Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD) (Urgent Question): To ask the
Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will make a
statement on the strip searching of children. The Parliamentary
Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Miss Sarah Dines)
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for this important question. I also
offer my thanks to the Children’s Commissioner for her report: it
raises a number of concerns, which we take extremely seriously. The
Government...Request free trial
(Twickenham) (LD)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for the Home
Department if she will make a statement on the strip searching of
children.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home
Department ( )
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for this important question. I
also offer my thanks to the Children’s Commissioner for her
report: it raises a number of concerns, which we take extremely
seriously. The Government are, of course, considering the
findings fully, and we expect the police to do so too. This is an
important and emotive topic and, as with all areas of policing,
it is right that we shine a light on practices and policies to
understand where improvements can be made—and they invariably
can.
Strip search is one of the most intrusive powers available to the
police. No one should be strip searched on the basis of their
race or ethnicity. Any use of strip search should be carried out
in accordance with the law and with full regard for the welfare
and dignity of the individual who is being searched, particularly
if that individual is a child. If police judge it operationally
necessary to strip search a child, they must do so in the
presence of the child’s appropriate adult unless there is an
urgent risk of serious harm or the child specifically requests
otherwise and the appropriate adult agrees.
As the House is aware, it is the role of the Independent Office
for Police Conduct to investigate serious matters involving the
police. As one would expect, the IOPC is currently investigating
cases of children being strip searched, including the case of
Child Q. As part of those investigations, it will review existing
legislation, guidance and policies. It is therefore only right
that we await the IOPC’s findings in relation to Child Q so that
any resulting actions and lessons can be applied with joined-up
thinking across the law enforcement system.
It is for the police to perform their critical functions
effectively. However, for them to do so, public confidence is
vital. Our model of policing, as we all agree, depends on that
consent. That is why we have made it a priority to ensure that
forces meet the highest possible standards. Where improvements
are needed, I will be unapologetic, as will the Prime Minister
and the Home Secretary, in demanding that changes are made.
Thank you for granting this urgent question, Mr Speaker. I am
disappointed not to see either the Home Secretary or the Minister
for Crime, Policing and Fire responding to it.
The report published by the Children’s Commissioner yesterday is
truly shocking. Children as young as eight have been strip
searched, more than half of searches took place without an
appropriate adult present, and 1% of strip searches were
conducted within public view. Last year, I questioned Ministers
about the Child Q scandal, in which a 15-year-old girl was strip
searched at school, while on her period, without an appropriate
adult present. The then Minister for Crime and Policing, the
right hon. Member for North West Hampshire (), said that if there was “a systemic problem”, the
Government would
“act on it accordingly.”—[Official Report, 21 March 2022; Vol.
711, c. 29.]
This report makes it crystal clear that we do have a systemic
problem. It is clear that nothing has changed since Child Q. One
teenager told the commissioner that
“every time I’ve been strip searched, it very much feels like a
tactic used on purpose to humiliate me.”
No child should be profiled for a strip search because of their
ethnicity. No child should be strip searched in view of the
public. No child should be strip searched without an appropriate
adult present.
The Government say that the IOPC is investigating and that we
must await its findings. I say to the Minister that we have
enough evidence already, so I ask her the following questions.
Will she write to all chief constables to make clear the
importance of adhering to the Police and Criminal Evidence Act
1984 codes of practice? Will she implement the commissioner’s
recommendations to amend codes A and C so that an appropriate
adult is always present, save in the most exceptional
circumstances? Will the Government explicitly rule out performing
strip searches in schools?
The guidance is not being followed routinely around the country.
We need immediate action before another child is strip searched
in such humiliating, traumatising circumstances again. No child
can afford to wait.
Miss Dines
I thank the hon. Lady for her submissions. It is important to
note that while very occasionally a child as young as eight has
been strip searched—[Interruption.] May I just clarify this? It
is important to note that 95% of searches carried out are of
males and 75% are of 16 to 17-year-olds, and that something
illegal is found in about half the cases.
