Strategic Defence Review
(North Devon) (LD)
1. What progress he has made on the strategic defence review.
(900586)
Mr (Rayleigh and Wickford)
(Con)
8. When he plans to announce the outcome of the strategic defence
review. (900595)
The Secretary of State for Defence ()
The Prime Minister commissioned the strategic defence review
within two weeks of taking office. It will ensure that the UK is
secure at home and strong abroad, both now and in years to come.
The review is the first of its kind in the UK, and I am very
grateful to , General Sir Richard Barrons
and , our three external lead
reviewers. They will make their final report to the Prime
Minister, the Chancellor and me in the first half of 2025. I will
report the SCR to Parliament.
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that answer. I am told that
all that three branches of the armed forces still have a long
backlog of new recruits trying to get through medical
assessments. What assurances can the Secretary of State give us
that the strategic defence review will take account of that?
I have said that the strategic defence review will place people
at its heart, and we will place people at the heart of our
defence plans. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; we follow
14 years of the previous Government's recruitment targets for all
forces being missed every year. We have a recruitment crisis and
a retention crisis. No plan for the future can deal with that
without sorting out recruitment.
Mr Francois
May I wholly concur with your tribute to the late , Mr Speaker?
A critical element of the strategic defence review will be the
defence of our overseas territories. The Foreign Secretary told
the House last week that the deal with Mauritius over the Chagos
islands has been concluded. To save us waiting until next year,
will the Defence Secretary tell us today how much have we offered
to pay Mauritius over 99 years for the privilege of our renting
back a military facility that belongs to us in first the place?
Crucially, which Department will pay that bill: the Ministry of
Defence or the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office?
The Foreign Secretary said in his statement that full details
will be properly set out when the treaty comes before the House.
At that point, the House can scrutinise the deal and approve it
or not. Let me make it clear that we inherited a situation in
which the long-standing UK-US military base was put at risk from
problems to do with sovereignty and migration. We have made a
historic deal that secures the UK-US base for the future, which
is why my counterpart the US Defence Secretary so strongly
welcomed it when we reached it.
Mr Speaker
I call the new Chair of the Defence Committee.
Mr (Slough) (Lab)
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I fully concur with your tribute
to the late .
In these particularly volatile times, I fully welcome the
Government's strategic defence review. I for one hope it will
include serious analysis of the Indo-Pacific region, because many
of us are very concerned about China's recent launch of military
drills around Taiwan. Will the Secretary of State use this
opportunity to condemn those highly aggressive and intimidatory
manoeuvres? What are the Government doing to work with
international allies to de-escalate tensions?
I will indeed. My hon. Friend will know that our party went into
the election committed to building on commitments the previous
Government made on the Indo-Pacific. I want the strategic defence
review to be not just the Government's defence review, but
Britain's defence review. We are consulting military veterans,
industry, academic experts and all parties in this House. I trust
that, like me, he will welcome that all-party approach,
particularly as he now chairs the Select Committee, and will work
with us.
Mrs (South Shields) (Lab)
The SDR is welcome and needed. The previous Conservative
Government left our armed forces personnel, capabilities and
funding depleted. Can the Secretary of State—[Interruption.] Hang
fire. Can the Secretary of State assure me that the experts
conducting our review will have an ongoing focus on our sovereign
defence industrial base, and ensure that regions such as the
north-east are pivotal in that?
They will indeed. This is the way we can reinforce the UK's
security and economy. And yes, we can build, through the SDR, on
the work that the hon. Member for South Suffolk () did when he was Minister
for defence procurement. Like my hon. Friend the Member for South
Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck), I am really angry about the state of
defence after the last Government: there are billion-pound black
holes in defence plans; service morale is at record lows; and
Army numbers are set to fall below 70,000 next year. We will work
night and day to make our forces more fit to fight, and to make
Britain more secure at home and stronger abroad.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
(South Suffolk) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I associate all of us in my party with
your comments about the late .
The most important point about the SDR is that it must not be
used as an excuse to delay increasing the defence budget to 2.5%
of GDP. In September, in answers to written questions, the
Department said that it would set out a path to spending 2.5% of
GDP on defence “as soon as possible”, but last week, at the
Dispatch Box, in his middle east statement, the Prime Minister
said that the Government would go to 2.5% “in due course”. We all
know that there is a massive difference between the two, so which
is it?
The Government are totally committed to spending 2.5% on defence
to meet the increasing threat the country faces. The Prime
Minister confirmed that in his first week in office, when he and
I were together at the NATO summit in Washington. Of course, the
last time this country spent 2.5% on defence was in 2010 under
Labour, and that level was not matched in any one of the 14 years
in which the hon. Gentleman's party was in power.
That is a concern. In 2010, just to remind the House, the black
hole in the defence budget was bigger than the defence budget,
and we were left a note saying that there was no money left. It
is significant if the wording is no longer “as soon as possible”
and is now “in due course”. It is in the national interest to go
to 2.5% because of the threats we face as a country. If the
Secretary of State told us now that he was fighting hard with the
Treasury to go to 2.5% in the Budget at the end of this month, he
would have our full support. Is that what he is doing?
Fourteen years, Mr Speaker, yet the Conservatives produced their
unfunded plan for 2.5% on defence only four weeks before they
called the election. It was the hon. Gentleman's former boss, the
Defence Secretary , who told the truth about their record in government
when he said to the House:
“we have hollowed out and underfunded”[—[Official Report, 30
January 2023; Vol. 727, c.
18.]](/search/column?VolumeNumber=727&ColumnNumber=18&House=1&ExternalId=FEC1D749-B522-4B8E-B4FC-5AC91E98B065)
our armed forces since 2010.
