Defence Jobs Mr Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con) 1.
What steps his Department is taking to support defence jobs in the
UK.(902707) Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con) 12. What steps his
Department is taking to support defence jobs in the UK.(902718) The
Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk) The most recent
estimate shows that Ministry of Defence investment supports 219,000
jobs in industries across the United Kingdom. Continued...Request free trial
Defence Jobs
Mr (South West Hertfordshire)
(Con)
1. What steps his Department is taking to support defence jobs in
the UK.(902707)
(Burnley) (Con)
12. What steps his Department is taking to support defence jobs
in the UK.(902718)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
The most recent estimate shows that Ministry of Defence
investment supports 219,000 jobs in industries across the United
Kingdom. Continued high and focused investment in defence, along
with the changes that we continue to make as part of our defence
and security industrial strategy, will contribute to further
economic growth and prosperity across the Union.
I thank the Minister for that answer. Ahead of Armistice Day last
month, I was contacted by Northwood military headquarters in my
constituency to help organise a tour of this place for the
submarine service. I thank Captain James Clark and Conservative
Friends of the Armed Forces for their help in making that happen.
Does the Minister agree that during this time of global
turbulence we should do all we can to support and champion the
members of our armed forces?
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I pay tribute to him for
taking the time to visit the Northwood military headquarters.
There are 1,600 active service personnel at Northwood HQ, and
their work is crucial to protecting our people, territories,
values and interests at home and overseas. He is right to pay
tribute to them, and I join him in that.
Thanks to this Secretary of State for Defence, Lancashire is home
to the newest part of the armed forces, the National Cyber Force.
That brings huge opportunities to our county, not only through
the thousands of armed forces personnel who will eventually be
stationed there, but with the cyber-security companies that we
hope will cluster around the site in the years ahead. To really
seize the opportunity, however, we need to ensure that we give
local people the skills they need to join the NCF or other
cyber-security businesses. Will the Minister meet me to discuss
what steps we can take to ensure that the MOD supports the growth
of its cyber-cluster, centred on the NCF, and the links between
the NCF and local education providers?
I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for the close
interest he has taken in the establishment of the National Cyber
Force in Samlesbury, which has cemented the north-west’s position
as a key UK cyber-cluster. He will be aware that last week we
announced the trilateral international partnership between the
UK, Japan and Italy to develop next-generation Tempest fighters,
which will also benefit the north-west. He is absolutely right
that, with regard to skills, we need to encourage the creation of
local partnerships between Government, industry and universities.
I am pleased to note that Lancaster University has announced a
£19 million investment in data and cyber-security research,
teaching and innovation. I would, of course, be delighted to meet
him.
(North Durham) (Lab)
The Defence Committee recently had before us representatives from
Boeing, which has been awarded some £6 billion-worth of contracts
in recent years. A representative confirmed that Boeing directly
employs only 1,600 people in the UK. Does the Minister not agree
that that is a pretty poor return on the investment and that it
certainly would not be the case in the United States?
I met Boeing recently, and we are always keen to see investment
in the UK. We are absolutely delighted that, because of the
pipeline of investment that the Government have commissioned—from
ships to cyber to space—we are investing in jobs and capability,
and we are ensuring that we take expertise from wherever it is in
the world, securing jobs in this country.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
(Wentworth and Dearne)
(Lab)
We welcome the Government’s commitment to job creation; the
problem is that they are creating jobs abroad, including in
Spain. The Defence Secretary has just picked a Spanish firm to
build the Royal Navy’s three new fleet support ships. At least
40% of that work will go abroad and the best that the Defence
Secretary could tell the Scottish Affairs Committee the other day
was that the contractor will
“fully assemble the final ship in a UK yard.”
As a result of the Defence Secretary’s decision, how many jobs
will be created in Spain and not in the UK?
Respectfully, I completely reject the tenor of that question. We
should be celebrating the fact that, as a result of the
commitment that we are making to UK shipbuilding, there will be
2,000 jobs in the UK and there will be shipbuilding industries in
Appledore and in Northern Ireland. That comes on top of the 1,700
jobs secured as a result of the Type 26, the 3,000 jobs as a
result of cyber investment and further jobs in respect of the
future combat air system. This Government are investing in
defence, in shipbuilding, in land, in sea and in air. We will
continue to do exactly that.
