Service Personnel: Retirement Age and Conditions for Service
Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD) 1. What recent assessment
he has made of the adequacy of the retirement (a) age and (b)
conditions for service personnel. (906293) The Minister for Defence
People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison) The
thoughts and prayers of the whole House will be with the Secretary
of State and his family during sitting shiva. It is right that we
record here...Request free trial
Service Personnel: Retirement Age and Conditions for Service
(Edinburgh West) (LD)
1. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of the
retirement (a) age and (b) conditions for service personnel.
(906293)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
The thoughts and prayers of the whole House will be with the
Secretary of State and his family during sitting shiva.
It is right that we record here today the anniversary of 9/11, a
terrible act that changed our world. Let me also say that the UK
is standing with the Kingdom of Morocco; we are engaged on the
ground already and stand by to help in any way that we can.
Defence recognises the need to evolve so that we continue to
attract and retain the very best. To that end, the MOD
commissioned the Haythornthwaite review into armed forces
incentivisation, which was published in June. I will respond
formally on behalf of the Department in the coming months, but it
is supportive of the recommendations. On retirement ages, I have
committed to work with officials and the single services to
review rigid cut-offs and to consider establishing an assessment
framework to be used on a case-by-case basis.
May I associate myself with the earlier remarks of the Minister,
whom I thank for his answer? As he is aware, I have already taken
an interest and written in about this issue. I have a constituent
who came to me recently having spent a good number of years in
the armed forces. He is very proud of what he has given to keep
our country safe but is concerned that the armed forces,
particularly the Army, are losing institutional memory. He feels
that the cut-off age of 55 for reservists is too young, certainly
for more administrative roles. Will the MOD take that into
account in the review and consider allowing reservists to stay
longer in those roles?
Dr Murrison
I am really happy to declare my interest at this point, as I am
in my 63rd year and I remain a reservist. I am sympathetic to the
points that the hon. Lady makes and we will certainly factor them
into our review.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
(Wentworth and Dearne)
(Lab)
We know that the Defence Secretary is with his close family
today, and we in the Opposition extend our deepest
condolences.
I also offer the Secretary of State our warmest congratulations.
Over the years and in different roles, I have shadowed him and he
has shadowed me, and we both know that the first duty of any
Government is to keep our country safe. I will always look to
work with him on that basis in his new job.
On personnel, levels of satisfaction with service life have
plunged a third over the past 13 years. What is the plan to lift
those record low levels of military morale?
Dr Murrison
The right hon. Gentleman paints an overly gloomy picture of life
in the armed forces for most people. It is a rewarding career and
they take with them the skills that they need into civilian life
and prosper. However, we are aware of our need to compete in the
workplace in the years ahead and, to that end, we have
commissioned Rick Haythornthwaite’s review, which we broadly
agree with and will respond to very soon.
Mr Speaker
I welcome the SNP spokesperson to his place.
(West
Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Let me also associate SNP Members with the
words of the Minister for the Secretary of State at this sad
time. We also think of Morocco and all those New Yorkers who are
remembering today.
We know that the cost of living crisis is affecting us all
equally. The Minister has said some fine words today, but we know
that for his party, there is often an inverse relationship
between rhetoric and action with regard to our personnel. Will
the Minister tell the House and members of the armed forces what
his Government will do to remedy the shameful reality of armed
forces personnel being given the lowest pay rise among public
servants—a paltry 5%?
Dr Murrison
I think the hon. Gentleman may be in error: the lowest paid
members of our armed forces were awarded 9.7% by the Armed Forces
Pay Review Body, a recommendation that we accepted in full.
Seniors got 5.8% and those of two-star rank and above got 5.5%.
That will give the best pay award to the least well paid in our
armed forces.
I disagree on the numbers. Let us talk about the rhetoric from
the right hon. Gentleman—unless his Government are willing to
deal with pay and housing conditions for the armed forces
properly. As the armed forces personnel leave the forces for
better-paid jobs, could it not be time to consider the reason
that the police were able to secure an almost 50% higher pay rise
than our other uniformed public servants? Was it because they
have a statutory body to represent them in dealing with the
Government, and why do his Government not support that
action?
Dr Murrison
The hon. Gentleman has ignored what I have been saying. He also
did not make reference to the freezing of charges for
accommodation and food, wraparound childcare and a whole raft of
measures that we have introduced to help with the cost of living
crisis.
RAF Quick Reaction Alert Stations
(Witney) (Con)
2. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the
RAF quick reaction alert stations. (906294)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
Royal Air Force pilots and ground crew are poised on quick
reaction alert 24 hours a day, seven days a week, all year round,
ready to scramble within minutes. My hon. Friend would point out
quickly that it would be remiss of me to say that that is solely
the endeavour of fast jet pilots. Equally poised are those in his
constituency who crew the tankers that must also deploy rapidly
to support. QRA has been launched on five occasions in 2023 with
every incident resolved successfully.
I thank the Minister for his kind words about my constituents. He
will no doubt have read the report from the Select Committee on
Defence, “Aviation Procurement: Winging it?”, which warns of an
unacceptable gap in combat air mass. With the retirement of the
Hercules placing even more demands on the air mobility force, and
the Voyagers—to which he rightly pays tribute—being asked to do
more and more each month, what confidence does he have that, if
required to do so, those forces have enough men, women and
machines to defend the UK in a peer conflict?
I have complete confidence that quick reaction alert will be
resourced. The highest priority of the air force is to defend the
homeland. I also have complete confidence that the combat air
force, as currently structured, is capable of performing a very
wide range of duties around the world. I pay tribute to the work
of the Air and Space Commander and his team, who, through work on
agile deployment, are finding that we can deploy Typhoon and F-35
ever more quickly to ever more austere operating environments.
