Chris Loder (West Dorset) (Con) I beg to move, That this House has
considered the provision of broadband for rural communities. It is
a pleasure to be here as the Member for West Dorset and to serve
under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. I welcome Members from across the
House who are participating in the debate, and extend a warm
welcome to my constituents in the Gallery. “Inequality”,
“isolation” and “exclusion” are the three terms most associated
with...Request free trial
(West Dorset) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the provision of broadband for
rural communities.
It is a pleasure to be here as the Member for West Dorset and to
serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. I welcome Members from
across the House who are participating in the debate, and extend
a warm welcome to my constituents in the Gallery.
“Inequality”, “isolation” and “exclusion” are the three terms
most associated with the impacts of poor rural broadband. “Weak”
and “ineffectual” are terms often associated with Ofcom, the
regulator, which is meant to protect the interests of
constituents, both urban and rural. “Ruthless”, “commercial”,
“yield maximising” and “predatory organisations” are terms often
associated with businesses—often very large businesses—that look
to prioritise urban rather than rural areas through maximising
revenue. The terms “rural isolation” and “digital poverty” are
often ignored, yet they are incredible issues for those of us who
represent rural constituencies, not least in the south-west.
(East Yorkshire) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate.
If we are serious about saying we are going to level up, does he
agree that there is no reason why a community that is
geographically isolated also needs to be digitally isolated?
Yes, I entirely agree. For far too long the prioritisation has
been to connect urban and more densely populated areas, rather
than rural areas. We live in a country where we do not value
people’s lives more in urban areas than in rural areas; it is
important to have fairness across the board, including in terms
of investment. Only last week in this very Chamber, I and other
Members made the point that rural funding and investment—for
rural councils, services or others—need to be prioritised much
more. We do not want a turf war; we just want fairness across the
board. At the moment, I am afraid to say, I am concerned that my
constituents in West Dorset are not receiving that fairness.
I do not know whether colleagues here will appreciate or
understand the term “rural notspots”, but they are a big issue.
Rural notspots are areas where people are lucky if they can get a
mobile signal and extremely lucky if they can get a broadband
connection. Vodafone’s report, “Connecting the Countryside”,
revealed that 4.8 million people in rural constituencies live in
5G notspots, and 100% of West Dorset is a 5G notspot or partial
notspot. That has a huge impact on residents across my
constituency and, I am sure, in neighbouring ones as well.
(Hereford and South
Herefordshire) (Con)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for calling this debate. He is
absolutely right about notspots. We have notspots in the city of
Hereford, but in Herefordshire we also have very isolated areas.
Does he share my view that the problem is not just with Openreach
and the enforcement of Ofcom, but that there is a specific
problem related to the reliance on voice over internet protocol,
as though that were a solution with batteries for people who find
themselves isolated, as my constituents were in Bacton and
Abbeydore recently? What long-term solution will we have to
address that issue, alongside all the ones my hon. Friend has
already memorably raised?
I wholly agree. In a moment, I intend to talk about the impact of
the digital phone switchover, because it appears to be complete
madness that we are continuing to progress with that when there
are vast swathes of rural Britain—not just rural West Dorset, but
other areas, including, I am sure, my right hon. Friend’s
constituency—where the decent or functional connectivity that is
needed to achieve that switchover is lacking.
On many previous occasions, I have stressed that the statistics
provided by organisations such as Ofcom, which is meant to be the
regulator, simply do not represent the lived experiences of many
thousands of my own constituents, and colleagues from across the
House will probably express a similar view. It is totally
unacceptable that Ofcom states that every area in and around the
village of Stoke Abbott has either good or okay data coverage.
Well, I am afraid that the reality is quite the opposite, as
anyone who visited would see, and many other villages and
parishes have the same issue. It is bordering on a scandal that
enormous mobile phone operators can publish data saying that they
provide a signal or a connection, and that is backed up by Ofcom,
when the reality is that people living in those parishes—although
it can also be the case outside, not just inside the home—cannot
get a signal at all. Around 75% of the community I surveyed about
the issue ranked their coverage in the worst possible terms.
Stoke Abbott in my constituency has 0% gigabit capability and a
widespread lack of 4G, and I mentioned the 5G notspots
earlier.
I want to use this opportunity to bring to the attention of the
House e-petition 636502, which is on the funding of fixed
wireless broadband for poorly connected areas. Having been
elected to this House four years ago, almost to the day, I have
become very well aware that when it comes to petitions, it is
those with the largest number of signatories that get the biggest
hearing. E-petition 636502 has received 1,232 signatures. On the
face of it, that may not be a huge number but, my goodness, those
1,232 people are the most affected by the inability of any part
of the sector to provide them with the most basic level of
connectivity, forcing them into a totally unacceptable level of
rural isolation and indeed rural poverty.
We know that there is a huge difference to the economy and
people’s wellbeing where there is a fixed broadband connection;
we also know that 98% of people in urban areas have a fixed
broadband connection compared with just 83% of people in rural
areas, and that fixed broadband connection correlates to economic
activity. In constituencies such as my own, a third of the
population are over 65. That is an unusually high age
demographic, meaning that there are many older people who are not
familiar with—in some cases, they are unable to become familiar
with—the technology required to achieve some of the things that
the Government and others might like to see in the evolution of
communications; I have already mentioned the digital phone
switchover, but I am also talking about basic services. We are
seeing record numbers of bank branches closing in market towns.
Elderly people are being put in a situation in which they are
fearful of using technology because they may not necessarily have
the skills to pick up whether a particular correspondence or
email is spam; they fear the consequences of doing the wrong
thing, often feel that they are between a rock and a hard place,
and are not sure what to do.
Some 97% of the businesses in West Dorset are small or
micro-sized. Our economy is very rural. Those small businesses
need better connectivity than they have. It is really concerning
that an attempted change through the digital phone switchover,
which has been postponed once, although I understand that BT is
going to progress with that. I find it incredible that
organisations such as the Local Government Association estimate
that 1.7 million people who access technology-enabled care and
support will be put at risk because of a potential lack of
connection once the analogue lines are switched to digital. How
can any moral organisation consider doing that when we are
presented with such statistics? I hope that my right hon. Friend
the Minister will take particular note of this point, because it
is a massive concern for Members such as myself who represent
vastly rural constituencies with a considerable number of older
people; we have many concerns about their care in that
situation.
The problem is not so strongly felt in urban areas, but it is
important to talk about the extent of the roll-out of improvement
across the board. Part of the yield-prioritised approach of many
larger businesses is that they look to roll out schemes, in line
with Government incentive schemes, that will benefit as many
houses as possible in the shortest possible time. That is all
well and good, but when an area of the country—perhaps an urban
one—that has, say, 100 megabits per second speed is looking to
improve still further to gigabit speed, and there are places with
barely a 2 megabit per second speed that are still being left
behind, something is going quite wrong.
In September 2022, gigabit coverage was 47% in predominantly
rural areas versus 79% in urban areas. My constituency and, I am
sure, those of neighbouring Members of Parliament will be
experiencing the same thing. The Government have set very clear
targets, which I appreciate because they are helpful to give
guidance to the industry about the Government’s wish and
intention. The Government targets of 85% and 99% gigabit
availability by 2025 and 2030 respectively sound good, and I
appreciate them, but it is really important that the Government
hear this message loud and clear: it is no longer acceptable to
me that the 15% and 1% respectively are the same 15% and 1% who
lost out in previous schemes. Those people are being pushed
further and further back in the wider connectivity race than they
should be. That is why I called out earlier the pretty ruthless,
commercial and yield-maximising approach of some of the largest
companies in this space; that approach needs to be challenged,
and I hope my right hon. Friend the Minister will consider how we
can ensure much better fairness in this area.
