The following Statement was made in the House of Commons on Monday
5 February. “Today, and in British Sign Language for those watching
on Parliament Live, I am delighted to deliver on the Government’s
commitment to transform the everyday lives of disabled people
across the country for the better. We as a Government are working
to make this country the most accessible place in the world for
disabled people to live, work and thrive, and today I am proud to
announce...Request free trial
The following Statement was made in the House of Commons on
Monday 5 February.
“Today, and in British Sign Language for those watching on
Parliament Live, I am delighted to deliver on the Government’s
commitment to transform the everyday lives of disabled people
across the country for the better. We as a Government are working
to make this country the most accessible place in the world for
disabled people to live, work and thrive, and today I am proud to
announce another important milestone: the publication of the
disability action plan, which will actively make a difference to
disabled people’s daily lives.
In December 2022 my predecessor, my honourable friend the Member
for Corby, , announced the intention to develop a new
disability action plan to set out the practical, immediate
actions that Ministers across government will take to improve
disabled people’s daily lives. Following that, my department and
the Disability Unit did a huge amount of work, and I thank
everyone involved. Since coming into the role I have spent time
listening, engaging and continuing to ensure that the voices of
disabled people are properly heard, as that is an important
priority for the Government. That is why in July 2023 we
consulted on the draft disability action plan, setting out a
range of proposals where we felt we could take immediate action
or lay the foundations for longer-term change. We rightly wanted
to give everyone, and most importantly disabled people, disabled
people’s organisations and other key charities and stakeholders,
the chance to have their say on the draft plan.
The consultation ran for 12 weeks and I am immensely grateful to
every single person who took the time to respond. In the
consultation we set out 12 areas for action. Each area proposed
how the Disability Unit, together with my department, other
government departments and partners, would take action to drive
improvements in those areas. Since the consultation closed in
October, we have been carefully working through more than 1,300
responses, which pleasingly showed broad support for almost all
our proposals. We have used these responses, along with feedback
from a series of events and discussions during the consultation
period, to finalise the proposals, adding a number of new
measures to respond specifically to these consultation findings.
An independent analysis of the consultation findings will be
published on GOV.UK today alongside the final plan when I
conclude my Statement.
The disability action plan we are publishing today sets out 32
practical actions, which I will lead across government to take
forward over the next 12 months with disabled people, disabled
people’s organisations, other government departments and public
service providers to improve the everyday lives of disabled
people. These actions sit across 14 different areas, aiming to:
better support disabled people who want to be elected to public
office; include disabled people’s needs more effectively in
emergency and resilience planning; include disabled people’s
needs in climate-related policies; improve information and
outcomes for families in which someone is or becomes disabled;
make playgrounds more accessible for everybody; help our
businesses of all sizes and sectors to understand the needs of,
and deliver improvements for, disabled people; explore if the UK
could host the Special Olympics world summer games in 2031;
improve support for people who have guide or assistance dogs;
help the Government to measure how effective their policies and
services are for disabled people; research issues facing disabled
people in the future so the that Government can be more proactive
in addressing them; make government publications and
communications more accessible; improve understanding of the cost
of living for disabled people; promote better understanding
across government of the United Nations convention on the rights
of persons with disabilities; and monitor and report progress of
the disability action plan. I can confirm that we will provide
Parliament with updates on our progress in delivering against
these actions in the plan in both six and 12 months’ time.
The disability action plan will be taken forward in parallel with
the national disability strategy. Published in 2021, this wider
strategy sets out the long-term vision to transform disabled
people’s lives for the better. A Written Ministerial Statement to
Parliament on 18 September 2023 provided an update on progress on
those commitments. Taken together, the disability action plan and
the national disability strategy demonstrate this Government’s
clear focus on improving disabled people’s daily lives in the
here and now, and in the years to come.
As well as the disability action plan and the national disability
strategy, the Government are already delivering significant work
in areas that disabled people have told us are a priority,
including reforms to employment and welfare through Transforming
Support, the health and disability White Paper, and the back to
work plan, and improving health and social care through the
People at the Heart of Care White Paper. Further ongoing work by
departments includes cost of living support through Help for
Households, as well as the SEND and alternative provision
improvement plan.
