Core Northern Powerhouse Rail: Public Funding
(Barnsley Central) (Lab)
1. What recent estimate he has made with Cabinet colleagues of
the level of public funding that will be required to build core
Northern Powerhouse Rail.
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury ()
May I begin, Mr Speaker, by wishing you and all of your brilliant
House of Commons staff a very merry Christmas?
The integrated rail plan, published last November, set out an
estimate of £17.2 billion at 2019 prices for the core Northern
Powerhouse Rail network, with a further £5.4 billion for the
TransPennine route upgrade. That includes building 40 miles of
new, high-speed line between Warrington, Manchester and
Yorkshire, as well as upgrading and electrifying the rest of the
route between Liverpool and York, and the existing line between
Leeds and Bradford.
I am grateful to the Minister for that response. The Chancellor
has rightly spoken about the importance of capital investment to
the long-term growth of the economy but, at the same time, he has
downgraded the £40 billion vision of Northern Powerhouse Rail,
which was agreed on a cross-party basis with northern leaders, to
the much-reduced £17 billion core scheme. Decisions on Northern
Powerhouse Rail will shape the future of the railways in the
north of England for generations to come and unlock massive
economic benefits. Will the Minister look at refocusing Treasury
appraisal of NPR on its long-term transformative benefits and
whole-life value, rather than on short-term factors? Otherwise, a
massive opportunity, not just for the north, but for the whole of
the country, will be missed.
I commend the hon. Gentleman, who speaks with great passion on
these issues. He is right that the Chancellor is absolutely
committed to the long-term benefit to the economy of capital
investment and infrastructure schemes like these. Just to be
clear, the IRP set out the Government’s view that the core NPR
network is the most effective way to deliver rail connectivity
benefiting the north. Our plans would deliver substantial
journey-time saving and capacity benefits all the way from
Liverpool to York. It will do so far more quickly and
cost-effectively than alternatives.
Energy Producer Profit Trends
(North East Fife)
(LD)
2. What assessment he has made of the implications for his
policies of trends in the level of energy producer profits in the
last 12 months.
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury ()
The structure of the electricity market means that the price of
electricity is tied to the wholesale gas price. Russia’s invasion
of Ukraine triggered an unprecedented increase in gas prices,
driving energy prices to eight times their historic levels. As a
result, many energy generators’ profits are well above pre-crisis
levels. As announced at the autumn statement, the Government are
introducing a temporary 45% tax on extraordinary returns made by
some UK electricity generators from 1 January.
Mr Speaker
I call , whose birthday it is
today. Happy birthday.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Shell announced worldwide profits of £8.2 billion and £9 billion
for the three-month period between July and September and the
three months to June. BP announced more than double its profits
for the same period. They have increased their dividend payments
and spent billions buying back their own shares from the market.
Shell says that it does not expect to pay any windfall tax at all
this year and BP said that it would pay £678 million. Does the
Minister agree that, if the Government had implemented a proper
windfall tax that captured these things, we could be supporting
offshore customers such as my own in North East Fife?
Obviously, the hon. Lady knows that we do not comment on the
commercial decisions of individual companies. What I can confirm
is that the specific levy to which she refers—the energy profits
levy—will contribute £40 billion to the Exchequer. We must
remember that that £40 billion will play a key part in enabling
us to afford the support that we are giving to constituents
throughout the United Kingdom this winter and next year, which
will total, for businesses and households, more than £100
billion, and the Office for Budget Responsibility has already
found that that will help to reduce inflation overall.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Erith and Thamesmead)
(Lab)
May I begin, Mr Speaker, by wishing you, the Minister and the
whole House a jolly Christmas?
If the Government had implemented Labour’s windfall tax, they
would have raised an additional £16.8 billion. Why have the
Government chosen to leave this windfall of war on the table and
not put it to use to support families and businesses in the tough
winter ahead?
I do not entirely accept that. I would be interested to know the
detail behind that figure. What we can confirm is that we have
two specific levies: one on oil and gas, and one on certain
electricity generators. We think that these are being applied in
a very fair way. The levy to which the hon. Member refers does
include an allowance for investment but this is the point. That
level of support cannot continue for ever. The long-term answer
is energy security—investment in new energy sources and, indeed,
investment in the North sea, supporting UK jobs and the
transition to net zero.
Financial Conduct Authority: Loyalty Penalties in Insurance
Market.
(Weston-super-Mare) (Con)
3. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the
Financial Conduct Authority in protecting customers from loyalty
penalties in the insurance market.
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury ()
The Government welcome the Financial Conduct Authority’s pricing
rules, introduced in January this year, which require insurers to
offer a renewal price no greater than the price the firm would
offer to a new customer for the same policy. The Financial
Conduct Authority has confirmed there is no evidence of
widespread non-compliance with those rules.
The FCA’s cheap and, we hope, effective measures to stop
insurance company customers being ripped off is in stark contrast
to the energy price cap, which was introduced for exactly the
same reason, but has not held down the price of energy and has
larded hundreds of pounds of extra hedging costs on to every
household’s energy bills to boot. Since the Treasury is spending
vast amounts of taxpayers’ cash on energy subsidies at the
moment, will my right hon. Friend speak to the Secretary of State
for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy about replacing the
failed energy cap with a version of the FCA’s much cheaper and
more effective approach as soon as energy prices return to
normal?
I am very happy to look at that question further. The Government
previously considered, but rejected, asking Ofgem to implement a
relative rather than an absolute price cap in energy markets,
which would have similarly prevented energy suppliers from
charging those large differentials, because it was judged that it
was more likely to distort competition in the fixed-term tariff
market. As ever, I am happy to continue the conversation with my
hon. Friend and I know he will take the matter up further with
the regulator.
Mr Speaker
We now come to the SNP spokesperson.
(Dundee East) (SNP)
Subsequent to the changes to the insurance market to protect
people from the loyalty payment, the Chancellor announced his
Edinburgh reforms to wider financial services regulation and a
great many consultations. At a quick glance, many of them closed
very quickly—on 5 February, 17 February, 3 March, 5 March and 17
March. Given that the Treasury Select Committee warned over a
decade ago that the Government
“needs to take the time required to get its reform of financial
regulation right”,
how can we be convinced that the rather painful lessons of the
financial crash have not been forgotten?
