Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab) (Urgent Question): To ask
the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on
steps being taken to prevent job losses in the UK's rail
manufacturing sector. The Minister of State, Department for
Transport (Huw Merriman) Mr Speaker, before I start, may I thank
you for having me up in your constituency of Chorley over the
Easter holiday? I pass on my deepest condolences to you and your
family for the loss of your...Request free trial
(Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if
he will make a statement on steps being taken to prevent job
losses in the UK's rail manufacturing sector.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport ()
Mr Speaker, before I start, may I thank you for having me up in
your constituency of Chorley over the Easter holiday? I pass on
my deepest condolences to you and your family for the loss of
your father.
I thank the hon. Lady for her urgent question. I am responding on
behalf of the Secretary of State, who will shortly be meeting the
Alstom group chairman and chief executive to discuss a potential
way forward. The Secretary of State will come to the House and
make a statement at the appropriate time, noting the fact that
they are sensitive commercial discussions.
As set out in the comprehensive open letter from the Secretary of
State to the hon. Lady on 29 March, the Government are well aware
that companies such as Alstom and Hitachi face short-term gaps in
their order books. The letter set out clearly that these are
complex problems to which there are not simple solutions, but the
Government have been doing everything they can to support the
workforce over many months, and continue to do so.
While Alstom is currently consulting its unions and employees on
possible job losses, this must be a commercial decision for
Alstom. The Government have been working with the company to
explore options to enable it to continue manufacturing at its
Derby site. We have convened a cross-Whitehall group to advise on
how to support continued production at Derby and how best to
support those workers who are at risk of redundancy. We have held
similar discussions with Hitachi, both in correspondence and face
to face. We remain keen to work with Hitachi as it looks for
commercial solutions to guarantee the long-term sustainable
future of its Newton Aycliffe site. Hitachi is not currently
consulting on any changes to its workforce.
The fact remains that the market for passenger trains is a
competitive one. The Department cannot guarantee orders for
individual manufacturers. Trains are major assets with a lifetime
of 35 to 40 years, so there will naturally be peaks and troughs
in the procurement cycle. Nevertheless, we expect substantial
continued demand for new trains. In recent months, London North
Eastern Railway confirmed an order of 10 new tri-mode trains for
the east coast main line. A tender for new trains for
TransPennine Express was launched in December 2023.
In January this year, I wrote to train manufacturers to outline
the pipeline of current and expected orders for new trains. That
included details of current competitions for Northern,
Southeastern, Chiltern and TransPennine Express, and an expected
procurement by Great Western Railway. The contracts are worth an
estimated £3.6 billion, with more than 2,000 vehicles to be
procured over the coming years. In the meantime, we will continue
to work with UK manufacturers, including Alstom and Hitachi, to
ensure that there is a strong and sustainable future for the rail
industry.
Louise Haigh
May I add my personal condolences to you, Mr Speaker, for the
loss of your great father? He was a fine man and a great champion
for Warrington and for workers' rights.
Britain's rail manufacturing is in crisis. Two of our largest
train manufacturers have warned that their very presence in this
country is at risk. Alstom, in Derby, is staring down the barrel
of 1,300 job losses, and Hitachi, in Newton Aycliffe, another
700. In their supply chains, it is more than 16,000 jobs. Alstom
has been making trains in Derby for 147 years, but both Alstom
and Hitachi are clear that their uncertain future is thanks to
this Government's inaction. Alstom's managing director has said
that “continued delay” in providing “certainty and clarity” from
the Transport Secretary is to blame.
The fact is that the Secretary of State has known about this
problem for months. I first raised Hitachi's concerns with him in
this House more than a year ago. Both manufacturers have said
that the situation could be rectified by amending their order
schedules for a small number of existing, privately financed
trains, and we understand that the Transport Secretary has been
privately promising them action on that for months. But crucial
deadlines have been missed, avoidable job losses have already
been made and local businesses have already been forced to
close.