Ukraine: Military Support
(Leigh and Atherton) (Lab/Co-op)
2. What steps he is taking to increase military support to
Ukraine. (900587)
(East Worthing and Shoreham)
(Lab)
23. What steps he is taking to increase military support to
Ukraine. (900610)
The Secretary of State for Defence ()
This is day 963 of Russia's brutal, illegal, full-scale invasion
of Ukraine. On my second day in this job, I travelled to Odesa
and met President Zelensky, because Ukraine is one of my
first-order priorities, just as it is for the Government. Since
then, we have stepped up military aid, sped up the delivery of
battlefield supplies, and confirmed that we will supply £3
billion a year in military aid to Ukraine this year, next year,
and every year that it takes for Ukraine to prevail.
Medics4Ukraine, a UK-based humanitarian organisation, has
delivered more than £3 million-worth of medical aid and training
to Ukraine, and its founders, Professor Mark Hannaford and Lucia
Altatti, were recently awarded medals for their contribution to
that. The Government are committed to increasing military aid;
does the Secretary of State agree that medical support is a
strategic component, and will he meet the founders of
Medics4Ukraine to discuss how the Government can further support
its lifesaving work?
I agree with my hon. Friend, and I too pay tribute to the work of
Medics4Ukraine. The UK's Defence Medical Services is also at the
forefront of Ukraine's efforts to develop a modern military
healthcare system. We have provided training for battlefield
surgical teams, we have supplied medical equipment, and, as a
world leader in military rehabilitation, we are supporting the
development of Ukraine's rehabilitation hospitals. A member of
our defence team will be delighted to meet my hon. Friend and
Medics4Ukraine to take this matter further.
It was hugely welcome to see the Prime Minister host President
Zelensky and welcome the new NATO Secretary-General to London
last week. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking not only to
ensure that UK meets our NATO obligations, but to fundamentally
strengthen UK leadership in NATO?
My hon. Friend is right: that is the first priority. It will be
the centrepiece of the Government's defence plan, and it is at
the heart of the strategic defence review. When President
Zelensky was in London last week, he made it clear that for
Ukraine, this is a critical period in the war. The Ukrainians are
fighting with huge courage, but the Russians are putting great
pressure on their frontlines. Putin shows contempt for the lives
of his own soldiers: the average Russian losses in September were
1,271 per day, a record high and two and a half times the level
this time last year. As Zelensky promotes his victory plan, we in
the UK and our allies must do all that we can to strengthen
Ukraine during the coming weeks.
Sir (Harwich and North Essex)
(Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree that the democratic world
cannot afford to lose this war, and does he recall that it is
often said that the total defence expenditure of all Ukraine's
democratic allies far exceeds anything that Russia could possibly
deploy, so Russia will inevitably lose? When will we deploy this
might to gain a decisive victory for Ukraine and secure the
international global order?
The hon. Gentleman is right on both counts. First, the defence of
the UK and the rest of Europe starts in Ukraine, and it is
essential that we stand with Ukraine and support it for as long
as it takes. Secondly, as he says—this is a matter that the Prime
Minister and I discussed with the new Secretary-General of NATO,
Mark Rutte, last week when he was in London—the allies together
must do more to support Ukraine now, and to produce what it needs
in the future. The new Secretary-General will make that one of
his priorities.
(Arbroath and Broughty
Ferry) (SNP)
Thank you for your kind comments about our late right hon. friend
, Mr Speaker.
I thank the Secretary of State for his contribution. He will be
aware of the failures of analysis at the start of the full-scale
invasion. Will he consider the report by Phillips O'Brien and
Eliot Cohen of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies
that looked at some of those failures, so that he is informed for
the next process, in terms of support for Ukraine and building
support internationally?
I will indeed. If the hon. Gentleman could be so kind as to send
me the executive summary, rather than the full report, I will
certainly take a look at it.
Russia: Armed Forces
Sir (New Forest East) (Con)
3. What recent estimate his Department has made of the percentage
of Russia's gross domestic product spent on its armed forces in
each year since the invasion of Ukraine. (900588)
The Secretary of State for Defence ()
Russia's declared total military expenditure was around 4.7% of
GDP in 2022. In 2023 it was 5.9% of GDP, and the forecast
spending this year is up to around 7% of GDP. As the right hon.
Gentleman knows very well, the public figures almost certainly do
not tell the full story about Russian expenditure.
Sir
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for putting that on the
record. Does that frightening set of figures not show the scale
of the problem and the weight of attack that Russia can bring to
bear against Ukraine? How are we doing with the double demand on
our resources—the need to both supply Ukraine with hardware and
ammunition, and replenish our stocks of hardware and ammunition
in order to fulfil our NATO security requirements?
The right hon. Gentleman describes the double challenge of
continuing to support Ukraine and replenishing our stockpiles,
particularly of the weapons, ammunition and systems that we have
gifted to Ukraine. The Government already have £1 billion-worth
of contracts for replenishing UK stockpiles across a range of
systems, and I can tell him that around 60% of the contracted
production will be in the UK. That is the way we strengthen
Britain's security for the future, but also strengthen Britain's
economic growth and prosperity.
(Widnes and Halewood) (Lab)
I thank the Secretary of State for the work he is doing to
support Ukraine. It is very important that we have a united
front, and that we are there for the long term to support
Ukraine, as we have already heard this morning. What is his view
about the determination of our allies to see this conflict
through right to the end?
I feel more confident in this job than I did when I was in my
previous job. I recently attended the US-led gathering of almost
50 countries in Ramstein, where they made a long-term commitment
to supporting Ukraine now and into the future. That gave me
confidence that, with work, we can play a leading role in helping
that coalition to hold together, and in getting NATO to do more
to co-ordinate action and ensure that we get support behind
Ukraine, so that it prevails and Putin loses.
