Fraud and Economic Crime: Prosecution
(Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
1. What steps she is taking to help ensure effective prosecution
of perpetrators of fraud and economic crime.(901309)
(Hammersmith) (Lab)
4. What steps she is taking to help ensure effective prosecution
of perpetrators of fraud and economic crime.(901312)
(Edinburgh West) (LD)
9. What recent steps her Department has taken to increase
prosecution rates for fraud and economic crime.(901320)
The Solicitor General ()
The Crown Prosecution Service and the Serious Fraud Office play a
crucial role in bringing economic criminals to justice. Indeed,
this month the SFO charged two company directors with fraud in
relation to a car lease scheme into which hundreds of British
savers paid about £88 million.
The Horizon Post Office scandal has appalled the nation. Hundreds
of sub-postmasters were wrongly prosecuted and convicted, and
many were jailed, although they were entirely innocent of any
fraud. On the other hand, covid-19 fraud is known and real.
Estimates put it as high £16 billion, yet we have not clawed back
a fraction of what has been stolen. Why were the innocent left to
rot for so long, while the guilty go free to enjoy the fruits of
their covid crime?
The Solicitor General
The hon. Lady is absolutely right about the appalling miscarriage
of justice; I agree entirely with everything she said about
Horizon and the Post Office. As she knows, steps are being taken
to address that and work is ongoing. On covid crime, the Attorney
General and I meet regularly with the Serious Fraud Office and
the Crown Prosecution Service to press for action on whatever is
the pressing issue of the day. The CPS has charged a number of
individuals in relation to precisely the fraud activities she
refers to.
(East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)
Is the Solicitor General aware that the Home Affairs Committee is
currently looking at the whole issue of fraud and finding a huge
problem with everything from romance fraud to fraud financing
terrorism? Clearly, there is an urgent need for much better
joined-up working between agencies and information sharing in
this country, as well as on the international front. What
discussions and experience has he had on which nations prosecute
fraud more effectively than we do in this country?
The Solicitor General
My hon. Friend raises an excellent point. I commend him for his
work on the Home Affairs Committee and look forward to the
results of that work, which we will consider carefully. The
Attorney General and I meet regularly with the SFO and the CPS to
assess best practice and to see where lessons may be learned,
both internally and from abroad. Intelligence sharing goes on
between the respective agencies in any event, and we will look at
what lessons can be learned from best practice here and abroad to
take forward the points he raises.
In the past five years, law enforcement agencies, including the
CPS proceeds of crime unit, have confiscated £568 million from
criminals. Those agencies get to keep a tiny percentage of
recovered assets and virtually no fines to help them continue
their work. Why are the Government enfeebling the very
organisation it relies on to win the fight against economic
crime? Why will they not adopt Labour’s invest-to-save model of
enforcement?
The Solicitor General
I commend the work of the enforcement agencies, which have
rightly cracked down on the fraudulent activity the hon.
Gentleman refers to. He is right that the Government have
tirelessly pursued criminals with a view to recouping money, to
prevent those criminals from benefiting from their ill-gotten
gains. Among a number of positive outcomes has been £105 million
being returned to victims.
I thank the Solicitor General for providing detail about what is
happening, but, since the pandemic, fraud has cost the public
purse more than £21 billion, much of that related to the
Government’s own schemes. Public resentment is understandable,
because, at the same time, prosecution for fraud and money
laundering has gone down by more than 50% since 2010. Does the
Solicitor General agree that the time has come for more action
and that we should seriously consider an economic crime fighting
fund to reinvest seized assets and profits into improving law
enforcement against fraud?
The Solicitor General
The hon. Lady is right that this is matter of huge public
concern, and understandably so. The Government worked very hard
during the pandemic to ensure that support was provided, but
clearly where people have taken advantage of a system, that must
be pursued. That is why we are looking at the fraud strategy, for
example, and the economic crime plan part 2. We will continue to
drive forward to see what further action can be taken.
(Penrith and The Border)
(Con)
Every day, older and vulnerable people are preyed upon by
fraudsters and scammers, be it online, by phone or on the
doorstep. Will my hon. Friend reassure my constituents and the
country that the Conservative Government, the police and the
criminal justice system will do all they can to bring those
immoral criminals to justice?
