Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba) (Urgent Question): To ask the
Secretary of State to make a statement on the levels of
self-disconnection from power sources and on Government support for
energy bills. The Minister for Energy and Climate (Graham Stuart)
As I set out to the House on Monday, the Government recognise the
importance of protecting customers, including those on prepayment
meters. This weekend, the Secretary of State set out a five-point
plan on...Request free trial
(East Lothian) (Alba)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State to make a
statement on the levels of self-disconnection from power sources
and on Government support for energy bills.
The Minister for Energy and Climate ()
As I set out to the House on Monday, the Government recognise the
importance of protecting customers, including those on prepayment
meters. This weekend, the Secretary of State set out a five-point
plan on prepayment meters. He wrote to energy suppliers, calling
on them to take every step to support consumers in difficulty,
particularly those who are at risk of self-disconnection. The
Government want to see a much greater effort from suppliers to
help consumers in payment difficulties, including offers of
additional credit, debt forgiveness or debt advice. As the hon.
Member for East Lothian () will be aware, Ofgem, as
the independent regulator, is in a position to direct suppliers
in a way that the Government are not.
The Government understand that this is a difficult time for many
families. That is why we have put in place unprecedented cost of
living support. It is easy to take that for granted, but it is
extensive. It includes the £400 discount under the energy bills
support scheme, which has been appearing on electricity bills
since the October bills arrived this winter, as well as the
energy price guarantee, which does not need any form of
application process and directly subsidises energy bills for the
typical family this winter to the tune of an additional £900,
with equivalent support in Northern Ireland. The Government are
also committed to supporting those households without a
relationship to a domestic energy supplier with a £400 discount
under the energy bills support scheme alternative funding, with
eligible households able to apply from 27 February.
It is critical that this support reaches consumers, which is why
the Government have also urged suppliers to take action on
increasing the number of vouchers being redeemed under the
Government’s energy bills support scheme and why we have
published a list of supplier redemption rates. We want to
encourage suppliers to compare themselves with their rivals and
look to do as well as the best, showing which ones are meeting
their responsibilities and which need to do more.
There are also established industry rules and processes to reduce
the risk of self-disconnection. Suppliers are required to have
conversations with customers in arrears to set up a suitable debt
repayment plan, taking account of their ability to pay. It is
vital that these rules are followed. The Secretary of State wrote
to Ofgem to ensure that it takes a robust approach to compliance.
In response, Ofgem is reviewing supplier practice, and a key area
of its review is the suppliers’ approach to
self-disconnection.
But this is continuing work. This afternoon I will be meeting
energy suppliers, Ofgem, Energy UK and Citizens Advice to ensure
that they hear from the Government, the hon. Gentleman and all
hon. Members that there is a strong urge in this House to do
everything we can to protect everyone this winter, and most of
all, the most vulnerable.
A parliamentary answer on Tuesday disclosed that around 66,000
households in Scotland and 660,000 across Britain had
self-disconnected from smart meters in the third quarter of last
year. Self-disconnection is a euphemism for simply being unable
to afford to heat or power your home. It is as pernicious as the
term “collateral damage” is in war. Those afflicted by
self-disconnection and all its misery are also civilians, but we
are at peace, not war. These figures are for a quarter before
prices rose and temperatures dropped. They are also only the tip
of the iceberg. The numbers are far greater, as these figures do
not cover those on legacy prepayment meters, the numbers of which
are substantial, with almost 2 million in the UK and 300,000 in
Scotland. They apply to those that operated before smart meters
were brought in and they will substantially increase the numbers
so tragically afflicted.
In an energy-rich country, fuel poverty is an obscenity. Given
this heartless cruelty in a cold winter, will the Minister,
first, end the forced installation of prepayment meters
forthwith? Secondly, will he immediately abolish the perverse
higher standing charges and tariffs for prepayment meters?
Thirdly, will he as a matter of urgency bring in a social tariff
for the poorest and most vulnerable?