West Dorset serves as a particularly good example. The Minister
will know that if a provider signs up to one of the various
different Government schemes—whether it is the voucher scheme or,
for example, a community fibre partnership—that blocks the
capacity or capability of a competitor to say, “Actually, we
would like to go there.” That business can hold on to the area
and get its claws into it for a prolonged period. It appears
almost anti-competitive that, as happened in the Bridport area of
my constituency, Jurassic Fibre, with the best of intentions,
formerly did lots of very good work and was then taken over by
AllPoints Fibre, and now the engineering work and the whole
approach to making that happen has been put on hold, ad infinitum
in many areas. The company feels as though it is okay to put that
on hold while it considers the consequences of its reorganisation
and takeover. Well, that is not acceptable. When there are other
businesses and companies that believe they could provide that
service to local people much more quickly, and possibly more
efficiently, it is anti-competitive to allow that sort of
behaviour.
I could run through so many parishes by way of example, but if
there is one thing that I really would like the Minister to come
back on and/or action, it is this approach by some providers
that, in effect, land grab and say that they will make
improvements and meet the Government’s intentions—whether through
a voucher scheme or otherwise—but then fail to deliver and block
others from showing an interest in doing so. Indeed, the whole
bidding process for providing the next level of improvements is
hugely affected by this as well, which is a great concern to me.
I hope the Government will take action, understand that those
organisations that have committed to do something have not
delivered, and remove the primacy they have to prevent others
from doing so.
I would like to summarise my remarks, because I know that many
other colleagues would like to speak in this debate, and I
appreciate the time that I have had so far. Overall, I would like
the Government to note that, for the last four years that I have
been in this place, one of my priorities has been to ensure that
we make substantial improvements to address rural isolation and
rural connectivity. I know full well that the Government have
indeed made a lot of progress in that area, and a lot of my
constituents have felt those improvements. But it is also fair to
say that the most rural villages and parishes still continue to
be left out, just because they might have only 40 or 50 homes, or
maybe even 100. That is not acceptable and not part of what we
believe is right, in the spirit of fairness across the country
for all our constituents.
I warmly encourage my colleagues here to contribute to the debate
with their own experiences. I am sure that many colleagues
present, especially those representing rural areas, will have
very similar stories to mine. That is why it is so important that
we have this debate and allow the Government to hear this
feedback, I think for the second time today—I understand that
there was the copper cabling debate earlier, which I am sorry I
was not able to be at, because of other business that I had to
attend to in the House. I hope that we will see real, significant
improvements to how we support the most rurally isolated people
in our society today.
2.49pm
(Strangford) (DUP)
It is a pleasure to speak in this debate and to be called first
from the Opposition side. I would say it is unique; it may not be
all that unique, but that is by the way. I thank the hon. Member
for West Dorset () for leading the debate so
well. He set the scene well for his constituency; I will mirror
what he said for my own, and others will do the same shortly. I
am aware of what the hon. Gentleman has done to improve mobile
and broadband connectivity for his constituents. Most of us here
share the concern that some cannot access the same technological
advances as others. This is very much a UK-wide issue, so it is
great to be here to give a Northern Ireland perspective, as well
as that of my constituents.
As the Minister will know, back in 2017 we had a deal with the
Conservative party, through a confidence and supply motion, to
deliver some £150 million of broadband across Northern Ireland.
That secured the delivery of broadband to almost 90,000 rural
premises across Northern Ireland. While others, namely Sinn Féin,
postured and said that we did not need to do that, public money
was spent on high-speed broadband for rural dwellers, and the
intervention has been the most transformative investment for our
rural economy since the electricity network was extended. We
should never underestimate the importance of what happened at
that time.
One of the most startling statistics of the past five years has
been the fact that Northern Ireland, at 82% full-fibre broadband,
is already well ahead of England at 67%, Scotland at 60% and
Wales at 49%. The Republic of Ireland was way behind us at 40%.
Maintaining current rates of progress until 2025 will see
Northern Ireland becoming the first country in these islands in
which availability reaches 99% of our premises. That is some of
the good news. In my constituency of Strangford, we have had
5,000 homes upgraded, which is a massive boost for my
constituency. It underlines the importance of what we did, so I
publicly thank the Minister and our Government for the
partnership we had at that time.
To update hon. Members on where we are now, in June 2023 the
Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland launched a public
review aimed at improving broadband infrastructure, predominantly
in rural areas, to catch up that 18% who do not have it yet. Many
constituents who have been in touch with my office have been able
to avail themselves of the scheme, but others are still unable to
resolve the issue.
The public review is part of the planned implementation of
Project Gigabit in Northern Ireland. Project Gigabit in the UK is
the Government’s flagship £5 billion programme to enable
hard-to-reach communities to access lightning-fast
gigabit-capable broadband. It is a commendable project by the
Government here, and one that I welcome because I see the
benefits; I am sure we will see more benefits shortly. In
addition, members of the public, businesses, groups,
organisations, telecoms infrastructure providers were able to
avail themselves of the scheme, but thus far I am aware of a few
instances where businesses are struggling to regain better
connection.
I will give an example. I spoke to the Minister beforehand about
this and gave him a letter along these lines just last week: I am
currently dealing with an issue for a constituent whose business
is on a rural road in Saintfield, a village in my constituency. I
have sent numerous emails to the Department for Science,
Innovation and Technology. I handed the case to the Minister
through the Whip. Indeed, I have spoken to the Minister.
On this rural road, cables, fittings and nodes have been secured
to permit the extension of sufficient broadband to this area. It
is frustrating to have all that stuff in place when all we need
to do is make that last connection, and then that business will
be up and running. The work was halted by the Department for
Culture, Media and Sport, and my constituents have received
little or no communication on the improvement of their broadband.
I am hopeful that the Minister will help to resolve the issue for
my constituents, and I know my hope and confidence in him will
not be misplaced, but the damage and the hassle for local
businesses are extremely destructive to people’s livelihoods.
Another example of where we need to improve relates to card
payments and the sending of digital invoices and receipts. Cards
are often not charged and there are delays in the processing of
payments, which poses an inconvenience for customers and business
owners. When broadband is poor, emails with digital receipts will
not send properly and online orders cannot be made efficiently.
That creates more issues for local businesses, given that we
encourage people to invest in them daily. I look again to the
Minister, who always responds positively and grasps the issues
that we put to him. I am confident that his answers will
reinforce my faith in him. I ask him to look at the cases I have
mentioned, and I would be grateful if he expedited any work on
them for the betterment of my constituents’ businesses.
Many farmers in my constituency—others will probably say this as
well—keep track of livestock through online apps. Given that
there is so much rural theft, that is to be encouraged, and I
encourage it in my constituency. To ensure that the agricultural
industry can thrive, we must ensure that rural connectivity is
made a priority. Doing so will benefit the local economy, which
agriculture plays such an important role in making successful.
Like the constituency of the hon. Member for West Dorset, my
constituency of Strangford has seen many large high-street bank
closures in the past couple of months. In the past couple of
years, 11 banks have closed in my constituency, which has meant a
huge shift to online banking.
I am conscious that others wish to speak; I want to give them
equal time to contribute, so I will conclude. For rural
constituents, online and telephone banking are more or less their
main ways of accessing banking services. If decisions are being
taken to close banks, we must ensure that consideration is given
to having the best possible broadband and mobile signal. I am
confident that we can achieve that, and I look forward to it.