The Solicitor General
Yes, I can. My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to this, as
people being taken advantage of is one of the great issues of our
age. It happens to members of society of all kinds, but
particularly to those who are elderly and vulnerable. Work
continues on a number of sector charters, which have been
successful in bringing forward positive outcomes. For example,
870 million scam texts have been blocked. We have taken forward
work on the Online Safety Act 2023, as well as the charters I
referred to, but I assure my hon. Friend we will continue to see
what more can be done.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Kingston upon Hull East)
(Lab)
It is two years since the former anti-fraud Minister, , resigned in embarrassment over
the Government’s oversight of covid business loan schemes,
describing it as “nothing less than woeful”. Can the Solicitor
General tell us, in the past two years, how much of the missing
billions, seemingly written off by the Prime Minister as
Chancellor, has been recovered and what the Government are doing
now to chase down the covid crooks?
The Solicitor General
The hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to this. The public
quite rightly expect the money that the Government advanced in
good faith to help those who were challenged during the pandemic
not to be the victim of fraudulent activity. Intelligence sharing
goes on between the Serious Fraud Office, which, as he knows,
prosecutes the most serious cases, and the Crown Prosecution
Service, which has already charged a number of individuals. We
will continue to do that both from our perspective and with the
law enforcement agencies to make sure that the crooks to whom he
refers are pursued.
Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill: ECHR
(Glasgow South West)
(SNP)
2. What recent assessment she has made of the compatibility of
the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill with the
European convention on human rights. (901310)
The Attorney General ()
I would like to assure the House that the Government respect
their international obligations. The Law Officers convention
prevents me from disclosing outside Government whether I have
given advice or even what the context of any such advice might
be. The Bill to which the hon. Gentleman refers is currently in
the other place, and will, I am sure, be discussed very fully
there.
Just this week, we heard media reports that four Rwandans had
been granted refugee status in the UK in the past four months,
citing well- founded fears of persecution. At the same time, the
Government would like us to accept that Rwanda is a safe country,
despite the Home Office accepting that those individuals face a
real threat of persecution. Can the Attorney General tell us how
we can send asylum seekers to Rwanda under those
circumstances?
The Attorney General
We are asking Parliament to look at the matter afresh—not just to
look at the facts as they were before the Supreme Court, but to
look at new circumstances. Evidence was published on 11 January
to assist Parliament in those deliberations. We have assurances
from the Government of Rwanda that the implementation of all
measures within the treaty will be expedited, and we will ratify
the treaty when we are ready to do so.
Mr Speaker
I call the SNP spokesperson.
(North Ayrshire and Arran)
(SNP)
Journalists and bloggers who criticise the Government are
arrested, threatened and put on trial, with allegations of
torture, disappearances and suspicious deaths. Those are just
some of the issues that Human Rights Watch and Amnesty have
reported on in Rwanda. When asking Parliament to disregard
established legal principles such as the burden of proof and the
need for evidence, is the Attorney General genuinely comfortable
in passing the Rwanda Bill?
The Attorney General
It is constitutionally proper for Parliament to legislate in
response to a decision of the Supreme Court. We do it all the
time in the finance and tax space. Lord Reed was careful to point
out to the Constitution Committee in the other House that we did
it following the Burmah oil case in the War Damage Act 1965. In
this case, I urge the hon. Lady to look hard at the evidence that
the Government put before the House on 11 January. If the Bill
passes, everyone must treat Rwanda as generally safe for the
transfer of individuals under the treaty.
Violence against Women and Girls: Prosecution
(Ealing Central and Acton)
(Lab)
3. What steps she is taking to help increase prosecution rates
for cases relating to violence against women and girls.
(901311)
(Kingston upon Hull North)
(Lab)
8. What steps she is taking to help increase prosecution rates
for cases relating to violence against women and girls.
(901319)
The Attorney General ()
We are steadily increasing the number of rape cases sent to the
Crown court. We are preparing to launch a joint justice plan,
which will transform how the police and the Crown Prosecution
Service investigate and prosecute domestic abuse cases.
I will welcome my friend Andriy Kostin, the Ukrainian Prosecutor
General, who is not quite here yet because his plane has not
arrived, in my office after questions. The relevance of that is
that a team of UK experts is supporting his office to investigate
and prosecute cases of conflict-related sexual violence in
Ukraine.
Dr Huq
Last July, the then Solicitor General, the hon. and learned
Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (), told the House, in a
written answer to the hon. Member for Strangford ():
“A new VAWG strategy for 2023-2025 is being developed for
publication later this year.”