Today’s new disability action plan is another vital pillar in
improving disabled people’s everyday lives. Working with disabled
people and their representative organisations, and with my
colleagues across government in my roles as lead for the
disability unit and chair of the cross-government ministerial
disability champions, we will take immediate action now and in
the coming months to achieve real, tangible improvements for
disabled people, to help to deliver on their needs and to change
disabled people’s daily lives for the better.
I commend this Statement to the House.”
7.54pm
(Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Government for advance sight of the
Statement, which came out yesterday. This is the latest in a
series of moves on the part of the Government designed to improve
the position of disabled people and to tackle societal barriers.
I am sorry to say that I think disabled people would be the first
to say that the track record so far does not inspire
confidence.
First, there was the National Disability Strategy, which was
announced in the 2019 Queen’s Speech but did not appear until 28
July 2021. It was then held up in a lengthy court case brought by
disabled people who disputed the legality of the consultation
process. Then came the health and disability White Paper, which
set out plans to reform employment support and disability
benefits. The centrepiece of that was the proposal to scrap the
work capability assessment, but that has left many disabled
people concerned that the benefits system will rely solely on the
flawed PIP assessment process.
Now, we have the Disability Action Plan. There are some positives
in the plan. It attempts to address some of the well-known
barriers disabled people continue to face, through measures such
as tackling guide dog refusals, raising the profile of assistive
technology and increasing support for disabled people to take
part in politics. However, it is impossible to ignore the very
large hole at the centre of the action plan: there is little or
nothing to address the top concern facing many disabled people at
the moment—the cost of living crisis.
The Government know this is an issue, because paragraph 5.12 of
the plan starts by saying:
“Another theme which ran through responses to the consultation
was the long-term impact of the rising cost of living on disabled
people, with respondents calling for greater support for disabled
people. Research has shown that disabled people are significantly
affected by rising costs”.
When the Government went out to consultation, the preliminary
response of the RNIB was to say that
“it’s disappointing there’s no mention of any support measures to
address the rising cost of living”.
It is still an issue today. Energy bills are still high, making
life very expensive if people rely on specialist medical
equipment, or need to heat their home more than the average
household. As Scope has calculated, on average, disabled
households face extra costs of £975 per month to have the same
standard of living as non-disabled households.
If the Government want to know how things are for disabled people
at the moment, they need look only as far as the document Below
Average Resources, published on 18 January. This was the very
interesting update on the work the DWP is doing to look at
developing a new poverty measure, named “below average
resources”, or BAR. It compares the impact of measuring resources
versus measuring income. It told us something quite interesting
along the way about the position of disabled people. It says that
in the financial year ending 2022,
“30% of individuals in families with a disabled person were in
low resources, compared to 27% in low income. Of individuals in
families without a disabled person 17% were in low resources in
FYE 2022 compared to 19% in low income”.
That is quite a big gap by anybody’s measure.
However, the only commitment on this matter I could find in the
action plan was action 30, which says that the disability
unit
“will continue to engage across Government to highlight concerns
related to disabled people and the cost of living, sharing
insights from the Disability Action Plan consultation findings,
stakeholder engagement and our broader disabled people’s
experience panels”.
Does the Minister think that is enough on the single biggest
issue facing so many disabled people right now?
There is also nothing in the plan on another challenge which is
actually caused by the Government itself—the fact that our
current social security system puts disabled people through
multiple upsetting and dehumanising assessments. Too often, they
are denied their legal entitlements unless they have the strength
and support to go through the appeals process.
Let us look at the figures. Claimants who are turned down for PIP
are not allowed to appeal until they have first been through the
mandatory reconsideration of their claim by DWP officials, which,
as of last October, was taking an average of 36 days. Last year,
only 11% of claimants were successful. They are forced to go
through this extra gateway and only 11% get through it. Only then
can they go to a tribunal. But if they go to a tribunal, nearly
80% are awarded their enhancement. At this point, normally the
Minister will say, “Ah, yes, but it is all new information”. In
fact, in 2023, 55% of cases that had their decision overturned
after a tribunal hearing listed
“Reached a different conclusion on substantially the same
facts”
as the summary reason for the change in decision. Why is there
nothing in the action plan about ensuring that DWP gets more
decisions right first time?