Again, I ask the Minister to chase up the constituency case that
I mentioned and to keep in contact with my office. He has already
given me that commitment, and I am quite sure that that will
happen.
(in the Chair)
Thank you. That was just the amount of time that I had in mind:
seven minutes. I call .
2.56pm
(North Devon) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. I
thank my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset () and congratulate him on
securing today’s important debate.
On the doorsteps of North Devon, getting broadband done was
second only to getting Brexit done when I was elected back in
2019. On my arrival here, I rapidly took over the chairmanship of
the all-party parliamentary group on broadband and digital
communication. I was determined to find some positive news for
the Minister about rural connectivity in North Devon. When I was
elected, 90.3% of my constituents could access superfast
broadband and 3.9% could access gigabit-capable. We have come a
long way: the figures are now 53.8% gigabit-capable and 94.2%
superfast.
That sounds fabulous, and it is an immense improvement to have
got to that point. However, being a mathematician at heart, I had
a bit of a play around with the numbers at the weekend. My fear
is that 5% of my constituents still do not even get superfast
broadband. There are still over 1,640 constituency properties—not
people—that are below the universal service obligation. There is
a real concern about the digital divide, which I have spoken
about at many recent events. Some people are completely cut off.
Yes, the letters complaining about rural connectivity have
stopped, but that is probably because people do not know that
there is no connection because they are unable to get online. I
am deeply concerned about what will happen with the remaining
5%.
I know what the plan is. In the time that I have been in
Parliament, Connecting Devon and Somerset has connected over
2,000 properties. That does not sound like many, but the
engineers on the ground—I have had the pleasure of meeting them
with Building Digital UK—say that the build in my constituency is
the hardest they have ever delivered. When we talk about rural
connectivity, we need to understand that until we get 5G and the
satellite system sorted, we will not be sending fibre down every
little farm track. We must look very differently at the final 5%
and how we will connect those people.
I thank the Openreach team and the community of Mortehoe. The
little village of Mortehoe in my constituency has undertaken a
fibre community partnership. It was combined with work with
National Grid, because—to cut a very long story short—in the end
they could not actually do the fibre community partnership. It
means that gigabit-capable broadband is about to be switched on
and that all the overhead cables, right the way through the
village, can be taken down in this area of outstanding natural
beauty, so that Mortehoe has both a stunning view and
gigabit-capable broadband. That is a testament to the work of
that community.
I highlight that community because one of my concerns about the
plans for the future of North Devon is that, because we are going
into what is called the Project Gigabit type C contract
procurement round, which will not complete until next spring, we
can no longer access fibre community partnerships. Communities
that have managed to deliver gigabit-capable in conjunction with
Openreach, Airband and other operators cannot have a fibre
community partnership until that procurement round has finished.
I would dearly like to see that issue addressed.
I am very grateful to Openreach for connecting the village of
Westleigh. I am the guinea pig in Westleigh: I am living the
dream of connecting to gigabit-capable after an engineer was sent
last Friday. I talk about the digital divide, and I am really
concerned about how complicated connecting is. Hon. Members might
think that it is straightforward once the fibre is in the
property, but I was sent a cable—no instructions, just a cable—to
try to connect myself to the outside world. I asked how to
connect the cable, and I was sent a hub. I decided that I would
do nothing, and the engineer very kindly came and sent back the
hub because I did not need it and they knew how to plug in the
cable. The joy of having an actual engineer in my house is that I
could talk to them about what is going on.
I know that this is the wrong debate—I, too, was tied up on other
parliamentary business this morning—but I would like to flag the
issue of phone lines being switched off. I know people do not
necessarily believe my version of events, but the engineer who
was sat in my house on Friday explained that when they go round
to houses to fix the landline, they ask where the broadband hub
is, and they are often told by the elderly resident that they do
not have broadband. They then find that there is a pile of hubs
in brown boxes in the hallway that have never been opened. People
do not understand the technology that is being sent to them. It
is hard to explain to communities that have never had broadband
that they now do not have a phone either, and that they will get
this brand-new technology and a phone at the same time. We need
to understand that unfortunately, unlike the Department, which is
hugely high-tech and does really exciting things, most of our
constituents who have not had access to this technology have a
lot of catching up to do.
I am utterly delighted with gigabit. The speed is fantastic and
there is no buffering when I catch up on important world events
such as who got through on “Strictly”—we keep up with the big
issues of the day—but I still cannot make a phone call in the
kitchen because my phone relies on the wi-fi and the only way to
get it through a cottage wall is with these bouncy discs, which
did not come with the cable and would double the amount that I
have to pay for my brand-new, super-duper gigabit-capable. I feel
that that is wrong, because they will not alter how much I use
the connection, so there should be a fixed price.
We need to make connecting easier. I urge all my constituents to
check what has gone past their house, because 53.8% of properties
in North Devon can now access gigabit-capable, but take-up is a
fraction of that. It is a bit complicated, as I discovered, but
in the longer term it is well worth giving it a go.
I want to put on the record my thanks for all the work that has
been done in my constituency, which I know is hard to get to. I
really am worried about the final 5%, and I think that not enough
is being done to look at satellite, radio, 5G and the other
technologies that remote rural constituencies need in order not
to fall further behind. Many are already not one or two but three
technologies behind, and we need to help them to get online.
People also need the skills to access the services that we all
rely on in this technological age.
3.03pm
(Tiverton and Honiton)
(LD)
It is an honour to serve under your chairship, Mr Dowd.
The internet has plainly revolutionised the way we live our lives
and the world we inhabit, but the trouble is that it is
increasingly a tale of two halves: those people who have fast,
superfast or ultrafast broadband in urban areas, and those of us
who live in rural areas, who go without. In huge swathes of the
countryside, people find it hard even to get a mobile phone
signal, so this is exacerbating a problem that we have
already.
I would like to give the House some examples of situations that I
have encountered in Devon. In Northleigh, a small village outside
Honiton, fewer than half the residents can access full-fibre
broadband. One constituent, a surgeon, has written to tell me
that because of the stuttering delivery of the Project Gigabit
vouchers, he has wi-fi so bad that he is unable to download
crucial scans the day before an appointment. The Government say
that they are trying to wrestle with the waiting list of 7.7
million operations that is bringing this country’s economy almost
to a standstill. If that is the case, addressing wi-fi has to be
one of the places where we start.
The 900 residents of Kilmington have had a dreadful experience.
They often use the village hall, so they tried to get a business
broadband service for it. When they got in touch with various
internet service providers—I have all the correspondence
here—they were not informed about the universal service
obligation and the funding to which it entitled them.
Meanwhile, the parishioners of All Saints, near Axminster, have
taken it upon themselves to appoint a broadband champion. So
great is the issue for people in the village that they feel that
that is necessary to give the matter some status and
authority.
Those are just three examples, but I could give many more from my
part of Devon. The south-west in general has dreadful download
speeds. The UK average is 111 megabits per second. In the
south-west, we have an average speed of about 99 megabits per
second, but in my corner of Devon it is more like 57 megabits per
second, which is half the national average. Even some of the
towns in and around my patch, including Axminster, Seaton and
Sidmouth, have some of the worst speeds in the country and are in
the bottom 10% for download speeds. The contrast with the urban
areas is stark.