For four and a half years, I was the Economic Secretary to the
Treasury, and many of those reforms were baked up over a lot of
consultation with industry over many months. The Edinburgh
reforms represent an incremental advance on those reforms and
have high prudential regulatory standards very much at their
core.
I will come to that, because the Minister is absolutely right. I
did quote from a 2010 report. But in June this year, the Treasury
Committee, in its report on the future of financial services
regulation, warned:
“Weakening standards could reduce the financial resilience of the
UK’s financial system and undermine international confidence in
that system and the firms within it.”
Given the intention to review capital requirements, and the new
remit letters and secondary objectives for the Prudential
Regulation Authority and the FCA, how will the Chancellor and the
Minister ensure the regulatory focus on stability is maintained?
I gave evidence to that inquiry and I heartily agree with its
conclusions. Stability is at the core of the regulators’
objectives, but so is the need to look at the competitive
landscape across the globe and ensure that the UK, with the city
of London as a global hub for financial services, evolves and
remains competitive, taking account of the risks but also
developing frameworks in line with expectations, so that we can
remain that world-leading global hub.
Poverty Levels in Scotland
(Glenrothes) (SNP)
5. What recent assessment he has made of the potential impact of
his policies on levels of poverty in Scotland.
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury ()
The Chancellor published the “Impact on households” document
alongside the autumn statement 2022, containing analysis of how
policy announcements affect household incomes. The results show
that the autumn statement decisions on tax, welfare and changes
to the energy price guarantee in 2023-24 benefit low-income
households across the UK, including Scottish households, the
most. The autumn statement announced further support targeted at
8 million of the most vulnerable households across the UK, who
will benefit from additional cost of living payments in 2023-24.
The Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that, by October this year,
one in five households in Scotland had already had to go without
food or without heat because they could not afford both—and that
was before the recent severe cold snap. The JRF also described
the Scottish child payment, introduced by an SNP Government, as
“a watershed moment in tackling poverty”.
Does the Minister have any plans to speak to the Scottish
Government to find out how the Scottish child payment works so it
can be introduced here? Who knows—they might give him some tips
on how to avoid a nurse’s strike at the same time.
I am, as ever, grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his advice. Of
course, we engage closely with the Scottish Government. The
latest official statistics from the Department for Work and
Pensions, based on data up to 2019-20, show that, compared with
2009-10, there were 55,000 fewer people in absolute poverty after
housing costs in Scotland. But I think the key point is that we
are supporting everyone in every single part of the UK with their
energy bills this winter. It is a challenging time, but our
extraordinary help is making a real difference.
Levelling Up Communities: Fiscal Steps
(Dewsbury) (Con)
6. What fiscal steps his Department is taking to level up
communities.
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury ()
The Treasury is making significant investments to level up
communities across the UK—101 towns, including Dewsbury, will
benefit from more than £3.2 billion from the towns fund,
supporting long-term economic and social regeneration. Of course,
communities will also benefit from the £4.8 billion levelling-up
fund, the £2.6 billion shared prosperity fund and the £250
million community ownership fund.
The decision on the £47 million Penistone line levelling-up fund
bid is due to be announced shortly. Can my right hon. Friend
assure me that this important round 2 category 1 bid will be
subject to the same financial considerations and eligibility as
bids submitted in round 1?
I can absolutely reassure my hon. Friend that all round 2 bids
are undergoing a robust and thorough assessment through that
decision-making process. That is consistent with the approach
taken in round 1. Of course, the individual decisions will be
made in due course in the very near future.
(Newcastle upon Tyne
North) (Lab)
One way the Government could level up low-income families with
young children is through healthy start vouchers. This year, I
have tabled four written questions asking what the take-up rate
of that scheme has been since digitisation in April, but the
Government have been unable to give me an answer, despite the
fact that we are eight months on and in the middle of a cost of
living crisis. How do the Government know what the take-up rate
of the scheme is and whether it is working in balancing out
inequalities?
I obviously cannot answer that specifically, but I can say that
the Government have, over recent weeks, shown the commitment to
helping the most vulnerable across the United Kingdom. But I take
the hon. Lady’s question seriously, and I am very happy to look
into that and to work with colleagues across Government to find
an answer.
(Torbay) (Con)
As the Minister will know, fiscal steps in investment zones can
help to boost and level up communities—I am thinking in
particular of Paignton in South Devon, where South Devon College
and the photonics industry exist side by side. Will he meet me to
discuss how that initiative could help to support growth in
Paignton?
I am very happy to meet my hon. Friend, who is, as ever, fighting
strongly for his constituents. As he knows, the investment zones
are designed to be a meaningful mechanism to catalyse growth,
sometimes, although not exclusively, through university, looking
at where we can find clusters across the United Kingdom to drive
the economy forward.
Dame (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
Clearly, we need to level up on housing. In my constituency, many
people just cannot afford a private rented home or to own their
own home, and we need more social housing, but that is not
possible without Government subsidy. What is the Treasury
considering to make sure that people who desperately need a
permanent roof over their head can get it?
We are working very closely with the Department for Levelling Up,
Housing and Communities to look at specific interventions. We
have just released an extra amount of capital money to work
alongside the Ukraine support scheme. But I totally recognise
that this is a critical issue, and we will make further
announcements about it in due course at the next fiscal event.
(Colne Valley) (Con)
I fully support my hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury () in his levelling-up bid for
the Penistone line, as it goes through my constituency, with
stations in Brockholes and Honley. I also have my own
levelling-up bid to regenerate a disused mill in Marsden for
commercial space. These bids are good not only for connectivity
and regeneration, but for the economy, because they create jobs
and growth. Does the Minister agree that this allocation of
funding therefore makes sense?
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend—perhaps unsurprisingly.
The Government have developed a bespoke and objective index of
priority places. We are very keen for this investment to work
effectively, wherever it is. I very much respect the
representations he has made this morning for the bid in his own
constituency.