AUKUS Strategic Partnership
(Barrow and Furness)
(Lab)
4. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of progress
on the AUKUS strategic partnership. (900589)
(Stockton North) (Lab)
19. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of
progress on the AUKUS strategic partnership. (900606)
The Minister for the Armed Forces ()
The UK is fully committed to the AUKUS partnership. On 26
September, the Secretary of State hosted the first AUKUS Defence
Ministers' meeting outside the US. During that discussion, he
provided direction and guidance to accelerate our taking
advantage of the opportunities that this landmark partnership
presents to us. I refer Members to the Defence Ministers' meeting
joint communication for more details on progress.
The Secretary of State already knows how proud we are in Barrow
and Furness to be building our Astute and Dreadnought submarines,
and to be part of the AUKUS programme. I know from our
discussions that this Government understand that we need a
cross-departmental approach to support the delivery of the AUKUS
deal in Barrow and Furness. Will he comment on the importance of
that broad approach, which aims to make Barrow an even better
place in which to live, work and raise a family, and will he meet
me to discuss that further?
I thank my hon. Friend for her question. Both the Secretary of
State and I have visited Barrow to see not only the incredible
innovation in the shipyard there, but the amazing workforce who
are putting together the nuclear submarines. As my hon. Friend
knows, the Government are indeed working across Departments, and
with the local council and BAE Systems, to invest heavily not
only in the development of the shipyard and the submarine
facilities, but in the community that they need. I would be very
happy to meet her and colleagues to discuss this issue
further.
The most recent AUKUS Defence Ministers communiqué outlined an
investment in industrial capacity, including £7 billion from this
Government, and the Royal United Services Institute has said that
the winner in any prolonged war will be the country with the most
secure industrial base. Will the Minister expand on his answer to
the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir ) and describe how this
investment in our defence capabilities will strengthen supply
chains in places such as Billingham in my constituency?
It is certainly true that armies march on their stomach, and in
the event of a larger conflict, it will be the strength of our
industrial base that determines the victor. That is why we are
working together with industry to deliver a new defence
industrial strategy, in particular to strengthen our resilience
and innovation and to harness expertise, including in my hon.
Friend's constituency. I would be happy to meet him to discuss
how we can make the most of those opportunities.
(The Wrekin) (Con)
The Minister will know that our AUKUS partners, the United States
and Australia, have recently held bilateral discussions with
South Korea, Japan, New Zealand and Canada about becoming part of
the so-called pillar 2 of AUKUS, and I wonder what bilateral
discussions the UK has had on this.
There is an opportunity to work with many of our partners
internationally on pillar 2 opportunities. Those conversations
have been taking place at official level within the Ministry of
Defence and at political level, and we are continuing to work to
bring those forward because if we want to buy the high-end
war-winning kit that we need, the best way of doing that is to
work with our partners to ensure not only that we have it but
that our allies are able to make the most of it as well.
(Bromsgrove) (Con)
In the light of the increasing geopolitical threats that we face,
can the Minister give an update on the adequacy and resilience of
the computer chip supply chain that backs up the UK military?
The hon. Member is right to highlight the fragility of the
international supply chain in that area. It is very important
that Governments in the west, and in the NATO alliance in
particular, are able to onshore production and to
“friendly-shore” production—no matter how awkward that term is—to
ensure that we are less exposed to threats. Colleagues in the
Department for Business and Trade, as well as MOD colleagues, are
looking into that. More work is needed in this area, but we are
acting on it.
LGBT Veterans
(Brighton Kemptown and
Peacehaven) (Lab)
5. What progress he has made on implementing the recommendations
of the LGBT veterans independent review.(900590)
The Minister for Veterans and People ()
If you will allow me to say so, Mr Speaker, it is with great
pride that I stand behind this Dispatch Box for the first time,
after 24 years of service, to represent veterans, serving
personnel and their families and dependants. Be under no
illusion: it is now my duty to serve them here in Government and
to fight for the deal that they deserve.
I was serving when the ban was lifted in 2000 by a Labour
Government. The treatment of LGBT veterans was completely and
utterly unacceptable. The treatment of LGBT veterans has been
dealt with by the Etherton review, which we will see out at the
end of the year. We have met 32 of the 49 recommendations and we
will meet those on the financial redress scheme by the end of
this year, with a launch in January next year.
LGBT veterans have suffered appalling injustice and ingratitude,
including many in my Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven
constituency. I welcome the update from the Minister, but he will
know that it is recommendation 28 on financial redress and
compensation that is causing concern among veterans. Because the
report caps compensation at £50 million, the average payment per
veteran might be as low as £12,500. The then Prime Minister, now
the Leader of the Opposition, rightly told the House that the ban
was
“an appalling failure of the British state”.[—[Official Report,
19 July 2023; Vol. 736, c.
897.]](/search/column?VolumeNumber=736&ColumnNumber=897&House=1)
Will the Minister meet me and Fighting With Pride to discuss how
we can take this forward to get fair and swift compensation?
I know that a significant number of my hon. Friend's constituents
are affected by this completely unacceptable and highly
regrettable policy. I met Fighting With Pride and just last week. I will meet
them again and I will meet my hon. Friend to talk through the
detail. I can confirm that Defence is working with experts across
Government to establish an appropriate financial redress scheme.
That scheme will launch this year and I will update the House in
due course.
UK Defences
(Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) (Lab)
6. What steps he is taking to help secure the future of the UK's
defences.(900592)
(Hendon) (Lab)
17. What steps he is taking to help secure the future of the UK's
defences.(900604)
The Minister for the Armed Forces ()
The strategic defence review will consider all aspects of defence
so that the United Kingdom is both secure at home and strong
abroad. It will ensure that defence is central to both the
security and the economic growth and prosperity of our homeland.
The SDR will set out a deliverable and affordable plan within the
trajectory of spending 2.5% of GDP on defence.