On the request for the Home Secretary to write to all chief
constables about the possible upgrading or reconsideration of
Police and Criminal Evidence Act codes A and C, that is being
considered very seriously. Strip searches in schools will also be
considered seriously. The report was received only very recently,
but it is being looked at very earnestly and quickly. Three of
its recommendations appertain directly to the Home Office, and
they too are being looked at very seriously.
(North West Hampshire) (Con)
I am pleased to hear that the Minister is taking the report as
seriously as she obviously is. It is clear that police forces
need to do significant work in respect of the alarming levels of
non-compliance with existing guidelines on strip searches.
However, the Minister will be aware that there is no boundary to
the evil that these gangs will perpetrate, and that if we create
no-go areas or particular demographics where the police are
restricted in some way in their searches, we immediately expose
those demographics to exploitation by gangs. She will know that,
for example, one of the reasons why county line gangs use
teenagers so much is that the police cannot recruit them as
informants. As a result, they are seen as easily exploitable by
those gangs. While the Minister does her work to ensure that when
strip searches are performed on minors that is done within the
guidelines, will she ensure that she does not unwittingly expose
very young children, in particular, to even more exploitation
than they are currently exposed to?
Miss Dines
My right hon. Friend is entirely right. There are serious and
important safeguarding reasons behind this, which is why it is
important that the PACE codes are adhered to. Young people are
often exploited by criminal gangs who recruit them to transport
drugs in intimate body cavities, and we need to identify and stop
that. It is shocking that about half the children who are
searched have such illegal substances on them, often because of
those criminal gangs. Stopping that will require a mixture of
policing and safeguarding, and we need to get the balance right.
Like my right hon. Friend, I am very keen to ensure that the
police are doing what they should be doing, because no one wants
them to go beyond what is unlawful.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Croydon Central) (Lab)
We all accept that in certain extreme circumstances it will be
necessary to search children, and this discussion does not
question that. The findings of the Children’s Commissioner, Dame
Rachel de Souza, on the strip search of children are shocking,
and I pay tribute to her. One child who was strip searched aged
13 is quoted as saying:
“They told me to get naked. They told me to bend over… I think
there were about three officers present. So, I’ve got three fully
grown blokes staring at my bollocks”.
I repeat that that child was 13.
Let us be clear about what the law allows a strip search to
entail. The report states that
“searching officers may make physical contact with…orifices.
Searching officers can physically manipulate intimate body parts,
including the penis or buttocks”.
That is very intrusive. However, Dame Rachel found that 53% of
searches of children did not include an appropriate adult, in 45%
of cases the venue was not even recorded, 2% of searches took
place in a public or commercial setting, and 1% took place in
public view. The report also identified very high levels of
disproportionality, with black children up to six times more
likely to be strip searched. This is not just a problem with the
Met; other forces conducted proportionally more strip searches of
children.
Child Q was strip searched in December 2020, and a report on the
search was published in March 2022. That was a year ago. I stood
in the House and told the then Minister that the guidance in the
authorised professional practice of the College of Policing on
strip searching children and Police and Criminal Evidence Act
codes A and C were not clear enough, but nothing has been done.
Dame Rachel has said exactly the same in her report one year on.
Why did the Government not act a year ago? Why have we allowed
hundreds more children to be strip searched without proper
protection? Yet again, the Conservatives’ hands-off approach is
under-mining confidence in policing and the safeguarding of our
young people.
I appreciate that this report is new and that the Minister is new
and she will take some time to consider the recommendations, but
the fundamental review of PACE called for by the Children’s
Commissioner is in the Minister’s gift and we have been calling
for it for a year. Will the Minister commit to it today? If not,
will she at least give us a timescale on when she will come back
with how she plans to act?