Openreach has written excitedly to constituents in Tiverton
extolling the virtue of ultrafast fibre to the premises, which it
claims will have download speeds of more than 1,000 megabits per
second. Yet Devon homes and businesses should not hold their
breath, as there is a target of 25 million by 2027. We heard from
the hon. Member for North Devon () that it will be difficult
to reach that extra 5% and that perhaps those people living in
rural properties in those places should simply wait for 5G. I am
sorry, but I do not feel that we should accept that. If there is
a universal service obligation, we should, as a country, make
sure that that is rolled out everywhere. It is not just affecting
people’s social cohesion or their feeling of connection to
others—
Could I correct that statement? I did not say that people should
just wait; I said that we should be looking at how we can connect
them. Like the hon. Gentleman, my Devon neighbour, I agree that
there is a need to speed up, but I encourage him to speak to
Connecting Devon and Somerset to better understand the work that
has already gone on and which premises are affected. It has
detailed stats available and will be able to update him.
I am grateful for that clarification. The hon. Member mentions
Connecting Devon and Somerset; I have heard from constituents
about how CDS did not draw down funding from Project Gigabit and
has missed out on substantial sums of money that it could
otherwise have garnered.
Will the hon. Gentleman, my neighbour, join me in welcoming the
Government policy to set aside £8 million to help those who are
in the most difficult positions—down country lanes and so on—with
the satellite options? Does he think that that is a good move
that will help his constituents, as it will help mine?
The simple answer is yes—I welcome any and all interventions that
support our rural constituents to get them broadband—but the
reality of what our constituents are feeling and finding on the
ground is very different. We can talk about any sum of money we
like, but the reality is that the pledges that have been made,
including in the 2019 Conservative manifesto, are not living up
to the reality for our constituents. The Conservative Government
have been promising for years that we will see a mass roll-out of
gigabit broadband of at least 85% by 2025, yet rural areas are
once again left lagging. It is very much true for Devon, and it
is very much true for the west country: we are being taken for
granted.
3.09pm
(Meon Valley) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. I
thank my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset () for securing this incredibly
important debate. Like others, getting better broadband for my
constituents in has been a key focus of my work since 2019.
During covid it became clear how isolated some of my constituents
could become.
I want to raise awareness of a couple of issues in particular,
which are still holding us back. I am afraid I am not as positive
as my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon () about Openreach. The
communities of Kilmeston, Bramdean and Cheriton had a gigabit
voucher approved by Building Digital UK more than a year ago but,
since then, Openreach has delayed things.
First, Openreach told constituents that BDUK was the hold-up on
approving the gigabit programme vouchers. When I contacted BDUK,
it turned out it had not been given all the information it had
requested. I had to ask BDUK to extend the deadline for the
previous scheme to get the vouchers approved, and it did so. I am
grateful to BDUK for all its hard work and for responding so
quickly to my questions.
Since then, Openreach has dithered about installing the fibre.
Again, constituents were told SSE was the blocker. I met SSE and
it turned out that every other telecoms provider agrees
nationwide licences with SSE for its poles to carry cables, but
Openreach has not. Openreach has agreed to pay for the licence
for this project but there is apparently a delay in getting the
payment made to SSE. That nonsense had been dragging on for
months, and I understand the sheer exasperation of my
constituents.
There are a couple of senior public servants who were given fast
broadband very quickly. That is fine but, while doing that,
Openreach bypassed many other residents with equally important
jobs: the director of NHS emergency services; a consultant
orthopaedic spinal surgeon; three GPs; a CEO responsible for
vehicle fleet support for 12 police forces, two first-aid
services and two ambulance trusts; a project manager for a
national mobile telephone company; project manager for SSE,
ironically; a senior TV news correspondent; the editor of a
national sports newspaper; and many more, which I will not list
now.
I complained about this to the CEO of Openreach and I got
diverted to the MPs’ complaints department. Does he know how his
company is performing in rural areas? I will keep battling on to
break this logjam, but perhaps it would be useful for Ofcom to
look into how different infrastructure owners work together in
practice. Although we have guidelines, it seems more can be done
to facilitate getting cables installed.
A second problem relates to constituents who have been abandoned
completely by another company. The company, now branded as Trooli
but originally Call Flow, has told residents of Woodlands in my
constituency that it is discontinuing its services. That has come
out of the blue, with minimal information supplied. They are
being told to switch to 4G; the trouble is there is no 4G in that
area. Although Trooli says it is within its rights to do this,
surely it is unacceptable that a company that has had public
money to set up its network can simply walk aways from it, when
there is no viable replacement.
Does my hon. Friend agree that some of these unscrupulous
providers, who suggest they are going to do things but then
backtrack and fail to deliver, should be properly held to
account, and that we should find ways to ensure that Ofcom does
that?
Mrs Drummond
Absolutely, and I hope Ofcom is listening to the debate. It is
disgraceful that public money is being used and wasted. Hampshire
County Council supported the installation and has done everything
it can to help me across the constituency. This is not any fault
of the council, and I am grateful for its support. Trooli’s
behaviour has been appalling, and I would welcome the Minister’s
advice on how I can put this right. I will also ask Ofcom to look
at the matter.
This community will be included in the procurement scheme, with
CityFibre hooking it up in future. However, the community cannot
be left without provision in the meantime, though I hope it will
be prioritised for the future work. The Government-funded
Hampshire procurement is fantastic news for Meon Valley. The
technology is evolving with 5G on the way. It is vital that we
use every means of getting better broadband into our communities.
I will keep pushing Government and the private sector on this
issue, because businesses, families and schools depend on being
able to work at high speed. It is very frustrating for everyone
when it takes so long to put in.
3.14pm
(Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
It is an honour to serve under your guidance this afternoon, Mr
Dowd. I give huge thanks to the hon. Member for West Dorset
() for securing this important
debate and for making an important and valuable introduction. I
pretty much agree with everything everybody has said so far. I
want to endorse what is being said.
The reality is that rural communities are not able to access
equal coverage—not only broadband, but other forms of modern
connectivity. That puts us and our residents at a significant
disadvantage. If we think about health, for example, to live in a
rural community is to put oneself at greater risk of not being
able to access telemedicine. If we think about our general
wellbeing, to be more isolated is a dangerous thing. Last week in
this place we discussed isolation and loneliness and the impact
on the mental health of people of all ages, particularly older
people. To be cut off and not able to access modern
communications—broadband and other forms of digital
communication—is both dangerous and unfair.
When it comes to education in the lakes and the dales, the Eden
valley and Westmorland are beautiful and isolated places with
schools as small as a dozen or so children in some cases, and
high schools with fewer than 200 children. Those young people
have to do their homework. They have to be able to access
technology at home to be able to research, study and complete
assignments on time. That goes for people studying in our area
who are at the University of Cumbria, or who are studying
elsewhere around the country but living at home in and around the
lakes and the dales.
I think about the business community: one in four people of
working age in our communities in Westmorland work for
themselves. We have a hugely disproportionately high number of
people who are self-employed or working for themselves in other
ways—freelancing, and so on. It is important not only that people
have access to high-quality broadband and other forms of
connectivity, but that the access is symmetrical: upload speeds
should be as accessible as good download speeds. To say nothing
of entertainment, frankly the people of Westmorland and Lonsdale
have as much right to be able to witness the indifferent and
erratic form of Blackburn Rovers via their television screens as
anybody else in the country—hurrah for the three points we
scraped last night. To be serious, we are now in a world where it
is taken for granted that we have that sort of access. In
communities like those of pretty much all of us here today, that
is not the case. We are gathered here because we believe that and
it is our experience locally.
I have a couple of related non-broadband points that others have
also raised. According to Vodafone, my communities are in the
bottom 2% for mobile connectivity, so broadband is not the only
issue. Others have talked about Digital Voice. I was in the
debate this morning led so admirably by my right hon. Friend the
Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael). Only a week and a
half ago, much of Cumbria was completely snowed in and blocked.