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his questions. He rightly raises
the issue of those who are self-disconnecting. I think we can be
proud of the fact that the numbers of people who were physically
disconnected from power and heat last year were in single
figures. The installation of prepayment meters has to be an
absolute last resort. We must insist that people do not end up
being physically disconnected from an energy supply. It is
important to highlight that all suppliers are required to offer
emergency credit when the meter runs out. This should give
consumers enough time to top up their meters. Traditional meters
have an automatic setting that allows for a set amount of
emergency credit to be used after the customer is notified that
the topped-up credit has been used.
As I have said, we are committed to having the right regime in
place. In 2009, there were issues around the additional costs of
prepayment meters. Ofgem had responsibility for supervising that
at that time, as it does now, and it looked into the issues and
brought in a regime to ensure that any costs and charges were
commensurate with the actual costs of delivery. To a certain
extent that has all been superseded by the energy price cap
brought in by this Government, which limits the amount that
anyone can charge for their energy.
Sir (Rochford and Southend
East) (Con)
It is excellent to have such a high-calibre Minister in such a
crucial role. At Prime Minister’s questions I raised the issue of
the energy bills support scheme, which has helped 99% of my
constituents. I am interested in the report that identifies the
worst and best performers on prepayment vouchers. The Minister
said that he was going to meet some of those people today. Will
he name and shame—and praise—people on that list and try to get
those right at the bottom at least up to the median level, if not
into the top quartile?
I thank my hon. Friend for his kind words. We are absolutely
focused on that, and we all have a role to play in increasing
awareness of the vouchers, which are so valuable to people. We
want to see more being redeemed, and the numbers are going up
consistently. We have published the list of suppliers and we have
already brought them together so that they can share best
practice. I wanted to publish the list so that it could be seen
not only by the House but by the suppliers’ chief executive
officers, who I hope will talk to their teams about why they are
lower down the list. If all of them, all of us in this House and
everyone in the voluntary and other sectors and in local
authorities do everything possible to raise awareness, we can
lift the number of people who get that help, to which they are
entitled.
Mr Deputy Speaker ( )
I call the Opposition Front-Bench spokesperson.
(Southampton, Test)
(Lab)
One way or another, there are more than 3 million households on
prepayment meters. With the rapid rise in prices and the
continuing energy crisis, they are now all at risk of unseen
disconnection, because they simply cannot afford the huge bills
and constant meter top-ups they are facing. Energy companies know
this, and they do not want to be saddled with account customers
in distress, so we have seen 500,000 warrants obtained,
particularly over the last year—18% up on previous numbers—to
drive customers in trouble with their accounts into forcibly
having prepayment meters installed in their homes, whether they
want them or not. Customer disconnection is then not the problem
for the energy company or the Government thereafter. For most
customers, the energy companies can simply change the supply of
smart meters from credit to prepay without a warrant being
issued.
What are the Government doing about all this? Polite letters are
not enough. Will the Minister now enforce measures to ensure that
the energy companies stop issuing warrants and switching smart
meters to prepay mode while prices remain high and the energy
crisis continues? What are the Government actively doing to seek
out and help those who have self-disconnected and are now energy
destitute?
The Government have said, and will no doubt say again today, that
help is on its way in the form of Government support for energy
bills, yet precisely the customers most likely to self-disconnect
are getting much less help than they should. As the Minister has
said, 30% of the vouchers available to customers on prepayment
meters remain unclaimed, for a variety of reasons. And the
alternative help scheme devised for those who indirectly pay
their bill, whether they live in park homes, communal buildings
or district heating schemes, has simply not arrived. It was
expected in December and then January, but we now hear it will
not be active until the end of February—five months after account
customers started to get assistance.
What are the Government doing to ensure that vouchers get through
and are claimed by prepay customers, and that barriers to
claiming are overcome? Why is the alternative help scheme so
consistently delayed? Do the Government just not care about help
for those living in park homes and other tenures, or are they
incompetent in organising that help in a timely way?
Those who know the hon. Gentleman will know he is normally better
than that. He knows, because we talk about it, just how hard the
Department is working to make sure we get these things in place.
