Asked by
To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have for the
United Kingdom to join Horizon Europe.
(Lab)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on
the Order Paper, and I hope that the House will understand how
pleased I am that I will not have to ask it again.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Science, Innovation and Technology () (Con)
My Lords, on 7 September, the Prime Minister announced that the
UK would associate to Horizon Europe. The Government have
negotiated a bespoke deal in the UK’s national interest, and UK
researchers and businesses can participate confidently in the
world’s largest programme of research co-operation, worth more
than £80 billion. UK applicants are eligible to apply to Horizon
Europe calls, now and in the future, and the Government strongly
encourage them to do so.
(Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer and I welcome the
decision. However, I hope the House will understand that great
damage has been caused by the delay, and that this is not an
automatic thing that you can restart, like pressing on a light
switch. One of the things we must turn our attention to now to
make Horizon Europe work properly is the visa system. The global
talent visa system for STEM subjects needs reform. If we are to
encourage the best and the brightest to come and do their
research in Britain, would the Minister agree that tackling the
visa system is an important priority for the Government now?
Would he also agree that, if we are to be a science superpower,
we really must tackle the visa problem and fix it to make it more
easily possible for these researchers to come and do their work
in Britain to the benefit of the UK?
(Con)
I thank the noble Viscount for his question and pay tribute to
his ongoing championship of our reassociation to the programme. I
certainly agree on the importance of bringing in overseas talent
via the visa system for this. We have roughly 1 million people
today in this country working in R&D roles. We feel that, by
2027, due to retirement and bringing new researchers in, that
number will have to increase by around 380,000, and overseas
talent will be a very big piece of that. I am pleased to say that
our very welcoming points-based visa immigration system is seeing
quite strong increases in numbers. The skills-based visa system
has seen increases of roughly 50% when compared to years before
the pandemic.
(CB)
My Lords, I am pleased that we now have a settlement with Horizon
Europe, and all the science institutions are very pleased with
this news. It will allow us now to form collaborations with
scientists in Europe and other parts of the world, which is an
important part of research. We will also now be part of
Copernicus, which drives research into space and satellite
programmes, and that is also good news. The downside is that we
will not be part of Euratom, because that is what the Government
have decided. That is for nuclear research, which means that we
will not be joining any nuclear research in Europe, where they
are establishing the first trial fusion reactor in France. I hope
that the new money that the Government will put forward instead
of Euratom will be for nuclear research and will not be used for
things such as manufacturing radioisotopes, which we have been
short of since we came out of Europe—and we do need more of them.
Can the Minister confirm when the Government will publish the
forward plans for a replacement of Euratom and that the money
will be for research?
(Con)
I thank the noble Lord for his remarks overall concerning the
Horizon programme. The reason the Government chose not to join
Euratom and did not include it in our overall deal here was that
the fusion nuclear sector very strongly advised us not to do so.
That frees up approximately £650 million, which will be
distributed in ways to be announced. I am afraid I do not have a
date for that—these events have been very recent—but it will be
announced as soon as practicably possible.
(Con)
My Lords, let me first draw attention to my entry in the register
of interests and congratulate the Government on a very effective
way of putting ourselves back in play here. I also congratulate
the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, on his tenacity. How does
this fit with the AUKUS initiative on innovation and
technology?
(Con)
I thank my noble friend for his comments but his specific
question with respect to AUKUS has rather stumped me, so I will
have to write to him.
(LD)
My Lords, the figures on those attracted by the global talent
visa and others came before the latest announcement about the
increases in visa charges and health charges. I emphasise that
these are upfront charges, so if you are coming here for five
years, you are paying £20,000 to £25,000 before you have
started—unless your university repays it, in which case the
university has extra costs. Those charges were imposed to support
a public sector pay increase, thus contradicting the aim to be a
science superpower. Can the Government please get their act
together? We know that we need a large number of foreign
researchers, and we want to make Britain a welcoming place for
foreign researchers. This is doing the opposite. Will the
Government not reverse the recent increase?
(Con)
The Home Office recently announced increases to both the visa
fees and the health surcharge fees, with the purpose of ensuring
that the costs of our borders and migration system are borne by
those who benefit most from that system. The timing of the
increase of the costs has yet to be announced, although the
announcement itself was made, and we will of course be keeping a
close eye on its overall effects.
(Lab)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Stansgate for his
persistence on this. I was grateful for the Minister’s
contributions in the Chamber last week on the subject of
reinstating the Horizon programme—a very welcome announcement.
Given his commitment to try to find out how much the substitute
Pioneer programme had cost, including staff costs, what steps has
he put in place to identify those costs and when does he expect
to be able to share the information with the House?
(Con)
I said at the time that I would ask for those costs to be
analysed, and that is in train. When that will be shared, I do
not know, but I invite the noble Baroness to consider that the
costs of non-association to Horizon for us were those of
uncertainty. How much greater would that uncertainty, and
therefore the cost, have been had we not had a plan B in the form
of Pioneer? Proceeding without Pioneer would have been reckless
in the extreme. Whatever costs were incurred—and I will, as I
promised, do my best to find out what they were—pale in
comparison with what the costs of not doing it would have
been.
(Con)
My Lords, we have the finest universities in the world. What are
the Government’s plans for Erasmus?
(Con)
At this time, the Government are not re-associating with Erasmus,
instead relying on their innovative Turing programme.
(CB)
My Lords, as someone who has previously benefited from research
support from Horizon, I join others in warmly welcoming this.
Does the Minister agree that Horizon has been extremely important
not only in strengthening research capability between the UK and
continental Europe, and between the East and West, but between
the north and south—Europe and the global South—which is hugely
important strategically in areas such as health security,
biosecurity, pandemic preparedness and climate change?
(Con)
I am very happy to agree. The work done collectively across all
programmes in the last Horizon cut across 163 countries and
created 237,000 collaborative links—although quite what that
means I am not sure. To me, it paints a picture of a global,
highly collaborative, shared investigative approach to probing
the great scientific problems of our time.
(Lab)
My Lords, there is clearly overwhelming relief from the academic
community that we have at last rejoined, although I echo my noble
friend’s point that there is a lot of ground to make up and a lot
of good will and partnerships to be rebuilt. I will ask some
practical questions of the Minister. What happens to researchers
who have already been funded through the guarantee? Can they be
transferred back into Horizon? What will happen to the underspend
created by UKRI’s guarantee? Will it be reinvested in UK R&D
before association takes place?
(Con)
I thank the noble Baroness for the question. Any open calls now
are for programme 24 or are outstanding for programme 23. Those
calls will be dedicated to each programme. Those for programme
23—there are not very many left—are covered by the Horizon
guarantee scheme or programme 24, in which we now participate.
All of the underspend will go to our commitment to spend £20
billion a year on R&D by 2024-25, and exactly how we take
full advantage of that will be the subject of future
announcements.