That drives the productivity of the force even further.
(Angus) (SNP)
There is, of course, no question over the quality of combat
aircrews, but there is a big question mark over the quantity of
aircraft that they can fly. I want to challenge the Minister on
the confidence he has just articulated, because there are serious
concerns that our combat aircrew are engaged almost universally
in transit and air policing, and have very little aircraft
availability to practise proper combat air. What is his
assessment of that concern?
We take very seriously the work that the Defence Committee does;
we enjoy reading the Committee’s reports and, as I hope members
of the Committee and of the House recognise, often take the
findings into policy. I do push back gently, however, because in
addition to the incredible work of QRA and the support the Royal
Air Force has given to NATO missions over the last 18 months,
since the start of the war in Ukraine, they have also been able
to support carrier strike deployments, deployment on Exercise Red
Flag, and indeed the deployment of a below squadron in strength,
all the way across to Australia. That gets to exactly what I told
my hon. Friend the Member for Witney (): that this ability to
deploy air force with greater agility, further from home, in more
austere settings, is a step change for the Royal Air Force,
allowing it to operate from more austere environments rather than
solely from its home bases.
Defence Sector: UK-based Jobs
(Ealing, Southall)
(Lab)
4. What steps he is taking to help increase the number of
UK-based jobs in the defence sector. (906296)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
The latest estimates suggest that Ministry of Defence investment
supports over 200,000 jobs in industries across the UK. I believe
that the best way to keep growing jobs in defence is to back the
British defence industry. That is why I am delighted to confirm
that, this week in London, we are hosting the biggest ever
DSEI—Defence and Security Equipment International—showcasing the
very best of the British defence industry, with companies large
and small. We should remember that they provide not only
prosperity in every part of our country, but the means to defend
ourselves in an increasingly contested world.
Mr Sharma
The Defence Secretary’s predecessor rightly prioritised British
jobs over buying off-the-shelf from America, but The Times
recently exposed a difference of opinion with the Prime Minister,
who insisted on buying American helicopters. Can the Minister
assure the House that the Secretary of State will stand up for
British jobs and research and development, or is our only hope to
replace him with my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth
and Dearne ()?
Debate is ongoing in defence procurement, and has been for many
years, about the difference between buying off-the-shelf and
having our own sovereign capability. The fact is that, until we
brought out the defence and security industrial strategy in 2021,
arguably the default position of the MOD was to go primarily for
value for money. Since DSIS, we have a more flexible and balanced
approach, seen in many specific procurements, where we give much
greater weighting to social value and local content. This is
illustrated in many procurements because, above all, we want to
support British jobs and have our own sovereign capability.
(Rayleigh and Wickford)
(Con)
My condolences to the Secretary of State.
Babcock is one of the largest defence employers in the country,
but as reported in the Sunday press, its record on refits of
surface ships is woeful. It took over four years to refit the
Type 23 frigate HMS Iron Duke. Its record on submarines is even
worse, taking seven years to refit a Trident boat. According to
the journal Navy Lookout, which said this online, so presumably
the Russians and the Chinese could have read it, a few weeks ago
not a single one of our attack submarines was at sea; they were
all tied up alongside. This is deeply embarrassing to the
Department and to the Royal Navy, whose admirals are tearing
their hair out. It is Babcock’s fault. Will Minister get the
senior directors of Babcock into the Department for an interview
without coffee, and ask them to raise their game for the benefit
of the Navy and the defence of the realm?
I have the greatest respect for my right hon. Friend, but he will
appreciate that we do not comment on the operational availability
of submarines, which is a particularly sensitive matter. However,
he is absolutely right that we need to focus on the time it is
taking to bring ships and all aspects of our fleet back into
service. I confirm that I regularly engage with Babcock, and I
will visit Devonport very soon.
Mr Speaker
I welcome the shadow Minister, , to her role.
(Garston and Halewood)
(Lab)
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.
The Government have wasted £15 billion through the mismanagement
of defence procurement, while failing to deliver vital equipment
and overseeing the loss of 30,000 highly skilled jobs in the
defence and aerospace industry since 2010. Does the Minister
accept that preventing another 13 years of Tory failure is key to
increasing the number of UK-based jobs in the defence sector,
backing British industry and British military resilience?
I welcome the right hon. Lady to her new position as my
ministerial shadow. We are very proud of our record, because in
the past year or so we have been faced with a war on our doorstep
in Europe, and procurement has risen to the occasion. Defence
Equipment and Support in Abbey Wood has delivered kit to Ukraine
in record speed. We have seen the acquisition of equipment such
as the Archer on a quick basis, to fit our requirements. I
absolutely confirm that we are committed to maximising the number
of jobs that come from our procurement, while balancing that with
the need to give our armed forces the best possible
capability.
Support for Veterans
(Erewash) (Con)
5. What steps his Department is taking to support
veterans.(906297)
(Oldham East and
Saddleworth) (Lab)
11. What recent steps Veterans UK has taken to support veterans
and their families.(906304)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
The MOD delivers a range of services to veterans and their
families, including the administration and payment of armed
forces pensions and compensation, and tailored advice and
assistance through the Veterans Welfare Service, Defence
Transition Services and integrated personal commissioning for
veterans. The independent reviews of those services were
published in July, and we will respond in full to the
recommendations later this year.
Last October my constituent, a disabled veteran who served with
distinction in Afghanistan and Iraq, applied to the war pension
and armed forces compensation schemes. Despite his supplying all
the information required, and medical evidence, he is still
waiting for the determination of his case almost 12 months on.
