Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op) I beg to
move, That this House has considered the matter of hate crime
against the LGBT+ community. It is a pleasure to see you in the
Chair, Mrs Cummins. I sincerely thank all colleagues present for
attending today’s debate. I draw attention to my membership of the
all-party parliamentary group on global LGBT+ rights, my role as
co-chair of the LGBT+ parliamentary Labour party and, sadly, my own
experience...Request free trial
(Cardiff South and Penarth)
(Lab/Co-op)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the matter of hate crime against
the LGBT+ community.
It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mrs Cummins. I
sincerely thank all colleagues present for attending today’s
debate. I draw attention to my membership of the all-party
parliamentary group on global LGBT+ rights, my role as co-chair
of the LGBT+ parliamentary Labour party and, sadly, my own
experience as a victim of LGBT+ hate crime.
I begin by thanking Stonewall, Galop and many other national
organisations that speak up on these issues. Locally, in my
constituency, I think of groups such as Pride Cymru and Glitter
Cymru. I also want to mention the LGBT+ Safe Spaces venues, from
our clubs and pubs to inclusive religious venues, and places such
as the Queer Emporium in Cardiff, not to mention their brave
security staff and managers, for all they do to keep our
communities safe and welcome.
The fact is that, despite all the legal progress we have made in
this country and the rapidly changing and welcome debate,
particularly among younger generations, this is a perilous and
profoundly uncertain time for the LGBT+ community in the UK. I
would never seek to downplay the even worse threats of death and
violence, let alone the absence of basic legal rights in many
other contexts globally, but I can genuinely say that we are not
in a good place here and things are getting worse.
That view is not just anecdotal. It is borne out by clear
evidence and trends that I will come on to, and is sadly borne
out by the stark, horrific reality that we saw in the homophobic
murder of kind, compassionate Dr Gary Jenkins in my city of
Cardiff in 2021. We can all think back to the horrors of the
Admiral Duncan bombing in 1999 and the Stephen Port murders in
2014 to 2015 in east London, and all the failures around how that
case was handled.
We are all aware of ongoing and more recent incidents, but I am
conscious of the House sub judice rule and I will, therefore,
refrain from commenting on a number of them. I know that
colleagues will want to take particular care on that matter.
(Strangford) (DUP)
I commend the hon. Gentleman for bringing this matter forward.
Unfortunately, I cannot stay for the debate; I have already
informed the hon. Gentleman that I have a prior appointment. As
someone interested in human rights issues, I want to put on the
record my condemnation of those who carry out hate crimes against
anybody, wherever that happens. I fully support what the hon.
Gentleman is putting forward, which I want to put on the
record.
I thank the hon. Member for his support, which is genuinely
welcome. The cross-party group that we have here today reflects
the wide concern across the House at recently released
statistics.
I will refer to my own experiences, which are sadly all too
common for others. I have been assaulted with a homophobic
element in my own constituency in broad daylight. I have been
told online by somebody that he would sort me and my issues out
while I was at football, while posting pictures of me dressed up
at Pride. I have been called a “faggot” while walking along Queen
Street in Cardiff. Like many other members of the community, I
have worried whether it is safe to kiss my boyfriend or hold his
hand on the bus or the tube. Even as a parliamentarian on an
overseas trip, I was told to my face that people like me are
detested.
In National Hate Crime Awareness Week, rather than belittling the
impact of hate crime or suggesting that it is a “woke”
irrelevance, it is critical that we look into the impact that
attacks are having on the community, across the country, against
people who just want to love who they love, live as themselves
and get on with their daily lives. In the UK in 2023, the place
of LGBT+ people in society, and their safety and wellbeing—is it
really such a difficult thing to ask?—simply should not be
contested notions, be up for debate or, worse, lead to violence,
intimidation or assault; and yet here we are.
(Dwyfor Meirionnydd)
(PC)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this incredibly
important debate. The figures from my local police force, North
Wales police, are staggering: the number of hate crimes based on
transgender identity has surged by 771%. When we bear in mind
that it is likely that only one in 10 hate crimes are reported,
that gives us a sense of the level of suffering and the sheer
size of the problem that we have to deal with.
The right hon. Member is absolutely right to highlight not only
the increase, but the context of significant under-reporting. We
all ought to be shocked.
This is Hate Crime Awareness Week, and the reality is that hate
crime remains stubbornly high across the piece. Not least in the
current context, given the despicable incidents of antisemitism
and Islamophobic hate crime, we must rightly focus on religious
hate crime, and race-related hate crime remains stubbornly high.
That is before we consider the less looked-at but equally
important disability-related examples or, of course, the
widespread epidemic of violence against women and girls.
Despite a slight year-on-year fall in sexual orientation-based
hate crimes, the total number of anti-LGBT+ hate crimes remains
well above 2018 levels, with 28,834 recorded this year, a net
increase of 217% since 2017-18.
(Livingston) (SNP)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate and on
sharing his own personal experience. Those of us who have faced
homophobic or—as I have—lesbophobic abuse know that it takes it
out of us, quite frankly. How many more people have to share
their stories or experience violence before we see a regression?
As the hon. Gentleman has rightly said, we are talking about hate
crime in the round. Does he agree that if those at the very top
of Government make statements that attack some in our community,
that only makes it more dangerous for everyone and justifies hate
crimes against everyone?
As the hon. Member knows, I totally agree with her. The scale of
this issue is staggering. Those statistics in practice mean 79
incidents a day—one roughly every 20 minutes—in 2023. Of course,
there is better police awareness and reporting in some cases, but
there is significant under-reporting. Fewer than 10% of LGBT
people told the national LGBT survey in 2018 that they felt
comfortable reporting hate crimes to the police, so it is likely
that the statistics are a drop in the ocean.
(Vauxhall)
(Lab/Co-op)
I thank my hon. Friend for securing this really important debate.