(Glasgow East) (SNP)
An important part of levelling-up communities is to invest in the
community transport network. Last week, I visited
Shettleston-based Community Transport Glasgow alongside
Councillor Laura Doherty. They were telling me that they were
having real difficulty attracting volunteers because of HMRC
rules around mileage rates. Is that something that the Government
are willing to look at? Will the Minister be willing to meet me
and Community Transport Glasgow to discuss that issue?
We keep these matters under review, but I am sure my colleague
the Financial Secretary, who takes a close interest in these
matters, will follow up in the appropriate way.
Public Spending: Value for Money
(Washington and Sunderland
West) (Lab)
7. What steps his Department is taking to help ensure value for
money in public spending.
(North Tyneside) (Lab)
10. What steps his Department is taking to help ensure value for
money in public spending.
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury ()
Value for money is a central priority for the Government and at
the heart of every decision we take. The Government take our
responsibility for managing the public purse seriously. The
Government recently launched the efficiency and savings review,
and that will help to keep spending focused on the Government’s
priorities and manage pressures from higher inflation. It will
include renewing our efforts to drive efficiency, tackle waste
and re-prioritise spending away from lower value and lower
priority programmes.
Mrs Hodgson
I hear what the Minister has just said, but he will be as aware
as I am that, in the 2020-21 annual report from the Department of
Health and Social Care, the Government wrote off a total of £8.7
billion-worth of the personal protective equipment they had
acquired in the first year of the pandemic. When families are
facing a choice between heating and eating this Christmas, does
the Minister understand the real public anger that people are
facing these difficulties at this time, when the Government are
having such rampant waste of public money?
I acknowledge that figure in that report, but it refers to the
write-down that was necessary following a situation where we
acquired a lot of PPE at a time of acute demand and shortage of
supply. It was an adjustment for that. Of course, 97% of all PPE
was suitable for use in healthcare and non-healthcare settings.
While I take the general point that the hon. Lady is making about
concern for the most vulnerable in communities, which has been
addressed by the £37 billion of support we have put in this year,
those are the facts around the figure that she raises.
Figures suggest that at least £3 billion has been spent on agency
staff in the civil service over the past three years, plugging
the gaps in our public sector at a huge premium to employment
agencies. With Public and Commercial Services Union members in
the civil service now out on strike for fair pay and terms and
conditions, and thousands of contingency staff already drafted in
to break the strikes, can the Minister say how much this dispute
is costing the taxpayer? Does he agree that it is a false economy
not to give these dedicated public servants a decent cost of
living pay rise?
Strikes are obviously very regrettable, and we as Ministers work
closely with civil servants day in, day out, and we very much
value the contribution they make to government. I will be looking
carefully with Secretaries of State in the coming weeks at
efficiencies across government and how we can get the economy,
the country and public finances in the best possible place as we
move forward through the pay review round next year.
(Christchurch) (Con)
Are the Government not just paying lip service to the need to get
improved productivity in public services? For example, the NHS
produced an internal report in April on its efficiency, or lack
of productivity. I requested that that report be made available
in the Library more than one month ago, and I have not even had a
reply to the question. Why are the Government not more open with
Members about the need for productivity improvements?
I can be very open with my hon. Friend today. We are absolutely
committed to driving forward productivity across the economy and
in the public sector. I will look into the specific question he
has not had answered. That will involve conversations with the
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, as well as across
the Cabinet.
Mr Speaker
I just remind everybody that Members’ letters must be answered
when they put requests in, please. We now come to the shadow
Minister.
Mr (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
I echo the good wishes to you, Mr Speaker, to the Minister and to
the whole House for a very happy Christmas.
Last year, the then Prime Minister and the then Chancellor, who
is now the Prime Minister, announced a star chamber to crack down
on waste and fraud in public expenditure. How often has the star
chamber met, and how much of the £6.7 billion estimated to have
been lost to covid fraud and error has been recovered?
As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we have instituted a range of
interventions, investing in His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs
fraud prevention measures to embed those in business as usual. I
have been in post for the past eight weeks, and I will be having
a series of meetings in January.
Mr McFadden
The Minister could not tell us whether the star chamber has met
at all.
On top of all the examples that have been cited today, the rescue
of the energy company Bulb is estimated by the Office for Budget
Responsibility to be costing another £6.5 billion, partly as a
result of our hedge fund Prime Minister’s failure to hedge
against rising energy prices. Why do the Government not show more
respect for public money and chase down every penny of these
losses before putting up taxes for 30 million people at a time
when the public already face the biggest cost of living crisis
for generations?
I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about the imperative of
chasing down all waste. The Government are providing continued
funding for the Bulb Energy special administration regime while
the sale of Bulb’s customers to Octopus is pursued by the energy
administrator as an exit route from the SAR, but I will look at
what the right hon. Gentleman said and reflect carefully on what
we can do further.
Inflation: Student Maintenance Loan Increases
(Birmingham, Selly Oak)
(Lab)
8. Whether he has had recent discussions with the Secretary of
State for Education on the potential merits of increasing student
maintenance loans in line with actual rather than forecast levels
of inflation.
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury ()
Treasury Ministers meet regularly with Ministers at the
Department for Education to discuss matters of shared interest,
including student finance. The Government are considering options
for changes to loans and grants for 2023-24, and an announcement
will follow in due course.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies reports that the real value of
maintenance loans is the lowest for seven years. Rents, which
account for 45% of bills, are rising; food costs are rising; one
in 10 students are using a food bank; and 80% say they cannot
make ends meet. Why does the Minister not make his Christmas
present a proper increase in the level of maintenance loans?
Because it is a loan, he would not even have to pay for it.
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I have a lot of
respect for him and I recognise the issue that he refers to. Of
course, many higher education providers have hardship funds that
students can apply to, and there is £261 million—a quarter of a
billion pounds—of student premium funding available this year to
support disadvantaged students. On the specific issue of the
uprating, of course there needs to be a delay to operationalise
those additional sums. That is at the core of the issue. However,
as I said, the Department for Education will report on the matter
in due course.
Tax System: Fairness
(Ealing, Southall)
(Lab)
9. What recent steps he has taken to ensure fairness in the
application of the tax system.