The Department's future capability innovation programme
accelerates innovation in operational capability. Given its
success in delivering rapidly prototyped drones to Ukraine, and
in growing the UK drone sector as part of the process, how will
the Minister make sure that the lessons learned from the
programme are adopted across defence procurement, especially in
areas such as cyber-security and artificial intelligence, to
ensure that innovation is rapidly operationalised and that a
higher proportion of the work goes to British small and
medium-sized enterprises?
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her question and for
championing the country's tech sectors. She is absolutely right
that the experience we are seeing in Ukraine means that we need
to innovate faster, have more spiral development and bring more
talent into these sectors. We have a good record of doing so, not
just on drones but on AI and directed energy systems, where we
have our own capabilities. We are now working with NATO, Five
Eyes and AUKUS partners to ensure that we learn from that and to
make sure that it is not just our big defence primes but the
entire supply chain, including small businesses and start-ups,
that benefits.
It was a huge pleasure to welcome my right hon. Friend the
Secretary of State to the Nepalese community centre in Burnt Oak
this summer to talk to Gurkha veterans about the issues they
face. Does the Minister agree that the Gurkha Regiment has an
important role to play in the future of the UK's defence? Will he
outline what steps the Ministry of Defence is taking to address
the failures of the previous Government in supporting Gurkha
veterans, and will he meet me to discuss these issues?
The Government greatly value the contribution that the Gurkhas
continue to make in supporting the UK's security and defence, and
we take our responsibility to Gurkha veterans very seriously. The
Government remain committed to supporting them and their families
during and after their service with the British Army. The
Minister for Veterans and People is shortly to meet the
ambassador of Nepal and Gurkha veteran representatives to
continue that work.
Mr Gagan (South West Hertfordshire)
(Con)
As the Minister will know, the Royal Fleet Auxiliary industrial
dispute is putting our national security at risk. Does he think
it is a betrayal of our defence that Labour puts generous
settlements for their rail paymasters over the small number of
seafarers who keep us safe?
I think the hon. Gentleman can do better than that, to be honest.
It is important that we support not only those who serve in all
our forces, but those in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. Discussions
are ongoing to try to resolve the industrial action that started
under the last Government, and I want to thank all those who
serve in the Royal Navy, in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and in
civilian roles. It is the whole team that matters, and they all
matter to this Government.
(Glastonbury and Somerton)
(LD)
Many of my constituents work in the defence sector, with RNAS
Yeovilton based in Glastonbury and Somerton, Thales operating
from Templecombe, and Leonardo based nearby. However, the
“Delivering the Defence Workforce of the Future” report revealed
that 77% of key decision makers and influencers in the sector
believe that a shortage of science, technology, engineering and
maths skills will deteriorate the UK's defence capabilities. What
steps will the Minister take to address this shortage and to
secure the UK's defence?
I am grateful for the contribution of south-west defence
companies to our national defence. As a south-west MP, I know it
is important.
If we are to have sustainable defence, we need not only our armed
forces but our supply chain to invest in skills on a sustainable,
long-term basis. Short-term contracts do not contribute to that,
which is one of the reasons why, as part of our defence
industrial strategy and the strategic defence review, we are
looking longer term at how to make sure we have the skills we
need for both those who serve and those who support those who
serve. There is a lot of work to do in this area.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(South Shropshire)
(Con)
As a rifleman, I know the importance of training for military
operations; it ensures readiness, lethality and survivability. In
addition to the recent announcement that there is no firm
timeline for spending 2.5% of GDP, possible cuts to the training
budget have been mentioned. Will the Minister confirm that there
will be no cuts to the training budget in either this financial
year or the next?
I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place; it is a great job
being shadow Minister for the Armed Forces, as I know. If I may
say so politely, the reason there is severe financial pressure on
us is that this Government were left with a £22 billion financial
black hole by his party. Let me be clear: supporting our armed
forces to train to be the best, to deter aggression and to defeat
it if necessary is a priority for this Government. Despite the
economic circumstances his party passed on to mine, we are taking
steps to ensure that our armed forces have what they need.
Veterans: Support
(Lowestoft) (Lab)
7. What steps he is taking to support veterans.(900593)
The Minister for Veterans and People ()
This is a Government of service that will always stand up for
those who serve our country. That is why the Prime Minister
focused on the debt we owe our veterans in his first conference
speech as Prime Minister. As a veteran myself, I stand steadfast
in my commitment to deliver improved services for veterans,
working closely across Government and with the devolved
Governments.
The Lord Kitchener Memorial Holiday Centre is an extraordinary
charity in my constituency, set up more than 100 years ago after
the great war to provide convalescence for returning soldiers.
Today it provides much-needed short stays for veterans and their
families across the country, as well as a drop-in and information
centre for veterans locally, but sadly its funding situation is
precarious. Does the Minister agree that investing in our locally
valued veterans' charities is essential if we are to provide the
best support for our brave service personnel?
I thank my hon. Friend for an important statement and question,
and I thank the Lord Kitchener Memorial Holiday Centre for all
the work it has done in supporting veterans for over a century
now—it is truly deserving of applause. I would be happy to visit
the centre with her to see the brilliant work that it does. The
Government are looking at the best way to deliver collaboratively
across the charitable sector, which includes more than 1,000
charities, to deliver the best support for veterans and deliver
the deal they deserve.
(Huntingdon) (Con)
During his Labour conference speech, the Prime Minister made one
of his key announcements:
“We will repay those who served us and house all veterans in
housing need. Homes will be there for heroes.”
Hon. Members
Hear, hear!
Wait for it. Last week, the Government confirmed that that would
actually be done by exempting veterans from local connection and
residency tests, rather than by making dedicated housing
available. Given that it was a key conference pledge, what
guarantees are the Government able to offer veterans that homes
really will be there for them?