We are proud that we got the EBSS discount out to an
unprecedented 29 million people. I make no apology for
prioritising getting the bulk of it out there.
The EBSS alternative funding sounds simple, but it is not. It is
a novel scheme with ambitious timescales. It is a complex cohort
with a range of different energy arrangements, including off
grid, direct to commercial and via intermediaries.
[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central
() chunters from the Front Bench, but she should
recognise the complexity of this challenge.
When we were looking at February delivery for the portal, I
challenged it. A few days ago, I met the four pilot local
authorities, which are across the devolved nations of Great
Britain, to talk about the situation. We must make sure that we
sort out all those complexities because, if we do not get it
right first time, the pilot authorities say it would delay
payments to consumers. My priority is to get funding to people as
quickly as possible.
Where people are not already receiving the main EBSS, we have to
look after public money by making sure their bank accounts are
verified and legitimate, and that they live at the address. Those
records are held across Government, local authorities and banks,
so a complex case-management system is required. Local
authorities need to be able to access the system securely, which
requires multi-factor authentication, and some local authorities
do not have the ability to implement that quickly. Robust fraud
checks are necessary in an application-based system, to which
there is no alternative for this group. Each iteration of the
application process needs to be tested.
I am confident that we will have the portal up by or on Monday 27
February. We will work with local authorities, upon which we
rely, and I thank the four pilot authorities and other local
authorities. We need to make sure that their staff are trained,
that the complexities are dealt with and that they have a robust
system, so that they can swiftly process applications and make
sure families get the money they so direly need. I fully accept
the point about the need for speed.
(North Devon) (Con)
This Government have given huge energy bill support to businesses
and households this winter. Although I fully understand the
complexity of the situation for park homes, what reassurance can
my right hon. Friend give to the multiple residents who have
contacted me, from Mill on the Mole near South Molton and from
Berrynarbor Park near Ilfracombe, that everything possible is
being done to get energy payments to them as rapidly as possible?
MPs know where their park homes are. If there is anything I can
do to deliver this support locally, I would be more than happy to
assist.
My hon. Friend is right that identifying the location of park
homes might sound relatively simple, and I hope I have made it
clear that there are levels of complexity that have to be dealt
with. We are doing everything possible to ensure this is done as
quickly as possible. Because of council tax bills, this is the
busiest time of year for the local authority staff who deal with
this. We must have a system that stands up, is robust and
delivers on time.
As might be expected, I pushed back in every way possible to see
if we could open the portal in January, but we could not do so
without risking the confidence and support of those local
authorities. We will make sure that we have it in place and that
we deliver it in the right way.
For months, my hon. Friend has rightly made sure that my focus
has remained on this issue by reminding me of her constituents
and their need for this help.
Mr Deputy Speaker ( )
I call the SNP spokesperson.
(Kilmarnock and Loudoun)
(SNP)
Come April, 8.4 million households will be in fuel poverty—that
is almost a third of all households—and talk of capping average
bills at £2,500 or £3,000 a year means nothing to people who
cannot afford to pay their bill or top up their meter. People on
prepayment meters are penalised with higher standing charges, so
those who either choose or are forced into not using energy build
up debt from these standing charges. Imagine getting into debt
despite not using energy.
These people are more likely to have disabilities or suffer ill
health. They are more likely to die prematurely and to have
mental health issues due to the struggles of daily life. I do not
know what their life is like, and I know for a fact that the
Government cannot claim to understand what their life is like. We
now need a proper social tariff and a further energy bill support
package as a priority.
Much more needs to be done to ensure the vouchers are redeemed,
rather than the Government just asking the companies to publish
data and urging them to do more. The Government need to put in
place a temporary ban on the forced installation of prepayment
meters. Is it not a disgrace that energy-rich Scotland’s Union
dividend is people who are unable to turn on their gas when
Scotland is a net exporter of gas?