The Financial Secretary to the Treasury ()
Merry Christmas to you, Mr Speaker, to all the House staff, to
the Members in the Chamber, and to our parliamentary staff, who
do such a good job for us all year round—[Interruption.] And to
the Doorkeepers—thank you very much.
It is right that everyone contributes to sustainable public
finances in a fair way. The autumn statement tax reforms mean
that those with the broadest shoulders contribute the most. We
are also implementing the OECD pillar two reforms so that
multinational corporations pay their fair share of tax, and we
are introducing measures to address tax avoidance and evasion to
ensure that people pay the right amount at the right time.
Mr Sharma
Does the Minister think it is fair that landlords and those on
high incomes earned through trading stocks and shares pay less
tax than those paid a salary?
I do hope that the hon. Gentleman noted the announcements by my
right hon. Friend the Chancellor in the autumn statement in
relation to dividends and corporation tax allowances. We want to
ensure, where we can, that unearned income is roughly comparable
to earned income. That is precisely why the principle running
through the autumn statement was that those with the broadest
shoulders should bear the greatest burden.
(Havant) (Con)
I welcome the Edinburgh reforms, which help to make our financial
services sector more competitive. I urge my hon. Friend to adopt
the same approach to R&D tax reliefs and capital allowances,
so that our world-class entrepreneurs, start-ups and small and
medium-sized enterprises can benefit from the same advantages.
We all have campaigns to which we devote a great deal of time and
for which we build a reputation. My hon. Friend has had a
reputation for campaigning on and highlighting the fourth
industrial revolution since he was elected in 2015, so I am not
surprised that he asked that question. I am delighted to say that
we very much support innovation and the critical work of our
entrepreneurs, start-ups and SMEs, which is why we are setting
the annual investment allowance permanently at £1 million from 1
April, and reviewing the research and development tax reliefs to
ensure that, while we are rebalancing the rates of relief out of
fairness to the taxpayer, we are also targeting that relief at
the knowledge-intensive and innovation-intensive businesses that
we all care so much about.
(Denton and Reddish)
(Lab)
For a bit of Christmas cheer, I agree with the Minister for once
as she says that she wants those with the broadest shoulders to
pay the most in the tax system. Why, then, did the Chancellor
pick the pockets of hard-working people in the autumn statement
through stealth taxes, such as freezing tax allowances, rather
than tackling non-doms, which could have brought in £3.2 billion
to the Exchequer?
I feel a little slighted, because the hon. Gentleman and I agree
on an awful lot behind the scenes—I wish him a very merry
Christmas. On non-doms, we know that they paid £7.9 billion in UK
taxes last year, which is a significant sum of money. The
Chancellor has been clear that when we look at those rules, we
have to bear in mind that they pay a significant sum of money in
their UK taxes that obviously contributes towards the public
services that we all care so much about.
(Redditch) (Con)
The success of our fantastic town deal in Redditch, which is
thanks to record-breaking investment from the Government, relies
on our amazing SMEs, who tell me that they need to compete
against the online giants. What more can the Minister do to
ensure that our businesses play a full part in our vision for the
future, so that we can continue to unlock Redditch?
My hon. Friend has done so much for her constituency through her
campaigns, including by securing the investment that her local
hospital needs. In relation to her high streets and small
businesses, she is right that we are the Government of small
business. That is why, although we had to make some difficult
decisions in the autumn statement, we were determined to protect
our precious high streets and small businesses, particularly in
the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors, through the business
rates support package, which totalled £13.6 billion.
Mr Speaker
We come to the shadow Minister.
(Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op)
I echo the consensus about the importance of a merry Christmas.
In the last month, I have asked Treasury Ministers three simple
questions: whether the Chancellor has considered abolishing
non-dom status; whether the Prime Minister was consulted about
doing so; and whether, when the current Prime Minister was
Chancellor, he recused himself from discussions on the matter. I
have asked those questions four separate times, but four times
Treasury Ministers have refused to answer or even acknowledge
them. Once might be an oversight and twice might be careless, but
three times seems deliberate and four times feels like
stonewalling. Will the Minister finally show that they have
nothing to hide by answering my questions today?
I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman is entering into the spirit
of pantomime season with his questions. We have been clear that
non-doms paid £7.9 billion in UK taxes last year—a number that he
does not seem able to accept—which is a significant sum of money.
Although we keep the scheme under review, as I have said many
times—perhaps he is choosing not to hear it—we must recognise
their contribution in UK taxes, because that £7.9 billion helps
to pay for the services that we all care so much about.
Well, that was the fifth time; I wonder what people will make of
that.
We believe that to be trusted and effective, the tax system must
be fair, yet while millions of working people and businesses
across Britain are paying the highest tax burden in decades,
those who use tax havens are playing by different rules. Those
who benefit from tax havens are undercutting responsible
businesses, undermining our public services and breaking the
basic principle that we must all play by the same rules. Will the
Minister agree that creating a fair tax system must involve
challenging tax havens and those who avoid paying their fair
share?
I ought to declare an interest at this point: I used to prosecute
tax fraudsters for HMRC before I came to this place. I very much
agree with the hon. Gentleman and put my money where my mouth is
when it comes to tackling those fraudsters.
On the income tax take, the top 10% by way of income paid 36% of
all tax in 2020-21. We are proud of the fact that our
distributional analysis for the autumn statement shows that
decisions made at that fiscal event are progressive: the lowest
income households will receive the largest benefit in cash terms
and as a percentage of income, and will on average be net
beneficiaries of decisions made on tax, welfare and amendments to
the energy price guarantee.
Energy Costs: Fiscal Support
(Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)
(Alba)
11. Whether his Department plans to take further fiscal steps to
support (a) households, (b) local authorities, (c) charities and
(d) businesses with energy costs.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer ()
Merry Christmas to you and your staff, Mr Speaker; as your fourth
Chancellor of the year, I sincerely hope that I am here this time
next year to wish you merry Christmas as well.
The Government are very conscious that these are tough times for
businesses as well as families. That is why in the autumn
statement I announced, among many other measures, a package of
business rates support worth £13.6 billion over the next five
years, including a 75% relief for retail, hospitality and leisure
properties. That will help thousands of businesses in Scotland.
A very merry Christmas to you and yours, Mr Speaker, and a happy
new year to boot.