We had all sorts of impacts when it came to electricity being
down. If your electricity is down, so is your router—you ain’t
got no broadband; your digital access has gone. Maintaining that
copper backstop is a lifesaver. We are used to extreme weather in
my neck of the woods and we toughed it out, but there were people
who were not vulnerable at the beginning of that experience but
became vulnerable by the end of it, simply because so much
depends on digital access. When it is wiped out, people are
seriously vulnerable.
Let me say something about Project Gigabit. It is absolutely
right that rural communities as a whole are left behind when it
comes to connectivity of all kinds, and this Government need to
bear a significant amount of responsibility for the failure to
tackle that. One broadly positive thing that they are doing is
Project Gigabit. I do not want to say that there is anything
wrong with what the project is doing; I am concerned about some
of what it is not doing. There are 61,000 properties in Cumbria
within the scope of Project Gigabit. We know that at least 1,000
of those will not get connected within that in-scope area. Those
are the very difficult-to-reach places.
Many people in and around the communities of Sedbergh—Sedbergh
town itself, and the communities just beyond it—are now deeply
concerned that they will be among the properties that are in
scope, but not connected, which seems wrong. To go back to what I
said about symmetrical access, we also know that the access and
connectivity given to many homes connected by Project Gigabit
might mean very high download speeds, but low upload speeds,
which is a huge problem for people who are studying or in
business.
I want to highlight again some of those people who are likely to
be in scope but not connected. Hill farmers will almost certainly
be among that group, and they have seen a 41% decrease in their
income over the last three years under this Government. The very
people who have no money to pay for the connection themselves
will be in that tiny fraction, but that is still a significant
number of people who will be outside Project Gigabit.
In my last minute, I want to talk about those properties that
will be in what is called “deferred scope”. They are not being
connected via Project Gigabit now, but they may be in the
future—the next two, three or four years. I was at a meeting in
Murton village hall on that very snowed-in weekend with the
communities of Murton, Hilton, Ormside, Warcop and the
surrounding areas, which are places in the “deferred scope”.
Were the Government to be flexible and allow the return of the
voucher scheme, a wonderful community interest company, which I
mentioned here before, called B4RN—Broadband for the Rural
North—will be able to provide £33 a month access, with gigabit
upload and download for absolutely everybody and with 100% of
properties within scope. All it takes is for the Minister to
agree to the ask that I have made of the Secretary of State in
the last few days: that the Government would, through BDUK,
re-offer the vouchers for those communities and be flexible, so
that those communities are connected to the best speed at the
best connection as quickly as possible.
There are so many pressures facing rural communities—house
prices, the loss of housing stock as second homes and Airbnbs
take over, a decline in school numbers, and therefore often a
decline in communities themselves. We need to tackle all those
things separately, but hyper-fast broadband for all parts of
rural communities is one way to fight back against the isolation
and deprivation in so many of our communities.
3.22pm
(Somerton and Frome) (LD)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Dowd, and to
speak in this vital debate; I congratulate the hon. Member for
West Dorset () on securing it.
In the modern world, access to the internet is of the utmost
importance, yet I worry that those in the hardest-to-reach areas
are being left behind. The digital divide has stark impacts on
rural communities and on their education and access to services.
I have spoken previously about the impacts of the loss of
in-person services on rural communities, yet if the online
methods of accessing these services are inaccessible, many of my
most vulnerable constituents will miss out.
For example, from March 2024, Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
services will no longer be available in post offices, which will
disproportionately affect rural communities. Many bank branches,
as we have heard already today, will close across my
constituency, leaving customers having to travel further to
access banking services or to rely on their broadband
connectivity at home, which is rather lacking.
In Somerton and Frome, 4.6% of people—over five times the
national average—have broadband speeds below the legal universal
service obligation. Nearly a quarter of Somerton and Frome is in
a 5G notspot, and 39 postcode areas in my constituency are in a
3G notspot. Many constituents struggle to access services online
given their sluggish broadband speeds. Although I welcome some of
the Government’s actions to improve rural broadband and mobile
connectivity in rural communities, we need to go further to help
those in the hardest-to-reach areas.
In Berkley Marsh, just outside of Frome, one constituent faces
the very real prospect of having no internet provision next year.
They are dependent on wireless broadband from Voneus and a BT
landline, with the latter switching off next year. They will be
left with broadband speeds of 250 kbps. Another internet provider
wanted to supply fibre to their home, but they are being
frustrated by other providers. That highlights the plight of
those in hard-to-reach areas. It will affect businesses,
residents and consumers alike.
Langport and Long Sutton in my constituency are in the worst 10%
of areas in the UK for superfast broadband availability.
Businesses in Langport suffer from poor internet speeds and
struggle to use new and efficient digital solutions. Somerton and
Frome has hundreds of agricultural businesses, many of which
suffer from woeful broadband speeds, inadequate for them to carry
out the multitude of necessary online tasks. The Government
estimate that there will be fewer than 100,000 very hard-to-reach
premises, but their delivery costs are likely to be above the
limits of commercial investment cases, the gap funding approach
to Project Gigabit, and the broadband universal service
obligation’s reasonable cost threshold. This makes these premises
commercially unattractive, which has been heard already
today.
Digital isolation has a debilitating impact on our communities.
It stifles growth and often means that vibrant rural businesses
move away or simply do not locate to the area in the first
place.
Would the hon. Lady, my constituency neighbour, agree that the
universal service obligation is often used by some providers as
an excuse for not actually having to carry out their commitments?
Would she also agree that it appears there is almost some sort of
cartel-like behaviour going on with mobile providers and
broadband providers? Indeed, we shall be exploring some of these
things in a debate in the House tomorrow, which I think is about
Vodafone and others. Our constituents are paying the price and
not getting what the universal service obligation says they
should.
Clearly, given many of the comments heard today, I would agree
with the hon. Gentleman. We need to put more focus on the very
hard-to-reach places, particularly in rural areas, to reduce the
digital divide and ensure that no one is left behind. I hope the
Government are listening to rural areas, and I look forward to
seeing progress happen in Somerton and Frome.
3.27pm
(Angus) (SNP)
It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Dowd. I am very
grateful to the hon. Member for West Dorset (), who I know to be an
outstanding parliamentarian and a Conservative for whom I have
some measure of affection. I will go no further than that.
This is a really important issue. I have no need, much less wish,
to cause any more pain to the rural English MPs who have turned
up here today to cite the very real challenges faced by their
constituents in accessing what is essentially a vital utility
like any other in the world that we live in today. However, I
want to highlight what the Scottish Government have done, first
to demonstrate how outstanding the Scottish Government are, but
secondly to demonstrate how much it costs to supplement the
woeful service levels of the UK Government. It is the UK
Government, not the Scottish Government, who are responsible for
broadband in Scotland.
Nevertheless, we in Scotland are not prepared to sit by and watch
our communities and enterprise suffer while waiting for
Westminster to act. That is why the Scottish National party-ruled
Scottish Government’s reaching 100% superfast broadband
commitment will ensure that everyone who wants superfast
broadband has access to it, extending full-fibre broadband across
some of the hardest-to-reach rural communities in Scotland. As I
mentioned, this is reserved to the Westminster Government, but
the Scottish Government committed to enabling access to superfast
broadband—speeds of at least 30 Mbps —to every home and business
by 2021, now upgraded to a new commitment to make the connections
30 times faster than originally stated. Connections will be
delivered on a rolling basis under R100—reaching 100%—contracts,
which are expected to be completed in 2028. Around 99% of the
connections being delivered by the Scottish Government through
R100 contracts are full-fibre capable and able to deliver speeds
of up to 1000 Mbps.