Well, the Minister told me in answer to a parliamentary question
that the
“number of jobs sustained in Spain…is a matter for the
contractor”.
We could have had 100% of the jobs in Britain. This is a dodgy
decision, whichever way we view it. On 21 November, I received
confirmation in a written answer that the prime contractor for
this £1.6 billion contract will be a company that was registered
only in May, with no trading history, with capital of just
£10,000 and with two directors, both living in Spain. What
guarantees can the Minister give the British taxpayer and the
Royal Navy that this contract will not betray British jobs and UK
industry?
What I genuinely do not understand is why the Opposition are not
welcoming a deal that is bringing more than £70 million into
Belfast, securing jobs in the shipbuilding industry in this
country and ensuring, by the way, that the base of industrial
support goes beyond the traditional Scottish yards to include
yards in Belfast and, indeed, in Appledore. That is good news. As
for the right hon. Gentleman’s point about other countries
playing a role, let us not forget that one of the great
successful procurements is the F-35. That is an American plane—of
course it is—but who produces 15% of the components? The United
Kingdom does. That is exactly what happens in these sorts of
contracts, and it gets value for money for taxpayers.
Mr Speaker
I call the SNP spokesperson.
(Angus) (SNP)
All credit to Babcock—maybe the Minister will join me in
congratulating it—for securing the Natural Environmental Research
Council’s £45 million fleet renewal programme. Of course, Babcock
and BAE should be gearing up to do 100% of the fleet solid
support ships in a distributed model across the UK, but they are
not, because this Tory Government have awarded a £1.6 billion
contract for three ships to Navantia in Spain. When Sir John
Parker, in his national shipbuilding
strategy—[Interruption]—maybe the Secretary of State could pipe
down a second. When Sir John Parker stressed that the Ministry of
Defence should embrace smart procurement, invest in yards and
apprenticeships, and commission ships with an eye to export, did
the Government realise that he was talking about yards in the UK,
not in Spain?
I listened very carefully to that question but, with respect, we
will not take lectures from an SNP Government who put a ship in
the water in 2017—a ferry that has now failed to be developed. We
are proud that we have got behind the Type 26, which is
benefiting the Scottish economy, and indeed the British economy,
with an additional 2,000 jobs as a result of the five vessels
that we have continued to commission. This Government are
investing in broad-based maritime capacity in this country, now
and in the future, and developing our capability here in
Britain.
We hear all the time about the strength of the Union for orders
into Scottish yards, but Scotland, still stuck in this necrotic
Union, loses out no matter what happens, when this Secretary of
State awards work to Cádiz that should have gone to the UK—it’s
heads, the UK wins; tails, Scotland loses. I wish Appledore in
Devon and Harland and Wolff in Belfast all the best, but without
the requisite workforce or skills, they are simply the Union flag
gift-wrapping that this Defence Secretary has given to the
Spanish shipbuilding industry. I ask the Government and the
increasingly ridiculously titled shipbuilding tsar: contrary to
his own claims, when the bulk of this work is delivered in Spain,
will this Secretary of State and his ministerial team resign?
It is very important that the House is not misled in any way. It
is not the case that the bulk will be built in Spain. Quite the
opposite: the majority will be built in the United Kingdom. All
the assembly and all the integration will happen here in the
United Kingdom. I hope the hon. Gentleman will celebrate the fact
that the Type 26, built in Scotland, secures 1,700 jobs and
includes the potential for exports. Govan, Rosyth, Scotstoun—all
those yards are being nurtured and supported by the power and
might of the UK Union. That means that Scotland’s place is better
in the Union, and the British Union is advantaged as well.
Africa: Tackling Violent Extremist Organisations
Sir (Rochford and Southend
East) (Con)
2. What steps his Department is taking to help tackle violent
extremist organisations in Africa.(902708)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
We are concerned by the growth of Daesh and the continued
presence of al-Shabaab and Boko Haram across Africa. We are
working closely with our partners across the continent, as well
as with our international allies, to ensure that we counter the
shared threats of violent extremism and terrorism. Obviously we
are supportive of the missions led by the United Nations and the
African Union, but we are also increasingly looking at how the UK
can support regional solutions for regional problems, and how the
UK works with friends such as Kenya, Ghana and Nigeria to support
their leadership in the Sahel, the Lake Chad basin, the eastern
Democratic Republic of the Congo and Somalia.