Without addressing the fundamental problems, the actions today
risk feeling like tinkering around the edges. Despite all the
consultation, there is not enough action to deal with the major
challenges faced by disabled people today. I think the Minister
probably knows this, because the action plan says, at paragraph
4.2, that:
“Many respondents criticised the short-term focus of the plan,
highlighting the need for longer term action”.
Does the Minister think the Government responded sufficiently to
that critique? I look forward to his reply.
(LD)
My Lords, I declare an interest as vice-president of the Local
Government Association. In that capacity, I am currently chairing
the LGA disability forum for council officers and for
members.
I am grateful to follow on from the noble Baroness, Lady
Sherlock, partly because she summarises the issues about benefits
so well. It also means that I do not have to say them again,
because I completely agree with her concerns and her
questions.
I am going to pick three or four things from the areas for action
that give me real cause for concern that this new plan does not
recognise the mess that the Government have got themselves into
in the past. I want to start with the support for disabled people
who want to be elected to public office. It says on page 15 of
the Disability Action Planthat the coalition Government
“provided some financial support in the past, such as the Access
to Elected Office Fund, which ran between 2012 and 2015”.
I wonder why it stopped in 2015. Who cancelled it? It was created
by my noble friend Lady Featherstone when she was a Minister in
the other place. It was cut the moment that we left government.
The onus was put on political parties to provide it. That may be
fine if you are the Conservative Party with millions and millions
of pounds, but small parties do not have the capacity to fund the
sort of things that are needed, such as BSL interpreters for a
candidate. As far as I am aware, there has never been either a
Member of Parliament or a Peer who uses BSL as their first
language. That is because the barrier to get them into Parliament
is too high for them to bear on their own. Action 2 in the
Disability Action Plan states that the
“DU will develop and publish new guidance by summer”,
but until then the current arrangement will continue—so great
words, but no change really.
The second action is another that has been raised in your
Lordships’ House on a number of occasions: disabled people’s
needs in emergency and resilience planning. About a year ago,
when we were concerned about energy prices and the shortage of
energy as a result of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, I asked a
Minister in the then BEIS to look at how we could ensure that
significant power outages did not hurt the people who relied
entirely on emergency support when the power went out for more
than an hour or two once their own batteries had gone down.
People such as our own colleague, the noble Baroness, Lady
Campbell of Surbiton, would be one of those affected.
The plan says:
“Government departments already consider disabled people’s needs
in emergency and resilience planning, in line with the Public
Sector Equality Duty”.
On 16 January, however, the Department for Health and Social
Care—which, somehow, in the game of “Don’t sit down last,” ended
up taking on responsibility from BEIS for the negotiations with
the energy companies on what to do in power outages—wrote to John
Pring of Disability News Service saying:
“We have concluded that, due to the specificity of individual
needs and circumstances, individuals and their care teams are
best placed to develop plans for how they can prepare for and
respond to loss of power to their home”.
That is not government departments working together; it is worse
than that. A year on, there is now no way that any disabled
person who relies on power can go to anybody in government to
say, “My energy company is not helping me”. My baby
granddaughter, who was on a ventilator for the first three years
of her life, had one such power outage in her area. Had she not
been in a carrycot and been able to be brought out of the
outage—which adults cannot do—she would have hit very serious
problems, so, for me, this is a very personal matter.
The plan says that the Government were learning from previous
events such as the Covid-19 pandemic and the Grenfell Tower fire.
I remind the House that we still do not have PEEPs post-Grenfell
fire, which is a very serious issue if you are in a wheelchair
and are trying to get down even five flights of stairs—let me put
it more bluntly: even one flight of stairs. I am afraid that the
actions on that are unworkable.
The section on families in which someone is disabled says the
right words, but this Government have consistently starved local
government of funding for children’s services, including for
education, health and care plans. As a result, schools and the
local authorities have zero money to be able to provide, which is
why many children are not able to access the help that they are
entitled to under the law.
The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, mentioned issues relating to
assistance dogs. Dr Amy Kavanagh, who is a blind activist, said
today on social media:
“We don’t need to define assistance dogs. The law does this
already. I would welcome an ADA ‘legal questions you can ask’
model. Is the dog supporting a disability?”—
what on earth does that mean? She continues:
“What tasks does the dog perform?”