As the hon. Gentleman will know, Op Fortitude is running and we
have had more than 2,000 referrals so far, with 700 veterans put
into housing. We will continue to extend the programme to ensure
that every veteran has a home in due course.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(West Aberdeenshire and
Kincardine) (Con)
This weekend marked 40 years since one of the most appalling and
audacious terrorist attacks on British soil, the attack on the
Conservative party conference in Brighton in 1984. Five people
died in the bombing. If you will forgive me, Mr Speaker, they
were the Member of Parliament for Enfield, Southgate, Anthony
Berry; Lady Jeanne Shattock; Muriel Maclean of the Scottish
Conservatives; Eric Taylor; and Roberta Wakeham. All are
remembered. Thirty-one people were also injured and some never
recovered.
The peace that we enjoy today in Northern Ireland and across
these islands was hard-won over many decades, but hard-won also
was the protection afforded to our veterans, who served our
country through the troubles and have since been plagued by
ambulance-chasing lawyers with vexatious claims. That protection
was achieved through the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and
Reconciliation) Act 2023, but there is concern within the veteran
community that the new Government's proposed repealing and
replacement of that Act will put those men and women, many of
whom are now well into retirement, at risk. Can the hon. and
gallant Gentleman assure me, and them, that they will be
protected and that those who served our country with distinction
and valour over so many years will never be at the mercy of those
seeking to distort their service or to damage their lives and
reputations?
I thank the hon. and gallant Gentleman for his comments. Our
Government recognise the important service of veterans and
serving personnel and the sacrifices they made to keep us all
safe in Northern Ireland during the troubles. I did not serve
during the troubles, but I did serve in Northern Ireland and I
understand them. He has my absolute commitment that any
individual who needs to go through legal proceedings will get the
correct welfare and legal support.
Ukraine: Military Support
(Southend West and
Leigh) (Lab)
9. What recent discussions he has had with his international
counterparts on support for Ukraine.(900596)
(Stourbridge) (Lab)
13. What recent discussions he has had with his international
counterparts on support for Ukraine.(900600)
(Warwick and Leamington)
(Lab)
15. What recent discussions he has had with his international
counterparts on support for Ukraine.(900602)
The Secretary of State for Defence ()
I regularly discuss how best to support Ukraine with
international partners. Last week, I met my Ukrainian counterpart
and the new Secretary-General of NATO in London. Last month at
the Ukraine defence contact group in Ramstein, I met nearly 50
other Defence Ministers who came together to commit to continued
support of Ukraine, both in the immediate fight and for the long
term.
I thank my right hon. Friend for his response. Our military
support needs to be part of wider diplomatic and economic
support. There is growing concern about loopholes that allow
Russian oil exports to a third-party country to be developed into
other petroleum products and then to be imported into the UK and
other countries that have imposed sanctions on Russia. Can the
Secretary of State tell me what work he and his counterparts are
doing to crack down on that loophole and to stop inadvertently
funding the Russian war effort?
My hon. Friend is right: alongside military aid, economic support
and diplomatic help are required to support Ukraine and put
pressure on Russia. The UK has banned the import of Russian oil
and oil products, in line with the steps taken by the US and the
European Union. Importers must now include proof of origin and
country of last dispatch as a way of tightening up on the
loopholes, and we will not hesitate to take further action if
Russian revenues, which fuel the war machine, are not closed off
by the sanctions.
I thank the Secretary of State for his answer. On a recent visit
to Ukraine, I visited the Chernihiv oblast, which is a former
Russian red line. There, we saw a large military effort by
communities and local government. Given that large segments of
the military in Ukraine are made up differently from our own
Ministry of Defence, what discussions is the Secretary of State
having to ensure funds are going into community and local
government efforts?
Like my hon. Friend, I have been privileged to see some of those
community efforts and local mayor- led initiatives when I have
visited Ukraine. Part of the work that the Government have put in
place since 2022— I am proud of the UK's leadership on Ukraine
over that period—has been to commit £38 million to the Ukraine
good governance fund. That has allowed communities to draw down
some of that funding and the Ukrainian Government to take steps
to deal with some of the corruption that has been endemic since
the Soviet period. That is an extraordinary feat, given that they
are fighting a war and dealing with corruption in their system at
the same time.
With winter looming, defending the home front in Ukraine is
paramount. However, Russia has intensified its attacks on energy
infrastructure in Ukraine, including substations, where it has
deployed cluster munitions. That is particularly alarming. Given
those developments, what additional support can the UK give
through de-mining equipment to get rid of those munitions from
the ground?
My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is vital to remember
that these are not military targets; they are civilian targets.
These are Russian actions that breach international humanitarian
law and we must never lose sight of the moral outrage about what
the Russians are doing. Clearly, with the onset of winter, there
is a vital imperative for Britain and other countries to step up
support as we can. Since the election, we have been offering
specialist advice on how to protect energy generation and
transmission sites, and the Foreign Secretary, when he was in
Ukraine last month, committed another £20 million to support
emergency energy needs.
(Dumfries and Galloway)
(Con)
In the shell crisis of 1915, the Government of the day and
industry came together to support our troops on the western
front. We are hearing much about new contracts being placed for
things such as ordnance, which is critical to the defence of
Ukraine and to replenishing our own stocks. Does the Secretary of
State share my concern that senior figures in the Scottish
Government seem reluctant to put money into those defence
companies, except for civilian use? Can he explain how Scotland
can play its full part since it provides so much of the ordnance,
with everything from Storm Shadow to Type 26 destroyers built in
Scotland?
The hon. Member and I share common cause in recognising the role
that Scottish workers and Scottish industry play not just in the
security of our own United Kingdom, but through the contribution
we make to supporting Ukraine in its fight. I have been proud to
visit workers in some of the Scottish sites. Our defence
industrial strategy, as we develop it in the months ahead, will
reinforce the essential role that Scotland plays in our security,
and in the UK economy.