Sir
The Minister talks about recognised current terrorist
organisations, but what assessment has he made of the Wagner
Group in Africa, and would he recommend its proscription as a
terrorist organisation?
Wagner’s presence in Africa is obviously deeply unhelpful, and it
is cynical and opportunistic. It has no interest in the countries
in which it operates; it is simply there to extract the maximum
value for Russia, and potentially to cause as much chaos as it
can for those of us who are trying to help on the continent.
However, the Government do not routinely comment on whether an
organisation is being considered for proscription.
Defence Sector: Support for UK Companies
(Warley) (Lab)
3. What steps he is taking to support UK companies in the defence
sector.(902709)
(Ealing, Southall)
(Lab)
4. What steps he is taking to support UK companies in the defence
sector.(902710)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
The defence and security industrial strategy is helping to retain
onshore critical industries for our national security and our
future. The Ministry of Defence supports the development of a
more productive and competitive UK defence sector. With a
significant footprint across the UK and the procurement pipeline,
the MOD is well placed to contribute to economic growth and
levelling up.
May I take the Minister back to the subject of the fleet solid
support ships? I realise that he is new to the job, but he has
been ducking and diving during earlier exchanges. The prime
contractor, as Ministers have admitted, is Navantia. What
guarantees have they obtained that the boats will be built in the
United Kingdom—especially the first in class—and in respect of
the numbers of apprenticeships that would ensure capacity for the
future?
As is always the case, the precise details of the contract will
be set out in due course, but these facts are absolutely clear:
the award is of £1.6 billion to deliver three vessels, and this
will be a British ship built to a British design in a British
dockyard, mostly with British steel. I hoped that the right hon.
Gentleman would support this development, because it strengthens
British shipbuilding—and, by the way, it also means £70 million
for a British dockyard, which he should certainly support.
Mr Sharma
I welcome recent developments in the Tempest programme. Having
our own combat air industrial capabilities is incredibly
important, and ensures that we are not dependent on the
Americans, but what is the MOD doing to ensure that all the
enablers for modern combat are built here and bring real
industrial value to the UK?
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising such an important
point. He is absolutely right; this provides a capability that
will ensure that we stay one step ahead of our adversaries, and
it will be a collaboration. If ever there was a symbol of global
Britain, this is it: us working with the Japanese and the
Italians to produce something that is cutting-edge. If I may say
so, that is a message that I hope his colleagues will understand
as well. It is by working with other countries to share and
develop expertise that we can make all the free world that bit
freer and safer.
(Barrow and Furness) (Con)
I welcome Friday’s announcement about the UK, Italy and Japan
working closely together on the next generation of combat
aircraft. This, of course, sits alongside the partnership of the
UK, the United States and Australia—AUKUS—and shows that such
partnerships are important not only for our national security and
the security of the Indo-Pacific, but for UK companies and UK
jobs. Does my hon. and learned Friend agree?
My hon. Friend makes the point brilliantly. This is about
investing in capability to ensure that expertise remains in the
UK, and that we learn and collaborate in developing the next
generation of expertise, but there is also the potential to
export. Previous examples of our successful collaboration include
Typhoon, with more than 600 units sold overseas. If we get this
right—and there is every reason to think we will—there will be
such opportunities in the future as well.
(North West Leicestershire)
(Con)
Does the Minister agree that, contrary to the Opposition’s claim,
supporting UK companies in the defence sector not only makes good
economic sense, but is critical to ensuring that the sector is
aligned with the Department’s national security objectives?
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. So many of these
collaborations lead to direct investment into British
shipyards—for example, the over £70 million that we were just
talking about. But what does this mean in pounds, shillings and
pence? It means that those defence jobs are paid, on average, 15%
higher than the average wage, and that is just one reason why we
need to keep them in the UK.
(Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)
Contrary to the drivel we have just been listening to, there are
absolutely no guarantees about British jobs and British
apprenticeships in British yards. At what point are Ministers
going to stop talking about it and actually use procurement to
deliver and secure the future of British yards?
With great respect, that is completely wrong and risks being
misleading. What has been made crystal clear is that these ships
will be built, integrated and assembled in the United Kingdom.
Appledore will get work; Harland and Wolff will get work—there
will be investment and jobs in those shipyards. That is good news
and surely something we should be welcoming.
