The following Answer to an Urgent Question was given in the House
of Commons on Thursday 16 March.
“Yesterday, the Secretary of State published Transforming
Support: The Health and Disability White Paper. This White Paper
is a significant milestone, demonstrating the Government’s
commitment to ensuring that disabled people and people with
health conditions can lead independent lives and fulfil their
potential. It sets out an ambitious policy reform package that
will transform the health and disability benefits system, and
help disabled people and people with health conditions to start,
stay in and succeed in work.
We will deliver action in three ways. First, we will transform
the future benefits system so that it focuses on what people can
do, rather than on what they cannot, including by removing the
work capability assessment. In our new system, there will be no
need to be found to have limited capability for work or
work-related activity in order to receive additional
income-related support for a disability or health condition. We
will introduce a new universal credit health element that people
receiving both personal independence payment and universal credit
will be entitled to, which will enable people to try work without
the fear of losing their benefits. We will roll this out
carefully from 2026-27, and we will ensure that no one currently
on universal credit and with limited capability for work or
work-related activity will lose out once they move on to the new
system.
Secondly, while de-risking work is one side of the coin in
supporting disabled people and people with health conditions into
work, we know that we also need to provide more employment and
health support for this group. The White Paper sets out how we
will introduce a new personalised approach to employment support
and engagement, with the aim of helping people to reach their
potential and live a more independent life. We are investing in
additional work-coach time and tailored support. The Chancellor
also set out yesterday that we will introduce a new programme
called universal support, which will provide wraparound support
for individuals and employers, as well as additional money to
provide more mental health and musculoskeletal treatment for this
group.
Finally, we will ensure that people can access the right support
at the right time, and have a better overall experience, by
testing new initiatives to make it easier to apply for and
receive health and disability benefits. I am certain that our
White Paper reforms will support more people to reach their full
potential and reap the health and well-being advantages of
work.”
19:41:00
(Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for taking this Question. The PIP
assessment is designed for a totally different purpose from the
work capability assessment, so my first question is this: how
will the Government reconcile those two completely different
systems? What will happen in future to people who do not
currently receive PIP—those on the limited capability for work
and work-related activity element of universal credit—and
particularly those with short-term and fluctuating conditions?
Unless it is the Minister’s intention that some 750,000 people
will lose £350 a year, an alternative needs to be in place. What
would that alternative be and what would it look like? Finally,
do the Government believe it is fair that the hundreds and
thousands of people with disabilities that prevent them even
engaging in work-related activity should receive less financial
support through universal credit than people who are entitled to
PIP? If so, what is the basis for that justification?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work
and Pensions () (Con)
I will attempt to answer the noble Baroness’s questions. However,
I start by saying that, as she will know, these reforms are
the biggest undertaken in a decade and have been years in the
making, with our initial paper having gone out for a consultation
in 2021.
The main answer is that we are very much focused on ensuring that
more people are supported into the workforce so that they can
enjoy the positive impacts of work, through a more simplified
system. I turn to improving our services, which is probably at
the heart of the noble Baroness’s question, in focusing on PIP.
Putting aside the delays, which I realise we are making progress
on, employment and health discussions, which are being tested at
the moment, are led by healthcare professionals and focus on how
we can help people to overcome their barriers to moving towards
work. Furthermore, we have the enhanced support service and the
severe disability group for those with the most severe health
conditions, and we are developing the skills of our assessors to
match people’s primary health conditions. These are game-changers
and mark a significant change from the current system.
(LD)
The Minister said that this White Paper has taken a long time to
get here, but the rollout will not start until 2026-27, so I
really hope that the Minister will provide assurance that a lot
of the concerns raised by the disabled community will be
addressed before it starts to roll out. Plenty of people would
fall through the cracks—they are currently not receiving PIP but
they are going through the WCA process—so what happens to them?
The Chancellor said, with a great flourish, that sanctions will
be “applied more rigorously” to people without a health
condition, but many disabled people do not have a health
condition, so what happens to them? The current level of
sanctions causes distress and worse: the Government know that
Jodey Whiting killed herself after her benefits were wrongly cut
off, and the DWP was found guilty of five serious failings in her
case. What will the Government do to ensure that benefits are not
cut off from disabled and vulnerable people?
(Con)
I will quickly pick up on the noble Baroness’s point about the
Jodey Whiting case. Our sincere condolences remain with Ms
Whiting’s family. The department is ready to assist the coroner
with their investigation, but, as the noble Baroness will expect,
I am not able to comment on active legal proceedings.