(Honiton and Sidmouth)
(LD)
Last week, President Zelensky of Ukraine met with German
Chancellor Scholz. Zelensky said:
“For us, it is very important that aid does not decrease next
year.”
It is welcome that the Foreign Secretary will meet with EU27
Ministers later to discuss the war in Ukraine, but will the EU27
plus the UK be in a position to assure Zelensky that military aid
to Ukraine will not decrease next year, regardless of what
happens in the presidential election next month?
Yes, they will.
(Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Defence Secretary for that response. When I look at
Israel's capacity to defend its citizens and its property with
its dome system, it is clear to me that Ukraine needs something
similar. Has he had an opportunity to talk to his NATO
compatriots, and with the USA in particular, to see whether it is
possible to offer Ukraine some of the protection that Israel
has?
The hon. Gentleman is right that one of the priorities that the
Ukrainian President and Defence Minister have constantly stressed
to us and other allies is the need for stronger air defence. It
is one of the reasons we have now let a contract for short-range
air defence missiles: the lightweight multirole missiles. We will
produce 650 of those—some of them delivered into Ukraine before
the end of the year—and we look to go further in 2025.
Global Combat Air Programme
(Hereford and South
Herefordshire) (Con)
10. What progress he has made on delivering the global combat air
programme. (900597)
Mr Speaker
I think you are meant to stand up when you ask a Question
formally.
Hon. Members
He's new!
Mr Speaker
He's far too grand for it!
The Minister for the Armed Forces ()
Let me be absolutely clear that GCAP is an important programme,
as the Prime Minister has stated. That is why the Defence
Secretary hosted his Japanese and Italian counterparts within
weeks of taking office. Progress continues, alongside the
strategic defence review, with more than 3,500 people employed on
future combat air.
I apologise if I was hypnotised by your gaze, Mr Speaker.
I worry about the Government's grip on strategy all together.
First, they have given away the Chagos islands before the
strategic defence review. Now they are putting at risk the global
combat air programme by including it within the SDR. Is the
Minister aware of the extreme efforts that our partners in Italy
and Japan, visited by the Defence Committee in the last
Parliament, have made to discharge their side of the bargain—in
Japan's case for the first time since the second world war in
international procurement outside the USA? What measures is he
taking to reassure them about the centrality and importance of
the programme?
The Defence Secretary has clear instructions from the manifesto
that Britain is to be better defended with a Labour Government.
That is why within two weeks of taking office the Prime Minister
had commissioned to conduct the strategic
defence review. The Prime Minister, the Defence Secretary and I
have all made it clear that GCAP is an important programme. Not
only do we have an amazing workforce working on it but I am
pleased to tell the House that last month the UK ratified the
GCAP convention, the international treaty that sets up the GCAP
International Government Organisation. We will continue to make
progress.
(Caerphilly) (Lab/Co-op)
GCAP will contribute £37 billion to the economy, but the Minister
will know that the SDR being under review has led to a number of
stories appearing in the press that the programme is about to
cancelled. As someone who once represented General Dynamics,
which built Ajax, I know that a belief that something will not
happen tends to cause problems within the local and national
economies. As the SDR goes ahead, will the Minister ensure that
this House and the press will be kept up to date on how GCAP is
developing?
GCAP is an important programme, and there will be further updates
in relation to it as the SDR reports in the first half of next
year. In the meantime, we continue to progress the project;
indeed, work is continuing across a range of necessary and
important defence projects, because we do not want the SDR to be
an excuse to slow down progress. At a time when our troops and
allies are operating in difficult and contested environments, we
need to ensure that we invest in the kit that we need. That is
what the SDR will set out: the future shape of the UK armed
forces.
Defence Research and Development: Funding
(Exmouth and Exeter East)
(Con)
11. What plans he has for future levels of spending on defence
research and development. (900598)
The Minister for the Armed Forces ()
Defence R&D is critical to maximising the operational
advantage of our armed forces. In an increasingly volatile and
technology-driven world, the Department remains committed to
investing in cutting-edge science, technology and innovation.
Just after my appointment to the Department, I was delighted to
visit the commando training centre in the hon. Member's
constituency to see the innovative training and capabilities of
the future commando force.
Frontier technologies such as artificial intelligence are already
shaping every domain across the modern battlefield. To stay ahead
of our adversaries and keep our service personnel and allies
safe, it is imperative that we have the domestic ability to
develop these technologies. As supercomputing is essential for
the development of advanced AI systems, it was disappointing to
see the Labour Government pull the plug on the University of
Edinburgh's £800 million exascale supercomputing project. From
listening to the Secretary of State and his team, I know that
they understand the need to invest in AI for defence, so will the
Minister please inform the House how the Department intends to
create these technologies when his party's demand signal to
academia and industry appears to be wavering?
I welcome the hon. Gentleman to the House. As a fellow Devon MP,
I believe it is important that we have a strong voice on defence,
so I am grateful for his question. The new Government have been
very clear that we see AI playing a really important role not
just in defence, but across a whole range of technologies. My
right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation
and Technology is leading on much of that work in his Department.
AI and related technologies are being looked at in relation to
the strategic defence review, where we need not only to upscale
the innovative work that is already being done by UK
technologies, but to provide the skills and the supply chain to
ensure that we can continue to deliver, learning the lessons from
what we are seeing in Ukraine, in particular.
(East Wiltshire) (Con)
Ministers repeatedly state their commitment to reaching a
spending level of 2.5% of GDP on defence, but they simply will
not tell the House when they will do so. It is no surprise that
we are already hearing reports of potential cuts to programmes in
defence R&D. Will the Minister simply rule out cuts to
defence R&D and science spending in this financial year and
the next?