I hope the Minister will condemn the response of the Government
Minister in the other place yesterday in a debate on the same
subject, who simply said:
“I assume that they have very good reasons to do this; otherwise,
they would not conduct these searches.”—[Official Report, House
of Lords, 27 March 2023; Vol. 829, c. 17.]
That complacency and that optimism bias fly in the face of Dame
Rachel’s findings. Does the Minister accept that there is any
problem at all? We need to see change, and the Minister can make
it now.
Miss Dines
The Government and I very much welcome this report. There is, of
course, opportunity for change and improvement, and we must do
better for our children, but I do not accept the general
proposition that the Government are doing nothing, as the hon.
Lady suggests. That is simply not the case.
There has been ground-leading engagement recently. Since the case
of Child Q came to light, the Home Office has engaged widely with
stakeholders including the National Police Chiefs’ Council,
custody leads and stop and search leads. The College of Policing
is making improvements. His Majesty’s inspectorate of
constabulary and fire and rescue services, the Police Federation,
the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners and wider civil
society organisations have been engaged by the police. There is
movement in this space. Members on this side of the House take it
very seriously. We want to safeguard our children from the
criminal gangs.
The hon. Lady mentioned PACE. We are committed to looking at
that. One of the core recommendations that bites against the Home
Office is for the proper reconsideration of PACE to see if it is
appropriate, and that will be done. I give a commitment to
consider that recommendation carefully.
In relation to data, we have moved significantly in the last
three years in that regard. We have increased our custody data
collection to allow people who are looking at this to have more
cognisance of the research that can be done to improve things,
for example by knowing more information about the age, ethnicity
or gender of somebody who is to be searched. This information is
crucial. We cannot just jump to conclusions; this needs to be
evidence-based. I am pleased that the Government are working on
data.
This Government believe in scrutiny. As we set out in the
“Inclusive Britain” report, the Government and policing partners
will create a new national framework for how our police powers,
such as stop and search, are scrutinised at local level. There
are also protective measures to protect children and sometimes,
it has to be said, to protect police officers. There is an
increase in the use of body-worn videos to explore the sharing of
body-worn video footage with local scrutiny
panels—[Interruption.] Opposition Members seem to find this
hilarious, but I think it is really important that local scrutiny
bodies are able to see what is happening on the ground. The Home
Office is supporting the Ministry of Justice, which is working
really hard with the National Police Chiefs’ Council to develop
these scrutiny panels so that the use of stop and search can be
examined more, with the aim of addressing the difference in the
experience of ethnic minority children and adults in police
custody. This is really important work.
(Rochester and Strood)
(Con)
I, too, was worried and concerned about some of the things in the
report, but I am pleased that the Home Office is taking steps and
taking it incredibly seriously. In my constituency over recent
weeks, I have seen an absolute increase in gangs operating, with
children being exploited, and it is causing trouble on our high
streets. It is essential that Kent police continue to have these
powers to stop and search. My constituency and the people in it
mean a lot to me, and therefore, despite the moans and groans
from the other side of the House, stop and search is an essential
tool, as is the ability of police officers to search for weapons
and illegal substances. Will the Minister confirm that that will
continue, and that we will take the findings of the report
seriously?
Miss Dines
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. I know she works
incredibly hard on this issue in her constituency. There are
important reasons why strip search has to be used on some
occasions. It is a tool that must be used proportionately, and it
has to be in the police’s armoury when dealing with criminal
gangs. This is a safeguarding issue, too, and not only a pure
policing issue. We need to protect our young people from these
criminal gangs, and it is only right that we remember that the
police find something in about half of the cases. The police must
act lawfully, but we should not stop them using these powers.
Mr Speaker
I call the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee.
(Kingston upon Hull North)
(Lab)
The Children’s Commissioner has uncovered the shocking absence of
a working system of safeguards across multiple police forces.
There is no scrutiny by senior police officers to ensure that
basic protections for children are being met, and a complete
disregard for the potential trauma of strip searching vulnerable
children.