He has just talked about some of the statistics. Does he agree
that things are even harder for LGBTQ+ black and minority ethnic
people? One of the things that was flagged up with me when I
attended Black Pride this year was that a number of people in
that community still do not feel comfortable reporting to the
police. The figures are just the tip of the iceberg.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I commend Black Pride and
many of the other organisations that do incredible work in this
area. The intersectionality of hate crime statistics should be
deeply shocking to us all.
We heard about North Wales police. My force, South Wales police,
provided me with its latest statistics. Just in the period from
October last year to September this year, the force recorded 645
hate crimes related to sexual orientation, resulting in 33
charges, and 170 reports of transgender-related hate crimes,
resulting in five charges. I am reassured by how seriously my
local force takes these issues—I have had many conversations with
it—and I have heard other positive examples while preparing for
the debate, from Avon and Somerset to Lancashire to Norfolk, but
there are significant challenges in some places. In London, the
Casey report showed that trust in the Metropolitan police has
fallen faster among LGBT+ Londoners than among non-LGBT+
Londoners. Leadership and action are far too patchy across
England; in the absence of a central hate crime strategy, they
depend too often on individual police and crime commissioners and
forces.
(Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)
(Lab)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate.
It comes at a time of a significant rise in hate crimes against
the LGBTQ+ community. I stood with the trans community in Merthyr
Tydfil with Merthyr Pride last week at a rally. My hon. Friend
mentioned the figures supplied by his police force, which is the
same as mine. Does he agree that the particularly venomous
comments from the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and other
senior Tories do nothing to support those figures and will
increase the problem further?
I greatly endorse what my hon. Friend said, and I welcome the
work of Merthyr Pride. I think that was the first such event to
take place in Merthyr, and the organisation does amazing work. I
will come on to some of the context driving this.
We have colleagues here from across the United Kingdom. The
Police Service of Northern Ireland records transphobic incidents
and crimes motivated by transphobia, but unfortunately there is
no enhanced sentencing for that motivation or hostility. We see a
more positive picture in Wales, despite the statistics. The Welsh
Labour Government’s LGBTQ+ action plan specifically covers
safety, online hate, improving reporting and investing in local
hate crime prevention programmes. In Scotland, there is a hate
crime strategy focused on data, tackling crime online and on
public transport, and supporting organisations working on these
issues.
The effects of hate crime are deep and pernicious. They can
unravel the lives of those who are among the most vulnerable in
our society, and in the worst cases lives are lost and serious
injury occurs. I pay tribute to all those who have been affected
in that way, to their families and to all victims. But for many
other victims of less violent offences, the crime itself is only
the beginning. Some 42% of victims of hate crime felt a loss of
confidence or felt vulnerable following the crime, compared with
19% for all other crimes; 29% of hate crime victims had
difficulty sleeping, in comparison with 13% for all crimes; and
34% of hate crime victims suffered from anxiety or panic attacks
compared with 14% for others.
(Somerton and Frome) (LD)
I thank the hon. Member for bringing forward this important
debate. I worry that too often the focus does not come from the
point of view of the individuals who may be subject to this type
of violence and their voices are suppressed. Does he agree that
we must remember the unique position of LGBTQ+ women in our
discussions?
Absolutely. I spoke earlier about intersectionality. When we look
at wider violence against women and girls, or violence related to
race or disability, there can be a double or triple whammy for
people experiencing violence on the basis of who they are. It is
simply unacceptable.
Given the shocking record and the shocking increases that we have
seen in recent years, it is no wonder that many LGBT+
people—people we all represent—feel less safe and more afraid to
walk down the road holding hands with their partner, to present
themselves as they wish and to remain authentic, honest versions
of themselves. But it does not have to be this way. We know that
we are capable of providing vibrant, diverse, dynamic, beautiful
and inclusive communities.
Dame (Llanelli) (Lab)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. I apologise
that I will not be able to stay until the end. We have heard from
others how the current climate has been fostered by the very
unprofessional and negative comments from some Cabinet members.
Will my hon. Friend ask the Minister what she will do to raise
that with Cabinet members and ensure that they stop making things
worse?
I wholeheartedly agree with what my hon. Friend says. It is worth
looking at the fact that in 2013 the UK was rated as the best
place in Europe for LGBT+ equality. We had taken pride over many
years in being a beacon of the furtherance of LGBT+ rights.
Indeed, there was a broad political consensus around advancing
those rights; let us not forget that it was a cross-party
coalition of Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems and other parties
represented here that passed the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act
2013. I was proud to serve on its Bill Committee.
However, today we see increasingly regressive forces in our
politics, with sometimes explicit and sometimes more insidious
attempts to divide and demonise our community; an increasingly
hostile media and online environment; the influence of globally
regressive forces, from Putin to the extreme religious right;
and, across society more broadly, others vilifying our community
and weaponising debates about our rights and, in many cases, even
our existence. Shamefully for the Government, that means that
since 2013, the UK has dropped to 14th place in the ILGA-Europe
rainbow index, lagging behind the rest of western Europe.
Where once we had Prime Ministers who took pride in Britain being
a leader on LGBT+ rights, we now see the plight of our community
demeaned to cheap punchlines or political dog whistles. Where
once we had consensus, compassion and kindness—and, indeed, legal
action—now there is division, polarisation and a perpetuation of
insidious culture wars. Quite frankly, we deserve better. Our
constituents deserve much better.
I am proud that Labour has set out the need for a different
approach—one that does not treat LGBT+ rights as a political
football or an afterthought. It is a fact that hate crimes
committed on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity and
disability are not punished as severely as those based on other
protected characteristics. I am proud that we have committed a
Labour Government to fixing that injustice by equalising the law
so that LGBT+ and, indeed, disability-related hate crimes are
treated as aggravated offences. We will provide real
accountability and assiduously pursue those who seek to harm an
individual on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender
identity.
One of the most concerning trends in recent statistics is the 11%
increase in hate crimes committed against transgender people.
Tragically, I would think that that would come as no surprise to
any of us in this room. We have all seen the way in which the
discussions around these issues have been conducted in recent
years, with escalatory rhetoric increasingly poisoning and
polarising our discourse. Of course there are valid, important
and complex issues to be discussed, but the lives and experiences
of an already small and vulnerable community are increasingly
abstracted into a reductionist zero-sum game and, in many cases,
people are dehumanised and targeted.
