Asked by
To ask His Majesty’s Government what recent assessment they have
made of the impact of the cancellation of the Warrior Capability
Sustainment Programme in their Defence in a Competitive Age
command paper, published on 22 March 2021.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence () (Con)
My Lords, the integrated review has set the British Army on a
course of exciting transformation. Cancelling the Warrior
capability sustainment programme, rather than spending taxpayers’
money on upgrading an ageing legacy capability, has enabled
reinvestment of resources to support Army modernisation under
Future Soldier. The Army’s current capabilities, which include
Warrior, will remain effective until new concepts and
capabilities are introduced into service throughout the remainder
of the decade.
(Lab)
I have a very simple question for the Minister. Can she assure us
that, with the cancellation of Warrior, there is no capability
gap with respect to the Army’s mechanised infantry vehicle
capability? The Minister will know that the Warrior upgrade
programme has been cancelled, we are awaiting when all the 623
Boxer vehicles are to be delivered and, with the problems there
have been with the Ajax programme, we are unclear when that is
due to be delivered. Can the Minister explain why we should not
be worried about capability with respect to this particular Army
infantry vehicle capability?
(Con)
I can confirm that the Army has been allocated £200 million to
keep Warrior going and to assist with funding of Challenger 2.
This is all about bridging the important period of transition
from the old configuration to the new. On Boxer, my noble
friend—or my noble opponent—will be aware that initial operating
capability is expected to be achieved in 2025, with full
operating capability in 2032. Ajax is now in a very positive
place, having been through, I fully admit, its own travails. It
is in a good position and there is no operating capability
gap.
(Con)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a serving member of the Army
and as the Government’s defence exports advocate. There have been
challenges in the procurement of the Army’s armoured
vehicles—there is no doubt about that—but is not one of the
underlying issues that successive Governments have allowed the
atrophication of the land industrial base, which is something we
have not done, for example, in the maritime industrial base? We
have simply lost the skills over time by not having a constant
throughput of new vehicles. How will the Government address this
issue?
(Con)
I have admitted at this Dispatch Box, and my right honourable
friend the Secretary of State has indicated similarly, that over
successive Governments there has been a hollowing out of the land
capability, but my noble friend will accept that there is now an
exciting programme for development. I have referred to Boxer and
Ajax, and we have the exciting prospect of the armoured future
brigades. I point out to my noble friend that the equipment plan
for the Army is £41 billion over 10 years, so I hope my noble
friend is reassured that very serious planning is in place to
augment the land capability.
(LD)
My Lords, regretfully, it seems to me the Minister has not
answered the Question asked by the noble Lord, . Warrior was first commissioned
in 1984 and, as we have heard, its upgrade has been cancelled. In
spite of optimistic noises, there is as yet no service date for
Ajax, and it is exactly the same position in relation to Boxer.
If British Army infantry had to be deployed now, which armoured
fighting vehicle would they have in support?
(Con)
I do not share the noble Lord’s pessimistic assessment. As I have
pointed out, there is in place an exciting programme of land
vehicles. For Boxer, initial operating capability will be
achieved in 2025. We anticipate that very good progress is being
made on Ajax, and they will come into play later on in this
decade. I point out to the noble Lord that, as he is aware, we
have Warrior functioning; it is part of the transition. We have
Challenger 2, and we are upgrading to Challenger 3. We have got a
perfectly well-equipped Army. We observe our obligations to NATO
and we observe our obligations to keep this country safe.
(Lab)
My Lords, between the cancelled Warrior capability sustainment
programme and the extraordinarily delayed Ajax programme—it may
well be in a good place now, but it is not expected to have what
is called “full operating capability” until 2029, which is a full
decade longer than was planned—the MoD has spent over £3 billion
in failing to introduce or upgrade two armoured vehicles. What
lessons have been learnt from this, and what changes to
procurement have been made? Is there nowhere else in the world a
vehicle already in production that we could buy with some of the
£41 billion set down for capability of this nature in the
future?
(Con)
In relation to Ajax, I confirm for the noble Lord that the
initial operating capability requires 50 operational deployable
vehicles to be delivered and to be achieved by December 2025, and
that will be a significant augmentation of the capability. The
full operating capability requires 422 of the 589 operational
deployable vehicles to be delivered; that is to be achieved
between October 2028 and September 2029. As I indicated to my
noble friend Lord Lancaster, there is a very exciting period of
development for land capability; I think we should celebrate
that.
On the final point of the noble Lord’s question, I have
acknowledged that I think there is the opportunity for the MoD,
in procurement, to look at different models of getting things
when they need them. I think this is recognised within the MoD,
and I think the phrase used has been that we have pursued the
exquisite, involving cost and time, perhaps at the expense of
actually getting what we need, when we wanted it.
(Con)
My Lords, my noble friend mentioned the £41 billion that is going
to be available for some of this upgrading. Can she say when the
upgraded Challenger 3 is likely to become operational?
(Con)
I do not have specific information about that. As my noble friend
is aware, Challenger 2 is operating, and the Challenger 3 upgrade
is in place. I shall make inquiries; if I can find something more
specific, I undertake to write to my noble friend.
of Newnham (LD)
My Lord, the Minister has said the MoD has a new model of getting
things when we need them. Have we had Ajax when we needed it?
Does the forward set of dates not suggest we are not really
getting things when we need them?
(Con)
I actually said that the department is aware of the need to look
at the opportunity of a different approach to procurement, and
there may be situations where there is something on the shelf
that would work, would be adequate and can be obtained at a
reasonable price. That is certainly an opportunity of which the
department is aware, and about which it will be vigilant. On
procurement generally, I have said before that defence
procurement is probably the most complex in government, and that
is why, through last year’s Defence and Security Industrial
Strategy, we are working to improve the speed of acquisition and
ensure we incentivise innovation and productivity.
(CB)
My Lords, the Minister made clear Warrior has a critical role at
the present time in the British Armed Forces. Have any Warriors
been gifted to Ukraine and, if so, how many? Is there any
intention to gift any more to Ukraine, to help them in their
struggle against Russia?
(Con)
I do not have specific information to reply to that question, but
I shall make inquiries and disclose what is available to the
noble and gallant Lord.
(Con)
My Lords, it must be said that the Minister shows tremendous
optimism and does a very good job defending the Ministry of
Defence. Does she understand that the optimism she shows is not
shared around the House, on these Benches as well as elsewhere? I
do not see much excitement about the Minister’s announcement on
these Benches and elsewhere. It is not just our opponents who
think the defence procurement programme is a mess; it is us as
well. Could she please go back to the Ministry of Defence, the
Secretary of State and the Prime Minister and say that this
requires urgency: there is a war in Europe and we need to get on
with getting good equipment and munitions, and we are not doing
it fast enough?
(Con)
I hesitate to rebuke my noble friend, of whom I am very fond, but
there is at least one person in this Chamber who is extremely
excited about the MoD equipment programme sustained by an
unprecedented generosity of budget, and it is me, because I see
at first hand exactly what is happening. I see the excitement it
affords to our Armed Forces; they are motivated and responding to
the challenges in front of them. The Ukrainian conflict, while
desperately sad in one respect, has certainly heightened the need
for us to be investing in our capability. Everyone recognises
what we are doing; these new facilities coming on tap, to provide
the two new armoured brigade combat teams, are very effective,
muscular components. I ask my noble friend not to be too
pessimistic and cry into his beer because it is important to our
Armed Forces that we show we support them and we are behind
everything we ask them to do.