The Minister dismisses people's livelihoods as “peaks and
troughs”. In his letter to me of 29 March, the Transport
Secretary, as usual, ducked all responsibility. He claimed that
he has no influence over procurement contracts, yet his
Department has varied contracts in the past. He claimed that this
is nothing to do with his mismanagement of HS2, but both
struggling manufacturers claim otherwise. He claimed that he is
providing certainty for the industry, yet he is refusing to bring
forward his long-delayed rail reforms, or set out a rolling stock
strategy for the industry.
Britain was the country that created the railways, but that
legacy is being trashed by a Conservative Government content to
oversee its managed decline. Will the Minister and the Secretary
of State finally take responsibility, put aside their ideological
opposition to supporting British business, and finally step up
for the people of Derby and Newton Aycliffe and for Britain's
railways?
Huw Merriman
The hon. Lady asks whether the Secretary of State will take
responsibility and work on this matter. He is doing that right
now. He is about to start a meeting with the chief executive and
chairman. And that is not the first meeting: he has held eight
meetings with Alstom and eight with Hitachi to find solutions.
Our officials in the Department for Transport have worked
incredibly hard, as has everybody in the whole Derby family—the
train operator, the unions that I have met and the workforce. We
are all rowing together to try to find a solution.
I have to say that it does not help to see this cause being used
almost like a political football. As an example, I did not use
the expression “peaks and troughs” when it came to dealing with
individuals. I said that the procurement cycle leads to that. My
words will be clear in Hansard, and I resent having them
misinterpreted, because it impacts on people and their feelings.
I find it quite irresponsible of the Opposition to do that.
Another example of getting the facts completely wrong is the
continued mention of HS2. Let me be clear: the order for HS2 was
for 54 trains. That order remains at 54 trains, because they were
always for phase 1, which is going ahead. The schedule remains
the same and the number of trains remains the same, so let us
deal with the facts rather than the fiction and scaremongering
that I hear so often.
When it comes to facts, let me say that three of the four train
manufacturers we are proud to have in this country have been
building their plant here since 2010, under this Conservative
Government. No doubt they decided to do so because we have
commissioned 8,000 new rolling stock vehicles since 2012. The
average age of rolling stock was 21 years back in 2016; it is now
under 17 years, because we are investing in rolling stock, and
there will be more orders. None the less, it is a complex legal
solution that requires sensible minds, and I am very proud that
the Secretary of State is leading on that endeavour.
Mr Speaker
I call the Chair of the Transport Committee.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
I am pleased that the Secretary of State and the Minister are
taking charge of negotiations with Alstom, Hitachi and others. I
appreciate that as commercially sensitive discussions are
ongoing, the Minister is constrained in what he can say, but they
need to be resolved soon. The wider issue is the peaks and
troughs not just in rolling stock procurement, but in railway
industry investment more generally. How does the Minister believe
Great British Railways and wider rail reform will help to smooth
out the peaks and troughs in the longer term?
Huw Merriman
I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for his work. The
Committee as a whole has looked at this issue and really probed
for solutions. On the GBR point, it is also providing the body of
pre-legislative scrutiny of rail reform, and I thank my hon.
Friend and his Committee for their work in that endeavour. He is
absolutely right that a more holistic approach to the railway, in
which track and train are integrated, will help us to make
further decisions into the future and give more certainty with
regard to orders. None the less, I have set out the orders that
have been taken over the preceding years. The order book is
healthy and we will look to get the tenders out this year and
next for the train operators that I have mentioned.
Mr Speaker
I call the SNP spokesperson.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
My condolences to you and your family, Mr Speaker, on the loss of
your father.
Clearly, the news coming out of Derby about the precarious nature
of Alstom is grim, not just for the workers and the wider economy
of Derby, but for everyone involved in the supply chain across
the country, including 24,000 rail supply jobs in Scotland. The
fact is that this was predicted; we have all known about it for
months. These are skilled, well-paying jobs of the type that we
are continually told the UK is in the market for.
