Asked by Baroness Randerson To ask His Majesty’s Government what
are their plans to simplify rail fares; and what steps they are
taking to increase confidence among passengers that, when they
purchase tickets, they will always receive the best value for their
requirements. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State,
Department for Transport (Lord Davies of Gower) (Con) My Lords, the
plan for rail proposes the biggest shake-up of rail in a
generation. We have...Request free
trial
Asked by
To ask His Majesty’s Government what are their plans to simplify
rail fares; and what steps they are taking to increase confidence
among passengers that, when they purchase tickets, they will
always receive the best value for their requirements.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Transport () (Con)
My Lords, the plan for rail proposes the biggest shake-up of rail
in a generation. We have already made progress on fares reform,
for example, introducing flexible season tickets and delivering
on our commitment to extend single-leg pricing to most of LNER’s
network. We announced earlier this year that we would deliver
pay-as-you-go to 53 more stations in the south-east and, through
trailblazer devolution deals, pay-as-you-go pilots in Greater
Manchester and the West Midlands.
(LD)
My Lords, following the fiasco of the Government’s proposed
closure of all ticket offices, which was of course resoundingly
rejected by the travelling public, we urgently need decisive
action to improve rail services. Great British
Railways has, it seems, been kicked into the long grass but
one aspect, ticketing reforms, to which the Minister’s Answer
refers, could be done now throughout the whole network without
legislation. The one isolated trial and the Government’s plans
simply are not good enough to create the reform that is needed,
to restore passengers’ trust and to improve value for money. When
do the Government plan to introduce single-leg pricing and the
overall reform throughout the whole network?
(Con)
At the Bradshaw address, we committed to expand single-leg
pricing to most of LNER’s network, and this went live on 11 June
2023. This delivers simpler, more flexible tickets that are
better value. Passengers can now get the best value ticket for
their journey, safe in the knowledge that a single ticket will be
half the price of a return. Previously, some single tickets on
LNER trains, for example, cost almost as much as a return.
Single-leg pricing is much simpler, putting the price of a single
ticket at around half the cost of the old return ticket.
(Lab)
My Lords, I am interested in the Minister’s comment. Would he
care to comment on the following experience? Recently, I booked a
standard return ticket on the west coast main line and was told I
could not have reserved seats without trading in the tickets and
buying two single ones at a cost of £25 more.
I cannot particularly comment on that one issue, but I am sorry
to hear of the noble Lord’s experience and it is certainly
something I will take back.
(Con)
My Lords, as someone who is infrequent on the rail service, as a
Londoner, when I do travel I enjoy the experience. What I have
seen over the last few years is increased digitisation and more
tickets being purchased online. I think we should welcome that,
the ease of fares that are being seen online and the work being
done by the train operating companies. Another thing I have
noticed is that, as personal experience shows, if there are
delays and challenges on the rail network then refunds are being
offered quite easily—or advertised, at least, to be offered quite
easily. The process itself, though, feels a bit more complex,
because I have not yet been able to attain one of those refunds.
Will the Government and my noble friend look at how we could
automate refunds, to make that better for the user
experience?
My noble friend makes a very good point and, as somebody who has
made several applications for refunds online, it is not the
simplest of processes. Indeed, for those less acquainted with
computers and software, it is even more difficult. I take his
point and it is something that, again, I will take back.
(PC)
My Lords, I draw the attention of the Minister to the experience
of evening travellers from Euston to north Wales—the Bangor and
Holyhead line operated by Avanti services—who, incredibly, might
find that there are no through tickets from Euston to Bangor
using tickets booked in advance. If, on the same train, a ticket
is purchased from Euston to Chester and another from Chester to
Bangor, there is availability. Would I be unduly cynical in
thinking there is some manipulation going on to try and
rationalise the services?
(Con)
I hear what the noble Lord says, and I think that I will take
that one back as well.
(Lab)
Does the Minister recognise that as long ago as 2019 the
Government accepted that there was chaos in the present rail fare
structures about which something had to be done? The answer was
to set up Great British Railways
which would have new powers to deal with this question. Given the
urgency of getting more passengers back on the railway, given the
rise in public subsidy to the railways from £4 billion to £13
billion in four years, why have the Government ducked doing
this?
(Con)
Well, again, I will—
(Lab)
Take it back?
(Con)
Not on this occasion. My Lords, we are focusing on delivering for
passengers and customers by integrating new opportunities, such
as, as I said earlier, the recently announced £36 billion of
funding for Network North, fares and ticketing reform and
improving accessibility, as well as delivering the £44 billion
settlement for Network Rail to support the safe and efficient
running of the network for customers between 2024 and 2029.
Securing a slot for pre-legislative scrutiny of the draft rail
reform Bill demonstrates the Government’s real commitment to our
railways.
(Con)
My Lords, I welcome my noble friend to his post. I have some
sympathy with him as far as rail ticketing is concerned, because
everybody thinks it should be reformed if it means they get
cheaper tickets. The simple fact is that as long as the Treasury
has the control that it does over the rail companies, which is
greater now than it has ever been, through the department, then
we will not make much progress on this matter. When does he
expect to see the results of LNER’s experiment? Does he think
this can be rolled out more quickly than presently planned?
(Con)
I hope that this can be rolled out as quickly as it possibly can
be, but again, I am afraid I cannot give a definitive answer at
this point.
(Lab)
My Lords, would the Minister join me in congratulating the RMT
trade union on exposing the scale of underclaiming of
compensation for delayed and cancelled trains, and the scale of
profiteering by apps such as Trainline? Does he agree with the
great majority of public opinion that believes it is high time
that the public good was put ahead of private profit in respect
of ownership of our railways?
(Con)
I thank the noble Baroness for her question. The rail industry is
in a difficult financial position. The department has spent in
the region of £31 billion of taxpayers’ money. That amounts to
about £1,000 per household in 2020-21 and 2021-22, since the
pandemic. Reforming the rail network is critical to improve the
passenger experience and to ensure the financial and operational
sustainability of the railway. The industry has put forward fair
and reasonable deals, offering job security and a fair pay rise.
Government funding has been secured to facilitate important
reforms of the railway. However, agreeing pay increases has to be
linked to taking forward these important reforms.
(Con)
Will my noble friend bring his undoubted acumen to bear, in
addition to the rail fares, to simplifying buying tickets to park
at railway stations, where you virtually need a degree in science
to work it out?
(Con)
I must confess, I park my car every week at a station car park to
come here and I have not found any difficulty: I walk into the
station, buy a ticket and put it on my windscreen. So, I am sorry
to hear the noble Lord’s difficulty but, again, I will take that
back.
(LD)
My Lords, the Minister promises a strategy, but my noble friend’s
question was about when the benefits of the LNER trial will be
rolled out across the whole network. I do not think customers on
the whole of the network would like the Minister simply to hope
it will happen. What is the strategic objective of when it will
happen?
(Con)
I am not in a position to give that answer at the moment, I am
afraid, but when I am, I will certainly let the House know.
(Lab)
My Lords, as is well known to the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson,
and to the Minister, the trains from Swansea were again late this
morning. The first thing I do when I arrive, either in London or
in Swansea, is fill in a claim form. Can he take this up, from
his new, elevated position, with GWR?
(Con)
My Lords, this is something I can speak of with great experience,
as a regular traveller from Swansea to Paddington. The noble Lord
is absolutely right. Recent trains have been very late and
compensation has been due. I am very aware of that.
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