Frankly, once somebody has an assistance dog, it should not be
necessary for a taxi driver to say, “What task does your dog
perform?” That is the point at which there is a problem, and the
answer is very simple: it is illegal to stop it. Yes, the
Government are right: we need to make sure that more businesses
know what they are doing.
Katie Pennick, from Transport for All, said that there is:
“Nothing on transport, nothing on housing, nothing on social
care, nothing on PIP, nothing on hate crime, nothing on urban
planning, nothing on healthcare, nothing nothing nothing…”
Rachel Charlton-Dailey said that, this week:
“Many disabled people are once again missing out on the gov cost
of living payment … those on personal independence payment (PIP)
or its predecessor disability living allowance (DLA) have
received … £300, while those on benefits such as universal
credit, child tax credits and employment support allowance will
have got £900”.
That is discrimination against disabled people who, as we have
heard, have much higher energy costs.
I will not repeat the data mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady
Sherlock, but I want to mention one final thing about the two
Bills that are cited in the plan: the British Sign Language Act
2022 and the Down Syndrome Act 2022. When the Down Syndrome Act
went through your Lordships’ House, we were promised that other
genetic conditions would be looked at. Nobody understood why just
one condition got the support. Nothing to date has happened.
Worse than that, no funding has been allocated whatever, even
under the terms of the Down Syndrome Act. It feels like
everything else that I covered so far: warm words but no actual
benefits to disabled people.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work
and Pensions () (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady
Brinton, for responding to the Disability Action Plan. I
appreciate that the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, said that
there were some positives in it, but I acknowledge that the noble
Baroness, Lady Brinton, is not in that position. I hope that in
answering all, or nearly all, of the questions that they have
raised, I can change her mind, but I am not sure that I will be
able to.
The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, spoke about our track record.
I want to give her a very brief potted history of what has
happened here and where we have got to. I hope that will help to
provide some perspective for the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. As
the noble Baronesses will know, the Government published a draft
plan for consultation over the summer so that disabled people,
disabled people’s organisations and other interested parties had
the opportunity to have their say. The consultation was open for
12 weeks and we received more than 1,300 written responses. In
addition to that, we held a series of 25 events during the
consultation period, with more than 130 attendees, including
experts from a range of sectors. Jumping forward, on 5 February
2024, the Government published the Disability Action Plan.
The Disability Action Plan complements the long-term vision set
out in the cross-government national disability strategy. They
will be taken forward in parallel, sharing the Government’s
commitment to improving the daily lives of disabled people in the
here and now and in the years to come. It is the short term and
the long term. Significant work is already being taken forward by
individual government departments in areas that disabled people
have told us are a priority. This includes reforms to employment
and welfare via DWP’s Transforming Support: The Health and
Disability White Paper and strategies to address health and
social care via DHSC’s People at the Heart of Care White
Paper.
These long-term reform efforts are already under way, so I make
the point that there is some good work under way; it is not just
that we have been waiting for those consultations. I will also
say that this Government are aware that there are many suggested
areas where people highlighted that the consultation was not
within the scope of the action plan, and therefore that they had
not been included in it. That does not mean that work has not
been happening in these areas. It is important to remember that
the action plan is only one pillar among many pillars of work
being taken forward by this Government to improve the daily lives
of disabled people. The plan also sits alongside the national
disability strategy and other long-term work across government
supporting disabled people, including support with the cost of
living, which I will come to in a moment, through Help for
Households, as well as the SEND and alternative provision
improvement plans.
That takes me neatly on to the cost of living, which was raised
with some passion by the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. We have
committed to continue working across government to highlight
disabled people’s concerns, experiences and insights on this
topic. That includes sharing findings from this consultation and
from disabled people’s experience panels. This work is in
addition to broader work across government to support the people
most significantly impacted by the rising cost of living.