My constituency of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath plays host to energy
giants Shell and ExxonMobil; Seagreen and Berwick Bank wind
farms, which supply 2.8 million homes in England with energy, are
just off our coastline. In such a land of energy plenty, it is
perverse that so many people live in poverty and that businesses
struggle to survive. Kirkcaldy ice arena is the oldest rink in
the United Kingdom and home to the Fife Flyers ice hockey team.
It survived world war two, fire, the financial crash and covid,
but in energy-rich Scotland it is struggling to pay its
unavoidable energy costs. What targeted support is the Chancellor
going to make available for energy-dependent companies such as
the rink? Will he meet me to discuss how best to tackle the
problem?
We have announced a package of support for businesses this winter
worth nearly £20 billion; it will help businesses throughout the
United Kingdom, including in Scotland. It includes special
measures for energy-intensive industries. We will shortly
announce plans that will take effect from next April.
Cost of Living: Fiscal Steps
(Newport East) (Lab)
12. What fiscal steps his Department is taking to help tackle
increases in the cost of living.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer ()
Because of these unprecedented and difficult times, the
Government have chosen to make more than £100 billion of
additional support available to families this winter and next
winter, on top of increasing the national living wage by a record
9.7% and uprating benefits by inflation.
Businesses do not know what Government help, if any, will be
available for energy bill support from April next year. They
include nursing homes, supported housing schemes and older
people’s schemes, which have been able to pass on lower costs to
vulnerable residents. Without help, costs will significantly
increase for those vulnerable people and affect the long-term
viability of care and support services. What are the Government
doing to address the issue?
I am very grateful that the hon. Lady asked that question. She is
absolutely right; a number of businesses, charities and
organisations such as care homes are extremely vulnerable because
of the big increase in energy prices. All I would say is that she
should look at what the Government have done this winter. With
around £18 billion of support, we have demonstrated that we are
aware of those concerns. Early in the new year, we will bring
forward an appropriate package on what will happen from next
April.
Energy Costs: Fiscal Support
(Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)
(Lab)
13. What fiscal steps he is taking to support people with their
energy costs.
(Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)
14. What fiscal steps he is taking to support people with their
energy costs.
(Warrington South) (Con)
17. What recent fiscal steps his Department has taken to support
families with the cost of energy bills.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer ()
We have reaffirmed our commitment to help hard-pressed families
this winter with support for energy bills. We have introduced a
range of measures to help those families, including capping
energy bills at £3,000 this year and £2,500 next year.
The End Fuel Poverty Coalition has called for an immediate ban on
the installation of prepayment meters made under court warrants,
because of fears that energy suppliers are using them to
disconnect the poorest and most indebted customers by the back
door, and it claims that transferring households to prepayment
meters often prompts people in debt to self-disconnect. Citizens
Advice said that an extra 450,000 people could be switched to
prepayment meters by the end of the year because of debt, and a
record number of people could not afford to top-up their
prepayment meters—the eighth time that record has been broken in
the past nine months. This is a crisis made in Downing Street,
and it is having a grave impact on a growing number of the most
vulnerable households in my constituency and across the country.
What will the Chancellor do to support people in that grave
situation?
I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that issue. There are 4.1
million people across the country on prepayment meters, and the
Ofgem energy price cap covers all prepayment meter customers and
ensures that they pay a fair price for their energy. Licence
conditions require energy suppliers to provide extra support for
those customers because, as the hon. Gentleman said, we recognise
how vulnerable they are. We will continue to monitor the
situation over the months ahead, because we are aware of the
extreme vulnerabilities of that group.
A great number of my constituents who live in park home sites
such as Willowgrove park in Knott End-on-Sea or Smithy Park in
Winmarleigh, as well as boat dwellers on the Galgate marina, are
concerned about their energy bills but seem to have been
forgotten about by the Government. When is the £400 payment of
support likely to be made to people in park homes and on boats,
and what support will be available from April onwards?
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for asking that question because I
have a number of park home residents in my constituency. The
answer is that they can apply online for that support from
January.
I have heard from many voluntary groups in Warrington South,
including organisations, such as the Scouts and Guides, that
provide important extra-curricular activities for young people’s
development, especially after the impact of the pandemic on their
education and wellbeing. What steps are the Government taking to
support charity and voluntary organisations, many of which have
seen their energy costs increase by five times over the past
year?
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for standing up for businesses
and charities in Warrington, as he always does so ably. As he
knows, this winter the energy business relief scheme is providing
£18 billion of support for businesses and charities, and early in
the new year we will announce how that support will continue
after April. I reassure my hon. Friend that we are particularly
concerned about the impact on charities, which see their costs go
up but without a corresponding ability to increase their income.
Mr Speaker
I call the Chair of the Treasury Committee.
(West Worcestershire)
(Con)
I wish you, Mr Speaker, your team and the Treasury team a merry
Christmas. Has the Chancellor had a chance to read the Treasury
Committee’s report, published last week, about the welcome that
we give to the cost of living support that he has announced for
next winter? Did he also note our points about the potential
cliff edges in that £900 support, and the recommendations we made
to spread those payments more evenly over the course of next
winter?
I wish my hon. Friend and all members of the Treasury Committee a
merry Christmas. I have read a summary of their report, but I
have saved the entire document for my Christmas reading, and I am
immensely looking forward to that. The most important thing is
that we are offering extra support for people who are
vulnerable—support that amounts to £13 billion next year—and that
comes before the support with people’s energy bills and a lot of
other measures. My hon. Friend makes a very important point about
cliff edges, which we will reflect on carefully.
Education Sector Funding
(Ipswich) (Con)
15. What steps he is taking to increase funding for the education
sector.
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury ()
At spending review 2021, the Department for Education was
allocated a total of £87 billion, providing a cash increase to
our education system of about £18 billion by 2024-25. Young
people and adults benefited from the biggest long-term settlement
for post-16 education in England since 2015. Of course, at the
recent autumn statement, an additional cash increase of £2
billion was provided for both 2023-24 and 2024-25.