(Ynys Môn) (Con)
Ascent Flight Training at RAF Valley on Ynys Môn has been awarded
a £175 million contract to expand pilot training, with four new
Texan T6 aircraft, a new simulator, 11 additional flying
instructors and nine new engineering roles. From 2024, RAF Valley
will be responsible for training 53 student pilots, up from 36.
Will the Minister pay tribute to Ascent Flight Training, to the
whole force and to all those who support RAF Valley for playing
their part in keeping us safe?
My hon. Friend is such a champion of defence on Ynys Môn, and
yes, I absolutely pay tribute to them. It is only through their
fantastic work that we can come together as a nation, develop the
capabilities that we need and keep us and the next generation
safe.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
The National Audit Office has found the defence equipment plan to
be already outdated on its publication and based on optimistic
assumptions. With inflation out of control and with foreign
currency fluctuations, does the Minister expect defence companies
to bear the brunt of this turmoil, and if so, will this
ultimately lead to the loss of British jobs?
No, I do not. I am new to this Department, as the hon. Member
indicates, but one of the things I am really pleased about is to
see the ambition that exists within this Government to develop
the capabilities we need. I was also pleased to see that,
notwithstanding the difficult circumstances that we and the whole
world are in because of inflation, this Government are committed
to ensuring that those capabilities remain, that those critical
developments—Type 26, Type 31, the future combat air system,
Poseidon and so much other equipment —remain in the pipeline, and
that we do what we properly should to lead the world in
supporting our friends in Ukraine.
Support for NATO Allies
(Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
5. What steps his Department is taking to support NATO allies
following the Russian invasion of Ukraine.(902711)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
This year has been extraordinarily busy, as the alliance has
moved to respond to Russia’s aggression in Ukraine. The Royal
Navy has been deployed in the Black sea, the Baltic sea, the
eastern Mediterranean and the north Atlantic; the Army has been
deployed in Bulgaria, Poland, Lithuania and Estonia; and the
Royal Air Force has been deployed in Lithuania and Romania, as
well as in patrols over the Black sea, the Baltic sea and the
High North. We have also been engaging with the armed forces of
both Finland and Sweden in anticipation of their accession to
NATO.
I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. I have had the
privilege of travelling to Poland and Finland in recent months to
see how we are working with those allies. The UK must support
Ukraine for the long term, and it must move beyond ad hoc
donations of weapons and lay out a long-term strategy for
military, economic, humanitarian and diplomatic support
throughout 2023 and beyond. In the summer, the Defence Secretary
promised that the UK and its allies would begin to establish a
plan of action to support Ukraine into 2023. Can the Minister
tell us where that is? The Defence Secretary also endorsed
updating the integrated review in response to Ukraine during the
summer. Where is that plan?
The hon. Gentleman is right, to a point. There is a need to gift
in kind or to find international donations that meet an immediate
need because an opportunity has arisen in the conflict, but he is
right to suggest that there is also a sort of “business as usual”
drumbeat that we must, as an international group of supporters,
seek to deliver on. The problem is—I apologise to the House that
this is the case—that Putin would like to see that plan as much
as he would, and for that reason I can assure him that there is a
good supply of ammunition and matériel going into Ukraine over
the course of the next 12 months, but from where, when and what,
I will not be able to share.
Mr Speaker
I call the Chair of the Select Committee on Defence.
(Bournemouth East) (Con)
The UK has led by example with its military assistance to
Ukraine, but may I invite the UK to step forward again? Until
now, the west has publicly stated that it is for Ukraine to
determine on what terms Russia is defeated. It is their country
and, of course, Ukraine’s objectives are fundamental, but this
approach effectively outsources our Russia foreign policy and
ignores the wider long-term threat Moscow now poses to all of
Europe. Do we accept that this is no isolated invasion? Russia is
returning to type by expanding its influence across Europe, by
weaponising oil, gas and grain, and by increasingly drawing Iran
and Belarus into the fight. This is a European war and it is in
our economic and security interests to put out this fire. Our
Russia foreign policy should reflect that.
I agree, but I do not think the response to Ukraine is the
totality of the UK’s foreign policy on Russia. Russia is a
challenge not only across the European continent but beyond. My
right hon. Friend is right that Russia is using grain as a weapon
and as leverage across the global south, so the UK must seek to
address Russia’s malign activity globally while continuing to do
everything we are doing to ensure that the war in Ukraine ends on
terms acceptable to President Zelensky.