Again, just one week after the Casey review, we see that police
forces have systemic problems with transparency, scrutiny and
non-compliance with the rules. Given that even experienced
officers are not following basic safeguards, what will the
Minister do to ensure that the huge influx of new, inexperienced
officers brought in under the uplift programme—often supervised
by sergeants with very limited experience—are properly trained
and understand their basic duty to protect and safeguard
children?
Miss Dines
The right hon. Lady raises an important issue. As I have
previously said at the Dispatch Box, the education and training
of police officers is vital and more needs to be done. That is
why the Government are engaging with the College of Policing to
improve education in this regard.
Obviously, there is also local mentoring, but the right hon. Lady
is right that better scrutiny is needed, which is why the
Government are leading the push for better scrutiny of police
forces by local groups. The Government are working hard in this
area, and it is about time Opposition Members accepted the force
of the Government’s work, some of it groundbreaking, to protect
our children and the public from the criminal gangs who exploit
children.
(Scunthorpe) (Con)
We have an outstanding police force in north Lincolnshire, and
Humberside Police is widely recognised as the best force in the
country. I recognise there is a small, limited set of
circumstances in which these searches may be necessary, but we
have to find a balance between allowing the police to do their
job and protecting children. What can we do to ensure that, from
today, any child who finds themselves in a situation in which
they are to be strip searched by the police is able, if they
wish, to have an appropriate adult present?
Miss Dines
My hon. Friend raises an important point. Of course, PACE code C
says there must be an appropriate adult present unless the
specific exceptions I set out earlier are met. The PACE powers
are quite onerous, and it is right that, when the state does
something so intrusive to a child, or indeed an adult, the PACE
code must be adhered to. Where the Children’s Commissioner has
found the police wanting, there needs to be improvement, and the
Government do not shy away from that. There needs to be proper
protection for our children. PACE must be adhered to, and it will
be reviewed.
(Battersea) (Lab)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Twickenham () on securing this urgent
question. The findings of this report are damning and deeply
concerning. The case of Child Q shone a light on this abhorrent
practice of the widespread use of strip searches on children as
young as eight, with issues around safeguarding, child
protection, racial disproportionality and, more importantly, the
adultification of young children and the poor quality of data. We
know the trauma of this practice will have a long-term effect on
children’s mental health, so what are this Government doing to
protect and safeguard the mental health of children? Why on earth
is the Minister not accepting these recommendations now?
Miss Dines
It would be alarming if a Government accepted recommendations
within hours of a report; we need there to be proper
understanding and consideration. After looking at the three basic
recommendations, I am concerned that Opposition Members seek to
inflame local policing by emphasising, for example, the strip and
search of an eight-year-old, when there have been in excess of
2,500 such strip searches—most of which were of people over the
age of 16. It is not right for the Labour party to inflame local
policing by misquoting or misrepresenting what is going on. I
reiterate that 75% of those searched are 16 or 17, and about half
are found with illegal substances or weapons on them.
(Dulwich and West Norwood)
(Lab)
The shocking strip search of Child Q happened in 2020 and came to
public attention a year ago. It is not acceptable for the
Government to hide behind the Independent Office for Police
Conduct investigation in order to justify a lack of action on the
routine breaching of existing guidance, and it is not acceptable
for the Minister to downplay or excuse the routine breaching of
existing guidance as she has done today. Sixteen and 17-year-olds
are still children. Why has there been such a disgraceful lack of
urgency and action on this issue, and when will the Minister be
able to guarantee that children will always be treated as
children by the police, with the full application of statutory
safeguarding duties?
Miss Dines
With the greatest of respect, I do not accept that I have
downplayed the seriousness of this issue; it is very serious. The
Government received the report on Monday. Today is Tuesday.