Does the Minister accept that the stop-start procurement of new
rolling stock is a direct result of the fragmented and
disconnected railway system that has placed financialisaton and
the Treasury's miserly attitude to investment above rail's key
role in a decarbonised 21st-century society? Why are rolling
stock leasing companies ruling the roost rather than
straightforward procurement? How is it possible that the island
that invented the modern railway—the 200th anniversary of the
Stockton and Darlington railway is next year—could have next to
zero train production capacity within a matter of months? We need
a proper rail strategy and integration; when will that rail
reform be put before the House?
Huw Merriman
Again, let us look at the facts. Since 2012, 8,000 new rolling
stock vehicles have been manufactured—that is out of a total
fleet of 15,600, so it is a relatively young fleet. Taking into
account the fact that the fleet tends to last 35 to 40 years, and
that it now has an average of 17 years' service, I hope that the
hon. Gentleman will see that there has been a substantial
investment in rolling stock from the Government—the UK
taxpayer—and from private train operators.
The hon. Gentleman asks when the legislation for rail reform will
be brought forward. I am very keen for that to happen, and it is
on its journey right now. The Transport Committee, of which he is
a leading member, is providing the pre-legislative scrutiny. I
very much hope that the Committee will finish its work in time
for the summer recess, giving us two months to respond, and that
there will be cross-party support in both Houses for what is I
believe is sensible legislation that will allow us to deliver
rail reform.
Mrs Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)
Although Labour is playing party politics on this issue, it is
really important for Derby and Derbyshire, including for the
workers at Alstom and in the supply chain that feeds into it.
Will the Minister confirm that Conservative Members of Parliament
have been working with the Secretary of State over the whole
period, and that he has been working with Alstom for many, many
months to get this right?
Huw Merriman
I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Mid Derbyshire (Mrs
Derby North (Amanda
Solloway) for the amount of work that they have put in to press
us, privately but firmly, to ensure that we are working on this
issue, given their concern as constituency MPs. I could not
credit them enough for the amount of work that has gone in on
their side, and for doing it sensibly—and that includes those in
Derby council, to whom we are grateful. I believe that this is
the way to approach the matter. The number of meetings that we
have had, the cross-departmental taskforce that is in place and
the sheer number of hours that the officials have put in have all
led us to a point where we very much hope to be able to provide a
solution. The matter is complex—there are legal challenges and
these types of contracts often end up in litigation, so we have
to be careful with the process—but we are keen to find that
solution. I thank my hon. Friends for their work.
Dame Margaret Beckett (Derby South) (Lab)
I was disappointed and sorry to hear what the hon. Member for Mid
Derbyshire (Mrs Latham) just said, because, as she knows
perfectly well, there has been a substantial amount of
cross-party working on this issue over many months and years.
Given that the factory is in my constituency, I find it a little
disappointing that, although I am told that there have been many
meetings between the Secretary of State and local Conservative
members, at no point have he or his office chosen to involve
me.
However, that does not matter at all; what really matters—and
what I find most difficult about this whole issue—is that, over
the years that I have been in this House, we have had so many of
these conversations about failing industries. We ask what are the
prospects for the future, and there is a struggle and, as always,
an argument between those who want to look to the long term and
those who want short-term financial savings. This is not an
industry in which that is the problem. In the longer term, there
will be millions of pounds' worth of orders for rolling stock,
because rolling stock renewal is needed right across the country,
as everybody in the rail industry is aware. It is an industry
with prospects and an ongoing, realistic vision of secure,
high-value and high-reward jobs, yet one in which Government
inaction is, I am afraid, putting those jobs at risk,
particularly, as was said moments ago on both sides of the House,
in the supply chain.
Huw Merriman
I thank the right hon. Member for the points she has raised. The
discussions have been cross-party: the leader of Derby council
has worked very closely with the Department to try to broker a
solution. I will take away her point about meetings; I do not
have that information to hand, but I will ensure she gets the
meeting she has asked for.
The point I was making was that the comments from the Labour
Front Bench do not help matters at all. This is a sensitive,
commercially and legally challenging situation that we are trying
to find a way through. We cannot find contracts just for one
train manufacturer: we have four, and it has to be an open
process, otherwise the matter ends up in court. Despite that, we
are doing everything we can to find the right orders for those
train manufacturers. As well as the letter I have written to all
of the manufacturers, specifying the tender pipeline that is to
come, the Secretary of State has written to all the entities that
finance train operators, making the point that they should bring
forward matters that they can see. That will help with
refurbishment, as well as new rolling stock.
Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)
I thank the Rail Minister for the huge levels of rail investment
going into my constituency. As he knows, alongside my hon.
Friends the Members for Dewsbury (Mark Eastwood) and for
Penistone and Stocksbridge (Miriam Cates), we secured £48 million
of levelling-up cash for upgrades on the Penistone line, with
stations at Honley and Brockholes in my constituency. I thank the
Rail Minister for visiting Huddersfield railway station last
year, and I am pleased to report that a major upgrade, which is
part of the £11 billion trans-Pennine route upgrade, is under way
at that station. Once that is complete, there will be major
upgrades to Slaithwaite and Marsden stations, including disabled
access. Rail investment is being delivered to my wonderful part
of West Yorkshire.
Huw Merriman
I thank my hon. Friend; he is a champion of the railway, and it
was an absolute delight to visit him at Huddersfield station and
talk about some of those projects. Of course, his point is
completely relevant to the matter before us. The trans-Pennine
route upgrade, for which there will be more Government investment
than there was for the entirety of Crossrail, allows us to put an
order in for TransPennine Express trains, so there will be more
trains manufactured as well as better stations, longer platforms
and more resilience. [Interruption.] I thank that team, which is
doing a brilliant job, which The Sunday Times has highlighted.
Rather than chuntering, it would be nice if the Opposition
thanked those who deliver railway projects to time and on
budget.
Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)
My condolences on your loss, Mr Speaker. I thank you on behalf of
the workforce for granting this urgent question, because the
situation is becoming critical.
My union, Unite, tells me that there are over 900 people employed
on temporary contracts at Hitachi in Newton Aycliffe and at
Alstom in Derby whose jobs are already at risk. This is before
any formal redundancies occur; Unite believes that that could
happen as soon as June. I am well aware that the Minister knows
that the industry needs a steady stream of orders to sustain
train manufacturing here in the UK and preserve those vital jobs
in areas such as County Durham, where we do not have an abundance
of skilled employment, so in all honesty I earnestly ask the
Minister to use his good offices to persuade the Secretary of
State to intervene urgently and ensure a bright future for this
vital UK train manufacturing industry.
Huw Merriman
I certainly take that point from my good friend. The hon. Member
has worked tirelessly for the rail workforce, and I know that he
means everything he says with passion and conviction. I have
talked about the situation being a complex one from a legal
perspective, and I would take him back to the contract award for
HS2, which went to Alstom and Hitachi. That was challenged in
court by Siemens; the Department succeeded on every single point,
but that just shows how careful we have to be from a legal
perspective during the tendering process, because it will end up
in litigation. The worst thing would be to hand out contracts in
a manner that is not legally fair and then find that they are
being unpicked, which brings fresh uncertainty. Instead, we are
looking at the entire order book to see where we can bring
matters forward in the pipeline—matters that Alstom may be
working on already. Where it is the fair and right thing to do,
we are looking to see whether we can bring those contract orders
forward in the pipeline.
Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)
The situation at Alstom is of great concern to a number of my
constituents who work there. However, probably even more of my
constituents work in the supply chain, so will my hon. Friend
reassure me and my constituents that whatever the outcome of
today's discussions, that supply chain will not be forgotten?
Huw Merriman
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are talking not just about
the jobs at the manufacturing plant in Derby, but about all the
jobs throughout the supply chain. I work really closely with the
supply chain and its trade representatives—the Railway Industry
Association and Railfuture—and I am keen to continue to do so.
Our work and our endeavour is to try to find a solution, not just
for the workforce in Derby working directly for Alstom, but for
those who are temporarily employed at Alstom and for the entire
supply chain. That is why the Secretary of State is meeting
Alstom right now, so that we can try to find a solution for them
all.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
The Government's inaction in signing off new orders for trains is
now threatening hundreds of jobs in County Durham and wiping
millions of pounds off the value of rail manufacturing companies.