Cost of Living: Armed Forces Personnel
(Glasgow North West)
(SNP)
6. What recent assessment his Department has made of the
potential impact of the rise in the cost of living on armed
forces personnel. (902712)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
The Ministry of Defence has introduced a series of measures to
support our people to cope with the cost of living, including:
implementing the independent Armed Forces Pay Review Body’s 2022
pay award recommendations in full; capping subsidised
accommodation charges at 1%; freezing food charges; and
increasing travel allowances by 7%. More than 32,000 service
personnel have received a £150 contribution in lieu of the
council tax rebate, families can save around £3,400 per child per
year through our wraparound childcare, and our people in service
family accommodation are receiving a £400 non-repayable discount
to help with energy costs.
I thank the Minister for his response, but nearly 3,000 personnel
are already claiming universal credit, and food and heating costs
are soaring for everyone. In addition to what he has already
said, what discussions is he having with the Department for Work
and Pensions to ensure that all personnel who are entitled to
claim universal credit are doing so? What discussions is he
having with the Treasury to ensure that personnel are further
supported where required?
Dr Murrison
The hon. Lady will know that universal credit is an in-work
benefit and is dependent on income, family size, type of
accommodation and a raft of other issues. She will probably be
interested to know about the further investment we are putting
into family accommodation, which will help with many of the
problems that have been reported to me in relation to heating and
the cost of energy, especially through insulation. I suspect her
constituents will probably be most appreciative of that.
(South Dorset) (Con)
The cost of living crisis is no doubt affecting all those in the
armed forces, and so, too, will the call on them to help out
during all these strikes. Will the Government reward those who so
generously give of their time? I know they are assigned to work
over Christmas and new year, but are there any signs of some sort
of reward or thank you to those who, yet again, have been called
on to fill a hole?
Dr Murrison
My hon. Friend takes a close interest in the armed forces, and I
think I can assure him that conversations on this subject are
happening across Whitehall.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Plymouth, Sutton and
Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
The Army’s most senior soldier says personnel are turning to food
banks and second jobs this Christmas, just to make ends meet. Six
months ago, I raised the alarm that some troops are having to
take second jobs at McDonald’s because of the cost of living
crisis. I know the Minister says he is supporting our armed
forces during the cost of living crisis, but why is the Ministry
of Defence still not collecting data on the number of service
personnel using food vouchers and food banks or taking second
jobs?
Dr Murrison
I visited the food bank in my own constituency and discussed the
reasons that people use them, which are often complicated. The
hon. Gentleman will know that we have accepted the Armed Forces
Pay Review Body’s recommendation in full, in recognition of the
work that men and women of our armed forces do. He will be aware
of the very real big incentives to remain within the armed
forces, including a generous non-contributory pension, subsidised
accommodation and all the rest of it. He will also be aware of
the Haythornthwaite review, which I hope will report soon on what
more we can do to incentivise people not only to join but to
stay.
Cost of Living: Veterans
(Ealing Central and Acton)
(Ind)
8. What steps (a) Veterans UK and (b) the Veterans Welfare
Service have taken to help support veterans during the cost of
living crisis. (902714)
(Bury South) (Lab)
13. What steps (a) Veterans UK and (b) the Veterans Welfare
Service have taken to help support veterans during the cost of
living crisis. (902719)
(Salford and Eccles)
(Lab)
14. What steps (a) Veterans UK and (b) the Veterans Welfare
Service have taken to help support veterans during the cost of
living crisis. (902720)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
As of 30 November 2022, Veterans UK has paid a total of 5,323
disability cost of living payments of £150 to veterans who are in
receipt of a qualifying Ministry of Defence disability benefit.
Over the past six months, the Veterans Welfare Service has
assisted a total of 6,363 veterans with claims. The Veterans UK
helpline has answered a total of 29,922 calls. To be clear,
veterans—as civilians—are entitled to the same cost of living
support offered by national, local and devolved Governments
wherever they reside, in common with the general public.
Dr Huq
The Royal British Legion has issued 20% more basic support grants
in the last year. Help for Heroes reports that requests for help
are up by 28%, confirmed by what Ealing Ex-Servicemen’s Club
tells me, which also covers mental health issues. Why is the MOD
not allocating specific funding for veterans’ cost of living and
associated issues this year? When will it match Labour’s promise
to increase veterans’ mental health support by £55 million, to
protect those who protected us?