Will my right hon. Friend look into the case as a matter of
urgency and carry out a review of the waiting times for the
schemes to make sure that nobody else has to wait such a long
time to get their due rewards?
Dr Murrison
If my hon. Friend is able to provide further details of that
specific case, I would be happy to investigate. The latest armed
forces compensation scheme quinquennial review was published on
17 July 2023. The review process aims to ensure that the scheme
remains fit for purpose and to identify opportunities for
improvement of the sort that my hon. Friend highlighted. The
review’s recommendations are currently being considered—I think
timeliness is foremost among them—and a Government response will
be published later this year.
The Royal British Legion’s recent report showed that only 8% of
disabled veterans who applied for employment and support
allowance had their service medical records considered in their
work capability assessment. I extend my condolences to the
Defence Secretary, but what discussions has he had with the
Secretary of State for Work and Pensions about this matter, and
on disregarding all military compensation awards for means-tested
and income-based assessments such as for housing benefit?
Dr Murrison
Such conversations are live in the context of the work I
previously described. We will take into account the hon. Lady’s
points, which have been made by several people in the defence and
veterans community. I know that people feel strongly about such
issues. Ultimately, of course, it is a matter for the Department
for Work and Pensions and the Treasury.
(North Wiltshire) (Con)
This House as a whole provides vociferous support for our
veterans of all kinds, particularly through the mechanism of the
all-party parliamentary group for the armed forces. Perhaps I can
take this opportunity to pay tribute to Miss Amy Swash, who has
now run the APPG for me for eight years, but will sadly leave us
shortly for other jobs. I thank her for all the work she has done
for a superb amount of time, in particular to raise the plight of
veterans.
Dr Murrison
My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I add my tributes to his.
I also express my admiration for the armed forces parliamentary
scheme, which does a fantastic job in informing and educating
colleagues.
(Eltham) (Lab)
In July, the Government published a review of the treatment of
LGBTQ+ veterans. The previous Secretary of State’s response to
that won him many plaudits and his reaction was welcomed, but he
did say that he would take his time to ensure we got things
right. Can the Minister give us an update on when we can expect a
response to the recommendations?
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He is right to raise that.
At the time I said that the community should allow us time, but
not too much time, and I am sure they will hold us to that. We
will respond in full to the large number of recommendations, but
we are broadly supportive of Lord Etherton’s work and there is
much in it that we utterly agree with, plus some that we would
like to add in the way of changes for the future.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Luton South) (Lab)
On that theme, the loss of livelihoods and the long-term
suffering endured by LGBT+ veterans due to the cruel and unjust
ban on homosexuality in the armed forces has been enormous. The
Opposition welcome the Etherton review into the ban, and its
recommendations, which represent the beginning of a long-overdue
healing process. The Secretary of State’s predecessor promised
that the Government would provide a full response to the review’s
recommendations after the summer recess, which the House would
have an opportunity to debate. Will the Minister confirm when the
Government will respond to the recommendations and that the House
will still be provided with time to debate that response?
Dr Murrison
Clearly, we will be debating this at some length; I hope the
House, when it sees the Government response to Lord Etherton’s
recommendations, will be pleased with it. At the moment, we are
working with the community, particularly Fighting With Pride, to
ensure that what we put in place is right and is acceptable to
those who have been done down by the events between 1967 to
2000.
Nuclear Test Medals
(Bosworth) (Con)
6. What steps his Department is taking to deliver nuclear test
medals. (906298)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
I am pleased to say that the nuclear test medal is now in
production, and we are ensuring that as many as possible of the
more than 2,000 veterans and families who have applied for the
medal will have it in time for this year’s Remembrance
events.
Dr Evans
The Minister will know that I take an interest in the veterans
issue, and I declare an interest as the president of Hinckley’s
Royal British Legion. A constituent, Alfred Roy Davenport, served
in the RAF medical team from November 1956 to November 1959,
stationed on Christmas Island. He is 85 and concerned about the
delay there has been in the awarding of these medals, so can my
right hon. Friend confirm that all veterans will have these
awards ready for Remembrance Sunday, so that our servicemen and
women can be congratulated on and recognised for their
service?
Dr Murrison
As my right hon. Friend the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs stated
in the House on 7 September, the Government are doing everything
possible to ensure that as many nuclear test veterans as possible
receive their medals in time for Remembrance Sunday. I appreciate
the importance of that. A presentation event to award the first
medals is actively being considered by the Office for Veterans’
Affairs, but it is a balance between issuing the medals for
Remembrance Sunday and ensuring that they are awarded in an
appropriate manner to this cohort.
(Barnsley East) (Lab)
In a written question to the Minister, I asked whether any files
had been removed from the MOD’s health records of nuclear test
veterans. He assured me that the Department was “not aware” of
any removal, but many nuclear veterans continue to report finding
large gaps when requesting their medical records. Can the
Minister therefore clarify, if the files have not been
removed,
how nuclear veterans and their families can gain full access to
them?
Dr Murrison
They will need to apply for a subject access request. I reiterate
what I said in my answer to her written question: we of course do
everything we can to locate records when people request them, and
I assure her that we could find none on this occasion.