The hon. Gentleman said this support has absolutely no meaning,
or something close to it. The meaning for those on benefits has
been £800 of additional cost of living support, on top of the
£400 EBSS support and the £900 of support organised through the
Treasury. This is real support. The cheap rhetoric we have heard
from the Scottish nationalists might be typical, but even so it
is disappointing.
The hon. Gentleman says we need to do more than just urging
suppliers to do more and to publish data. There is an
application. People have to take up their vouchers, and they have
to use them. I am all ears to any contribution he would like to
make on how to build that up, because the whole of
society—families, community groups, MPs and political parties—has
to get the message out to people about these vouchers. I am
confident that they are being sent out by the suppliers, so we
have to encourage people to cash them in at a time when they need
them most. There is always a danger that the people who need it
most—we do not have the data—may be the ones least likely to use
it. [Interruption.]
The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun () can make cheap points and
shout at me from a sedentary position, or he can engage seriously
and properly by trying to do everything possible to get a system
that makes sure people get the help they deserve. That is what I
want. If he thinks there are any practical steps that we should
be delivering immediately, he should say so.
We have said that we will look at a social tariff and at how
vulnerable people are looked after, but we have to look at it in
a considered manner. I am proud of the support that the
Government have put in place, and I believe it stands up
internationally. We are determined to support people,
particularly the most vulnerable, so that they do not suffer at a
time of extreme energy stress.
(Kettering) (Con)
Across the country and in the Kettering constituency, everyone
should be benefiting from the energy price guarantee, which saves
the average household £900 this winter on their bills. Everyone
should be getting the £400 energy bills support scheme in £66 or
£67 monthly payments. Those in bands A to D households should
receive £150 council tax rebate. What extra are the Government
doing for the 8 million lowest income households, most of whom
are on universal credit, pensioners and disabled people who are
most likely to have need for prepayment meters?
As my hon. Friend will be aware, there is a series of programmes
to support people in those positions, and £800 for all people on
benefits in addition to the sums that he has already itemised for
the House.
(Hemsworth) (Lab)
The Minister prays in aid the money that is being given to
households across the country, and I acknowledge that that is a
significant amount of money, but it is not working, is it? One
prepayment meter is issued every 10 seconds. Millions of people
live in fuel poverty. My constituent, for example, is disabled
and trapped in his house. He had a prepayment meter imposed on
him, but no voucher. He was left in freezing cold conditions in
the run-up to Christmas. That just is not acceptable. I am afraid
to say that polite letters from the Secretary of State or cups of
tea this afternoon with the Minister will not hack it. Does he
agree that it is time that the Government took legal powers to
intervene directly in the energy market in order to protect the
people of this country?
That kind of crude socialist intervention in the market would be
counterproductive, and it would be typical of measures that come
from the Labour party. Its members go in with high talk of
helping the weakest and poorest and they come up with policies
that have exactly the opposite effect.
(Hyndburn) (Con)
I wish to follow on from some of the questions regarding the £400
payment for park homes. Although I understand the complexities of
the issue, will the Minister set out how, once this scheme goes
live, he will communicate with the residents of park homes so
that they do access the portal? Furthermore, will there be an
alternative way to access the application process rather than
just through an online portal?
I thank my hon. Friend for her extremely pertinent question. We
will be promoting through a whole array of groups and, of course,
local authorities are key partners in that. We will be looking
for support from colleagues across the House, from local
authorities, and from the voluntary sector. We have also been
doing a larger-scale public communications exercise than the
Department has ever previously engaged with. In answer to her
final question: for those who are not easily able to access the
Government portal, there will be a telephone support service as
well. Again, this will be an application-based system. We will
not get to 100%, but I hope that we can work constructively. All
ideas are welcome so that we do everything we can to maximise the
take-up and make sure that people get the support to which they
are entitled.