We see it with the rise of anti-trans rhetoric online, as well as
in cheap shots politically. We also see it quantitatively in
surveys of British public opinion. The latest British social
attitudes research reports that the proportion of British people
who describe themselves as being prejudiced against transgender
people has increased from 18% to 36% since 2019. Most alarmingly,
we see it in the sharp increase in anti-transgender hate crime,
which is up 11% in one year. In the past six months alone, Galop,
which does excellent work, has seen a 76% increase in trans
people seeking support to deal with serious incidents.
In closing, I ask the Minister for clarity in a number of areas.
First, will the Government end what the Law Commission calls a
“hierarchy of protection” and bring about real parity between
groups of all protected characteristics, or will it fall to a
Labour Government to find the courage to take that step forward?
LGBT+ people rightly feel that the current political set-up is
weighted against them because the Government have failed to make
achievable and critically necessary reforms such as introducing
an inclusive ban on conversion therapy. How can the Government
say that they are concerned with the plight of LGBT+ people while
they continue to quietly acquiesce in that abhorrent practice?
Lastly, given the shocking statistics, what specific support will
the Minister give to the trans and non-binary community? Will she
commit to stamping out the divisive and horrific rhetoric that
comes from some parts of her own Government?
4.52pm
(Carshalton and Wallington)
(Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Cummins. I
thank the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth () for bringing forward this
important debate in such a timely manner, with the release of the
latest hate crime statistics from the Home Office. It is a
pleasure to see the Minister for Equalities, my right hon. Friend
the Member for Pudsey (), in his place. I am very
grateful that he is here.
We do not have a lot of time, which is a shame because there is
so much that could be said. However, there are some important
things that I want to raise, to add to what the hon. Member for
Cardiff South and Penarth has already mentioned. I start from the
position that the LGBT+ community has—and must have—the same
right to live a peaceful life as anyone else in this country, but
sadly that so often is not the case, as we see in the latest
statistics. I refer to some of the work that I and the hon.
Member for Wallasey (Dame ) have done in this space over
the past year or so as co-chairs of the all-party parliamentary
group on global LGBT+ rights.
As we have heard, the statistics, although depressing in
themselves, are actually only part of the picture, because there
is massive under-reporting. Last year, the police recorded 24,000
hate crimes in England and Wales linked to sexual orientation and
more than 4,700 cases linked to gender identity. Those figures
represent increases of 112% and 186% respectively over the past
five years.
As a London MP, it would be remiss of me not to mention Greater
London, the Casey report and, not least, some of the tragic
events that we have seen outside LGBT+ venues recently, including
Two Brewers in Clapham not that long ago. Over the past five
years in London alone—a city that we all assume is incredibly
tolerant—hate crime has increased by 65% against people who
identify as gay, lesbian or bisexual, and by 129% against those
who have a transgender identity.
That is not helped by a lack of trust in the police, which was
identified by the Casey report on the Metropolitan police. I
welcome the steps that the new Met commissioner is trying to take
to repair that, but trust in London’s police has fallen to an
all-time low of 64%. I would be grateful if the Minister outlined
what discussions the Home Office has had with the Metropolitan
police about the contents of the Casey report and how it intends
to keep track of the quality of the improvements that the
Metropolitan police must make to repair its relationship with the
LGBT+ community.
It has already been mentioned that the Home Office’s own blurb
accompanying the statistics mentioned the public and toxic debate
around trans rights that is happening in this place and across
much of the media and academia. As many people in the Chamber
have said, and as I have said before, we must find a way to lead
from the front and take the heat and toxicity out of these
discussions, because nobody wins from them. If any political
party or candidate thinks that going into the next election on a
platform of going after the LGBT+ community is smart—I am
speaking to all political parties here; we have to be honest that
all of us have had issues in our parties—they are mistaken. We
must all stand up to that in our own political parties and try to
stamp it out as much as possible. The LGBT+ community are not our
enemy, they are not a threat and they are not dangerous. We
cannot be surprised that trust in institutions such as the police
reduces when these things are not stamped out.
Like the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth, who spoke so
eloquently about this, I have not been without attacks in my own
constituency. Thankfully, I have never been physically assaulted,
but I have been on the receiving end of homophobic abuse just
going about my day-to-day work. Sadly, I am sure that other
colleagues will bring up examples of what they have experienced.
It is truly devastating, as the hon. Member for Livingston
() said. It knocks it out of
you and you wonder, “Why on earth am I putting myself in this
position?” You think, “Why should I put myself in harm’s way? I
don’t want to hold my partner’s hand in public. I don’t want to
show affection in public. I don’t want to be my authentic self in
public.” I am more worried about an attack than I am about being
my authentic self. That absolutely is not right in 21st-century
Britain.
The hon. Member is absolutely right: if we are cowed and go into
the darkness, the bigots win. In an interesting article, the
Bureau of Investigative Journalism reported that the US Christian
right, militant European Catholics, Russian Orthodox hardliners
and even sanctioned oligarchs are working concerted campaigns to
undermine reproductive and LGBTQ+ rights across the world. We
need to remember that when we talk to our own colleagues and
others who seek to divide liberal democracies across the
world.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for bringing that up, because
she is absolutely right. Indeed, we have seen that in the work we
have done in the APPG on global LGBT+ rights, particularly in
parts of east Africa—not least Uganda, where an
anti-homosexuality Bill was recently passed. There is massive
geopolitical influence, with efforts to push an anti-human rights
and anti-LGBT+ agenda as a way of exerting influence. We must be
able to track where the money is going. We know it comes from the
actors that she eloquently outlined, and we must call that out
and stamp it out as much as humanly possible.