Both noble Baronesses will know about the statistics, but they
are worth repeating. In doing so, I for one understand that there
are severe hardships around; I will not cover over those. Taken
together, support for households to help with the high costs of
living is worth £104 billion over 2022-23 to 2024-25. Over 8
million UK households on eligible means-tested benefits will
receive up to three additional cost of living payments, totalling
up to £900. The noble Baronesses will know that, from yesterday,
the final payment will be paid at £299. I do not think that it is
worth rehearsing now all the other aspects, because the noble
Baronesses will be well aware of them. But perhaps it will be
helpful for me to say that we really are aware of the pressures,
particularly for disabled groups.
I will address the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady
Sherlock, on the work capability assessment reforms. We are
committed to ensuring that our welfare system encourages and
supports people into work, while providing a vital safety net for
those who need it most. As she will know, from 2025 we will
reform the work capability assessment to reflect new
flexibilities in the labour market and greater employment
opportunities for disabled people and people with health
conditions, while maintaining protections for those with the most
significant health conditions. Our expanded employment and health
offer will provide integrated and tailored support for disabled
people to support them and help move claimants closer to
work.
I will go a little further: the work capability assessment
reforms are not about sanctioning people or forcing them into
work where it is not appropriate. I reassure both noble
Baronesses that we will continue to protect those with the most
severe conditions, while ensuring that those who can work are
supported in doing so. In the future, removing the WCA will
reduce the number of assessments that people need to take to
access benefits, give people the confidence to try work and—this
is a very important point—enable us to provide more personalised
support so they will meet a real human being.
The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked about PIP and whether
there was a place for vulnerable PIP claimants. The answer is
yes. We have some extremely vulnerable customers, which is why we
provide additional support during the claims process, if
required. This support can include help with filling in the form
or questionnaire, and additional protections for failing to
return the questionnaire or for failing to attend an assessment.
Before attending a face-to-face, telephone or video consultation,
claimants are given the opportunity to alert their assessment
provider to any additional requirements they may have, and the
providers will meet any such reasonable requests. Again, it is
important to get the message across that, for the most
vulnerable, we really are there to hold their hand and make sure
that the process is made easier for them.
The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, raised an interesting point
about the areas we are focusing on to encourage more disabled
people to stand for election. We do think this is incredibly
important—as are the points that she raised. The new fund will be
launched in 2025, following the design and development work
informed by and through engagement with disabled people. This
will ensure a long-term solution that meets users’ needs,
learning lessons from previous elected office funds.
The noble Baroness made a point about timing. She will know—and
said, I think—that, in the meantime, the disability unit will
develop and publish new guidance by summer 2024. Yes, those are
words, but there are also actions. I am making the point that
this needs to be done over the long term. It is very important
that political parties and elected public bodies can best support
disabled candidates, drawing lessons from the Local Government
Association’s work and other sources. That will help to improve
support in the short term, while we establish—I make this
emphasis again—a new long-term approach.
The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about addressing the
question of public health and emergency planning
information—which is another important point. The Minister for
Disabled People, Health and Work will lead a discussion with the
ministerial disability champions on the importance of accessible
communications, with a particular focus on improving accessible
communications and information regarding resilience and
emergencies. That is just one action among a series of actions
being taken to improve the accessibility of government
communications.
I have just a few more points to make, including on families,
which was a subject raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock.
Yes, families are important. The disability unit will explore and
develop a new accessible online information hub for families with
disabled members. That work complements work led by the DfE to
roll out family hubs. The DU will work with partners to develop
new products addressing specific issues experienced by families
with disabled members. I cannot quite recall the noble Baroness’s
precise question, but I reassure her that this is important; it
is a key area. She may want more action, so I will read Hansard
and write to her if there is more that we can say on that.
Finally, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, raised a point about
assistance dogs. Our focus is on all assistance dogs, but we are
seeking to build on the excellent work of Guide Dogs UK. I
attended a reception it led the other day. Its “Open Doors”
campaign seeks the fullest possible access to public places for
people with guide dogs. Progress on educating the business sector
on the law and the negative impact that access refusals can have
on people’s confidence and ability to live an independent life
will have a positive impact on all assistance dog users.
8.17pm
(Con)
My Lords, the Disability Action Plan deserves a slightly warmer
welcome than it has received so far. The 32 actions will make a
difference in the daily lives of disabled people, but we have
further progress to make.