That commitment is being delivered via three strands. First,
there is £600 million in R100 contracts, delivered through a
partnership with the UK Government. One would think that the
Government responsible for delivering that would put in the
bigger element, but no: the Scottish Government are putting in
£550 million and the UK Government are putting in slightly less
than £50 million. I say to the hon. Member for West Dorset, whose
pain I feel after his intervention on the hon. Member for
Tiverton and Honiton (): £8 million to ensure that
hard-to-reach properties are supported to achieve such
connectivity is chicken feed. It will not even look at it; we
need to invest vastly bigger sums. So that is the scale of the
inaction and the challenge that is commensurate with that
inaction.
The R100 Scottish broadband voucher scheme will help those that
want access to the R100 principal scheme. The voucher helps
people connect to superfast broadband in northern Scotland. Those
not covered by R100 can apply for a one-off £5,000 voucher to
help them set up a permanent suitable connection for themselves.
Above that, a £400 interim voucher is available to those for whom
it is known that R100 will benefit them in time, but not yet.
To date the Scottish Government have invested £1 billion of
public funding to transform Scotland’s digital connectivity
through the Digital Scotland superfast broadband and reaching
100% programmes, and improving mobile connectivity through the
Scottish 4G infill programme. That is not our responsibility. I
say that again because it is so important.
The Scottish Government’s Digital Scotland superfast broadband
programmes have already connected about 1 million properties
across Scotland to faster broadband. It should not be viewed as a
cost; it should be viewed by the UK Government as an investment,
because it is viewed in Scotland as such. We believe, and can
demonstrate, that every £1 invested in the Digital Scotland
connectivity programme delivers £12 to the Scottish economy. That
same R100 programme has also delivered full subsea cables. The
hon. Member for West Dorset and colleagues from the south-west
and north-west have demonstrated that their topography and
geography is particularly challenging, but so is that of the
Orkney and Shetland islands. The roll-out of superfast broadband
is taking place there as well.
There is lots of disdain for Openreach, but in response to the
investment that the Scottish Government have put in, Openreach is
building full fibre faster and further now and reaching around
60,000 new premises every week—equivalent to a town the size of
Livingston in West Lothian. That means passing another home or
business with ultrafast gigabit-capable broadband every 10
seconds.
It is important to realise that I am here as the SNP’s
spokesperson, but also as somebody who represents a rural
constituency. Although larger towns and villages are benefiting,
it is not the case in my glens. It is not the case in Glen Doll,
Glen Prosen or Glen Isla that the digital speeds are being
realised, so it is absolutely essential that the UK Government
regulations and legislation support the Scottish Government’s
ambition to be a truly digital nation.
I rarely get a response from a Minister in Westminster Hall, so I
am hopeful that the Minister will break that cycle this
afternoon. I should be grateful to know what the Scottish
Government will receive from the UK Government’s £5 billion
earmarked for investment in gigabit-capable infrastructure,
because the Scottish Government continue to urge the UK
Government to extend the gigabit networks to Scotland’s rural
communities where the challenges remain manifest. As I say again,
perhaps for the sixth time, telecoms is an entirely reserved
matter.
Economic growth in Scotland’s islands and rural locations is
being curtailed by the slowest broadband speeds in the UK. That
does not help rural communities in the south-west or north-west,
but it is a challenge that the UK Government must step up to.
3.34pm
Sir (Rhondda) (Lab)
It is universally acknowledged that you are the snappiest dresser
in the House, Mr Dowd, so it is great to see you in your place
here today. I feel very odd—in the past few weeks, I have been to
both the cinema and the theatre with the Minister and I am now in
a debate with him for the second time today. There is to be
another debate today, though I cannot be there. I do feel as if I
am spending more time with the Minister than is good for my
marriage. I do not think he will break with any precedent by
answering any questions today, but we will try.
I commend the hon. Member for West Dorset () on securing this debate. This
is the second time we have debated this precise issue, but it is
important to keep on fighting the battle. He may have caught the
Minister and me smiling or laughing a bit because the hon.
Gentleman referred to Ofcom and network coverage issues and both
I am the Minister made the same point during the earlier
debate—that, quite often, Ofcom’s version of reality is so
different from the experience of ordinary people that it really
is time that Ofcom and the providers looked much more carefully
at how they present what they purport to be evidence of
coverage.
Likewise, the Minister will no doubt say—he announced it this
morning—that he is putting the PSTN switchover on pause, which is
a good idea. He referred to several other matters where the
Government are taking action because there are very legitimate
concerns about how the switchover will affect the provision of
quite a lot of services. Indeed, following this morning’s debate,
the Minister will be delighted to know that I have tabled
questions to ask him how many traffic lights in the UK depend on
PSTN. I look forward to hearing his answers.
The hon. Member for West Dorset referred to Stoke Abbott, which
was thus described in 1906:
“as pretty a village as any in Dorset.”
I was delighted to be in Bridport a few weeks ago with his
predecessor, , who has a slightly different
view of the present Government from him, I think.
It is always good to have the hon. Member for Strangford (). We missed him this morning; I believe he was at the
Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. He made an important point
about livestock: most farmers must have some kind of digital
connectivity simply to do their job. They cannot pretend to be
Gabriel Oak and Bathsheba Everdene from “Far from the Madding
Crowd”; to make a living in agriculture, one must have a modern
farm.
The hon. Member for North Devon () is absolutely doughty on
these issues. I feel as if I have lived in her kitchen now,
because this is the second time I have heard the stories about
her hubs and her platelets or whatever it is that she had to have
installed. She was determined to find some positive news, but
mostly came out with negative news. There are real problems for
anyone who wants to be able to deliver. As she herself said, no
one will lay fibre 5 miles down a lane to a single house, so
other options must be available. She referred to satellite.
Obviously, we want to see much greater technical innovation in
this field so that no one is left out.
The hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton () complained about the
Government’s lackadaisical attitude. I have heard him make some
of his speech before, but there is no danger in repetition—that
is the only way one ever gets anything done in politics, so I
commend him for that.
The hon. Member for Meon Valley (Mrs Drummond) is a wonderful
swimmer, as I know because I recruited her to the parliamentary
swimming team, and she had a list of people who had been kind of
given preferential treatment. If someone in a community needs to
have more than superfast broadband in order to do their job but
the whole community does not get the same, that can be a
problem.
Mrs Drummond
Let me just qualify that: only two public servants, who I did not
mention, got fast broadband. The ones I mentioned did not get
fast broadband. I was explaining that they were equally
important. I did not mention the ones who got fast broadband for
obvious reasons—I think they are quite embarrassed about getting
fast broadband before their neighbours. There are huge numbers of
very important people who also need it.
Sir
If I got anything faster than anyone else on my street, I think
my neighbours would lynch me.
It would be a good excuse.
Sir
No, it is not a good excuse and that is not a very good argument
to make.
I concur with the point made by the hon. Member for Meon Valley
about the head of Openreach. It is important that major
corporations, which broadly speaking have not far off a monopoly
position in the UK, respond to Members of Parliament as swiftly
and directly as possible and do not simply pass the buck. The
hon. Lady also made a very good point about the need for better
co-operation between all the different operators in this field,
because now, with all the “old-nets”—I fully support competition
within the market—there is a danger, which I will discuss a
little later, that if there is not co-operation there will be a
complete and utter muddle.