Afghan Relocations and Assistance Policy
(Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
7. What steps he is taking to help support Afghan nationals
eligible for resettlement under the Afghan relocations and
assistance policy scheme. (906299)
(Warwick and Leamington)
(Lab)
12. What steps he is taking to help support Afghan nationals
eligible for resettlement under the Afghan relocations and
assistance policy scheme. (906305)
(Lewisham East) (Lab)
18. What steps he is taking to help support Afghan nationals
eligible for resettlement under the Afghan relocations and
assistance policy scheme. (906311)
(Hornsey and Wood Green)
(Lab)
19. What steps he is taking to help support Afghan nationals
eligible for resettlement under the Afghan relocations and
assistance policy scheme. (906312)
Dame (Llanelli) (Lab)
22. What steps he is taking to help support Afghan nationals
eligible for resettlement under the Afghan relocations and
assistance policy scheme. (906315)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
The Ministry of Defence’s priority remains the relocation of
ARAP-eligible Afghans to the safety of third countries at best
pace. His Majesty’s Government continue to accommodate and
support ARAP-eligible people in third countries while they await
relocation to the United Kingdom.
I am proud to have an Afghan interpreter for the British armed
forces as a constituent, but I was ashamed to learn from him that
his brother, who worked for six years directly for the Special
Air Service in Helmand province, had applied under the ARAP
scheme and been rejected without a proper explanation. He is now
in hiding in Afghanistan. Will the Minister take up that case as
a matter of urgency, and will he explain to the House why his
Government are still failing to support those Afghans who risked
so much to support our armed forces?
The hon. Lady mentions a specific role about which it would be
inappropriate to speculate on the Floor of the House. I will, of
course, look at the particular case that she mentions. However,
it is worth reminding right hon. and hon. colleagues that the
ARAP scheme was intended for those who had been in direct support
of the UK military—interpreters, most often—and, beyond that,
there is a very narrow opportunity for those with special
circumstances who have come through under category 4. When
colleagues write to the Ministry of Defence to raise a case, they
often do so on behalf of somebody who might have served in the
Afghan national security forces, not necessarily in the direct
employ of the UK military. That is not to cast any judgment on
the case that she raises—I will look at that specifically and
write to her.
There is a deep sense of injustice among former serving officers
and other military personnel that we have forgotten the moral
obligation to Afghan military personnel and others who served
alongside us. Will the Minister confirm just how many Afghan
former military personnel are currently presenting as homeless in
the UK, and how many are currently in hotels in Pakistan?
It seems that my initial reply might have been quite useful, but
the hon. Gentleman may not have heard or understood it. ARAP is
not explicitly for those who served in the Afghan armed forces
alongside the British military; it is for those who served in the
employ of the British military in all but a very narrow number of
cases. I will write to him on his precise question about Afghan
service personnel who are now homeless in the UK—I suspect that
they are remarkably few—but Afghan service personnel are not the
main target of ARAP. As someone who served in Afghanistan, I
share the sense of many of my former colleagues who would have
liked to have done more, but that is simply never what ARAP was
designed to do. Neither is it credible that the hundreds of
thousands of people who served in the Afghan national forces
could all be relocated to the UK.
In 2021, I held a public meeting shortly after the evacuation
from Afghanistan. It was widely attended by worried and
distressed residents, who all wanted help for their relatives’
desperate situations in Afghanistan. Over two years have passed,
and there are huge problems with ARAP. Can the Minister say why
the Government are allowing people and their relatives to suffer
for so long?
There is a known number of people who worked in the employ of the
British military during our campaign in Afghanistan. Our priority
has been to work through and match the lists of people we know
have worked for us with those who are applicants. It is my
understanding that only about 2,000 applications are outstanding,
and that 58,000 decisions have been taken in the past two months
alone. Overwhelmingly, those decisions are, I am afraid, to say
no to people, but we are making good progress and are nearing the
end of tracking down all those we know have worked for us.
I return to the question raised by my hon. Friend the Member for
Warwick and Leamington (): how many applicants are
still being kicked out of hotels in the UK, and how many are
applying from Pakistan and in hiding?
The Member for Warwick and Leamington () asked a very particular
question about Afghan service personnel, as the record will show.
I answered it, but I will need to go away and confirm, because
that is not something that ARAP is intended to meet and we will
need to see if we can find those statistics. The hon. Lady asks
how many applicants have been removed from hotels. The plan is to
remove all ARAP applicants from hotels, because they are not here
illegally; they have not arrived on boats across the channel.
They are entitled to be here, they have access to full universal
credit and housing benefit, and much more importantly, they have
the right to work immediately on arrival. Our priority,
unapologetically—I hope she agrees that this is the right
approach—is to get people out of hotels and into houses where
they can get on with the life that they so deserve here in the UK
as legal citizens.
Dame
It is hardly in the spirit of Operation Warm Welcome that, as the
second anniversary of the evacuation of Kabul passed, Afghans who
supported our armed forces were still left crowded into hotels at
the taxpayer’s expense, or expected to move hundreds of miles
from where they have managed to find employment and their
children have settled into schools. When does the Minister now
expect all Afghans in the schemes to be moved out of hotels and
given suitable offers of accommodation?
I actually agree with the hon. Lady—her question stands in
contrast with the previous one, because it was about the need to
get people out of hotels, not suggesting that they should somehow
be staying in them. The Minister for Veterans’ Affairs has been
leading on this task around Government. Few in this House have
more emotional energy to drive that mission than he does. He sees
it as of huge importance that people are moved out of hotels and
allowed to get on with their lives as quickly as possible. I will
ask his office to write to the hon. Lady with the exact detail of
when he hopes to see the job done.
Sir (New Forest East) (Con)
I commend to the Defence team and, indeed, the House the new book
by Larisa Brown, “The Gardener of Lashkar Gah”, which outlines in
great detail the sort of debt we owe to the people who tried to
help our forces. My specific question is not about people serving
with the Afghan forces; it is about whether we have a proper
database of all those who served with the British forces and are
eligible under the scheme, and whether the Minister can guarantee
that the scheme will not be closed while some of those
people—probably a large number of them—are still in hiding in
Afghanistan and thus unable to apply for it.