(Twickenham) (LD)
My constituents living in houseboats and on heat networks have
been left out in the cold for months without support or
information. This is despite repeated assurances from the
Minister about the vital £400 from the energy bills support
scheme alternative funding. Applications for that were promised
to be opened by the end of January, yet, yesterday, in a private
briefing for Members, the Minister revealed that the earliest
that the applications would be open is the end of February, with
money not coming through until the end of March. Yesterday, he
also replied to a written question in writing to a Member of this
House that the scheme was still going to open in January. Does
the Minister accept that his answers to Members of this House
have been misleading and that he has broken promises to off-grid
customers? What on earth is he doing to ensure that my
constituents and people up and down this country get the support
they need in the freezing cold right now?
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. I think she will find
that the letter stated that the Government had announced that the
scheme would open in January, which was true—we did announce that
we aimed to open it in January. The pilot and engagement with
local authorities has shown that we need to delay that to
February, so I organised briefings yesterday afternoon to make
sure that all Members of the House had heard about that. I am
also seeking to notify the House as quickly as possible by
writing to Select Committee Chairmen and others to let them know.
We are doing everything possible to make sure that we have a
robust system in place. I set out that this is a novel system: it
is complex and it does rely on local authorities. It was after
personally meeting representatives of those pilot local
authorities that I came to the decision. I felt that this was the
right thing to do to ensure speedy delivery of this support to
her houseboat owners among others. It is also worth noting that
they have seen support if they come through a commercial supplier
of electricity through the energy bill relief scheme, but I want
to see them get their £400 as well, and I want a system that
works, is effective and is as quick as possible.
(Leeds Central) (Lab)
The Minister appeared to say in answer to an earlier question
that no one should be physically disconnected from their energy
supply. If I heard that correctly, and if that is indeed the
Government’s position, does that extend to people on prepayment
meters who cannot connect themselves to their energy supply
because they simply do not have the money to top up the meter? If
that is the case, I would be interested to hear what further
action he will take to prevent that happening in all cases.
The point about a physical disconnection—I think that there may
have been only one in the UK last year—is that it differs from
what happens with a prepayment meter. By having a prepayment
meter, no matter what pre-existing debts someone may have, as
soon as they have money to put credit on, they can recommence
their energy supply. Physical disconnection is when a person is
literally cut off and then has to re-apply to get their supply
back. That is an alternative that I do not want to see. The
prepayment system is an absolute last resort for those who run up
large energy bills, do not engage with the supplier and show no
sign that they will pay. Those people must be able to do
something and the installation of a prepayment meter, if
absolutely necessary, as a last resort and under warrant if they
will not engage in any other way, means that household still has
access to energy, so long as they put some credit on. That is a
lot better than bailiffs and a total physical cut-off. We can be
proud of the fact that we do not have people cut off from their
energy supply, although, admittedly, as the right hon. Member
says, they have to put money on the meter in order to be able to
access it.
(Glasgow Central)
(SNP)
I have had many emails from people who live in Dalmarnock and are
served by a communal heating system operated by Switch2, which is
not currently under Government regulation. These residents have
received a letter informing them that the price per kilowatt hour
is going from 11p to 32p, with additional standing charges. Will
the Minister tell me what support these people can expect from
the Government? At the moment, with the lack of legislation and
the lack of eligibility for other schemes, they are left with
heating that they cannot afford.
I thank the hon. Lady for her question. If she will follow that
up with some details, I will happily write to her and come back
on the specific points she has raised.
(Cardiff South and Penarth)
(Lab/Co-op)
I genuinely appreciated the Minister coming to meet us yesterday
to discuss these issues, but he will have seen the shock and
disbelief in the room when he made his announcement, not least as
he wrote to me just last week to say that the scheme would open
in January, and I have been asking him about this since October
on behalf of constituents in Sully who are affected. Nearly 1
million people across the country have had no form of support, in
lots of different types of building, as he well knows. Can he be
absolutely clear: when that portal opens on 27 February, how long
will it take for those people to get the payment? Are we talking
about a month, two months, or will they have to wait until the
summer? What advice can he give them in the interim? Should they
allow debt to build up? Should they turn off their heating? What
should they actually do, and what should the management companies
do, particularly in communal buildings, which potentially owe
significant amounts, with residents having not paid their Bills?