Proper consideration is the basis of good government; there is no
need for knee-jerk reactions. The Government are working very
hard and will continue to do so. It would be damaging to jump in
on the Child Q situation before the IOPC report, as due processes
need to be adhered to, but there are concerning warning signs and
the Government take the matter very seriously.
(Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
What is the Minister doing to address adultification bias in our
police and justice system, by which black children are
systematically treated as adults and thus denied the basic
protections to which they have a right, as we see in the report?
Or will she dismiss it as more woke nonsense in order to hide her
Government’s fundamental failure of leadership on this
question?
Miss Dines
With respect, I have not used the word
“wokeification”—[Interruption.] I will be corrected if I have.
The adultification of any child, regardless of colour or sex, is
not acceptable. That is why we have code C of PACE to protect and
safeguard children. It is not right or acceptable that any
person—child or adult—is strip searched because of their
ethnicity, and adultification is not appropriate. The police
should not be making children feel like they are adults. There
are rules: there should be an appropriate adult present, and the
process should be done in an appropriate way. The police must be
called out when they are not doing this properly, but they also
need to be able to get on with their job when they are acting
lawfully.
(Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)
It is no wonder that a report by Crest Advisory found that just
36% of black children trust the police, compared to 75% of white
children. Black children know full well that they are not
receiving fair treatment, and we must be able to hold the police
to account for that. When will the Government commit to
compelling police forces to report annually on the strip
searching of children, including information on ethnicity?
Miss Dines
As I mentioned, collecting data is fundamental. Initially, that
will be on a voluntary basis, but the Government are working with
forces and the National Police Chiefs’ Council to improve data
collection in future years. Such information will be part of our
annual statistical bulletin. It is important that we have proper
evidence and data, so the hon. Lady is right to want that. The
Government are committed to improving this provision in
discussion with the NPCC.
(North Antrim) (DUP)
The Minister has made it clear that, if the police are to have
these powers, they must be used proportionately and within the
guidelines, but it is as obvious as a galloping horse that they
are not being used proportionately and they are not being used
within the guidelines. The statistics that have been produced
with regard to Northern Ireland show that in 2021—whenever we had
a period of devolution—there were 27 searches of children, and in
only one case was there an appropriate adult accompanying that
child. The justice system in Northern Ireland allowed that
atrocious set of circumstances to pertain. Between 2021 and 2022,
there were 53 searches of children, and only three items were
found: in one case, a mobile phone; and in two instances, drugs.
The Minister can say, “If you have devolution of these issues in
Northern Ireland, it can all be swept under the carpet.” It
cannot. This House and the Department are responsible now. What
will the Minister do about it?
Miss Dines
If the Northern Ireland statistics put forward by the hon.
Gentleman are accurate—I am sure they are, as he has done the
research—they are shocking and concerning. I am therefore very
happy to say that, in the absence of the Assembly, I will speak
to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to see what more
can be done. These are draconian powers; the police need them in
circumstances and in some circumstances they should not be used,
but there needs to be a proper balance. I am very happy to
undertake to speak to the Secretary of State about this
issue.
(Vauxhall)
(Lab/Co-op)
I try not to get personal—to keep things professional—but my
daughter is eight years old. To think that she could have been
strip searched and I, her parent, would not have been informed! I
think about all the other parents and carers whose children this
has happened to, on what seems to be a regular basis.
Following the news about Child Q, I and my two other Lambeth
colleagues—my hon. Friends the Members for Streatham () and for Dulwich and
West Norwood ()—wrote to our local police,
because we found that our borough had the highest rate of
multiple searches of intimate parts, or strip searches. This is
traumatising for the young people involved.
I would like the Minister to read an important book called
“Girlhood Unfiltered” by Ebinehita Iyere, which details the
trauma that these young girls are going through and says that,
for the young people being subjected to the experience, it is not
a new one; this has been going on for many years, and the data
and investigation are only highlighting the scale of the problem.