I will pick up on two points, one of which was touched on by the
noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. The summary of the consultation
findings at page 18 says:
“The need for more disability inclusion in local and national
planning was another strong theme”.
I do not know whether my noble friend was in his place yesterday
when there was an exchange about the building regulations and the
proposed improved accessibility for new homes. Everybody welcomed
the decision to move to the new standards, but there was some
difficulty in finding a date when they would be introduced. Can
my noble friend liaise with his colleagues in DLUHC and use his
influence to ensure that the remaining consultations that still
need to take place can be done very quickly so that we can have a
start date for these new accessible homes?
The second point relates to parents with a child who has a
learning difficulty. I welcome the recent announcements extending
free childcare, which will be rolled out first in April, then in
September and again next year. There is some anecdotal evidence
that parents with a child who has a learning disability are
finding it difficult to find a place in a nursery or other
daycare facility for their child. I know that there is some
assistance available if the child gets DLA. There may be other
forms of assistance to day nurseries in other circumstances, but
they sound a bit bureaucratic. Can my noble friend liaise with
colleagues in the DfE to make sure that children under five with
a learning disability get the support they need? They need that
support every bit as much as, if not more than, children without
a learning disability.
(Con)
I thank my noble friend for not one but two questions. Perhaps I
can answer the first one by saying, as I think my noble friend
said, that the Government have set out their intention to mandate
higher accessibility standards for all new homes by raising the
minimum standard in building regulations in England. I am not
sure that I can help with the date, but I will certainly take
that back to my colleagues in DLUHC. We will consult further on
the technical changes needed to mandate the higher M4(2)
accessibility standard, on changes to statutory guidance and on
our approach to how exceptions will apply. Making the M4(2) the
new default standard will require additional features, including
a living area at entrance level, step-free access to all
entrance-level rooms and facilities, and wider doorways and
corridors, as well as clear access routes to windows. I hope that
helps my noble friend.
He asked about day nurseries and support for disabled children
under five. I happened to hear the Secretary of State for
Education say that she was confident about the demand for
nurseries being in a better place. I had better write to my noble
friend about this specific issue. I hope I can provide similar
reassurances.
Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)
My Lords, I welcome the repeat of the Statement and the launch of
the Disability Action Plan. One of the action areas that
particularly struck me was about making playgrounds more
accessible for everybody. That is an extremely important issue
that a number of my colleagues in local councils in Northern
Ireland have very successfully made a priority. I very much
welcome its inclusion here; I commend the plan on that.
The Minister referred to other areas of work that disabled people
have told us are priorities. These include employment and welfare
reforms. As the Minister will know, the newly reformed Northern
Ireland Executive and Assembly have responsibility for welfare,
although we follow the principle of parity across the board in
social security and so forth, for the obvious reason that to
depart from what happens in the rest of the UK would cost an
enormous amount of money to the block grant. While this is
devolved in Northern Ireland, in effect we have to follow the
same rules. Can the Minister assure me that, when proposals and
their impacts are considered, there will be the closest possible
consultation and work with the relevant departments in Northern
Ireland and with the people who will be affected?
(Con)
Absolutely. I start by saying how pleased I am that the Northern
Ireland Assembly is up and running. I was a Government Whip for
the Northern Ireland Office, so I am very aware of many of the
issues.
On the second point, as the noble Lord said, the remit of the
Disability Action Plan is very much within the competence of the
UK Government. However, we have engaged officials in all the
devolved Administrations. I am pleased to say that we will work
together with our counterparts where appropriate to our mutual
benefit. One example is the foresight research that we will
undertake, on which the devolved Administrations have expressed
interest in working with us. I am sure the noble Lord will know
that we have had and continue to have more than cordial relations
with senior officials in Northern Ireland in order to maintain
the necessary stability during the past two years.
On the noble Lord’s first point, about playgrounds, I am very
pleased that he applauds this approach. I reiterate what we are
planning to do. The disability unit will create an online hub of
information for local authorities on creating accessible
playgrounds and will explore the most effective way of creating
guidance on how to develop more inclusive and accessible
playgrounds. This is on the back of stakeholders having
highlighted a lack of funding for local authorities, which is
often a big issue. Obviously, we are exploring this with families
with disabled members and with service providers to see how we
will take it forward.
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