That year has come and gone, as has that Solicitor General, so
can the Attorney General tell us the status of the strategy and
its content, who the Government are consulting, and when it will
be published?
The Attorney General
The hon. Lady takes a long-term interest in these affairs, and
she I have discussed them for many years. I reassure her that a
great deal of work has been done. The work in the rape sphere,
which I referenced earlier, is very commendable. After having a
really difficult time in prosecuting rapes for many years, we are
back up to 2016 levels, and indeed are exceeding them. The joint
justice plan, which will build on the rape work in the domestic
abuse sphere, will be ready very shortly—we are saying “in the
spring”, but I think she will have to wait only a few weeks.
The Home Affairs Committee carried out an inquiry into the
investigation and prosecution of rape. One of our very clear
recommendations was that police forces need to have specialist
units to investigate rape for cases to proceed to the CPS, and
hopefully to court. We know that we get better decision making
and communication with victims and the CPS if we have those
specialist officers. Is the Attorney General as surprised as I am
that not all police forces have those specialist units to deal
with rape and sexual assaults?
The Attorney General
The right hon. Lady, who does sterling work on the Home Affairs
Committee, knows that the police are not directly under my
supervision, but I am proud to talk about the very close
co-operation between the police and CPS specialists in this
field, which has really helped, together with some great
granularity and pushing on the statistics to drive up rape
prosecutions. She will be glad to know that in her area of
Yorkshire and Humberside the number of suspects charged with rape
has increased significantly over the last year.
(Sedgefield) (Con)
My Newton Aycliffe constituent Zoey McGill suffered from
appalling knife crime when her son Jack Woodley was killed in
2021. She is now suffering again, as one of the perpetrators is
using social media from custody to glorify himself. Does the
Attorney General agree that such actions should be prosecuted,
and that the consequences should be publicised to ensure that
they become a deterrent against others glorifying themselves from
our prisons?
The Attorney General
My hon. Friend highlights a horrific case. That is why it is so
important that we crack down on mobile phone use, and indeed
mobile phone existence, within prisons. The Government have put
in £100 million to ensure that prisons have airport-style
security, to ensure that it is much more difficult for phones to
get in. Incidents such as he raises are very serious, and I
commend him for doing so, as well as his constituent Zoey and The
Northern Echo, which I understand has been campaigning on the
issue.
Prosecution of Fraud: Covid-19
(Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)
(Alba)
5. How many prosecutions have been brought by the Serious Fraud
Office for cases of fraud connected with covid-19 (a) contracts
and (b) financial support schemes. (901315)
The Solicitor General ()
The Serious Fraud Office has brought no prosecutions for cases of
fraud connected with covid-19. The SFO deals only with the most
complex and serious economic crime, so the vast majority of such
cases would not fall within its remit. The SFO works closely with
other law enforcement agencies to ensure that intelligence is
shared and the investigations are handled by the most appropriate
agency.
It is staggering to hear the Solicitor General refer to this as
not serious, or imply that it is not serious. In 2023, the level
of fraud reported by His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs in two
covid-19 financial support schemes sat between £3.3 billion and
£7.3 billion, with less than £1 billion being recovered.
Considering that the UK Government have already written off an
alarming £8.7 billion that they spent on protective equipment
bought during the pandemic, will he commit to routinely
publishing accounts including the number of prosecutions and the
cost of recovery for covid-19 contracts and support schemes?
The Solicitor General
The hon. Gentleman misunderstands my point: the SFO deals with
the most complex schemes. Not for a second would I have suggested
that any such fraud is not serious—of course it is—but the vast
majority of the crimes to which he alludes would be dealt with by
the CPS. Indeed, the CPS has charged a number of individuals with
precisely those sorts of crimes.
Director of Public Prosecutions: Priorities
(Harrow East) (Con)
6. What recent discussions she has had with the Director of
Public Prosecutions on his priorities for the Crown Prosecution
Service.(901316)
The Attorney General ()
I have regular meetings with the Director of Public Prosecutions.
His priorities align closely with those of the Government—namely,
tackling delays, combating violence against women and girls,
enhancing our work with victims and driving improvement across
the system.
It appears that almost every week on our streets we see
hate-filled demonstrations with antisemitism rife, yet no action
seems to be taken. The end result is that my hon. Friend the
Member for Finchley and Golders Green () has announced his decision to
leave this place because of antisemitism and the threats against
his person. Will my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney
General take up the matter with the CPS, to ensure that that is
the last such case and that antisemitism is prosecuted properly
in the way it should be?