I do not want to go on for much longer, but I have a few
questions for the Minister and I would be grateful if she would
cover them in her response. The Home Office’s hate crime action
plan for England and Wales has not been updated for years. Will
she commit to updating it? What discussions has the Home Office
had with the Metropolitan police and other police forces about
homophobia in their own forces and how they plan to rebuild trust
with the LGBT+ community? Will she offer an assurance that
despite some of the rhetoric we have heard, it is a priority for
the Home Office to get this right and to stamp that out? We were
a leader in global LGBT+ rights. We must be a leader again.
Several hon. Members rose—
(in the Chair)
Order. Before I call the next speaker, I ask colleagues to stick
to between two and half minutes and three minutes, tops.
4.59pm
(Plymouth, Sutton and
Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
It is a privilege to speak in the debate, and I congratulate my
hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth () on calling it. I am proud
to speak as Plymouth’s first-ever out Member of Parliament, which
gives me a special responsibility not only to share my personal
experience, but to speak up for communities who often feel
neglected and abused by those in this place.
We know that hate crime is on the rise. It is on the rise in
Plymouth; it is on the rise in all our communities. As
politicians, we can choose whether we calm things or fan the
flames of hate. That is a choice we can make. Despite progress
over many years, LGBT hate crime rose by 186% in the past five
years, according to Stonewall. How we tackle that hate crime
matters, and it requires leadership from the top.
Like many people, I have been attacked because of who I am. I am
proud to be a massive gay: it is part of who I am, it is part of
my identity and I celebrate it. My office has been vandalised
with homophobic graffiti; I have had homophobic threats and
messages left on my answer machine; and I have received an
enormous amount of abuse simply for tweeting a picture of me and
my boyfriend on Valentine’s day. That is an experience that
happens to far too many LGBT people throughout the country—being
authentically themselves makes them a target. We should be in no
doubt that we must call that out. That is why in the run-up to
the next general election, it is incumbent on us all, as the hon.
Member for Carshalton and Wallington () said, to call out hate
wherever it comes from—whatever dark recesses of the communities
we represent—but especially from those people who aspire to and
occupy the highest offices of our country.
We have had a Prime Minister who refused to apologise for calling
gay men “tank-topped bum boys”. We have a Home Secretary who has
accused LGBT asylum seekers of faking their sexuality. As an MP,
I have campaigned hard to stop the Home Office deporting gay
asylum seekers to countries where they would be killed because of
their sexuality. We have had senior Tory MPs saying that marriage
between men and women is
“the only possible basis for a safe and successful society.”
I believe in the family—I think the family unit is at the heart
of things—but I will not tell any single person what their family
should look like. That is what we should aspire to.
When we have a Prime Minister whipping up transphobia, that is
right out of the culture war playbook. That is why I want to ask
the Minister whether she has heard of the CAT strategy, which
will apparently form the basis of Government policy between now
and the general election. It will focus on climate, asylum
seekers and trans people. The culture war playbook is
deliberately designed to divide. Leadership matters. We need the
right leaders who build bridges and take the difficult step to
unite, not the easy step to divide.
Has the Minister heard of that strategy? What is she doing to
police other Ministers who make such divisive comments? Has she
called out the Home Secretary or the Prime Minister on their
recent divisive comments? If she has not, who does that within
Government? If we are to tackle hate crime, we need to tackle it
from the top, which means making sure that all the words we use,
all our behaviours and all the campaigns we run respect everyone
being able to be authentically true to themselves and being able
to do so safely in every part of our country.
5.02pm
(West Dorset) (Con)
It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Ms Cummins. I
thank the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth () and congratulate him on
securing this important debate. I will speak briefly from my own
experiences and perspectives as someone who, before my election
to this place, was physically assaulted for being who I am. It is
incredibly important that we tackle the root causes that motivate
and cause such behaviours against members of the LGBT community,
which is why I am so pleased to support the hon. Gentleman’s
debate.
As we tackle this hideous behaviour, though, it is also important
that we lead by example and hold our own community to account,
just as we would the wider public, because in the quest to reduce
instances of hate crime against the LGBT community, we also have
to look at our own behaviours within it. It is simply
unacceptable for those who may well have been impacted by hate
issues previously to provoke and manufacture homophobic hate
against staff or innocent supporters of an MP for political
purposes, especially when they are fuelled by alcohol. I am
afraid that this is a growing issue and one that I have
personally faced as recently as this week, in my home town of
Sherborne. I put on the record my thanks to Dorset police for
responding so promptly and for their help in calming an
extraordinarily aggressive situation.
At Manchester Pride last year, the current shadow Leader of the
House of Commons—the hon. Member for Manchester Central (), who is a Labour Member—turned
up with her supporters in T-shirts bearing the words “Never
kissed a Tory”. I am sorry to say so, but she should be ashamed
for doing that and for making some people—
(in the Chair)
Order. Has the Member given notice of that?
Yes, I have. As I was saying, I believe that the hon. Member for
Manchester Central should be ashamed for doing that, and for
making some people who do not share her political views
uncomfortable for joining a Pride event—an event at which we
should be united and not divided. I believe that it is as much
our duty to call out such instances of hypocrisy within the
community when we see them as it is to call out those outside the
community who serve hate against us. I will not be threatened nor
intimidated by that sort of nastiness. That kind of behaviour
does not just stem from drunken louts, but can start and be
fomented by supposedly upstanding members of the community.
When such comments originate from those who hold elected office,
I hope they are taken into account at election time. Where the
proprietors of local businesses spread that form of hate, I hope
their customers fully know the values of that business and
consider to whom they give their custom in future. Manufactured
hate against gay people by gay people for the purposes of
political difference is still hate. It has no place in our
society, nor in our community, and where it happens and has
happened, I shall shine an intense light on it—as I hope
everybody will.
5.06pm
Dame (Wallasey) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to be in this debate with you in the Chair, Ms
Cummins. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and
Penarth () for securing the debate on
hate crimes against LGBT+ people as part of National Hate Crime
Awareness Week.
I recognise that there is a rising trend of hate crime across the
board, as our society becomes more divided. Those politicians who
seek to peddle the politics of blame and division have a great
deal of responsibility on their hands. We have seen a rise in
that kind of politics across the globe, and sadly in some areas
of our country. Today at Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime
Minister said that
“the words we say here have an impact beyond this House.”