On the noble Baroness’s point about timings, we are deliberately
rolling out this new definitive programme over a number of years,
which will allow us to look at those who might fall through the
cracks, as she put it. There is a lot of work to be done between
now and 2027-28. The main thing is that we are investing in
employment support for disabled people and people with health
conditions, and we are stepping up our work-coach support across
the country. That perhaps plays into another question: this takes
time to put into place, but we are already recruiting for new
work coaches, we are extending the work and health programme, and
we are rolling out our new in-work progression offer to help
people in work on universal credit.
(Con)
My Lords, occupational health services up and down the country
obviously play a vital role in helping disabled people to stay in
work and in their quest to get back into work. However, large
firms that have HR departments and other resources find it much
easier to access occupational health services than small
businesses and micro-businesses, so what can the Government do to
help them? Also, am I right in saying that there is a national
shortage of occupational health professionals? If so, what will
the Government do about it?
(Con)
My noble friend makes a good point: small employers are five
times less likely to provide access to occupational health
services than large employers. Only 19% of SMEs provide
occupational health services for their staff. Bearing in mind
that, as I said, this must be a game-changer, we have a number of
supporting initiatives in place: developing the test for a
financial incentive and market navigation support for SMEs and
self-employed people; working with the occupational health sector
to identify better ways to support development; and delivering a
£1 million fund to stimulate innovation in the occupational
health market.
(Lab)
My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about
sanctions, but I do not think that the Minister answered her, so
perhaps I will ask the question in a different way. Can the
Government guarantee that work-related activity will be voluntary
for those receiving the health element?
(Con)
It will be, but, as I mentioned to the noble Baroness, Lady
Brinton, we have a number of matters to work through, which is
why I have said that it will take time. Sanctions are part of
this: for example, in November 2022, the universal credit
sanction rate was 6.51%. Sanctions underpin conditionality and
are a key part of a fair and effective welfare system, so it is
right that a system is in place to encourage claimants to take
reasonable steps to prepare for and move into work. We need to
keep our eye on this.
(LD)
My Lords, this is an odd White Paper because it misses out a
whole chunk of the system: the link between education and
benefits. The Government have just produced a paper that says
they are going to do much better at identifying special
educational needs. Here, I should remind the House of my
interests. Reference is made on page 12 to all the neurodiverse
groups. You would expect these to manifest in the education
process. How are they going to go through? Are the Government
requiring an education and healthcare plan? Will there be some
other form of identification? How is this to be done? This is a
long-standing problem that means assessors and lawyers make
money. Can the Government tell me how they will disappoint these
groups?
(Con)
The noble Lord is right that this is another area we need to
focus on, particularly those with neurodiversity issues or,
indeed, autism. We have made progress in seeing more disabled
people in employment but, as he will know, progress is not even.
Groups such as autistic people are still showing very low
employment rates—for example, only around 26% of working-age
autistic people are in employment—so there is much work to do.
This will be a factor in what we look at over the next few months
and years as part of these new initiatives.
(CB)
I am glad that the Minister mentioned autistic people. How will
the proposals in this White Paper impact on people with learning
disabilities? They probably have the lowest rate of successful
employment of any group, with some 6% fewer adults in employment,
and it is difficult to see how such a complicated system is going
to help them. Can the Minister help?
(Con)
I hope I can help the noble Baroness by saying two specific
things. She will know that we have the national autism strategy,
which was launched in 2021. As to what we are doing now with the
recent announcements, it is very important to highlight our
Disability Confident programme. It is incredibly important that
we work ever harder to persuade employers to take on those with
these conditions, because there is no doubt that many of them are
able to work and can offer huge benefits to employers. This
disability gap needs to be closed.
(GP)
My Lords, having spent years of my political life supporting
disabled people campaigning against the dreadful Atos and its
application of the work capability assessment, I find myself with
some surprise echoing the concerns we have heard from all sides
of your Lordships’ Chamber about this proposal. My question to
the Minister is a fairly simple one. , chief executive of Scope,
said in responding to this White Paper:
“The Government has got a mountain to climb to win back the trust
of disabled people.”
Does the Minister agree with that assessment?
(Con)
I certainly do not. Having said that, we are not complacent.
There is an awful lot we have done, some of which I have
mentioned already, for the disabled cohorts, and it is incredibly
important that we do even more to encourage those who are
disabled to come into work. Having produced some surveys, we know
already that 20% of those who are disabled want to work, and
actually, 4% of that 20% want to work right now. So there is an
awful lot we can do, but the picture the noble Baroness has
painted is neither fair nor accurate.