Respectfully, when will the Minister and this Government outlaw
this abhorrent practice on our young children, and treat them
like young children?
Miss Dines
Children must be safeguarded, and treated fairly and lawfully,
which is why it is important to have a full view of what is
happening. It is important to look at the statistics in context.
Unless there are exceptional circumstances, a child should not be
strip searched without an appropriate adult and without a parent
being informed. That is the law and those are the rules, and the
police must abide by them. When they do not, they quite rightly
must be held to account. Again, when it comes to the statistics,
I implore the Opposition to have some perspective: most of those
searched are 16 to 17 years old. When they are younger, there
needs to be a high level of exceptionality, and when the police
get it wrong they must be called out, which is why I take the
report very seriously and will be reviewing the three
recommendations to the Home Office.
(Lewisham West and Penge)
(Lab)
Serious concerns were raised in the Casey report about the strip
searching of children, alongside a damning account of culture in
the Met. We know that there are serious issues with culture and
behaviour in police forces across the country, so can I ask the
Minister why the Government still have not introduced national
standards on vetting, misconduct and training within the
police?
Miss Dines
As the hon. Lady knows, the Home Secretary is looking at these
issues at pace. It is clear from Baroness Casey’s review and
recent cases across England and Wales that such behaviour,
including instances of racism, misogyny, homophobia, are
completely unacceptable, and I have been clear that standards
must improve as a matter of urgency. The hon. Lady is right that
policing is built on trust and we need to improve standards.
However, I remind the House that the majority of police officers
and members of staff are still honest, good and committed and
work hard, and they can be let down by police officers who act
beyond the law. It is critical that we do not lose the momentum
that the Government have pushed forward, so we will be working on
this issue in conjunction with the Home Secretary.
(Lewisham East) (Lab)
I am truly shocked and horrified by the Minister’s tone. This is
an absolutely damning report. The Children’s Commissioner is
putting children first, when will the Government do so? Finally,
does the Minister consider it appropriate that children should be
strip searched in the back of a police van? In effect, this is a
violation. How does she think that this affects a child, and what
will she do about it?
Miss Dines
I am disappointed that the hon. Lady does not think that my tone
is appropriate. Strip searches are very serious. They have to be
lawful and they have to be carried out in the most appropriate
way, with the least amount of trauma. There is much research on
this, which the Children’s Commissioner has looked at very
carefully, and so will the Government. I can give a commitment
that the Government will be looking at this very important issue.
We have a balance to strike. We have to safeguard children in
relation to gangs, because those gangs will abuse them. If there
is a strict outlawing of strip searches, which some Opposition
Members would like to see, the criminal gangs would have a field
day abusing our children. That cannot be right, and we need time
to look at these recommendations.
(Wakefield)
(Lab/Co-op)
As a father of two young children, I am furious. I am horrified
by the findings of this report that children as young as eight
are being strip searched. I, too, have an eight-year-old child.
Many of these children will have been confused, humiliated and
scared, and, undoubtedly, this will have a long-lasting impact on
them and their trust in the police. The Children’s Commissioner
recommends that forces should review all the concerning strip
search cases identified in her report and refer them to the
Independent Office for Police Conduct. Will the Minister confirm
that she will accept this recommendation and issue a firm
deadline for the forces to comply, and, for goodness’ sake, Mr
Speaker, will she accept that 16 and 17-year-olds are still
children?
Miss Dines
Let me highlight the statistics, which are correct. Seventy five
per cent of those strip searched are 16 to 17-year-olds. Yes,
they are still children, but I have added that information to
show some balance. Very, very few eight-year-olds, with respect,
have been strip searched, and that has to be in exceptional
circumstances. However, I do take the report very seriously, and
there will be a proper consideration of what can be done. There
is always room for change. I, too, was concerned to read some of
the facts in the report. The work that was done is very much
valued, and I welcome it, because any criticism of the police is
an opportunity to do better. We on the Conservative Benches are
committed to do better rather than to grandstand on the issue of
ages. I remind Members that 75% of those strip searched are over
the age of 16 and 17. The Opposition must get a sense of
proportion. Mistakes have been made. When the police act
unlawfully we must step in, but we also need to allow the police
to do their job lawfully.