We have seen that sometimes global issues have an effect on
levels of hate crime for other reasons, and we are conscious of
that today.
We are also conscious of some others. Problematising members of
the community, particularly trans members of the LGBT community,
othering them, and perpetrating discourse that casts them as a
threat and a danger to children—the usual tropes that many who
are old enough and have been involved in politics as long as I
have remember from the 1980s—can end only with one effect. It is
the effect that my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and
Penarth outlined effectively in his speech, and that we have
heard about in other contributions: a massive increase in hate
crime on the basis of sexual orientation in the past five years,
up 112%. Hate crime against trans people is up 186%. In
Merseyside, where my constituency of Wallasey is, hate crime
based on sexual orientation is up 162%, and against trans people
it is up 1,033%.
I ask the Minister what the Government are planning to do, given
that six Cabinet Ministers took to the podium to rail against the
trans community and so-called gender ideology and wokeism at the
recent Conservative party conference? The Home Secretary’s speech
was
“a signal to people who don’t like people who are LGBT+
people.”
Those are not my words; they are the words of the Conservative
chair of the London Assembly as he was being thrown out of that
conference. Let us get a grip. Let us remember that real people
are involved. When hate crimes rise it ruins lives. Let us do
something about it and let us unite to do so.
Several hon. Members rose—
(in the Chair)
Order. I have to impose a time limit of two minutes.
5.09pm
(Darlington) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Cummins. I
congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth
() on securing this debate,
and I am pleased to see the Minister present.
Many Members here today, in the most LGBT-represented Parliament
in the world, are openly gay. We often reflect on how far we have
come: same-sex marriage, equalised age of consent, the ban in the
armed forces lifted, and the welcome recent apology by the Prime
Minister for our LGBT veterans. However, the very fact that we
are having this debate and the shocking statistics underlying it
mean that there is no room for complacency.
Just over a week ago, I returned from a visit to Ghana as part of
Parliament’s delegation to the Commonwealth Parliamentary
Conference. There were other reasons for Members, including my
right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and
Tweeddale () and the hon. Member for
Livingston (), to visit: we wanted to
understand the situation with that country’s horrific proposed
anti-LGBT legislation, which actively reduces human rights and
criminalises people for simply who they are and whom they love,
and we wanted to share our story about our nation’s progress.
Against the backdrop of a changing picture in parts of Europe,
Africa and America, and a challenging dialogue in this country,
we must be mindful of changes in the law and keep acting to
protect human rights. I repeat my call for an inclusive ban on
conversion therapy. The fact that we have people being abused,
assaulted and, in the most extreme examples, stabbed and murdered
in our country for just being who they are and loving whom they
love is shocking and deeply saddening. Hate and abuse targeted
towards anyone because of their sexuality or gender must never be
acceptable in our community. This debate gives us an important
opportunity to press the Minister to do more, and be seen to do
more, to drive down the shocking statistics.
5.11pm
(Salford and Eccles)
(Lab)
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth
() for securing this
important debate and for his passionate speech, which I associate
myself with very much.
The statistics that my hon. Friend set out were absolutely
shocking, but they are only the reported crimes. As we know, only
one in 10 LGBTQ+ people report hate crimes or incidents. It is
even more worrying and upsetting that over recent months we have
seen Government spokespeople specifically using trans people—who
already struggle against prejudice day in, day out—as a political
football, for no reason other than stoking a culture war.
The Government’s words matter. I met a group of parents of trans
young people in Salford on Sunday. The Government’s words
mattered to them, and they mattered to the young people. I heard
stories about how horrified those young people were when the
Prime Minister made certain statements during his conference
speech, and how in some cases those young people felt they had no
place in the world. Some had even considered suicide. The
Government must understand that their words have an impact, not
just on increases in hate crime but on the mental health of the
people they affect.
We have a moral duty in this place to speak up for those we feel
are disenfranchised, and we have a moral duty to choose our words
carefully. I am proud that Britain is a tolerant, respectful and
inclusive country but, as the charity Stonewall states,
“a lack of positive action and threats to existing rights are
taking the UK off course.”
We cannot allow that to happen. I urge the Minister to really
take action today and listen to the words of my colleagues.
5.13pm
(Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Cummins. I
thank my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth
() for securing this
important debate and for the words he put so well.
In just over a month, on 20 November, we will mark Transgender
Day of Remembrance. It is a moment for communities around the
world to honour the memory of transgender people whose lives have
been lost in acts of anti-transgender violence. In 2021, that was
375 people. We are facing a crisis. As we have heard today,
LGBTQ+ hate crime is rising at a terrifying rate. The figures are
startling, but what is worse is that they do not even represent
the full picture. In the Government’s national LGBT survey, more
than 91% of respondents said that the most serious incidents they
had experienced in the preceding 12 months had not been reported.
Those incidents included sexual assault and physical violence.
That evidence is supported by Galop, which has said so much in
the last year. It has seen a 65% increase in LGBT victims coming
forward for its support.
As mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and
Penarth, we have slipped down the charts in terms of being LGBTQ+
friendly, and that should shame us all. Instead of taking steps
to address the crisis, reduce hate and ensure that those who
experience it can access all the support they need, our politics
is focused on fuelling it:
“Transgender issues have been heavily discussed by politicians,
the media and on social media over the last year, which may have
led to an increase in these offences”.
Those are not my words, but the words of the Home Office. Filling
the public domain with toxic language that dehumanises LGBTQ
people has real, life-threatening consequences, and it is telling
that those in this place who often spread hate are not here to
listen to those consequences. When the Prime Minister suggests to
his Conservative conference that transgender identities are not
valid, his words do not go into a void: they have
repercussions.
What must we do? We must get the hate crime action plan back and
ensure that we bring in a total ban on conversion therapy. It is
incredibly important that this issue is taken as seriously as it
can be. We should stamp out hate as much as we can.