The Attorney General
My hon. Friend raises an important and serious matter. I reassure
him that I have been working closely with the CPS, which in turn
is extremely close to the police, to deal with these very
significant issues. The CPS has been embedded in the control
rooms during the most serious of the marches that have taken
place.
I also reassure my hon. Friend that a large number of
prosecutions have already started. Most of the ones that have
come to conclusion are necessarily guilty pleas, because
prosecutions take time, but we all saw, sadly, a large uptick in
that horrible crime after 7 October last year, and we are just
starting to get to the phase when trials are beginning where
people have not pleaded guilty. I hope he will take some
reassurance from my answer and that he will come and see me so
that I can talk him through some of the work we are doing.
(Liverpool, Riverside)
(Lab)
Does the Attorney General agree that a key priority for the CPS
must be fixing the flawed way that joint enterprise laws are
used, and does she agree that no one should ever be convicted of
a crime that they made no significant contribution to?
The Attorney General
I know the hon. Lady is a long- time campaigner on joint
enterprise, and I also know that the Lord Chancellor, my dear
friend in this place, has also considered such matters very
carefully.
Government: Rule of Law
(North Tyneside) (Lab)
7. What recent steps she has taken with Cabinet colleagues to
ensure the rule of law is upheld within Government.(901317)
The Attorney General ()
I have always been clear that the rule of law is fundamental to
our constitution, and it is the duty of the Law Officers to
uphold it. As I emphasised in my speech at the Institute for
Government last summer and in my appearance before the House of
Lords Constitution Committee, I take that duty very seriously
indeed. I engage not only with colleagues across Government but
with students and other young people, to ensure that the rule of
law is protected not just now but for generations to come.
The Horizon scandal has raised many important legal questions,
ranging from the reliance on flawed evidence to the slow pace of
the justice system in correcting miscarriages of justice. Will
the Attorney General now address the implications for the power
of organisations such as the Post Office to pursue private
prosecutions, and in particular what oversight the Crown
Prosecution Service can or should have over the use of those
powers?
The Attorney General
I thank the hon. Lady for her serious question and would like her
to rest assured that these matters are being considered very
carefully within Government. The immediate priority is to take
bold and novel action to right, in so far as we can, the wrongs
that have come about through the Horizon scandal, but a
slower-timed but nevertheless urgent piece of work is to make
sure that private prosecutions are sufficiently scrutinised and
inspected in future.
Sir (Northampton North) (Con)
Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the leaking of
Law Officer advice for political or any other purposes is not
only a breach of the very important Law Officers’ convention
respecting the confidentiality of legal advice, but damaging to
the public interest and contrary to the rule of law?
The Attorney General
My right hon. and learned Friend makes a characteristically
significant intervention. Having served as both Solicitor General
and Attorney General, he will know very well the importance of
the Law Officers’ convention to the working of Government. Legal
professional privilege generally is a very important construct
and something on which the client relationship relies. In
Government it is, if anything, even more significant, and when
Law Officers’ advice is leaked it has a chilling effect on our
ability to provide free, frank and honest advice to the rest of
Government. That is something I wholeheartedly deplore, and I
agree with everything my right hon. and learned Friend said.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Attorney General.
(Islington South and
Finsbury) (Lab)
We have all read with deep concern last week’s interim ruling
from the International Court of Justice regarding the situation
in Gaza, and Labour is absolutely clear that Hamas must release
all remaining hostages immediately, that Israel must comply with
the ICJ’s orders in full, that the judgment of the Court must be
treated with respect, and that all parties must comply with
international law as part of an immediate humanitarian truce and
a sustainable ceasefire. I ask the Attorney General, very simply:
does she agree with me on all those points; and is it the
official position of the Government to accept the authority of
the Court in this matter and, even more importantly, to urge
Israel also to accept the authority of the Court and to implement
its orders in full as a matter of urgency?
The Attorney General
The right hon. Lady is right to call for international
humanitarian law to be respected and civilians to be protected in
Gaza, and I join her in that call. We are deeply concerned about
the impact of what is happening on the civilian population in
Gaza; too many have been killed, and we want to see Israel take
greater care to limit its operations to military targets. We
regularly review Israel’s commitment to IHL, and I believe that
we in this House all call for an immediate pause that will allow
aid to get in and hostages to come out.