As a Government, we are committed to spending 2.5% of GDP on
defence. We have set out clearly that that will be announced at a
future fiscal event. I must say that I am a wee bit disappointed,
because I would have expected the Opposition Front Benchers to
stand up and apologise for the mess that they have left not just
the armed forces, but the wider economy. The Government are
committed to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. We are committed to
investing in our armed forces, and we will continue to do so.
(Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
May I concur with your comments about the late , Mr Speaker?
The exchange of research and development between Ukraine and the
UK is vital to improve the security of both countries. What steps
is the Department taking to learn from the innovative
technologies from the battlefield to develop shared collaborative
capabilities?
I congratulate the hon. Lady on her appointment as a shadow
spokesperson. I was in Ukraine a few weeks ago leading a trade
delegation of British companies looking at precisely the issue of
how we can learn from the battlefield experience of Ukraine,
making sure that for the new technologies needed there, we can
invest in the supply chain—not only in the UK, but in Ukraine—to
make it more resilient. A lot of work is ongoing in this area,
but we will need to do more. If we are to defeat Putin's illegal
invasion, we will need not only to restock our own supply chain,
but to accelerate the provision of innovative tech to Ukraine.
That is what this Government are committed to doing.
Topical Questions
(Stockton North) (Lab)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental
responsibilities.(900611)
The Secretary of State for Defence ()
The middle east continues to be a major focus for the Government.
Last week, we passed one year since the horrifying Hamas terror
attack on Israel. We marked the memory of those who were
murdered, we grieved with the families of the hostages who are
still held, and we share the agony of so many Palestinians over
the civilians who have been killed since.
We are working on an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. In Lebanon we
are working to reduce the risk of further escalation, and a
ceasefire and the UN plan for a buffer zone are vital to that. In
addition, last week I visited British troops in Cyprus, where
contingency plans are in place to deal with further developments.
On behalf of the House, I thank them for their professionalism
and their dedication.
Can my right hon. Friend outline what steps the Government are
taking to ensure that every veteran who has bravely served this
country has access to safe and secure housing, so that they never
face the injustice of homelessness?
The Minister for Veterans and People ()
As I mentioned before, Op FORTITUDE is up and running. It is
doing exceptionally well, with over 2,000 referrals and 700
veterans finding housing, and we will work to continue that
programme for the foreseeable future.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
(South Suffolk) (Con)
Thousands of children of armed forces personnel face unaffordable
increases to their school fees because of this Government's
ideological decision to charge VAT on education. That could have
the perverse effect of forcing experienced personnel to quit the
service of their country just when we should be seeking to
maximise retention. Will the Minister therefore confirm that
children of armed forces families will be exempt from the new VAT
rise, and furthermore that that exemption will apply from January
when the new tax kicks in?
We recognise the extraordinary strain that is sometimes placed on
the family of armed forces personnel, including their children.
That is why the continuity of education allowance—an important
part of the package that reflects and respects the service—is in
place, and it is why we are looking very closely at options to
ensure we continue with that.
(Cramlington and Killingworth)
(Lab/Co-op)
T2. Earlier this month, a Royal Navy investigation found
intolerable misogyny in the submarine service, following
complaints of bullying and sexual harassment. Forward Assist, a
charity based in my constituency that supports survivors, has
done research and a number of reports into the prevalence and
impact of military sexual trauma. Will the Secretary of State
meet me and that charity to discuss its findings, and how we can
support serving personnel and veterans?(900612)
I would love to visit that charity with my hon. Friend in due
course. Any reports of misogyny or wrongdoing in any way are
utterly unacceptable. That is why since entering government we
have started a programme of raising our standards with a plan to
enact cultural change across defence, with the aim of making
defence the best place to work across Government.
Mr Speaker
I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
(Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
This year, British military jets have been involved in several
operations in the middle east without consulting Parliament.
Allowing the Commons to debate military action wherever feasible
is essential to ensuring public accountability. Will the
Secretary of State set out the Government's stance on the use of
a parliamentary vote to approve military action?
It is a convention that if military action is authorised by the
Prime Minister, that is reported as soon as possible to this
House. It is important to any Prime Minister and any Government
that if they commit UK forces to military action, they will want
the support of all sides of this House.
(Newport West and Islwyn)
(Lab)
T8. Under an agreement inherited from the last Government, a
system remains in place allowing for the licensing of trail
hunting on land owned by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation.
It is welcome news that that licence issuing has been paused
while the agreement is under ministerial review, but in the light
of the widespread recognition that trail hunting is often a
smokescreen for illegal hunting, will the Minister meet me and
other concerned MPs to discuss the permanent revocation of that
agreement, in line with the Government's manifesto ban on trail
hunting?(900618)
The Minister for the Armed Forces ()
I am grateful to my hon. Friend—she and I have campaigned on many
similar issues for quite some time. I would like to make it clear
that no licences to trail hunt on Ministry of Defence land have
been granted for the 2024-25 hunting season. The Department is
considering its position alongside other Government Departments,
and we hope to have an update soon, but I am very happy to meet
my hon. Friend in the meantime.
Mr (Maidenhead) (LD)
T3. Many members of the armed forces in my constituency are
living in sub-par MOD housing that is cold, damp and
mould-ridden. How is the Minister ensuring that all MOD
properties are fit to live in?(900613)
I have been utterly shocked by the state of parts of the housing
estate that we have inherited. Over the last 14 years, the
Government of the time failed to decisively close with this
issue, instead kicking the can down the road or continually
topping up the leaking bucket. We have examples of families
living in accommodation with no running water, with mould and
with pest infestations; there were 53,000 complaints between 2018
and 2023. Having lived in some of that accommodation, I can tell
the House that it is unacceptable. Our armed forces protect the
freedoms we enjoy, and this Government will take action—including
a medium to long-term review—to get after the housing and create
a new armed forces commissioner to improve service life.