I think I have heard some of the speech by the hon. Member for
Westmorland and Lonsdale () before, too, and again I commend him for repetition;
it is not something ever to complain about in politics. He made
two really important points. The first was that being isolated is
a dangerous place to be in the modern world. If we think about an
elderly person who relies on mobile connectivity to connect to
her relatives, who might be on the other side of the world, or to
healthcare providers, that is evident, and the point is extremely
well made. He also made a point about hill farmers. Funnily
enough, when I had a farm in the Rhondda, which was on a hill, I
had the best connectivity I have ever had, but that was purely
and simply because the mast was almost immediately opposite my
house.
The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome () made a very important point
about Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency or DVLA services no
longer being available in post offices. Soon, my constituency
will no longer have a bank at all—no bank whatsoever. Of course
lots of people are using digital banking services today, but
sometimes it is necessary for someone to go physically to a bank,
to prove their identity and so on. Banks will need to go a
considerable further distance to make some things available
online that currently people cannot do online; because of the
distances involved in travelling in rural areas, the present
situation is simply problematic. However, even if that happens,
people need full access to a broadband connection; otherwise,
they are simply unable to continue their business.
I think that Vintage Ghetto is the hon. Lady’s business, or
perhaps one of her businesses; I do not know. Vintage Ghetto has
some very fine things online, if anybody wants to go shopping
before Christmas. However, I simply note that it will be
difficult for people to pursue that kind of business, which many
people in rural areas now do, without having a really strong
broadband connection.
Finally, there was the contribution by the hon. Member for Angus
(). I would have laid a bet that
he would refer to what the Scottish Government have done and
condemn the Westminster Government for not doing what the
Scottish Government have done. I could point out that the Welsh
Government have often intervened in the same way in Wales to
address some of the problems that we have in rural areas.
However, the truth is that we need a whole-UK answer to all these
issues, and I will give some of the reasons why in a moment.
Broadband is not just important in rural areas but absolutely
vital—for building or growing a business; for running a farm or,
for that matter, diversifying an agricultural business, for
instance by allowing tourism; for doing homework or, for that
matter, doing university study; for providing healthcare and
local services; and, frankly, for growing up, by allowing
children to talk to their friends online, play a video game or
download a film.
Members have talked a lot about the haves and the have-nots in
this field. Members may not be aware that the phrase “haves and
have-nots” originally comes from “Don Quixote”. It is when Sancho
Panza says:
“There are two kinds of people in this world, my grandmother used
to say—the haves and the have-nots. And she stuck to the haves.
And today, Señor Don Quixote, people are more interested in
having than in knowing. An ass covered with gold makes a better
impression than a horse with a packsaddle.”
I quote that extract because one of my concerns about the way
that we are developing in relation to broadband and digital
connectivity in this country is that we get a bit too focused on
the “having” rather than on the “using”. Indeed, my biggest
concern as an MP who represents one of the poorest constituencies
not only in the UK but in Europe, is the affordability issue.
I have raised this issue in a previous debate and I know that the
Minister has similar concerns. There are social tariffs. They are
almost unknown to most of the people who might be able to take
them up. One local council—maybe several councils now, but
certainly Sunderland City Council wrote to everybody in its area
about social tariffs. The council had the information on who
qualifies for universal credit and who therefore qualifies for a
social tariff, so it wrote to everybody concerned and that drove
up the take-up of social tariffs. However, when 18% of poorer
homes in the country—in my patch, I suspect the percentage is
even higher—do not have any internet to home at all, even when
superfast broadband or gigabit capability is available, that is
going to be a long-term problem for levelling up, for all the
reasons that the hon. Member for West Dorset gave earlier. It is
not levelling up if people simply cannot afford to take something
up.
Secondly, as several Members have said, many people are not
taking up better connectivity, either because it is too expensive
or because they simply do not understand what the benefit might
be to them. When we and the industry bang on about
gigabit-capable, megabits per second, superfast or fast broadband
and all the rest of it, that is not a sell to an ordinary
household. People want to know what they will be able to do that
they could not do previously and therefore why they need it.
There is a real marketing problem across the whole of the UK that
we need to address if we really are to drive up take-up,
otherwise the danger is that all the companies will be making
massive investments but getting no return. That is when the whole
situation may get into trouble.
I worry about the exclusion of certain areas and categories of
people. I have asked the Minister this before and I ask him
again: how are we doing on new contracts for Project Gigabit?
When I asked him the last time we met, he said that more were
going to be let in the next few months. It would be interesting
to know precisely how that is going.
My other concern is this: competition is a really good thing, but
not if it turns every street into the wild west. In just the last
few weeks, in my own patch—particularly in Tonypandy, CF40—lots
of different companies have been digging up the roads again and
again. People are sick of it. It is happening not just in
Kingston upon Hull but in lots of different places in the
country. I worry that the system, through Ofcom’s powers, is not
strong enough to ensure that there is proper co-operation. One
complaint I had said:
“You will have seen road closures without relevant permissions
being granted, poor reinstatement of pavements, mud-laden
streets, poor communications with residents and tardy
workmanship.”
I am fully in favour of companies such as Ogi rolling out
gigabit-capable broadband in my patch, but I also want to see
rational co-operation between the different organisations.
Finally, the Minister will know that the Government’s digital
strategy is now more than a decade old. In fact, the online
version has references to websites and programmes that no longer
exist, so I think it is time for a new Government digital
strategy. After the Government responded to the House of Lords
digital exclusion report, Baroness Stowell, who is a Conservative
Member of the House of Lords, said that the failure to come up
with a new Government digital strategy
“suggests a reluctance to dedicate political attention and
departmental resource to this matter”,
and the Communications and Digital Committee in the House of
Lords said:
“The Government’s contention that digital exclusion is a priority
is not credible.”
I therefore hope that the Government will announce today that
they will start consultation on a new Government digital
strategy.
I will end with some questions. I have asked these questions
before, but the Minister did not answer them. Have I run out of
time?
(in the Chair)
indicates assent.
Sir
I have run out of time. I asked them last time: perhaps the
Minister will answer them this time.
(in the Chair)
I thank the hon. Member for his contribution, particularly the
opening part.
3.48pm
The Minister for Data and Digital Infrastructure (Sir )
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. I
thank all hon. Members who have taken part in the debate. The
fact that we have had such strong attendance is, I think, an
indication of the importance that Members from across the country
attach to this issue.
Obviously, I am particularly grateful to my hon. Friend the
Member for West Dorset () for securing the debate. As
he knows, I was born and grew up in his constituency, so I am
very familiar both with the beauty of West Dorset and with its
extremely rural nature—not just that of West Dorset but of
Somerton and Frome and of Tiverton and Honiton, both of which I
know well from my childhood.
I think we all recognise how ultrafast broadband at the very
least, if not gigabit, is becoming an essential of modern life.
That applies right across the UK, whether you live in a built-up
urban area or a rural community, and the Government are committed
to delivering gigabit broadband across the whole of the UK.
That is being done very rapidly by the commercial sector, but the
Government recognise that it is necessary to supplement that with
public support in order to extend coverage to areas that are not
commercially viable. That is why we pledged to achieve 85%
gigabit coverage of the UK by 2025 and nationwide coverage by
2030. Already today, more than 79% of premises can access
gigabit-capable networks, up from 6% in January 2019. When I took
up my position in May, I think we were at 76%, so the figures are
still rising every day. Obviously, as we seek to hit the target,
it becomes harder, because we are dealing with harder-to-reach
premises, but the UK is building gigabit networks faster than any
EU country.
The commercial roll-out is key. We are doing what we can to make
it easy and attractive for firms to build their networks in the
UK. There was reference to Openreach having a near-monopoly.