5.15pm
(Leeds North West)
(Lab/Co-op)
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth
() for an immeasurably
heartfelt speech. He is so passionate about this issue, which we
have discussed many times.
Hate crimes motivated by sexual orientation are up by 112%
compared with this time five years ago. For trans people, that
figure rises to 186%. Figures for West Yorkshire released in June
2022 showed a 39.9% rise in transphobic incidents in that year.
Christina, a trans woman who supports victims through the charity
TransLeeds, said that she was not surprised by the figure:
“I feel that is significantly low compared to what the real
numbers would be because a lot of people don’t report. We still
get a lot of mis-gendering, a lot of dead-naming. It doesn’t make
someone feel safe when they are trying to report something that
has happened to them.”
Last month, we heard our Home Secretary stand on the global stage
and tell the world that being gay is not reason enough to seek
asylum. There are still 11 countries where being gay carries the
death penalty. Is the Home Office suggesting that we send gay
people back to countries where they could be killed by their own
Governments? Two weeks ago, the Tory party conference hinged on
humiliating and scapegoating vulnerable people, with an obsessive
focus on trans and gender non-conforming people. The
Conservatives seem obsessed with trans and non-binary people.
They tell us that our children are at risk simply because of the
existence of LGBTQ+ people.
The moment we are in is a dark one. We live in a country that is
unsafe for queer people, and have a ruling party that is fuelling
transphobia and subsequent hate crime. Trans people and
non-binary people have always existed. They will exist in spite
of the vitriol, scapegoating and legislation. To any trans person
listening, I want to address you directly. I see you, I stand
with you and I respect you. I hope that in the face of this
hardship, we can support you, and that we do much better for you
in law.
5.17pm
(East Renfrewshire)
(SNP)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Cummins. I am
grateful to be able to speak in the debate secured by the hon.
Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (), which is particularly
important in Hate Crime Awareness Week. His contribution was
eloquent and moving, and some of the things he said should
horrify us. We should be shocked to the core by the things that
he shared, and we should all have pause for thought. The hon.
Member for West Dorset () also should have made us all
think very deeply about the situation that our society faces.
The statistics shared by the right hon. Member for Dwyfor
Meirionnydd () tell us about the
huge increase in hate crime. She spoke about the increase in hate
crime in relation to the transgender community, and we have heard
clearly from a number of Members about how significant and
troubling that is.
The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington () correctly made a point
about how frightening the increase in hate crime is. That is all
very well but, as he said, it is not the full story, because we
know that that crime is under-represented. We also know that it
is significantly on the increase, not just here but around the
world. That is a particular challenge when we think of the
policies of the UK Government, who are not at all minded to
consider that fact when they move people around the globe without
thinking about the consequences.
It is a time of polarisation of views and positions, as is clear
from the online space, if Members ever brave it. Social media
companies as well as Governments have a responsibility to deal
with the shocking and disgraceful commentary on social media.
Fundamentally, no one’s identity should be up for debate. No
point of view can possibly excuse hate crime. As politicians, we
need to take some responsibility here. Are we always measured and
considered? I would say no, not all of us are always measured and
considered. We have heard very clearly about some of the
commentary coming from the Conservative conference, for instance.
I think that was a point well made. Culture wars should never be
a political strategy. We should all call it out and be confident
in doing so. We need to get a grip on the hostile language that
the hon. Member for Wallasey (Dame ) spoke about, because we know
very well that it does embolden people to commit hate crimes
against the LGBT community, who are just trying to live their
lives, after all.
It is timely for us to point out how utterly unacceptable and
troubling it is that we also see an uptick in other kinds of hate
crime. Antisemitic and Islamophobic hate crimes are increasing at
the moment. Whatever angle we look at this from, it is
devastating to the LGBT community. It is damaging and erosive to
all our communities. Everyone suffers when we accept this
shocking attack on people’s identities. It is an unfortunate
instinct of the UK Government to try to move along and pretend
that this is not happening.
I wonder whether the Minister is able to answer the written
question I submitted, which remains unanswered, about the draft
Bill on banning conversion therapy. It is overdue, and I wonder
if it is overdue because the Government do not want to answer it
as they have no intention of following through on their previous
commitments. That matters because that in itself has implications
for hate crime and the way that people will be treated. As a
useful political wedge for those who wish to seek division it
might work, but we need to hear commitments here from the UK
Government and the Minister that proper action will be taken to
deliver a proper ban on conversion therapy, and that there is a
commitment to recognising and understanding the impact on LGBT
communities of hate crime.
I will conclude by thanking the hon. Member for Carshalton and
Wallington for saying very eloquently that the LGBT community are
not our enemy; they are not a threat. I think that is a sensible
point to conclude on, because he is right. It is time for us all
here to say, “Enough,” and call it out.
5.22pm
(Nottingham North)
(Lab/Co-op)
It is a pleasure to see you in the chair, Mrs Cummins. I would
like to start by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff
South and Penarth () for securing this debate,
which has been so well attended. When I was shadow Public Health
Minister, I had the chance to collaborate with him on his vital
work to end the transmission of HIV. His efforts there have been
remarkable, and he has set the tone and brought the same kind of
spirit to today’s debate. He talked about the stark and horrific
reality of hate crime, which should act as a call to action. He
made crucial points about reference, which were echoed by my hon.
Friends the Members for Wallasey (Dame ), for Plymouth, Sutton and
Devonport () and for Sheffield, Hallam
(). We as leaders have a real
responsibility in this space.
The debate has been important. I am particularly grateful to
colleagues who were able to talk about their personal
experiences. People assume that as parliamentarians we are
confident in always sharing what can be very deep parts of our
personality, but it really has enriched the debate, and I am
exceptionally grateful for that. My hon. Friends the Members for
Salford and Eccles () and for Leeds North
West () and the hon. Member for
Carshalton and Wallington () made really important
points about under-reporting. Our efforts today and the
leadership we show from this place—we must hear that from the
Minister, and I will have some ideas myself—are the way to drive
up reporting and build confidence. We know for too many people
that confidence is not there at the moment.