(Stockton North) (Lab)
I am not surprised that the Minister is struggling this afternoon
as she tries to defend the indefensible. Instead of doing that,
can she tell us how she will ensure that children are protected
from what could be termed child abuse? Did she really suggest
that body cameras could be used during strip searches?
Miss Dines
It is child abuse when criminal gangs are allowed to use children
to carry weapons and drugs. That is child abuse. As safeguarding
Minister, I wish to save each and every one of those children.
There will be times when the police have to do their job. As I
have said previously, in about half of searches, something is
found. There are occasions when the police go beyond their lawful
powers, and they need to be called out when they do. The
Government will seriously look at the recommendation to review
PACE codes C and A, but any change will be based on the evidence,
not on a blanket view that this should be outlawed or not. We on
the Conservative Benches believe in doing things proportionately
and carefully based on the evidence.
(Denton and Reddish)
(Lab)
I am afraid that, in her response, the Minister has been
needlessly partisan. We all want to see children respected by
authority. She is right to say that children must be safeguarded
and that strip searches, if they are to happen, have to be
lawful. There are huge variances across police forces. I asked
for the data relating to Greater Manchester police. Between 2018
and 2022, there were 20 strip searches, none of which involved
children under the age of 15. Nineteen involved boys and one a
girl. In 13 cases, illegal items were found, and seven resulted
in arrests. All those happened with appropriate adults present, I
am told. But then Rachel de Souza stipulated that the strip
searching of children requires robust safeguards, and I agree
with her. What does the Minister think needs to be done to ensure
that these safeguards are in place in every police force?
Miss Dines
Every police force needs to act lawfully. I am pleased to say
that there will be consideration of the variances in what should
be lawful and good practice. In relation to the 20 strip
searches—I am not familiar with the exact number, but I will take
the hon. Gentleman at his word—13 resulted in illegal weapons or
substances being found. That is, indeed, shocking, and we know
that, most likely, criminal gangs will be involved. I refer again
to the fact that there is a balance to be struck because it is
important: the police need to be able to do their job. They must
do it lawfully, but evidence shows that often, sadly, children
are being abused by criminal gangs and having these items on
them. I note with interest the statistics for Manchester. There
will be a proper consideration of exactly what the Children’s
Commissioner says about the variance between how police are
reacting and performing in different police areas.
(Strangford) (DUP)
Clearly, for all of us in the House, this is a difficult and
sensitive issue. All of us are concerned for the young people,
and some of us have given personal examples. As Members have
said, there seems to be a systemic problem. In Northern Ireland,
between 2021 and 2022, there were 53 strip searches, as my hon.
Friend the Member for North Antrim () mentioned, with only one adult present. I believe
that the Minister accepts that changes must be made. What steps
will she take to ensure that there is a concerted and agreed
policy for this UK-wide problem? Will she liaise with the
Department of Justice in Northern Ireland to implement reforms
that apply everywhere, because the Minister in Northern Ireland
and her Department also need to be accountable?
Miss Dines
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. I will of
course work with the Ministry of Justice, and I am sure that it
will also reach out to the Northern Ireland Department of
Justice. I, too, will reach out to the Secretary of State to see
what can be done. As I said in answer to the question about
Manchester, some areas have more concerning statistics, which is
why data collection is essential. This Government have moved
further than any other Government in collecting data. Data is
really important. I am not normally someone who relies to that
extent on statistical analysis in isolation, but it is important
because it enables us to point a finger at certain police forces
that frankly need to do better. I am grateful to the hon. Member
for raising that matter and I can reassure him that I will work
together with the Ministry of Justice.
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