I think the noble Lord has to reflect on the fact that we are
talking about the new car market. An enormous amount of work
needs to be brought together around the second-hand market—which
also includes recycling the key component parts so that they do
not end up in landfill or other places—so we can make sure that
expensive components are available.
of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, does the Minister share the views put to me by other
Ministers that the biggest problem they have is clearing up the
mess created by the previous Tory Government?
of Leeds (Lab)
Yes.
(Con)
I am not sure we have yet had an answer on the Government's view
on road pricing. Can the Minister answer and make it clear
whether we are going to go down that line?
of Leeds (Lab)
In terms of clear answers, I thought I had made it absolutely
clear that I am not able to comment at this point in time.
(Con)
We definitely did not get a clear answer to the question of
whether ordinary people can afford these types of car. Perhaps
the Minister would like another opportunity to answer that
one.
of Leeds (Lab)
I made it absolutely clear that we are talking about
affordability across the piece. The new car market is a
relatively small part of cars coming in altogether. Affordability
is very much an objective on this side of the House, and I do not
think we need any lectures at all on how we make sure that all
people can benefit from improving manufacturing and living
standards.
(Lab)
Should we not be grateful that we are in a better position
financially than we would have been, had we been trying to shift
London airport down into the estuary?
of Leeds (Lab)
I am sure the noble Lord has far more information on that
subject, and I welcome his contribution.