There have been significant improvements in special educational
needs and disabilities provision in Ipswich in the last few
years. Just last week, the Under-Secretary of State for
Education, my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (), was at the Sir Bobby
Robson School, which has 66 new places. Suffolk has had 1,000 new
SEND places since 2019, and all of that is because of the
investment that my right hon. Friend just mentioned. However, it
is ever so slightly frustrating that Suffolk is still unfairly
funded compared with other areas, including not just London but
Norfolk, where a SEND pupil will get £99 more per head than those
in Suffolk. I want young people with SEND in Norfolk to have
every chance, but there is no reason why young and vulnerable
people in Suffolk and Ipswich should get any less funding and
investment. Will he commit to reviewing the bizarre quirk that
means that Suffolk SEND kids get less than kids elsewhere?
My hon. Friend is somewhat of an expert in the subject. I agree
that it is critical that we get it right. Decisions on the
distribution of high-needs funding are a matter for the
Department for Education, but I reassure him that, as a result of
the additional funding announced at the autumn statement,
Suffolk’s high-needs funding is increasing by 11% per pupil in
2023-24 compared with this year. The Under-Secretary of State for
Education, my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (), who has responsibility
for children, families and wellbeing, will be happy to meet my
hon. Friend to describe and discuss the different mechanisms of
allocation and, indeed, how the high-needs formula works across
different local authorities.
(East Kilbride, Strathaven
and Lesmahagow) (SNP)
A merry Christmas to everybody when it comes. What steps is the
Minister taking to review further education funding for people
with disabilities? It is very important that people have equal
opportunities across the United Kingdom and that our education
system has inclusion at its core.
I completely agree with the hon. Lady, and I am working with
colleagues in different Departments looking at the challenges to
help people back into the workplace. It is particularly difficult
when people need support for such a range of needs and
conditions. We must treat everyone as an individual and be ever
more creative in the solutions that we bring forward. I look
forward to working with her and colleagues in Government to try
to assist in improving the situation.
Topical Questions
(Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)
(Alba)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental
responsibilities.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer ()
My Christmas wish for the economy is that 2023 is the year when
we bring down inflation, and that means staying the course
outlined in the autumn statement and giving people as much help
as we can with the cost of living crisis. I am pleased that,
yesterday, my hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury
was able to announce that we are freezing alcohol duty for a
further six months.
This morning, I met nurses on the picket lines outside St
Thomas’s Hospital. They do not want to be there, the unions do
not want them to be there and the public do not want them to be
there, but we understand why they are: it is because of the
Government’s inflexibility over pay. The Government have deep
pockets for bankers and their bonuses, dodgy personal protective
equipment and fly-by-night Prime Ministers who blow up the
economy. I took the Chancellor at his word when I was with him on
the Health and Social Care Committee. Now that he holds the purse
strings, will he enter into discussion with the unions and unlock
this untenable situation?
I enjoyed working with the hon. Gentleman on the Select
Committee. One thing that we both said needed to happen was to
have an independently reviewed workforce plan for the NHS, so he
will be pleased that I was able to announce that in the autumn
statement.
(Carshalton and Wallington)
(Con)
T3. I welcome the steps that the Treasury has taken to
support Carshalton and Wallington residents with the cost of
living. What steps is the Department taking to signpost people to
the help and support that is available?
The Financial Secretary to the Treasury ()
The Government have announced cost of living support worth £26
billion in 2023-24. More than 8 million of the most vulnerable
households across the UK will continue to be supported through to
next winter via additional cost of living payments. In my hon.
Friend’s constituency, that equates to 11,600 households who will
be eligible for £650 of extra support this year through the
means-tested benefits cost of living payment. I urge all
colleagues across the House to look at the help for households
website—helpforhouseholds.campaign.gov.uk —which can signpost
people to the various funds and ways in which they can get
support.
Mr Speaker
I call shadow Minister, .
Mr (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
The end of the year is a moment for reflection, so let us look at
the Government’s report card: a Tory mini-Budget that crashed the
economy, waiting lists and times at record highs, trains delayed
and cancelled all over the place, billions wasted on dodgy
contracts, and a reshuffle policy that means everyone in the
Conservative party gets to be famous for 15 minutes. Why is it
that when nothing is working under the Tories, even at this time
of seasonal gift giving, they still insist on making everyone
else pay the price for their Government’s failures?
First of all, may I wish the shadow Chancellor, the right hon.
Member for Leeds West (), a merry Christmas in her
absence and a speedy recovery from the lurgy that I gather she
has? I look back on the last 12 years of this Conservative
Government with a great deal of pride. What the right hon.
Gentleman never likes to mention in his comparisons is that
Labour had a golden economic inheritance from the Conservatives
in 1997 and left us with an economy that had run out of money.
What have we done? We are the third highest-growing economy in
the G7.
Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)
T4. Before I came into this House I was a chartered accountant.
The VAT threshold rate has remained at £85,000 for the last six
years, including at the moment when inflation is at nearly 10%.
Many of my constituency businesses are smaller trader entities in
the leisure, tourism and hospitality sectors, and they are really
struggling. What assessment has the Chancellor made of increasing
the VAT threshold, and, if he will not look at that, of lowering
VAT rates on the sectors I mentioned?
I welcome my hon. Friend’s strong support for his local economy
and the small businesses that play such a vital part in his
constituency. The VAT registration threshold, at £85,000,
is more than twice as high as the EU and OECD averages, which
keeps 3.2 million small businesses out of VAT—the majority of
businesses in this country. I hope my hon. Friend will welcome
the fact that since the start of the pandemic more than £35
billion has been provided to the tourism, leisure and hospitality
sectors in grants, loans and tax breaks. As a Government, we
recognise their incredible value and how important they are to
the wellbeing of our constituencies.
Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)
T2. Further to my previous question on best value in the public
sector, can the Minister confirm how much money the civil service
strike is costing the taxpayer and whether any cost-benefit
analysis has been carried out on the merits of giving civil
servants a decent pay rise?
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury ()
The cost of strikes is always regrettable. It is regrettable to
those who rely on the services that those individuals deliver.
Dame (Basingstoke) (Con)
T6. Hampshire Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust is waiting for
Treasury allocations to be made that would allow the start of a
public consultation on our new hospital in Basingstoke, funded by
the Government’s flagship hospital infrastructure plan. Can my
right hon. Friend confirm when Basingstoke might be getting news
on those allocations—perhaps even an early Christmas present?