What is his advice to them?
The decision was made yesterday and I was able to brief
colleagues, including the hon. Gentleman—I thank him for
attending the meeting—yesterday afternoon, so I have tried to
move as quickly as possible. Of course, until a decision is made,
Government policy stays as it is until it is changed, and that
explains the letter. I certainly hope that the hon. Member for
Twickenham () would accept that I was not
being disingenuous. We moved to communicate as quickly as
possible once the decision had been made.
The payment will go through local authorities. Much as I would
love to give a define date, it depends when people apply. We will
be encouraging people to apply from 27 February—if that is when
the scheme launches—and then local authorities will be carrying
out their verification. We will triage that first, to minimise
the imposition on local authorities, but they will have to go
through a process to get the payment out. That means I cannot
give a definitive date, much as I would like to, and much as the
hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth () is right to suggest that
it would benefit people to know when they will get the support to
which they are entitled. I hope he understands that,
administratively, if I gave a date there would be a risk that I
would be back before the House again to explain why, in some
cases, it was not delivered. We will do it as quickly as we can
but, having talked to the pilot local authorities, they feel that
we are taking the most robust approach with the best chance of
getting the payment out as quickly as possible.
(Orkney and Shetland)
(LD)
For those who are getting support for alternative fuels, what
reach does the Minister expect the scheme to have for those whom
the Government have identified as relying on alternative fuels,
and how long does he expect it will take for the remainder to get
their money?
Following this urgent question, I will seek an answer for those
on alternative fuels who are in the majority group; it might be
where we are at in our data development, but I have not seen a
number on that. If I can access that, I will write to the right
hon. Gentleman, and I will seek a way of sharing it with the
House. Most people will be paid automatically with a credit to
their energy bill, which will be ready at the beginning of
February. I suppose that may not appear on the bill until March,
but we will have that up and running automatically for those with
an energy bill. We hope to use the same portal that is being used
for the EBSS £400 alternative fuel payment, and to open it very
shortly after the opening of the EBSS alternative portal. When I
have further specific dates that I can share, I will do so.
(Weaver Vale) (Lab)
A number of constituents have got in touch with me from Castle
View House, where several flats are sub-metered. They are
desperate, and have been for some time, for payments to get
through the door. I know that right hon. and hon. Members across
the House also have constituents in that situation, many in park
homes. I was not at all convinced by the Minister’s answer that
the portal will be open on 27 February and the scheme will be in
operation. What guarantee is there?
The hon. Gentleman is quite right to highlight the residents of
Castle View House and the park home residents in his
constituency, who are waiting and expecting to hear that they
will get the support to which they are entitled. I am confident
that we will have the scheme open on or by 27 February, and I and
my teams will do everything to make sure that happens. We are
working through local authorities, so we must ensure that we have
all the procedures—some of which I touched on—properly worked
through, and that we have local authority staff trained up so
that they can then process the payment. I am afraid that is as
far as I can go right now. It is a novel system; those working in
local authorities on council tax are used to collecting money in
rather than putting it out, but we are doing everything we can
and I am grateful for the work of local authorities for the
commitment they have shown, at a really busy time, in Wales,
Scotland and England to try to make sure the payment is
delivered.
(St Albans) (LD)
Up to 170 park home households in Frogmore Home Park, Newlands
Park, Highview Park and other areas of my constituency are still
waiting for their £400 energy support payment. I first raised the
issue of my park homes with the Minister seven months ago, and
only last night, by chance, we discovered that the scheme would
not be open by the end of this month. There are freezing
temperatures this week. We cannot wait another month for the
Government to get around to setting up a portal, which will then
take much longer to release the funds. I suggested to the
Minister last night that he immediately empower local authorities
to distribute emergency funds to those households. Will he do
that today?
The hon. Lady has passionately espoused the interests of her
constituents over a considerable time, and I share and understand
her frustration. She did not find this out yesterday by chance,
but in a briefing with me that was arranged for Members right
across the House. I am absolutely focused on making sure that the
portal opens on or before Monday 27 February, and that we then
get the money out to those who are entitled to it, with due
protections for public money as well as a focus on delivery for
them.