Inadequate supply to our rail infrastructure will have a big
impact on decarbonising the UK transport system. Is the Minister
aware of that, and Government doing in the long term our rail infrastructure?
Huw Merriman
Thanks to the UK taxpayer, the Government have invested over £100
billion in the railways, and a lot of that investment has gone
through to rolling stock. As I have mentioned, the rolling stock
is now on average under 17 years old, with a life cycle that goes
to 35 to 40 years. I will give the hon. Lady a good example of
where the future is bright: in the area of innovation and
technology. Great Western has just completed a battery trial for
a train that has covered 86 miles, with stops, on just one single
charge. My hope is that as well as new orders for trains, we will
find new solutions for manufacturing rolling stock that is
greener than it is right now.
Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con)
My condolences to you, Mr Speaker.
Many of my constituents are involved in rail manufacturing, both
at Hitachi and in the wider supply chain, and are genuinely
concerned about the situation. Can my hon. Friend reassure me and
my constituents that this situation is getting the full attention
of the Secretary of State, and can he outline to the House why
the issue is not as simple as the stroke of a pen, as alleged by
the Labour party?
Huw Merriman
I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. He is absolutely right;
this is a complex matter, and it is important that we get it
right. We are working with Alstom, with the council, and with all
other parties.
I should just correct the record: I am very happy to take up this
issue with the right hon. Member for Derby South (Dame Margaret
Beckett), but my understanding is that she met the Secretary of
State for an hour on 25 March, which she said she had not.
Dame Margaret Beckett
indicated assent.
Huw Merriman
That is correct—good. I am glad I have got that on the
record.
My hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) is
absolutely right. This matter is complex and challenging, but I
can tell you, Mr Speaker, and the House that the Secretary of
State is working at full pelt on this matter with Alstom. I am
hopeful that a solution will be found that will demonstrate all
of that hard work.
Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
Derby's Litchurch Lane is unique—the only site in the UK that
designs, develops, builds and tests trains. As has already been
acknowledged, the Alstom factory is a very significant employer,
but it also supports thousands of good supply-chain jobs,
particularly in Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire. Frankly, this
Government will never be forgiven if that factory is allowed to
close due to an entirely avoidable gap in orders. The Minister
says that this matter is complex, but my question is simple: when
does the Department for Transport intend to issue the invitations
to tender for the promised new train fleets for Chiltern,
Northern and Southeastern?
Huw Merriman
The answer is over the course of this year and next year for all
of the train manufacturers that the hon. Lady has mentioned. I
well remember the visit that both she and I made to the Alstom
site with the Transport Committee. As she rightly says, it is a
fantastic site, which is why we are working to find a solution. I
am certainly encouraged by the conversations that have taken
place. We know that everyone wants to find that solution—the
Government certainly do—but the hon. Lady will know from all her
work on the Transport Committee that legal challenges have to be
dealt with in the correct manner. This matter is very sensitive,
and it is market sensitive as well, so finding a way through
which provides certainty and does not get unpicked is absolutely
the right thing for us to do, and that is what we are doing right
now.
Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)
The threat to the Alstom factory in Derby is of great concern to
the employees in Amber Valley and those employed by the supply
chain. Their mood is not helped by the fact that this appears to
be a problem not with the quality of the trains, or even with
their price, but with compliance with procurement rules that we
ourselves put in place only a year or so ago. If it comes down to
a choice between having all the i's dotted and t's crossed, or
having that factory saved for the long term, can I urge the
Minister to take a risk on the contract, sort that out later and
save the factory, rather than prioritising the contract and risk
losing the factory?
Huw Merriman
As my hon. Friend has described, this is a careful balance. I
reiterate that if we were to award contracts outside of the usual
process, other workforces would also be impacted, such as those
in Newport, in Newton Aycliffe and in the Hull area. We have to
take into account the whole workforce, as well as fair process on
the contract. However, as he mentions, trains are being
manufactured right now and rolling off the production line up in
Derby—South Western trains and East Midlands trains—and they are
good-quality trains. As I have said, the challenge is that we
have produced a lot of trains over the years, and I really want
to help those train manufacturers to export more, because that
will fill up the order books so that they are not reliant only on
the domestic market. As it gets fresher and younger, in rolling
stock years, we need to find a solution outside this country.
Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)
I offer my condolences to you, Mr Speaker.
The Minister says this is a complex issue, but is it not rather
simple? These companies will not be around to enjoy the sort of
exporting opportunities he talks about if they do not sustain. On
his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South
(Lilian Greenwood), can he just apply his mind to what he said
about the invitations to tender? If it is going to take that long
to issue those tenders, these companies will not be around. It is
not about them not competing; it is about their being able to
compete and to be here. Can he not recognise that it is the
constant chopping and changing in procurement that has landed the
rail industry in this terrible situation?
Huw Merriman
I do not accept that. When I met the train manufacturers earlier
this year, they said they wanted longer-term certainty, and the
reason for setting out what is coming up next is to give them
that certainly. Of course, train manufacturing is going on right
now. For example, we have just seen the award to CAF for the 10
LNER tri-mode trains, so there is manufacturing and contracts are
being awarded. I know I am repeating myself, but as the train
rolling stock gets younger in age—it has a life of 35 to 40
years, and its average age is now under 17 years—by definition
fewer orders tend to go through. However, it is important to have
a future pipeline, which is why I mentioned the orders going to
tender for this year and next.
Matt Vickers (Stockton South) (Con)
Hitachi provides opportunities and high-skilled jobs, benefiting
people right across the north-east, including a number in my
constituency. Can my hon. Friend confirm that he will continue to
look at every possible option to protect these jobs and the
north-east's incredible manufacturing capabilities?
Huw Merriman
Yes, indeed. The team at Hitachi as well as Alstom will of course
be working on the HS2 tender for 54 trains that will be coming
their way. I am very keen to meet them, and I met Hitachi
yesterday—albeit a different arm that is more on the signalling
side. I am keen to work with the private sector. We are very
proud of the train manufacturers we have in this country, and we
want to ensure that they sustain and continue to get contracts,
and not only from this country but, as I have mentioned, for
exports. I really want to see exports, which is why I tend to go
abroad to help champion exports in such markets.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
In 1823, Robert Stephenson and Company set up the world's first
locomotive factory in my constituency. Is the Conservative idea
of an anniversary present to the north-east to end 200 years of
railway manufacturing and innovation? The Minister has said this
is complex and challenging, but for the sake of Hitachi workers
and for our entire region, will he commit to the future of
railway manufacturing in the north-east?
Huw Merriman
These are private sector companies. They of course rely on
Government-funded contracts, but ultimately they are private
sector companies, and this is a matter for them. Our job is to
support them, and I have described the order book we have put
through since 2012. Of course, any Government or Government in
waiting actually have to follow the correct process with our
officials and to do things properly, and it is rather telling
that the Opposition do not seem to know how proper governance
operates. I would just remind the hon. Member that, since 2010,
three of our four train manufacturers have built their plants
under a Conservative Government, because they know that this
Government are good for business and invest in the railways, as
the £100 billion invested since 2010 demonstrates.
Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)
My constituency incorporates the Newton Aycliffe Hitachi factory.
As has been mentioned, it is the home of the railways—200 years
ago, the first train went on the line just next to the site of
the Hitachi factory. We are founded in railways, we want to be in
railways, and we always will be in railways. However, the
Opposition are treating this as a political football, as the hon.
Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) has just
done. Everybody is saying that this is so simple and can be done
at the stroke of a pen. It could not be done at the stroke of a
pen when Nexus had the same situation in Newcastle.
[Interruption.] No, it was not, and the Opposition had the pen
then.
Right here and right now, I am very concerned about what is
happening with Hitachi, as I obviously am about Alstom and the
supply chains. I have met the unions—I have met Unite several
times—and I will continue to do so. It is important that we are
all engaged in this properly, and confidentially where
appropriate. I have been completely irritated by the number of
times the Opposition have said that the Government are not
engaged. For most of the time I have been engaging
confidentially, as Hitachi has asked. Everybody, including the
Prime Minister, has been to Hitachi to understand what exactly
the situation is. What we need now is for the unions to be
engaged and for Hitachi to use all its innovation and skills. Can
I ask the Minister to ensure that he is fully engaged, and will
he explain to the Opposition why, if this was so easy, we would
not just do it?