I am sorry that I cannot give an early Christmas present.
Allocations from that funding are the responsibility of the
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. I encourage my
right hon. Friend to speak to the Health Secretary, who is
working hard with the Treasury and other parts of Government to
look at capital projects across the whole of health.
Announcements will be made in due course, early in the new year,
I hope.
(Lewisham, Deptford)
(Lab)
T5. Changes to the eligibility criteria for the warm home
discount mean that those in receipt of disability living
allowance, personal independence payment and attendance allowance
can no longer claim it. I am sure the Minister will tell me that
disabled people are being compensated via the two disability cost
of living payments, but new research by YouGov has found that
millions of disabled people are spending this winter living in
cold and damp homes. What is he doing to ensure that no disabled
person has to choose between eating and heating?
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury ()
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that important point. Yes, I
would draw attention to the cost of living support for those on
disability benefits, which is extremely important, together with
the energy price guarantee. On the specific point about the warm
home discount, I am happy to look into that and write to the hon.
Lady, but I remind her that in the autumn statement the
Chancellor made a very significant commitment to energy
efficiency which will apply to the whole country: the 15% target
and £6 billion more funding for energy efficiency.
(Lichfield) (Con)
Inflation is high in the UK, but I understand that it is lower
than the EU average. Why do we not do what they do in France? All
the funding that goes into supporting people with the cost of
energy is given to the utility companies so the bills are lower,
thus reducing inflation.
Few colleagues put a question about inflation more eloquently
than my hon. Friend. He makes an interesting suggestion. The
support we have put in place has come through a variety of
mechanisms, such as direct support for our constituents to help
with cost of living and the energy price guarantee. He asks about
how we ensure that that reduces inflation; the key point is that
the OBR has confirmed that because of the energy price guarantee,
the peak of inflation will be 2.5% lower than it would have been.
That shows that our support is not only making a difference to
our constituents this winter but is reducing the underlying cause
of inflation, and that is in the best interest of the whole of
the United Kingdom.
(Ealing Central and Acton)
(Ind)
I am sure that like me, Mr Speaker, you long for the days of cool
Britannia under a Labour Government. Touring musicians and
performers are now hamstrung with restrictions and red tape
because of the Government’s botched Brexit deal. We need a
Christmas miracle, don’t we? When will the Government accept that
this as a problem, and what are they doing about it?
I hope that, in the spirit of Christmas cheer, the hon. Lady will
accept that the trade and co-operation agreement is the world’s
biggest zero-tariff, zero-quota trade deal. It provides a strong
base for UK businesses to trade with the EU. We continue to
support businesses trading with the EU, as well as helping them
seize new opportunities with fast-growing economies around the
world through our free trade agreements.
(North East Bedfordshire)
(Con)
The Chancellor was absolutely right in Edinburgh to include
environmental, social and governance ratings agencies within the
regulatory perimeter. But will he ensure that in the guidance,
ESG objectives are consistent with the long-term actuarial goals
of pension funds, to ensure that money is available in 20 or 30
years’ time, when people wish to retire?
My hon. Friend is an expert in this area. He is absolutely right
to point to that concern. We must ensure joined-up regulatory
innovation to make sure there are no unforeseen circumstances. He
puts his finger on a very important point.
(York Central)
(Lab/Co-op)
I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial
Interests. The Chancellor knows that a workforce plan cannot work
if the Government cannot retain staff in the NHS. We cannot
retain staff in the NHS if we do not pay them—that is why they
are out on strike today. Will the Chancellor, instead of hiding
behind the pay review body, admit that the Government set the
remit for the pay review body? The only way to end this dispute
is for Government to sit down with the trade unions and
negotiate.
The hon. Lady is right about the importance of retention. That is
why we are pleased to have 32,000 more nursing staff than at the
start of the Parliament, which takes us some way towards our
50,000 additional nursing staff target. When there is a cost of
living crisis, as we have at the moment, the best way to resolve
this is an independent process. It is an independent process;
when I was Health Secretary, it often made rulings that were not
comfortable. The best way to resolve the situation is to respect
that process.
(Gainsborough) (Con)
Pensioners are increasingly worried about the fact that, although
they have paid high—and now higher—taxes all their life, the
service they get from the NHS seems to get worse. Will my right
hon. Friend consider an idea put forward and implemented by his
great predecessor, Ken Clarke, to give tax relief on private
health insurance for pensioners? If we were to have a meeting,
could he invite his hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary, who
campaigned for this idea before higher office silenced him?
My right hon. Friend always asks important and challenging
questions. I do not agree with the way forward that he has
outlined, but Ken Clarke revolutionised our education system by
introducing Ofsted, which has led to a massive increase in
standards in our schools. That was the reason I introduced the
Ofsted system in our hospitals through the Care Quality
Commission, which is also seeing a big improvement in standards.
(North Antrim) (DUP)
God’s richest blessings to you in this Christmas season, Mr
Speaker.
My constituent, who owns a small business, paid VAT on goods that
they had ordered and brought back to Northern Ireland, only to
receive a second VAT bill from the Republic of Ireland because of
the Northern Ireland protocol. That makes doing business totally
unaffordable. A previous Prime Minister said that businesses
could tear these documents up. Can my constituent tear these
documents up?
For the majority of businesses trading in Northern Ireland, VAT
continues to be accounted for in much the same way as when they
trade in the rest of the UK. We are confident that the
implementation of the Northern Ireland protocol for VAT mitigates
the risk of double taxation in Northern Ireland. We know of one
example and HM Revenue and Customs is working with that business
to see what more can be done, but I am happy to take up the hon.
Gentleman’s question outside the Chamber.
(Rutland and Melton)
(Con)
Merry Christmas, Mr Speaker.
Rural poverty is devastating, but it is often hidden by the
relative affluence of surrounding rural areas. To ensure that
councils have the funding that they need to support those who are
living in rural poverty, will the Chancellor and his officials
meet me to discuss putting social mobility into funding formulas
alongside deprivation, to get councils what they need and to end
rural poverty?