It will not surprise my right hon. Friend to know that the people
who worked for the British armed forces over our extended period
in Afghanistan appeared on many different lists, and part of the
job of work over the past 18 months or so has been to consolidate
those into an authoritative list of those whom we know to have
worked for us. However, we do have very good records, as one
would expect the military to have kept. That allows us to focus
our search on people whom we know to be eligible within the pile
of applications, and of late, to make rapid progress in informing
those who are ineligible. We will, of course, keep the scheme
open for as long as it takes to find all of those whom we know
worked for us.
(Witham) (Con)
I thank the Minister for his considered remarks. Will he join me
in thanking both Colchester City Council and Essex County Council
for their work in supporting many Afghan nationals locally who
have been in hotels since last autumn? The councils have aided
those people to get into housing; however, we still have six
families and 40 individuals who need to be supported in temporary
accommodation. As such, can the Minister give assurances to the
House about the cross-Government work that is taking place to
ensure that those families come out of hotels and become settled,
and in particular the work that his Department is leading on,
helping to get Afghans into employment so that they can settle in
the United Kingdom?
I can absolutely give my right hon. Friend the assurance she asks
for. Given her previous role in Government, she knows better than
anybody that those men and women who have come here have every
legal right to start work and to settle in the UK. They deserve
their journey here on the back of what they did in support of our
armed forces, so we will support them while they are in hotels,
and better still, once we have got them settled in more permanent
accommodation, we will support them into employment. I will make
sure that the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs briefs my right hon.
Friend on his work on that matter.
UK Obligations to NATO
(Walsall South) (Lab)
8. What steps he is taking to ensure the UK meets its obligations
to NATO. (906300)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
Our commitment to NATO is unwavering. We have strengthened our
force posture in Estonia, stationed a light cavalry squadron in
Poland, provided the NATO mission in Kosovo with personnel,
surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, and provided
specialist personnel to the NATO mission in Iraq. The national
flagship, HMS Queen Elizabeth, sailed over the weekend, and will
shortly fly the NATO flag as the NATO flagship while on
operations in the Euro-Atlantic. We contribute to every NATO
mission, declare our nuclear deterrent to NATO, and consistently
spend at least 2% of gross domestic product on defence. We will
maintain our leading position in NATO over the decades ahead.
I place on record my condolences to the current Defence
Secretary, and my thanks to the former Defence Secretary, whom we
wish well in whatever he undertakes to do.
I thank the Minister for his full response. He will know that
NATO’s obligations are to work with partners, so can he say what
discussions he has had with his counterparts in NATO about
working with the African Union to ensure stability and security
in that region?
Colleagues have rightly offered their condolences to the new
Secretary of State, and remarked on the anniversary of 9/11, but
the thing that has maybe fallen through the cracks is for us to
send our regards to the former Secretary of State, with whom I
had the great pleasure of working for three and a half years. His
effort and contribution to defence was quite extraordinary, and I
think he will be remembered in history as one of the great
Secretaries of State. He should be very proud of everything he
achieved.
The right hon. Lady is absolutely right that NATO’s southern
flank, Africa, is of enormous importance to Europe and the
security of the Euro-Atlantic. It will not surprise her to know
that, in the wake of the coups over the summer in both Niger and
Gabon, conversations among European Defence Ministers and NATO
Defence Ministers have been regular and urgent as people seek to
understand what the response could be. It does not look like it
is one in which NATO would be to the fore, but it is clearly in
NATO’s interests that a European response in Africa to these
coups is forthcoming.
(South Dorset) (Con)
I send my condolences to the Secretary of State.
As my right hon. Friend knows, membership of NATO requires an
expenditure of 2% of GDP. This is an arbitrary and paltry figure
bearing in mind the threats that we all face. What discussions is
he having with other NATO partners, many of which are not even
spending the 2%, to increase their spending on defence?
I steer my hon. Friend to the communiqué from the Vilnius summit,
which was very clear that NATO countries that are not yet
spending 2% need urgently to increase their spending to do so.
Our Prime Minister has gone further and indicated his willingness
to spend 2.5% on defence once the economic circumstances allow. I
think that that is the right order, because we cannot have
physical security without economic security.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Plymouth, Sutton and
Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
After 13 years of Tory Army cuts, serious and senior military
figures are now questioning the UK’s ability to deliver our NATO
obligations. While NATO is boosting the size of its
high-readiness forces from 40,000 to 300,000 following Putin’s
illegal invasion of Ukraine, UK Ministers plan to cut the Army
further to the smallest since the Napoleonic era. The last
Conservative Defence Secretary told this House that the
Government had “hollowed out and underfunded” our armed forces.
Is that still the position of the Ministry of Defence, and will
the Tory Army cuts still be forced through by this latest set of
Ministers?
The former Secretary of State’s comment, which the shadow
Minister conveniently quotes in a limited way, was that
successive Governments had failed to invest in the enablers that
underpinned our war-fighting capability. It is to the credit of
this Prime Minister and the two Conservative Prime Ministers who
went before him that commitments have been made to grow our
defence budgets, including under Prime Minister Johnson a £19
billion increase to the defence budget and under this Prime
Minister another £5 billion in the last year or so. The shadow
Minister also ignores this: when he says that NATO is increasing
its rapid reaction force, that does not mean that in NATO armies
are growing; it just means that the armies in NATO are committing
ever more of the forces they have to NATO’s high-readiness
formations. The British Army is to the fore in that.