Openreach is obviously the major supplier, but there is also
Virgin Media O2, which is the other major fibre network provider,
alongside over 100 out-net providers that are investing over £40
billion to roll out gigabit-capable broadband right across the
UK. We regard that as the fastest and best value for the
taxpayer, because it means that we can focus Government funding
on the harder-to-reach areas.
I think my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset mentioned cases
in which some companies had accepted contracts and then failed to
deliver on the terms that they had agreed. We monitor the
performance of every supplier, and if companies fail to deliver
contracts, the contracts will be terminated and we will seek
alternatives. We have tried to ensure that Project Gigabit is
designed to deliver coverage in all areas of the UK, rather than
leaving the hardest-to-reach areas until last. That adds to the
coverage that is already being delivered through the superfast
programme.
Our funding has already enabled gigabit connections to over
900,000 premises, and we forecast the figure to be over 1 million
by the end of March next year. Of those premises, over 700,000
were classified as sub-superfast, so the vast majority of our
investment is going into the communities that need it most. In
the last year, we have delivered gigabit-capable broadband to
over 160,000 premises, 90% of which are classified as rural. We
have already announced 15 Project Gigabit contracts in places
such as Cornwall, Cumbria, Norfolk, Suffolk, Oxfordshire and
Northumberland, and a further 24 local and regional procurements
are under way—plus our cross-regional approach, which includes
areas across England and Wales.
The hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir ) raised the important issue of
the public switched telephone network, which, as he mentioned, we
also debated this morning. As we move to full-fibre broadband,
the old copper network becomes unviable and is being retired. The
Government were clear from the start that we would allow
migration from copper to voice over internet protocol on full
fibre only as long as we were absolutely sure that those
customers who relied on copper—particularly the most vulnerable
and especially those with, for instance, telecare devices—were
properly protected. Unfortunately, there have been a couple of
incidents in which telecare customers have found that their
devices have not worked, which is completely unacceptable. That
is why, as the hon. Gentleman indicated, we said this morning
that we are pausing the migration. We are holding a roundtable
tomorrow with all communication providers to get absolute
guarantees that they will migrate their customers only if they
can be certain that the most vulnerable are properly
protected.
Let me turn to the constituencies of hon. Members who have
contributed to the debate. My hon. Friend the Member for West
Dorset will be aware that, according to the latest statistics,
97% of premises in West Dorset have access to superfast speeds.
That is in line with the national average, but I accept that, in
terms of future-proofing, we are looking to extend gigabit
coverage, which still stands at only 45% in West Dorset. Given
that it was only 4% in 2019, we are making good progress. West
Dorset is included in Project Gigabit’s Dorset and South Somerset
regional procurement, which we launched in May, and we are
looking at reviewing bids from suppliers. It is our hope to award
a contract for that in the spring, and we estimate that under
that contract several thousand premises in West Dorset are set to
benefit.
The hon. Member for Strangford () rightly recognised the extraordinary progress that
has been made in Northern Ireland. With 94% gigabit coverage, it
is ahead of all the other nations of the UK. Beyond that, we have
Project Stratum, which is investing £170 million to reach another
85,000 premises with gigabit broadband. The hon. Gentleman raised
some specific points, and I know that he has written to me on
them. I will respond to him with a detailed answer to the
questions that he raises.
My hon. Friend the Member for North Devon () has been very active in
pursuing me and Government. She will be aware that in North Devon
at the moment there is roughly 95% superfast coverage and 54%
gigabit coverage, but there are still premises in her
constituency that are without. She will be aware that we are
looking at the cross-regional procurement contract covering West
and North Devon, which should ensure that certainly a large
number of the 2,500 premises that do not have adequate broadband
will be covered. For the hardest-to-reach premises, we are
looking at alternatives—such as, for instance, satellite
provision.
The situation in Tiverton and Honiton has been raised by the hon.
Member for Tiverton and Honiton () not just in this debate,
but in the past. Again, I am conscious that there are patches in
his constituency that have not been reached. We think that 230
premises do not have a broadband speed of 10 megabits per second
or indoor 4G coverage, and those are obviously ones that we are
concentrating on, but in the particular case of the village of
Northleigh, the voucher scheme there has now been given the
go-ahead.
3.56pm
Sitting suspended for Divisions in the House.
4.20pm
On resuming—
Sir
I shall endeavour not to delay the House for too much longer,
because I am aware that debates are backing up—like a queue of
buses or something.
I want to address one or two points that other Members raised in
the debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Meon Valley (Mrs
Drummond) raised a particular issue in her constituency. Again,
72.7% are currently able to receive gigabit broadband in her
constituency. A small number of premises are definitely lacking
both decent broadband and mobile coverage, and obviously they
will be our priority. We will take away the point she raised
about Trooli, and BDUK will be in touch with her, once it has
looked into that.
The hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale () has indeed raised that particular issue before, and I
will endeavour to ensure that we get specific answers for him.
Equally, a small number of premises in the constituency of the
hon. Member for Somerton and Frome ()—again, a constituency I know
very well—are also currently outside. The vast majority in each
of these cases will, we hope, be covered by either the commercial
sector or Project Gigabit, although there will still be some
hardest-to-reach premises, for which we will look at the
alternatives.
I want to touch on the position in Scotland, to respond to the
hon. Member for Angus ()—who I do not think is back
with us yet—and put it on the record that, while R100 is
administered by the Scottish Government, Project Gigabit,
although funded from the UK Government, is delivered through the
Scottish Government. It has taken longer than we would have
liked. However, I am in touch with my opposite number in the
Scottish Government and can tell the House that, of the £5
billion that the Government are putting into Project Gigabit, an
estimated £450 million is to go to the Scottish Government, and
we currently have a market engagement exercise under way.
Hon. Members have also rightly touched on the importance of
mobile coverage and the efforts made to extend 4G coverage. As
the hon. Member for Rhondda observed, the complaint that has been
heard—that Ofcom’s estimate of the existing extent of mobile
coverage does not match people’s actual experience—is one that we
are very much aware of. We have raised it with Ofcom, and we very
much wish to improve the accuracy of the existing statistics.
The hon. Gentleman, speaking for the Opposition, raised three
issues, on which I agree with him completely. I would like to
make it clear that we are disappointed that the take-up of social
tariffs has not been greater, and we are working particularly
with colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions to try to
draw attention to their availability.
Sir
One thing that I have suggested to Ministers in that Department
is that DWP could simply include a reference to social tariffs in
any letter to anyone in receipt of universal credit or any other
benefits.
Sir
I think that is a perfectly sensible suggestion. Indeed, it is
one that I hope the Minister for Employment, my hon. Friend the
Member for Bury St Edmunds (), might already be pursuing; if not, I will draw it
to her attention.
The wider issue of take-up is terribly important because, to get
expressions of interest and bids from the out-net to obtain
contracts under Project Gigabit will depend on being able to
attract customers to take that up when it becomes available, and
we are looking at other ways in which we can promote take-up.
Finally, the hon. Member for Rhondda raised an issue that
features quite a lot in my postbag, which is telegraph poles. I
understand the frustration of people who may have existing
broadband suppliers but then see another competitor wishing to
install telegraph poles. We are talking to Ofcom and local
authorities about that. I hope that I have managed to address
most of the points raised. It is always a pleasure debating the
hon. Gentleman. I suspect this will be the last time I shall do
so in my present capacity—
Sir
No!
Sir
I am very touched. That is because my hon. Friend the Member for
Hornchurch and Upminster () will be returning after
Christmas.
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