I want to cover the point from the hon. Member for West Dorset
(). First, to be very clear, my
hon. Friend the Member for Manchester Central () has a very diverse
constituency in Manchester and represents all her constituents,
no matter their background—political or otherwise. That T-shirt
is not an act of hate. Similarly, we would not interpret condoms
at Tory party conferences that say, “Labour isn’t working, but
this condom will (*99% of the time)”, as such. We take it in the
spirit in which it was meant. I would be saddened if it was not
taken in the spirit in which it was meant. I want to put that on
the record.
In recent years we have seen incidents of hate crime rise
significantly. Hate crimes motivated by sexual orientation have
risen by almost 500% over the last decade. Crimes targeting
transgender identity are up by 1,000%. We would expect to see
some increase as we have, as a whole society, pushed to improve
reporting, but even from isolating the data to the recent past
four years—2018 to 2022—hate crime on the basis of sexual
orientation is up by 41% and on the basis of gender identity by
56%. There is a problem here, and reporting alone cannot explain
it. As my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and
Devonport said, there are changes in all our communities.
LGBT+ people must be treated fairly, with dignity and with
respect. As leaders in this place, our commitment is to treat
these issues with sensitivity, rather than to stoke division and
pit people against each other. We should be proud of our record
as a tolerant country. We should be proud of our progress on
equality. As the hon. Member for Darlington () said, we should be overjoyed
that we have the most out LGBT+ Members of Parliament of any
legislative body in the world. But that progress is not
inevitable. We need to hear the Government’s plan to reverse this
trend in hate crime and to reverse how LGBT+ people feel
today.
Where the Government will not step forward, we stand ready. We
are proud that the previous Labour Government did more to advance
LGBT+ equality than any in history and, if given the chance, the
next will break new ground in this space, too. We would introduce
a full and immediate trans-inclusive ban on conversion therapy,
protecting legitimate talking therapies but closing any consent
loopholes that are put in the statute book in the meantime.
We will also strengthen and equalise the law so that anti-LGBT+
and disability hate crimes are treated as aggravated offences. In
doing so, we would accept the Law Commission’s recommendations
that the aggravated offences regime be extended across five
protected characteristics: race, religion, sexual identity,
transgender identity and disability. That will ensure that anyone
who falls victim to hate crime is treated equally under the law
and that the perpetrators of anti-LGBT+ and disability hate can
no longer dodge longer sentences. Those commitments sit alongside
our broader, crucial pledges to put 13,000 neighbourhood police
officers and police community support officers back on our
streets and embedded in our communities, so that they can build
local relationships to combat hate crime and deter it through
their visible presence.
My hon. Friend will be aware of the horrific attack at the Two
Brewers in my constituency of Vauxhall on Sunday 13 August. I
commend the organisation for working with the police: the
perpetrator was caught a month later and he is still on remand.
Does my hon. Friend agree that we need more police officers
across all our communities to ensure that anyone committing these
heinous attacks will feel the full weight of the law?
Absolutely. We want to send a very strong signal that, under a
future Labour Government, there would be 13,000 extra staff,
compared with the 10,000 fewer we have at the moment, to take
back our streets so that those who think they can break the law
with impunity find out that they no longer can.
There is a significant point about charging. Our charging
commission, chaired by former Victims’ Commissioner Dame , will be providing
recommendations on raising the scandalously low charge rates that
are so damaging to our justice system and are letting criminals
off the hook. This is a plan to reverse a legacy of decline. We
are determined to turn this situation around, and to make our
streets safe with a police and justice system that is fit for the
future and that the LGBT+ community can trust to combat hate
crime and bring the perpetrators of it to justice.
5.28pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home
Department ( )
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Cummins. I
am grateful to the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth
() for securing this debate.
It was abundantly clear throughout his remarks that this subject
is of significance to him. He relayed his thoughts and personal
experiences and, like those of other Members who have contributed
to the debate, they were thought-provoking and I thank him for
them.
Although the debate is specifically about hate crimes that target
the LGBT community, I want to echo the remarks that the Prime
Minister made on Monday. He mentioned that hate crime takes
various forms and that we must look at the antisemitism of the
past few days. We must stand not only with our Jewish community,
but with our British Muslim community, too. We stand with both
communities. I echo those remarks very firmly because they are
important, and I want to lower the temperature of the debate.
These matters are felt strongly not only by Members present, but
by those in our communities. It does not help when intemperate
language is used.
The Government are clear that there is no place for hate in our
society. It does not reflect who we are: modern Britain. We are
beyond that, but we still have room for improvement. Given the
personal nature of these abhorrent crimes, I know how distressing
they can be. I have heard some of the experiences of Members from
across the House and the political divide. They are really
thought-provoking. These things we are joined together on. I know
how distressing these crimes are, as has been mentioned, for
victims, their families, friends and the wider community. I
therefore want to make it clear that any form of hate crime is
unacceptable. The Government firmly believe that everyone should
be able to lead their life free from discrimination, prejudice
and hate. That is precisely why we are tackling all forms of hate
crime, not lifting one or two above the other. They are all
important to me.
One thing I was impressed with when I came into the House was
just how these issues can be debated and how my own party has
come so far in proposing marriage that had previously been
unacceptable and representing the community. We are still
world-leading; I think it is at our peril that we say we are not.
There is always more to do, but we must not be too hysterical in
language. That provides difficulties. My hon. Friend the Member
for West Dorset () pointed that out: it can be
misused, and it should not be. We should be together on that.
Several hon. Members rose—
Miss Dines
I will carry on a little and then give way. A lot of specific
questions were raised, and I want to answer them. I will then
give way.
The UK has a proud history of protecting and promoting LGBT
rights and the Government are committed to preserving that
record. We are clear that victims of hate crime should be
supported and the cowards who commit those hateful attacks should
be brought to justice. I want to mention that I was delighted to
see the Minister for Equalities, my right hon. Friend the Member
for Pudsey (), here. That shows the
important work that he has been doing and I know through
cross-departmental ministerial meetings that he is working
incredibly hard on this. I too have spoken to the Metropolitan
Police Commissioner and the deputy commissioner on these issues
as safeguarding Minister. They are taken very seriously.