Afghan Relocations and Assistance Policy
(Ruislip, Northwood and
Pinner) (Con)
10. What steps his Department is taking to ensure that the Afghan
relocations and assistance policy scheme is
effective.(906303)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
I said in May to the House that we aim to process all outstanding
initial ARAP applications by the end of August. I can report that
we have just 2,000 complex cases remaining from more than 93,000
principal applications that we received. We have issued over
58,000 decisions to applicants in the past three months, giving
them the clarity they deserve, and we continue to move at best
pace to process the remaining applications.
I thank my right hon. Friend and his ministerial colleagues for
the work done over the summer, including with Hillingdon and
Harrow councils in my constituency, on support for those who have
served in support of our armed forces. In future, as Afghan
bridging operations come to a close, can he commit to work with
local authorities to ensure that those who have put their lives
on the line supporting our military operations continue to be
supported in their new lives here in the UK?
I certainly can, Mr Speaker.
(North Durham) (Lab)
What liaising does the Minister do with the Home Office? I have
an Afghan special forces interpreter who came here having done
valiant work during Operation Pitting. His mother, father and
siblings left Afghanistan and ended up in Ukraine of all places,
and they moved to the UK last year. The Home Office gave them
temporary leave to remain, only for them to receive a letter in
the past couple of months saying that they would have to be
deported back to either Afghanistan, Ukraine or Rwanda. In that
case I interceded and the Minister’s office helped, but what is
going on between his Department and the Home Office?
From the question, I can see all sorts of ways in which that
might present quite a confusing case to colleagues in the Home
Office, especially if those in Ukraine proceeded to the UK under
a mechanism other than the Afghan relocations and assistance
policy. May I look at the detail of the case and come back to the
right hon. Gentleman, rather than speculate?
Service Accommodation
(Kingston upon Hull West and
Hessle) (Lab)
13. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of service
accommodation for armed forces personnel. (906306)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
The Government continue to invest significant sums to improve the
quality of UK service family accommodation, with £337 million
invested over financial years 2020-21 and 2021-22 combined, and
£163 million in 2022-23. The forecast for this financial year is
£312 million.
Ofsted chief inspector, Amanda Spielman, has repeatedly said that
she has “deep concerns” about the “continued failures” to improve
service accommodation for armed forces recruits over the past
seven years. Will the Minister explain why those concerns from
neutral Ofsted inspector Amanda Spielman have fallen on deaf
ears, and why those improvements are yet to be made?
This is an extremely important subject, and we care immensely
about improving our estate. Such concerns do not fall on deaf
ears. If that were the case we would not have put on the table a
further £400 million for SFA in the defence Command Paper
refresh. Precisely because of that additional funding, this year
our spend will be almost double that of last year.
(Gainsborough) (Con)
The Prime Minister said he was going to lead by example, and that
when it came to the military base at Catterick, he was going to
ensure that illegal migrants were housed there. We now understand
that the generals have said they do not want a bunch of Afghans
and Iraqis next to their squaddies, so nothing is happening with
regard to illegal migrants being put there, although the Ministry
of Defence is so determined that its soldiers should not be
placed near migrants that it is moving them out of RAF Scampton.
When will illegal migrants be placed in Catterick, as promised by
the Prime Minister? I want a date and I want it now.
I visited Catterick on Friday and I discussed precisely that
matter with senior members of the armed forces based at
Catterick. The characterisation that my right hon. Friend uses is
not correct. These matters are being considered objectively and
carefully, but that work is ongoing.
Defence Infrastructure Organisation: Service Accommodation for
Injured Veterans
(North Shropshire) (LD)
14. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the
Defence Infrastructure Organisation in meeting the needs of
injured veterans when adapting service accommodation.
(906307)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
The Defence Infrastructure Organisation provides additional needs
and disability adaptations to service family accommodation. Those
provide changes to SFA to meet a family’s needs, as set out by a
suitably qualified healthcare professional. Once the scope of any
adaptation has been agreed with all parties, works will be
delivered as quickly as possible. That gives service personnel
reassurance that their families’ needs can be met wherever they
are assigned, regardless of the length and number of postings
they have within their service career.
The Minister will remember that in June I asked about a badly
injured veteran in my constituency. He has written confirmation
from the former Defence Minister in 2021 that he would receive
extensive adaptations to his home. Those adaptations have not
happened, and the situation is so serious that Op Courage has
instigated safeguarding proceedings against the Ministry of
Defence to protect my constituent. In June the Minister requested
that I write to him. I did so yet again, but I still have not
received a reply. Will the Minister meet me finally to sort this
out? In doing so, will he reassure the House that a Conservative
Minister’s word is worth the paper it is signed on?
Dr Murrison
I think that is a little harsh. I have discussed this matter with
the hon. Lady, and I would of course be more than happy to meet
her to discuss her constituent’s case further. She will forgive
me if I do not share the details with the House.
Topical Questions
(East Devon) (Con)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental
responsibilities.(906318)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
I was privileged to attend the Invictus games this weekend in
Düsseldorf. It was truly humbling to meet inspiring individuals
who have triumphed in adversity. I took the opportunity to
discuss with my Ukrainian counterpart the care and rehabilitation
of veterans and the UK’s unwavering support for her country.
There are more than 265,000 former members of the armed forces in
the south-west, many of whom reside in my constituency of East
Devon. We must ensure that every veteran can access the services
they need when they leave the service. Can my right hon. Friend
update the House on the progress being made towards delivering ID
cards to all veterans by Remembrance Day this year?