I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend. Representing a
rural constituency myself, I totally understand the tension in
fully reflecting the needs of a sometimes diverse set of
communities. I am happy to meet her to discuss the matter
further.
(Barking) (Lab)
A happy Christmas to everybody.
The latest estimate that I have seen is that the Government’s
failure to clamp down on tax havens in our overseas territories
and Crown dependencies has cost us £65 billion—almost half what
we spend on the NHS, or a third of our education budget. Does the
Chancellor agree that our public finances would be in a far
better shape, our taxes would be far lower and our tax system
would be far fairer if we had cracked down on our tax havens?
We always need to be vigilant about tax evasion and work closely
with the overseas territories and Crown dependencies on those
matters. A lot of progress on registers has been made in recent
years, and more is due to be made. I will continue to reflect
carefully and work with the Economic Secretary on further
improvements to get things to where they need to be.
Sir (South Swindon) (Con)
Does the Chancellor agree that investor confidence in the United
Kingdom will be increased only if we bring forward the overdue
reforms to the law of corporate criminal liability? If so, will
he and the Treasury support further amendments to the Economic
Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill, including those that would
implement the Law Commission’s recommendations to create further
“failure to prevent” offences?
My right hon. and learned Friend is one of the people who knows
most about corporate criminal liability. I would be happy to take
his question away and discuss it with him, because it is critical
that the justice system addresses not just individuals who have
criminal liability, but companies; indeed, I have prosecuted many
companies across a range of offences. We understand that they can
commit crimes too, so I am very happy to take his question away.
(Weaver Vale) (Lab)
Will Treasury Ministers work with Transport Ministers to give
Avanti West Coast’s customers an early Christmas present by
removing the contract from it, putting it into public ownership
and saving the taxpayer an absolute fortune?
I recognise the significant concerns about the delivery of that
service. I am in ongoing conversations with the Secretary of
State for Transport to look at what more can be done.
(Don Valley) (Con)
The people of Doncaster will be eternally grateful for the help
that they received through the pandemic and for what they are
receiving through the cost of living crisis, but Doncaster still
needs a new hospital. Although money is tight, will the
Chancellor meet me with the Secretary of State for Health and
Social Care to see how we can achieve that goal in the new year?
I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend again to discuss the
matter in detail. As I mentioned in my reply to my right hon.
Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Dame ), the situation with the
capital programmes is under urgent review across the country. I
hope that further announcements will be made in the new year, but
I will certainly meet my hon. Friend anyway.
(Twickenham) (LD)
A few months ago, the Chancellor promised at the Dispatch Box
that he would make a further announcement about the energy bill
relief scheme before Christmas. Nothing has yet been forthcoming.
Small businesses, charities and schools in my constituency either
face going under or face huge deficits in the coming year. Will
he confirm when he will make a further announcement about support
for businesses, the public sector and charities, and whether this
House will have the opportunity to scrutinise it?
I can absolutely confirm that the House will not have to wait
very long for that announcement—and yes, it will have a chance to
scrutinise the announcement in detail.
(Gloucester) (Con)
As well as reassuring financial markets and bringing down
mortgage rates, the autumn statement did a great deal to help
consumers and businesses through winter energy prices. When my
right hon. Friend comes to announce what further help might be
available for businesses after March, will those in the Treasury
also highlight the opportunities for business from the increased
business rate discounts for the hospitality and leisure sectors
that will come in the spring?
We will certainly do that. I know that the 75% discount we
announced for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses will
make an enormous difference to businesses in Gloucester, as will
the £2.5 billion annual discount in business rates overall as we
make the transition to the new system.
(Brighton, Pavilion)
(Green)
A very Merry Christmas, Mr Speaker.
With oil and gas companies making grotesque profits from high
global prices, it is beyond belief that the Chancellor does not
scrap the so-called investment allowance announced in the autumn
statement, which means that companies are still able to claim
£91.40 in tax relief for every £100 invested in oil and gas
infrastructure. Will he now come clean about the cost to the
taxpayer of this perverse and utterly unjustified subsidy?
I am happy to confirm that that levy will raise £40 billion. As I
said earlier—and this is very important—the support that the hon.
Lady’s constituents, and indeed all our constituents, will
receive this winter has to be paid for somehow. A key purpose of
the levy is to help fund support for businesses and for our
constituents, with higher cost of living payments for the most
vulnerable and those on benefits. It is extremely generous, and,
as I have said, it is bringing down inflation for the whole
country.
(Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
Over the weekend, an anonymous Conservative MP admitted to a
newspaper:
“We’ve got no ideas and people feel abandoned.”
This was an
“economy that’s in recession with 10 per cent inflation”
and
“possibly one of the least successful governments in modern
Europe.”
My constituents are going into Christmas poorer as a consequence
of 12 years of Conservative government. Is the Chancellor proud
of that?
I am very proud of the fact that, having inherited an economy
that was bankrupted by the hon. Lady’s party, we have given it
one of the strongest growth rates in the developed world.
(Angus) (SNP)
I know that the Chancellor has invested in public health
personally, but may I urge him to invest, in a fiscal sense, in
beer and alcohol duty, and to create a differential between
off-sales and on-sales? On-sales are where jobs and tax and
employment are generated, and off-sales are where all the harmful
drinking comes from.
In my statement yesterday I not only confirmed a six-month
extension of the alcohol duty freeze, but announced that next
August we will introduce an ambitious reform package which will
include—this is happening for the first time ever, and is only
possible because of our departure from the European Union— a duty
rate differential between what is on tap, namely draught beer,
cider and so on, and what is in the supermarkets. That will
create a level playing field which I think is in the best
interests of our pubs.
(Glasgow Central)
(SNP)
Asylum seekers, who are at the very sharpest end of the cost of
living crisis, have seen only a 13p increase in asylum support
payments. Will the Chancellor uprate that? It should not fall to
brilliant charities like Refuweegee to ensure that asylum seekers
get a Christmas this year.
I think that communities up and down the country are doing
amazing work to support, in particular, the Ukrainian visitors
who came here this year at very short notice. We have just agreed
a new package of support with the Department for Levelling Up,
Housing and Communities, which gives guarantees going forward
into next year.