Huw Merriman
I thank my hon. Friend because—as he puts it himself, but he is
being too modest—he is working with us constantly to ensure that
Hitachi's concerns are addressed. We have met Hitachi a number of
times. We have great faith in its leadership, and we work closely
with them. It is not consulting on any changes to the workforce
at the moment. As I have mentioned, it has a share in the order
for the 54 HS2 trains. He is absolutely right that the way we
will fix these issues is to provide certainty through the tenders
coming forward, to continue to invest, to try to get more exports
for these train operations, and to work together in a collegiate
way, not with scare stories. That is something I am determined to
do, and I thank him for the work he does to that end.
Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
This is political, because this Government have got form in
failing industry in the north-east. They abandoned primary steel
making on Teesside, they failed to back local investors in the
Sirius mine and they allowed the world-renowned Cleveland Bridge
& Engineering Co. to collapse, despite promises to save it.
Now they are at it again, and this time it will affect countless
people from my constituency, which is the home of the first
passenger railway. In a statement made just an hour ago, Hitachi
has said it wants to continue to explore solutions so that the
skills and investment it has in the region are retained. There is
no doubt that these are at considerable risk. Is the Minister
really prepared to fail Hitachi, and provide yet another example
of how the Tories have abandoned the north-east?
Huw Merriman
The hon. Member's argument is slightly punctured by the fact that
Hitachi built its plant after the Conservative Government came to
power, because it understands that we support businesses, attract
businesses and want them to succeed not only with domestic
orders, but with export orders. To say that we are abandoning it,
when I have just described how we have had 8,000 new rolling
stock vehicles produced since 2012 and the average age has gone
down from 21 years to 16.8 years, rather demonstrates that he
does not know what he is talking about.
Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right that this is a complex
scenario, but there really is no need for us to be in one of the
troughs in the supply chain at the moment. Chiltern Railways has
massive overcrowding because its stock is the oldest fleet, and
it is desperate for more trains on the network. We also have East
West Rail about to launch with borrowed diesel trains, rather
than the new hybrids or hydrogen trains that are fit for the
modern age. As my hon. Friend looks at what can be brought
forward, will he prioritise Chiltern and prioritise getting the
trains that people want to see on East West Rail?
Huw Merriman
I know that my hon. Friend, who is another excellent member of
the Transport Committee, has written to the Secretary of State,
and we are lining up a meeting to discuss Chiltern's rolling
stock. He knows I am very keen to find a solution with some
rolling stock that is available, and I am looking to take that
forward. He asked about the situation with East West Rail. The
consultation will go forward this summer. I have referred to the
testing of a battery-powered train that went for 86 miles, and I
believe the route from Oxford to Cambridge is 84 miles, which
suggests that could be an answer to the point he rightly
makes.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
I have been chair of the all-party group on manufacturing for
some time, I worked in manufacturing at one stage, and I
represent the fine manufacturing town of Huddersfield—despite
other claims in this House, I am the Member of Parliament for
Huddersfield. But this is about job losses and is the Minister
aware that under this Government, since 2010, the manufacturing
sector in our country has been shrinking and shrinking? Now, less
than 10% of people in this country make anything. That is a dire
situation, and we see it not only in rail but in defence. The
town I represent makes the engines for tanks, guns, ships and all
of that sort of stuff, but they do not get the orders in time.
The fact of the matter is that all our wonderful manufacturing
towns and cities are in peril under this Government. What is the
Minister going to do about it?
Huw Merriman
That is the same Huddersfield that I visited with the team from
the trans-Pennine route upgrade. We are investing between £9
billion and £11.5 billion in upgrading that route, which not only
will make it better for rail passengers, but will provide
thousands of jobs, the bulk of them from the local workforce, of
which the trans-Pennine route upgrade team is very proud. That
rather demonstrates that what the hon. Member has just stated is
not backed up by the facts.
Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab)
During the pandemic the Government rightly stepped in to support
train operating companies through huge subsidy, which essentially
meant subsidising the profits of those companies. The Minister
will also know that since British Rail was privatised, the
ROSCOs—rolling stock companies—have been highly profitable and
lucrative businesses, in my view with very little value for the
taxpayer whatsoever. Will the Minister therefore consider two
things: first, in this situation with Hitachi and Alstom,
seriously consider direct Government intervention to stop these
companies going to the wall before they can get the next orders
in; and secondly, urgently convene a meeting of local businesses
in both those areas with all the rail unions, from Unite to the
Transport Salaried Staffs Association, ASLEF, and the National
Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, bringing them
together to discuss how we jointly work together to make sure
that our brilliant and long-held and highly skilled workforce is
not just thrown on the scrapheap for decades to come?
Huw Merriman
A lot of the finance I talked about and the orders that have been
brought forward, which is why we have a relatively young fleet,
are the result of train operators being able to use their own
balance sheets in order to invest. Rail finances are back to only
about 80% of where they were pre-covid because of changes in
working patterns; that has been more of a challenge, which is why
the Government and the taxpayer take on more of the burden. On
meetings with the unions, I should reference the meeting I had
with union representatives from Alstom and the workforce, who
were superb. They wanted to do their business in a sensible, calm
way while also challenging, and rightly so. That provides us with
the motivation to try to intervene and deliver a solution, and
that is what the Secretary of State is doing right now.
Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)
The potential loss of jobs at Hitachi will hit the north-east
economy as a whole, and it is vital that we maintain rail
manufacturing capability there. What are the Government going to
do to ensure that we do not lose that facility because of a gap
in orders? What will they do to ensure that does not happen and
to save those jobs?
Huw Merriman
It is important to note that Hitachi is not currently consulting
on any changes in the workforce, but it is of course concerned
and it speaks to hon. Members in this place to put those concerns
across, and I welcome that approach. Where train operators have
rolling stock that is older and needs renewing, we are putting
them out to market—those operators are TransPennine, Northern,
Southeastern and Chiltern. Bringing those orders through will
assist, but I come back to the export part of this: if our fleet
is getting younger, meaning there will not be as many orders, we
really need to see our four great manufacturers being able to
export more abroad to deliver for UK plc.
Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)
What further discussions are the Minister and Secretary of State
going to have with the manufacturing and rail unions on this
matter?
Huw Merriman
As I have already stated, I have met the Alstom unions myself—I
am always very happy to meet the unions, as indeed is necessary.
At the moment, however, our work is with Derby City Council and,
more importantly, with Alstom, which ultimately will make the
decision. It is a private operator and it will be a decision for
Alstom, but we want to show what we can do to help with orders
and other assistance. We have been working across Government to
provide that reassurance so that we can work towards Alstom not
only keeping the plant but investing further in it and bringing
more of its enterprise into the UK.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his answers; I do not think anybody in
the House could doubt his commitment or that of the Government to
improving things, and we thank them for that. What is the
Government's strategy for supporting manufacturing companies
throughout the United Kingdom to make improvements to attract
business and sustain contracts? Will the Government commit to
ensuring that all Government contracts are fulfilled with
British-manufactured products as standard, in order to give
confidence to investment in British manufacturing?
Huw Merriman
I thank the hon. Member, who always puts his points with great
kindness and consideration—as a result, he makes better points
than some that get chucked around here. I can assure him that I
have written to the train manufacturers, met with them and
listened to them, and they have said that they want certainty and
to know what the pipeline is. We have been working with the
Treasury to bring that pipeline forward. The Secretary of State's
letter adds another angle: what we are doing there is writing to
the ROSCOs to finance train refurbishments and see if those can
be brought forward. So we are doing everything we can from our
side—within the difficult legal and commercial situation we find
ourselves in—to do things correctly, to bring those orders
through, and to give more certainty so that those companies will
continue to invest in the UK.
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