Dr Murrison
My hon. Friend will be aware that phase 1 of this project is
already completed, which is to say that as people leave the armed
forces, they are issued with their veterans cards. Those who left
before December 2018 should get their cards by the end of this
year. A veteran does not require a card to prove their status;
there are several ways to verify service, and the lack of a card
should not act as a barrier to accessing support, but I recognise
the importance of this card for many, in particular as a form of
proving their identity and accessing services.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
(Wentworth and Dearne)
(Lab)
As Ministers know, UK unity on Ukraine stays strong and the
Government will continue to have Labour’s fullest support on
military aid. Ukrainians are now urgently asking for more to help
their current counter-offensive to succeed, and since January,
the Prime Minister has repeatedly pledged to accelerate Ukraine’s
support. When will this happen?
Dr Murrison
The right hon. Gentleman will know full well that the United
Kingdom is probably the lead nation on many fronts among our
European peers— financially, in terms of kit and in supporting
the people who are conducting the fight against Putin’s
aggression. We will continue to do that, and at the weekend in
Düsseldorf, I reiterated that to my Ukrainian counterpart. I do
not think anybody could be in any doubt that the United Kingdom
is leading Europe on this front, and we will continue to do
so.
But I fear UK leadership on Ukraine is flagging. The UK
Government have committed £4.6 billion, yet Germany has now
committed €17 billion. The UK’s 14 tanks have now been dwarfed by
324 from Poland, and last week’s decision to proscribe Wagner as
a terrorist group was taken by the European Union 10 months ago.
Will the Minister accept that we must accelerate UK military
support and redouble the UK’s defence diplomacy to maintain
western unity and solidarity?
Dr Murrison
The UK Government prefer action rather than words, and I point to
the 20,000 Ukrainians we are training, to Storm Shadow and to the
fact that kit is going out the door right now and being used on
the ground. Rhetoric is one thing; action is another. In that
way, I am afraid that the right hon. Gentleman has to admit that
the UK is continuing to lead Europe. We will certainly do so
going forward, and there can be no doubt that Ukrainians
themselves appreciate the strength and rigour of UK—
Mr Speaker
Order. This is topicals; I decide how quick they will be. I do
not need any help from those on the Front Bench. Can we please
make sure we get Back Benchers in? If not, tell me which one you
do not want to allow in.
(Northampton South) (Con)
T4. Continuity of education allowance is an important recruitment
and retention facility for the armed forces, but it has not kept
up with inflation in recent years. Can the Minister commit to
ensuring that CEA levels are not eroded in the
future?(906322)
Dr Murrison
CEA is an important way of making sure that the education of
service children is not disrupted. To that end, I have asked for
a review of CEA to make sure it is fit for purpose, and I will
have the results of that review later this year.
(Newport East) (Lab)
T2. It is 41 years since the attack on the Sir Galahad in the
Falklands conflict in which 56 died and many more were injured.
Ever since, survivors have sought transparency about what
happened, but they need documents declassified in full. Will
Ministers commit, like the previous Secretary of State, to read
the papers with a view to declassifying? Will they also meet my
constituent Mike Hermanis and other survivors to discuss
that?(906320)
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her question. Yes, I can
commit to meet her and her constituent, if she wishes to do
so.
(Kettering) (Con)
T5. A key question from the Ukrainian theatre is about the
effectiveness and lethality of emerging drone technology. What
steps are being taken to ensure that NATO has world-class
compatible, deployable drones to meet emerging
threats?(906323)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
My hon. Friend asks an excellent question. It must be clear to
everyone just from what is available on social media that
uncrewed air systems, as they are called, have an extraordinary
impact in theatre. I reassure him that we are working on a
strategy to look at how we can make the most of this capability
to ensure that, above all, we have our own cutting-edge sovereign
capability.
(Warwick and Leamington)
(Lab)
T3. The Ajax fighting vehicle is proving to be something of a
stealth weapon. When will the Government produce or provide the
House with a statement explaining where we are up to with the
project and when it will be delivered to the
frontline?(906321)
I did give a statement to the House—I do not know whether the
hon. Gentleman was present—in which I confirmed that we would
learn the lessons of the Sheldon review, but, above all,
confirmed the good news that Ajax was with the field Army for
regular training. I hear that that training is going extremely
well.
(South West Bedfordshire)
(Con)
T7. Dealing with the challenges that armed forces families face
is vital for strong defence. I made a promise to many of the
families I was privileged to meet during the “Living in our
shoes” review that the recommendations would not gather dust. How
can I find out where we are on recommendations 36, 48, 68 and 96,
for example?(906325)
Dr Murrison
My hon. Friend will forgive me if I do not know off the top of my
head what those recommendations relate to. I can say to him that
Defence is very fortunate in having him and his colleagues as
co-authors of the report on the armed forces family strategy
steering group, acting as critical friends and holding Defence to
account against the strategy action plan. I would be more than
happy to meet him to go through those recommendations one by
one.
(Glasgow South West)
(SNP)
T6. What assessment has been made of the extent of the use of
reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete within Defence estate
buildings? Has any assessment been made at Faslane naval
base?(906324)
At the moment, we are not releasing specific details because the
work is ongoing, but I assure him and the House on two points.
First, the Defence Infrastructure Organisation has been
undertaking a huge amount of work—in fact, there has been work on
RAAC in the MOD context since 2019. Most importantly, we are not
aware of any impact from RAAC on service family
accommodation.