Whatever some Opposition Members may say, I ask them to consider
that we still have one of the world’s most comprehensive and
robust legislative frameworks for hate crime. Indeed, in 2018 the
Government asked the Law Commission to conduct a review of the
coverage and approach of hate crime legislation in England and
Wales. The Law Commission provided a very long, detailed and
considered report. We are grateful for those detailed
considerations and for the work put into that. We have responded
to and accepted one of the recommendations in that report and
will respond to the remaining recommendations shortly.
On online offending, it is evident that in modern life
intemperate and illegal remarks can be whipped up online. We
continue to work to ensure that people are protected against
criminal activity, including threatening behaviour both on and
offline. In my work with the National Crime Agency and various
police forces, I have found a high level of commitment to
improving this arena. There are people doing some very good work,
and we must not forget that.
We have robust legislation in place to deal with threatening and
abusive behaviour or behaviour that is intended to or is likely
to stir up hatred. That applies whether it takes place here, in
the wider world, or online. Further to that, we are making hate
crime a priority offence in the Online Safety Bill, which, as
hon. Members will be aware, has recently completed its passage
through Parliament and is awaiting Royal Assent. There are legal
duties of care under which technology companies will need to
prevent, identify and remove illegal content and activity online.
That means that less illegal content, including content that
incites hate on the grounds of race, religion or sexual
orientation, will appear online and that when it does it will be
removed quickly.
The Government have also worked closely to fund True Vision,
which is just part of our commitment in this area, for online
hate crime reporting. The portal is designed so that victims of
all sorts of hate crime do not have to visit a police station to
report. We also continue to fund the national online hate crime
hub, which is a central capability designed to support individual
local police forces in dealing with online hate crime. The hub
provides expert advice to police forces to support them in
investigating these despicable offences.
There is much other work being done by the Government to broaden
education, such as providing more than £3 million in funding
between August 2021 and March 2024 to five anti-bullying
organisations. There is much work being done, too, in schools to
tackle this sort of hate crime. Also, the curriculum in schools
is drafted in a way that will promote greater understanding in
the field. It would not be fair to characterise the Government as
somehow not being engaged and working in this field.
Will the Minister give way?
Miss Dines
I want to go on to the issue of conversion practices, if I may; I
am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s patience. The Government
have made it clear that conversion practices are abhorrent and
have no place in our society. We are grateful to those who have
responded to our consultation, which was very wide and well
thought-out, and my ministerial colleagues will set out further
details on that in due course. I cannot give a timeframe.
We have been promised “very soon” since January this year. Does
the Minister have an update on specific dates?
Miss Dines
As a junior Minister, I have learned that “very soon” is quite an
interesting phrase. All I can say is that hopefully we will have
some news very soon.
Will the Minister give way?
Miss Dines
I will address one or two of the points made by the hon. Member
for Cardiff South and Penarth. He asked whether the Government
will end the disparity between the different forms of hate crime,
and I know he feels strongly about this issue. It is something
that the Law Commission has considered in its recent report. We
are considering that further and, again, will have more details
shortly.
The Government’s has a proud record on LGBT rights. We have one
of the most comprehensive and robust legislative frameworks, but
the work on the HIV action plan—
Several hon. Members rose—
(in the Chair)
Order. It is up to the Minister whether to give way.
Miss Dines
I want to mention and praise the work of the hon. Member for
Cardiff South and Penarth on the HIV action plan. We have
announced an ambitious target to end new HIV cases by 2030, which
represents a lot of work done by the defence community and the UK
armed forces. A lot of work has been done there. I have mentioned
the ban on conversion therapy, to which we are committed and
which was raised by Members in the debate.
The rise in hate crime statistics has been mentioned. At first
glance, it is very alarming. The good news is that, generally,
hate crimes are on a downward trajectory. However, specific hate
crimes, such as those targeted at LGBT people, are on the rise.
There has been a characterisation of the figures as given, so I
will go through the actual statistics. As hon. Members have said,
transgender identity hate crimes have risen by 11%—from 4,262 to
4,732. That is the highest number since the statistics began in
the year ending in March 2012, so it is of concern. However, it
would be wrong to say that that has been prompted by any
particular politician. The report says:
“Transgender issues have been heavily discussed by politicians,
the media and on social media over the last year, which may have
led to an increase in these offences, or more awareness in the
police in the identification and recording of these crimes.”
When we look at statistics, we need to look at the independent
assessor, who did not say that, in isolation, the rise in such
hate crimes is because politicians are talking about it. It is
because this issue is discussed online and in the media. More
importantly—I have witnessed this myself—police officers are now
more likely to understand it and be able to report it than they
were two, three, four or five years ago. Although it is alarming
that hate crime in this field has risen by 11%, in some ways we
must look for the positive, which is that more people are coming
forward.
Will the Minister give way?
Miss Dines
I just want to make this point: more people are coming forward,
which is good news that I welcome. More people are reporting this
sort of crime. [Interruption.]
(in the Chair)
Order. The Minister is out of time.
Miss Dines
I will make a concluding point. My hon. Friend the Member for
Carshalton and Wallington () made some very important
points, and I can speak to him afterwards—
(in the Chair)
Order. I call to sum up.
5.38pm
Thank you, Mrs Cummins. I thank all right hon. and hon. Members
present today. I particularly thank Opposition Members, but I
also want to thank Conservative colleagues for having the courage
to speak up on these issues publicly and within their own
party.
I am sorry to say that the Minister has shown how completely out
of touch she and the Government are with the lived experience of
LGBT+ people. To use words such as “hysterical” when we are
talking about such serious issues is deeply disappointing. The
evidence is there and is very clear. It is unequivocal: hate
crime is up, people’s experiences are horrific and we have
slipped down the rankings. The question is: when will she and the
Government do something about this, rather than just talking and
offering warm words?
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the matter of hate crime against
the LGBT+ community.
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