Extracts from proceedings in the Scottish Parliament: Deposit return Scheme - Apr 18
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Topical Questions: Deposit Return Scheme 1. Maurice Golden (North
East Scotland) (Con) To ask the Scottish Government whether it will
provide an update on the Deposit return scheme, in light of the
First Minister recently stating that he was actively looking at
options around the scheme and that he was “taking advice”.
(S6T-01313) The Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and
Biodiversity (Lorna Slater) Delivering a Deposit return scheme is
an important...Request free trial
Topical Questions: Deposit Return Scheme 1. Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con) To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the Deposit return scheme, in light of the First Minister recently stating that he was actively looking at options around the scheme and that he was “taking advice”. (S6T-01313) The Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity (Lorna Slater) Delivering a Deposit return scheme is an important part of our environmental ambitions, and we remain committed to the scheme. However, we continue to need a decision from the United Kingdom Government on an exclusion for the scheme from the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020. Over the past few weeks, the First Minister and I have made it clear that we want more to be done to support small businesses to be part of our Deposit return scheme. That includes looking at options to address their concerns with a view to identifying fair, legal and simple solutions that will allow this important scheme to go ahead. The First Minister will provide an update this afternoon on the Scottish Government’s priorities for Scotland, which will include the Deposit return scheme. There was no answer there; I hope that the minister will be able to define the scheme, so that the UK Government can then make a decision. With just four months to go until the scheme begins, the minister and the First Minister have floated major changes. As we stand here today, we have no clarity on what those changes will be, so I will ask the minister a very easy question. She has proposed changes in relation to small producers. What is the definition of “small producer”? On working with businesses of all sizes, we want all businesses to participate in Scotland’s Deposit return scheme that are included by the regulations. As I said, the First Minister will provide an update this afternoon on the Scottish Government’s priorities for Scotland, which will include the Deposit return scheme, and I will provide further details in my statement on Thursday. The First Minister and I have made it clear that we want more to be done to support small businesses to be part of our Deposit return scheme, and we continue to assess the options. There was no definition and no understanding of the difference between a small producer and a small business. It is no wonder that the scheme faces such severe problems, but there is more. The minister welcomed the award of the collections contract for Deposit return to a multinational company with a dubious environmental record. When the Scottish Government agreed the proposition of DRS in 2021 with Circularity Scotland, it agreed that no new vehicles would be purchased and that no new sheds would be built, yet 200 gas-guzzling vehicles have been purchased and up to eight new sheds have been built. Why did the minister not hold Circularity Scotland to account? Like similar Deposit return schemes around the world, and under the legislation as passed by the Parliament, Scotland’s Deposit return scheme is an industry-led scheme. It is led by Circularity Scotland, which is a private not-for-profit company whose business decisions are for it to make. Circularity Scotland was set up by producers, retailers and wholesalers and, as a private company, it decides how to deliver the scheme for Scotland. As members can imagine, I have received a number of requests for supplementaries. I very much doubt that I will get them all in, but I will try to take as many as I can. Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) I understand that the current system of packaging waste recycling notes will end when Circularity Scotland’s system kicks in. Who will benefit from the loss of PRNs? Who will experience a disbenefit? The current PRN system is part of the producer responsibility system. The Deposit return scheme is also a producer responsibility system, so we are working with the PRN scheme to ensure that, in the transfer from the existing scheme to the new scheme, anyone who has participated in the PRN scheme is not double charged and does not have to pay a producer responsibility charge twice. Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) In a letter last week to the First Minister, the Campaign for Pubs spoke for the many small producers in my region when it said: “DRS exists in many jurisdictions and is the right policy for our time, but couldn’t be realised in a worse manner than the Scottish proposed scheme ... The few winners ... appear to be large industrial drinks producers and one large recycling company, who are delighting in the sweeping away of SME competition.” Why has the minister got this so badly wrong that so few small producers have signed up for the scheme, which they see as destroying their business? I am not sure that the member has that right—hundreds of small producers have signed up to the scheme. Six hundred and seventy producers have signed up, including many hundreds of small producers. [Interruption.] Members. As I have said, the First Minister and I have been clear that we want more to be done to support small businesses, including small producers, to be part of our Deposit return scheme. I will not pre-empt the statements from the First Minister or myself. The First Minister will provide an update on the Scottish Government’s priorities this afternoon and I will provide further details in my statement to Parliament on Thursday. Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) Does the minister not recognise that the Scottish Government’s succession of changes and many U-turns on the proposal has, as Colin Smyth suggested, undermined any prospect of it delivering the scheme? Such schemes are being successfully operated in countries around the world, but the Government has made an absolute shambles of it. Does she realise the damage that that is causing businesses across the country? I do not agree with the member’s characterisation of the scheme. There have been no U-turns, and we have been committed to the scheme from the start. We have been listening to business and systematically working through business interests to ensure that they can participate in the scheme by, for example, streamlining the exclusion process, working on cash-flow issues and working on labelling issues for smaller runs of product. We have been doing all that in line with business requests. We will continue to work with businesses to make sure that they can all fully participate in the scheme. If the member is concerned about uncertainty, I am sure that he is as shocked as I that, with just four months to go, the United Kingdom Government continues to keep us and Scottish businesses in limbo by not granting an exclusion from the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 in a timely fashion. The uncertainty is frustrating progress on the scheme and undermining certainty for businesses. I reiterate my call to the UK Government to follow the process and to grant the exclusion urgently, so that we can give businesses the certainty that they need. Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) According to Circularity Scotland’s branding and communications plan, we should be two months into the consumer campaign ramp up for DRS. What precisely has been produced? Has the campaign started? If so, is it on track? The beginning of the communications plan for the Deposit return scheme is to ensure that businesses understand what they need to do. Circularity Scotland has ramped that up in the past two months in particular, to ensure that producers know and that those acting as return point operators understand what their obligations are, and it has been working them through the process of their signing up to and fully participating in the scheme. First, we had producer registration. Now, we have return point operator registration open. Consumer comms will be part of that as that goes forward. In terms of communicating with consumers, all those steps are part of that communication plan. Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Last week, in a letter to the First Minister, the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, the Federation of Small Businesses, the Scotch Whisky Association, the Confederation of British Industry and many other business organisations—virtually all of them—argued that the DRS would increase consumer prices above the 20p deposit, hitting the poorest hardest. Even David Harris, the boss of CSL, who is paid £300,000 a year, admits that that is the case. Does the minister agree with the boss of her own agency? If so, why is she as a Green Party representative so intent on imposing, at the height of the cost of living crisis, price hikes to the poorest people in Scotland? It is a kind of green poll tax. I remind the member that Circularity Scotland is a private not-for-profit company, not an agency of the Scottish Government. I also remind the member that the regulations for the Deposit return scheme were passed by this Parliament, and we are implementing those regulations. Extracts from First Minister Statement on Government Priorities for Scotland The First Minister (Humza Yousaf): We also need some Government regulation of business. The business community itself recognises that an unrestricted market is incompatible with the wellbeing of our people, communities and environment. However, the balance needs to be right. A number of business organisations have expressed concerns in recent months about the balance that the Scottish Government has been striking. In fact, they have called for a reset of the relationship between business and Government. I am happy to start that reset today. I will do so by confirming three specific steps. The first relates to the Deposit return scheme. I remain committed to the scheme as a way to increase recycling, reduce litter on our streets and beaches and help achieve our net zero ambitions. However, we recognise the uncertainty that continues to be created as a result of the UK Government delaying the decision to exclude the scheme from the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020... ...As I was saying, we will use the additional time to work with businesses and Circularity Scotland to address concerns with the Deposit return scheme and ensure a successful launch next year... Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) ...I ask the First Minister, based on the commitments that he makes in his threadbare document, whether anyone seriously believes that this Government will close the attainment gap by the end of this session of Parliament? Secondly, we welcome the delay to the Deposit return scheme that is a humiliation to the Green minister Lorna Slater. Can the First Minister promise that this Scottish Government will engage with businesses regarding the Deposit return scheme, which it has failed to do so far? Finally, given the scandal engulfing his party, can the First Minister tell me whether the SNP remains in debt to Peter Murrell and when it intends to repay that loan? First Minister, I ask you to respond to the questions that fall within your first ministerial responsibilities. I will talk about the issues that I think are important to the people of Scotland. I say to Meghan Gallacher that it is awfully brave of her to talk about a global cost of living crisis. We are dealing with a Tory Westminster cost of living crisis. That is why the most recent IMF projections show that the UK Government is an outlier, with the lowest growth of any G7 economy. That is a Tory cost of living crisis and is a union dividend that Scotland definitely does not need. Ms Gallacher should own that, rather than trying to deflect us away from that. We have listened to Scottish business, and Lorna Slater will give further updates on the package of measures and the Deposit return scheme that we are bringing forward. Let us be honest about this. All of us talk about the need to tackle the climate emergency, but we are the ones—[Interruption.] Excuse me a second, First Minister. We need to hear the First Minister respond to the questions that Ms Gallacher raised. We are the ones who not only talk the talk; we are prepared to walk the walk. Every time we bring forward a measure on the climate emergency, the Conservatives are the first to oppose it, time and again. They are not serious at all about tackling the climate emergency. We will continue to talk and engage, not just with business but with the Scottish public, about their priorities. It is brave of Meghan Gallacher—some may use another word for it—to talk of propriety. Her Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and former Prime Minister are all under investigation by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. Although we absolutely face challenges, I would rather be standing here, with the opportunity to deliver for the people of Scotland, than languishing in opposition like Meghan Gallacher and the Scottish Tories... Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) For years now, the UK Government has failed to reach a decision on excluding Scotland’s bottle Deposit return scheme from the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, and it now very much looks like it has deliberately generated uncertainty to undermine the scheme, up to and including Alister Jack misleading the House of Commons. That is Westminster’s delay, but can the First Minister say what he and the Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity will do to secure—[Interruption.] Excuse me, Mr Greer. We need to hear Mr Greer’s question. A brief question would be appreciated. Thank you. Can the First Minister say what he and the Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity will do to secure the exclusion and ensure that Scotland’s scheme goes ahead next March? It is no surprise that the Scottish Tories do not understand devolution. There is no doubt whatsoever that not providing the exemption under the internal market act is an existential matter for the Deposit return scheme. We cannot progress the scheme without an exemption under the act, which far overreaches issues of devolution. I am absolutely committed to the Deposit return scheme, which will reduce littering substantially—by a third. It will increase the recycling rate of single-use drinks containers towards 90 per cent and cut emissions by 4 million tonnes over 25 years, which is the equivalent of taking 83,000 cars off the road. The scheme has already delivered hundreds of millions of pounds of investment across Scotland and it will create more than 500 new green jobs. We need the UK Government exclusion from the internal market act, and we will do everything in our power to achieve that. Some UK Government departments, such as the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, support an exemption, but we know that Alister Jack will do everything that he possibly can to undermine the Scottish Parliament and devolution. We will continue to do what we can, but it would help if those who say that they support the Deposit return scheme got behind the Scottish Government and persuaded the UK Government to do the right thing and allow the scheme to go ahead next year... Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) On 28 February, Lorna Slater said that “no one with any credibility would delay” the Deposit return scheme. Given that the First Minister has just done that, was she right? Of course, we know that the UK Government’s failure to grant an exemption from the provisions of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 is existential for the Deposit return scheme. In answer to the member’s question, no, the UK Government is not credible and never will be credible, which is why the Conservatives have been thrashed in every election in Scotland for more than half a century.
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