(North Devon) (Con)
T9. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is vital that we back
British military manufacturers? What steps is he taking to speed
up delayed procurement decisions? Will he visit North Devon to
meet some of the innovative suppliers manufacturing here in the
UK?(906327)
It is good news on both fronts for my hon. Friend. First, yes, a
lot of work is going on to improve the speed of procurement. I am
also pleased to confirm that I have already a visit planned to
her part of the world in a couple of weeks. I will liaise with
her office about meeting those companies.
Mr Speaker
I call the Chair of the Defence Committee.
(Bournemouth East) (Con)
Today marks the anniversary of 9/11, and while our focus now has
returned to state aggression, does the Minister agree that the
threat of Islamic extremism—whether home-grown or from
abroad—remains and that our defence posture should reflect
that?
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Although the focus of
the MOD and so many other parts of the Government has
increasingly been on hostile state actors over the last few
years, today more than any is a reminder of the threat of violent
extremism. I pay tribute to the hundreds of men and women around
the UK armed forces who are deployed on missions countering
violence and extremism as I speak.
(North West Leicestershire)
(Reclaim)
Will the Minister update the House on the progress being made to
settle the claims of thousands of veterans and their families for
what is commonly called Gulf war syndrome?
Dr Murrison
The hon. Member is right to raise that. The armed forces
compensation scheme is up and running for them. I am afraid that
there have been delays in some of those applications; I referred
to that earlier on. On the science behind it, obviously, we in
Defence comply with the best available, as assessed by the
independent medical expert group, and we will make policy
accordingly. I understand the point he is making and would be
happy to discuss it with him further.
(Filton and Bradley Stoke)
(Con)
Ukrainian and UK defence companies are going up against barriers
and bureaucracy when trying to set up joint working and joint
projects. Could my hon. Friend update the House on how he is
reducing that, so that bilateral collaboration can be made easier
and quicker?
My hon. Friend has been an absolute champion of all matters
relating to our relationship with Ukraine. We have seen very
rapid procurement, particularly in relation to urgent
requirements going into Abbey Wood in his constituency. I
understand that he will hold a meeting shortly with some major
Ukrainian defence industrialists, which he has kindly invited me
to, and I look forward to engaging with him and those companies
soon.
(Tiverton and Honiton)
(LD)
Last September, the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk
() announced £2.3 billion to
be made available for Ukraine in this financial year. We are now
in another September, with a new Secretary of State. When can we
expect that sum of money to be made available to Ukraine?
The Prime Minister engages with world leaders all the time to
discuss what is needed in Ukraine, and he has an extraordinarily
close relationship with President Zelensky. Both my right hon.
Friend the Member for South West Norfolk () and Prime Minister Johnson
delivered on their commitments. The Prime Minister continues to
do exactly the same; he will be at the Dispatch Box in about an
hour and perhaps Ukraine might be mentioned.
(Sedgefield) (Con)
I am sure the Minister will agree that our veterans make some of
the best role models in society. Will he applaud my constituent
Bill Cooksey, who at the age of 102 completed the Great North Run
this weekend on behalf of NHS charities?
Dr Murrison
What can I say? I certainly congratulate Bill on completing the
Great North Run at such an extraordinary age. I admire him
hugely, and I congratulate him.
(Huddersfield)
(Lab/Co-op)
The previous Secretary of State promised that he would come to
David Brown Santasalo in Huddersfield to see the wonderful work
that the company does producing the defence equipment that we
need. Will one of the team be able to fulfil that promise?
It is always a pleasure to engage with the hon. Gentleman. If I
cannot visit that specific company, I intend to hold forums for
small and medium-sized enterprises around the country—the next
one is in Wales, but we will certainly hold them in his part of
the world—and I will let him know the details.
(Wrexham) (Con)
While Ukraine continues to combat Putin’s aggression on the
battlefield, there is no let up in Russia’s nefarious campaign of
espionage and subversion against western democracies. That
threat, and the so-called grey zone, spans the public, private
and defence sectors, aiming to continually challenge our critical
national infrastructure capabilities. What work is the MOD doing
across Government Departments, and the private and public
sectors, to combat hybrid threats?
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is helpful that the Deputy
Prime Minister is sitting on the Front Bench as I answer her
question, because he leads the necessary cross-Government effort,
of which defence plays an enormous part. The National Security
Act 2023 has been passed, as has the National Security Investment
Act 2021, and there is £2.6 billion of investment through the
national cyber strategy 2022. Defence supports His Majesty’s
Government’s activities, applying defence levers to protect UK
crucial interests from state threats by denying and deferring
adversary attack.
Mr Speaker
Order. I will get a sore throat if we carry on like this.
(Strangford) (DUP)
One of the greatest problems that my veteran constituents have is
housing accommodation. It is as scarce as hen’s teeth, as we
would say back home. What discussions has the Minister had with
the Housing Executive in Northern Ireland to secure funding and
housing for veterans who have just finished service or are
retiring?
Dr Murrison
Clearly, we want to improve service accommodation all the time.
However, 97% of service accommodation meets or exceeds the decent
home standard. That is admirable compared with the record of many
local authorities. We are investing in accommodation, and it is
improving all the time. I very much regret the occasional report
of accommodation that falls short of the mark, and we seek to
rectify it as soon as we can.
(Bracknell) (Con)
We have heard this afternoon how important the continuity of
education allowance is for service families. Does the Minister
assess that Labour’s proposed attack on private schools will make
it easier or harder to educate service children?
Dr Murrison
It would certainly make it far more expensive. It would also
threaten small schools like Warminster School in my constituency,
which relies very much on service families. I just reflect on the
sacrifices made by all people I know who choose to send their
children to independent schools, and in particular members of the
defence community who are of course required to make a
substantial contribution to their children’s education in the
event that they choose to educate them in the independent sector.
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