(Basingstoke) (Lab)
T10. I am immensely proud of the armed forces, both those serving
and veterans, who live in my constituency, but I do worry for the
future given the recruitment crisis that we inherited from the
previous Government. What steps are this Government taking to
tackle the recruitment crisis, in particular to attract diverse
skills such as in cyber?(900620)
I am grateful for the question, because we know that there is a
recruitment and retention crisis in the UK armed forces. It is
precisely for that reason that the Defence Secretary set out at
the Labour party conference a series of changes, including
scrapping 100 outdated recruitment policies and creating a new
direct entry route for cyber. There is a lot more work to be done
in this area, and the Department will be making further
announcements in due course.
(Leicester South) (Ind)
T4. The 2,000 lb bombs dropped on innocent civilians in Gaza and
Lebanon led to the heinous and unimaginable scenes we saw over
the weekend of newborn babies being killed and young children
being burned alive. These bombs are being dropped by F-35 fighter
jets, and we supply parts for F-35 fighter jets. When will we
stop doing that and adhere to international
conventions?(900614)
We have made decisions on the suspension of arms sales to Israel,
and we have set out the details of those to the House. We are
working, as well as calling, for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza
so that all hostages can get out, all the aid needed by the
Palestinians can be flooded in, and the first steps can be taken
towards the political solution that is ultimately the best
guarantor of two states and a permanent peace in the area.
(Wolverhampton West)
(Lab)
Our first duty as a Government is to keep the nation safe and to
protect our citizens, particularly when we are going through a
period of global strife and instability, with war in Europe and
conflict in the middle east. Although I am aware of our
unshakeable commitment to NATO, will my right hon. Friend please
reassure the House that, when it comes to defence, our
relationship with our European allies has not been adversely
affected by Brexit?
It is the previous Government who have to answer for the impact
of Brexit. As a new Government, we have set out to rebuild
relations with key European allies, especially on defence and
security. Although NATO remains the cornerstone of our European
security, there is an important role for the European Union. My
right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has started discussions
with the European Union, as indeed has the Prime Minister, on how
we can achieve a greater level of co-operation between the EU and
the UK.
Sir (New Forest East) (Con)
T5. I commend the new Veterans Minister for the contact he has
already had with the chairman of the War Widows Association, who
is with us today in the Special Gallery. May I request a meeting
with him, her and me to try to resolve the situation for the last
49 war widows who have so far been excluded from the payment
scheme that we managed to work out for those who unfairly lost
their pensions on remarriage?(900615)
I thank the right hon. Member for bringing that up. Given the
amount of his experience, I would love to sit down with him and
the chair of the War Widows Association to talk this through in
more detail.
(Hemel Hempstead) (Lab)
In May, I was privileged to join a group called Help99 in driving
some pick-up trucks and other military vehicles to Kyiv
for the use of Ukrainian soldiers on the frontline. Will the
Minister meet me to discuss how we can make it easier for such
groups to deliver vehicles, which are so desperately needed?
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and parliamentary colleagues in
all parties for the work they are doing in their constituencies
to support our friends in Ukraine. I would be very happy to meet
him to see what we can do to support their work further, because
we will support Ukraine for as long as it takes.
Mr Speaker
I call the Father of the House.
Sir (Gainsborough) (Con)
T6. In the run-up to the second world war, during an era of
increasing international tensions, the Government opened up many
new RAF airfields, in what was called the expansion programme.
One of those airfields was RAF Scampton. Now that we are no
longer to have illegal migrants there, this matter is sitting in
the Home Office's in-tray: will the MOD work with the Home Office
to ensure that we keep the runway open for future use? It is one
of the best, longest runways in Europe. Who knows—RAF Scampton
might be not just part of the history of the RAF, with the
Dambusters and the Red Arrows, but part of the future of the RAF
and save us once again.(900616)
We will indeed work with the Home Office on the future of RAF
Scampton.
(Kilmarnock and Loudoun)
(Lab)
I concur with the comments regarding the late .
My constituent Hannah was refused entry into the RAF due to a
prior anterior cruciate ligament injury, which is now fully
repaired, recovered and rehabilitated. Will my hon. Friend review
his Department's policy on the rehabilitation both of armed
forces personnel and applicants graded as medically unfit?
In August, medical standards including on ACL injuries were
changed. Decisions will be made on a case-by-case basis, but I
would like to discuss it in more detail in person in due
course.
Sir (New Forest West) (Con)
T7. Does the Secretary of State share my incredulity that he has
not been told the cost of leasing the facilities in the
Chagos?(900617)
I do not think the right hon. Gentleman heard me; I said earlier
that the Foreign Secretary had said the other day that the detail
of the costs and the agreement will be set out properly before
this House when it comes to consider and debate the treaty.
(Plymouth Moor View) (Lab)
Devonport dockyard in Plymouth is where the UK repairs and
maintains our submarine fleet. In future, there will be even more
submarines, and we will need even more infrastructure for that
upkeep, so what conversations is the Secretary of State having
with the Secretaries of State responsible for housing and
transport to deliver that infrastructure to support our increased
submarine programme?
I paid tribute to the previous Government when they put in place
Team Barrow, in recognition of the fact that the future of its
shipyard and submarine building programme was not just a matter
for the Ministry of Defence. I would say the same thing to my
hon. Friend, and I would be pleased to meet him to discuss it
further.
Sir (Wetherby and Easingwold)
(Con)
In light of the latest Hezbollah attack on Israel, will the
Secretary of State assure the House that we will continue to
supply defensive equipment to Israel to help it defend itself
against Iranian proxies?
We have an unshakeable commitment to the right of Israel to
defend itself and we have demonstrated in the past a willingness
to stand with Israel, particularly when it has been under direct
under attack from Iran.