(Arfon) (PC)
Wales has a smaller population than Scotland, yet the number of
smart meters disconnected in Wales is consistently higher. In
quarter 3 last year it was 75,000 disconnected in Wales, compared
with 66,000 in Scotland; in Q2 it was 80,000 compared with
69,000; and in Q1 last year it was 60,000 compared with 50,000. I
am indebted to the hon. Member for East Lothian () for enlightening me on
these figures—perhaps the Minister can also enlighten me on why
they are like that.
I am meeting suppliers this afternoon, and I will be pressuring
them and continuing to talk to them about ensuring that they do
everything possible to support people and provide them with
emergency credit, repayment programmes and everything possible to
avert their getting in a position where they have to have
forcible implementation of prepayment meters, and to look after
those who are on them and ensure that they are in a position
where they can continue to access their heat and light.
(Glasgow North East)
(SNP)
Next week I am launching the all-party parliamentary group on
prepayment meters, and one of the first things we were looking at
is so-called self-disconnection. Given that I wrote to the
Secretary of State in September expressing my concerns about this
issue and have received zero response; given that the Government
have twice tried to block my Pre-Payment Meters
(Self-Disconnection) Bill, which seeks to outlaw
self-disconnection; and given that I have had no response from
BEIS to my debate in this Chamber on more general issues around
prepayment meters last December, which was supported across the
House, I ask the Secretary of State to commit today to meeting
the APPG as a matter of urgency. We have been waiting long
enough. The Minister can use terms such as physical disconnection
all he likes, but the impact is the same: if people cannot access
gas and electricity, they are stuck, and in 2022 somebody on a
prepayment meter was disconnected from their energy supply every
10 seconds.
I pay tribute to the hon. Lady for her focus on and proper
championing of this issue. I am not the Secretary of State but,
as the Minister for Energy and Climate, I will instruct my office
to reach out to hers and try to set up a meeting with the APPG
sooner rather than later.
(Halifax) (Lab)
The Minister can be in no doubt about the strength of feeling on
this, because we are going to have to go back to our
constituents—who, we having shared with them his own words, were
expecting the alternative fund at the end of last year and then
in December—and disappoint them again with the news that it is
not coming in January. He said that local authority capacity
issues are part of the delay in rolling out the payment, so what
consideration has he given to supporting local authorities with
additional resources so that they can roll it out faster? As I
shared with him yesterday, a member of police staff has told me
that she cannot afford to put her heating on. We need to make
sure that people, including dedicated public servants, can stay
warm, so how can we get it rolled out?
I do not think I identified capacity issues as such; it is more
about a set of complex issues that need to be resolved and then,
having resolved them, providing suitable guidance for local
authorities so that they are in a position to make the payment. I
did say that it is challenging times for local authorities,
because they are also doing council tax, but I am not hearing
from them that there is some quick fix. We need people who are
already trained to be able to use the systems, and it is through
those systems that we will be able to ensure that the payment
goes out. We are working with local authorities on the pilots,
and I am grateful for their help in shaping the system and the
guidance that will go to the other local authorities across the
country.
(Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch
and Strathspey) (SNP)
The Minister must realise that promises of reviews by Ofgem into
the activities of energy companies will come far too late for
people who are struggling now to pay their bills—indeed, who
cannot get anywhere near paying them. I am already waiting for a
promised meeting with Ministers about the malpractice of
overpayments being routinely kept by energy companies when they
are consumers’ money, and direct debits having shot up well above
the level at which they should be. The Minister has the power to
turn up the heat on Ofgem: will he do it?
I meet Ofgem regularly—we will be meeting again this
afternoon—and those are precisely the kinds of conversations we
have. Ofgem is working hard on coming down on the suppliers and
it has looked into making sure that suppliers do not build up
unjustified credits. I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but it
is Ofgem’s role as the independent regulator to supervise,
regulate and ensure that the licence conditions under which
suppliers operate are fulfilled. We are doing everything possible
to ensure that we hold Ofgem’s feet to the fire while it holds
suppliers’ feet to the fire.
(North Shropshire) (LD)
People who live in marinas and on houseboats are sub-metered, and
in my constituency, they are often off the gas grid. Not only do
they use prepayment cards—so they self-disconnect when they
cannot afford energy—but they are being charged a pass-through
commercial rate, often with 20% VAT added on. They have not had
help with their heating or their electricity, and they are
self-disconnecting. Does the Minister accept that offering money
in the spring, when those people have already gone through a
terrible cold winter, is just too late?
I share the hon. Lady’s frustration. Obviously we would have
liked it to get to them sooner, but I have laid out the reasons
why it has not. If their electricity is supplied by a commercial
supplier, the energy bill relief scheme has been directly
reducing their bills through that supplier. We have put in place
legislation to require those Government interventions to be
passed on to the end recipient.
(Carmarthen East and
Dinefwr) (Ind)
The Minister mentioned in his initial reply the energy price
guarantee, which has, of course, been extended until March 2024
for gas customers. There has been no further announcement,
however, for those who use alternative fuels—oil, liquefied
petroleum gas or wood pellets—to heat their homes. Can he give
the House assurances that he will put pressure on the Treasury to
make an announcement about next winter for households that use
alternative fuels?
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we will look carefully at
the cost pressures across different markets, as we did when we
came up with the alternative fuel payment, which was originally
£100 before we doubled it to £200. I know that that is making a
difference in Northern Ireland, and it will make a difference in
rural areas around the UK.
(Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Government and the Minister very much for all the
help that they have been able to give businesses and
households—there is much to appreciate, and we need to put that
on record.
Just this morning, a number of businesses back home in
Newtownards town, which the Minister visited last week, have
informed me that they are seeking small business support. They
say that they have turned their lights off, that they are
supplying thermals for staff to keep warm, and that they cannot
afford the current prices. Some have informed me that they face
bankruptcy. Would the Minister consider a small business relief
fund that could be applied to businesses throughout the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
It was a pleasure to see the hon. Gentleman in his constituency
last week; to meet community organisations there, including the
Consumer Council, which hosted us; and to learn about the
situation for people in Northern Ireland who are struggling with
their energy bills. He is right to highlight the fact that
businesses and others are struggling. That is why we brought in
the EBRS, and why we will have the energy bills discount scheme
from April. We will keep that under advisement.
Of course, in Northern Ireland—more than in the rest of the
UK—many companies use alternative fuels, and we are, again,
working on ensuring that we put support in place as soon as we
can. But because of the nature of that, there is no central
database, and we have to manage public funds. It sounds simple—if
I were in opposition, I would probably shout at the Government to
get it done, because it sounds so easy—but it turns out that it
is complex. We are working as hard as we can to put those schemes
in place a place even though energy is devolved and we should not
have any responsibility at all—we have stepped up because we have
had to, and we will continue to do so in this particular area. I
very much hope to see the institutions restored in Northern
Ireland and the Northern Irish people served by the people they
elect.
(Glasgow North) (SNP)
There really cannot be any justification for the premium charges
that are associated with prepayment meters. The energy companies
are getting cash up front from customers before any energy is
used. As I said to the Minister on Monday, they must be able to
bank that and earn interest on it, as with those who accumulate
credit balances and usually pay in arrears. Perhaps he can raise
that point with the companies when he meets them this afternoon.
Will he let us know what their response is in the letter that he
promised me on Monday?
Ofgem is responsible for regulating that area. As I understand
it, Ofgem looked into it in 2009 and made some changes then. It
required suppliers to make cost-reflective charges only—charges
had to be based genuinely on the additional costs of delivery—but
that has, to a certain extent, been obviated by the energy price
cap, which has put a tariff limit on what any company can charge.
I will make sure that I get a letter to the hon. Gentleman on
this topic.
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