Dr Murrison
I am pleased that the hon. Lady raises mental health, which is a
passion of mine, particularly in relation to the armed forces. I
hope she will welcome the ongoing work of Op Courage to help our
veterans who run into difficulties. It is only reasonable to
point out that most of our service community are very well both
in mind and in body. However, Op Courage was designed to look
after those who are not. I hope she will welcome the extra £2.7
million to expand Op Courage services to better help those to
whom we owe so much.
Some 90% of veterans who try to claim the personal independence
payment for post-traumatic stress disorder are rejected,
according to armed forces charities. It can make up to 50% of
their income, and the rejections have left veterans attempting
suicide, facing homelessness or becoming reliant on food banks.
Why is it always veterans who are left until last and have to
rely on charity for assistance?
Dr Murrison
I hope the hon. Gentleman was listening to and approved of my
earlier answers on the support that Government are giving to our
armed forces community. I hope he will take note, because it is
important to understand the facts around suicide and mental
health in the armed forces community. If he is not familiar with
the recent Manchester University study on suicide, he may be
interested to read it. I will be more than happy to send him a
copy or arrange a briefing.
Veterans charities are reporting huge increases in demand for
basic support grants. Indeed, a recent survey by Help for Heroes
found that 82% of respondents were worried about the cost of
living, with one in eight having to use a food bank in the past
12 months. The Royal British Legion reports that 14% of veterans
aged 65 or over have turned off their heating to save money even
when it is too cold. Can the Minister assure me that he is
providing support to those services delivered by veterans
charities to ensure that veterans and their families across the
country can access cost of living support?
Dr Murrison
The hon. Lady takes a very close interest in these matters, for
which I am grateful. Of course the MOD works closely with service
charities, with whom we have an almost constant dialogue in terms
of their caseload to ensure that we do the best we can for our
veterans. It is worth bearing in mind that veterans are civilians
and are entitled to the same Government initiatives to ease their
position in the current crisis as any other member of general
public, as I said in my earlier remarks.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Luton South) (Lab)
Veterans and their families have made immense sacrifices for our
country’s safety, but, in the run-up to Christmas, we have
veterans hit by increased mortgage costs and rising bills, tens
of thousands of veterans claiming universal credit and many
reliant on charitable grants just to get by. It is not good
enough. How can the Minister expect us to believe that his
Government will make the UK the best place in the world in which
to be a veteran when they are leaving many veterans and their
families to struggle this Christmas?
Dr Murrison
I detect a theme in the line of questioning. I have to draw the
hon. Lady’s attention to the remarks that I made earlier and to
the package of assistance that the Government have provided for
all citizens. The focus of defence, of course, in accordance with
the military covenant, must be to ease the condition of people
who have suffered specifically as a result of their service in
the armed forces, which, although most members of our armed
forces community are robust mentally and physically, means that
particular attention must be paid to those who may have been
damaged in some way physically or mentally by virtue of their
service. That is what we are resolved to do, and hence, in
particular, our support for Op Courage.
Ukraine: Defence Support
(Kettering) (Con)
9. How many (a) armoured vehicles, (b) anti-tank weapons and (c)
multiple-launch rocket systems his Department has donated to
Ukraine for use against Russian forces in that country.
(902715)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
The UK is the second largest donor in military aid to Ukraine. We
have gifted almost 200 armoured vehicles and more than 10,000
anti-tank missiles to Ukraine. We have also delivered a number of
multiple launch rocket systems to counter Putin’s brutal use of
long-range artillery, but, for reasons of operational security, I
am unable to give a precise quantity.
Mr Hollobone
His Majesty’s Government have led Europe in arming Ukraine
against Russian aggression. What assessment has the Secretary of
State made of the equipment and personnel losses incurred by the
Russian armed forces as a result of the deployment of British
weaponry in theatre?
Mr Wallace
Although we do not specifically collect data on UK use of
weapons, we can say that we estimate that more than 100,000
Russians are either dead, injured or have deserted. Russia has
also lost 4,500 armoured vehicles, 63 fixed-wing aircraft, 70
helicopters, 150 unmanned aerial vehicles, 12 naval vessels and
more than 600 artillery systems, and failed to capture a single
one of its major objectives from day one. President Putin’s
three-day war, or special operation, turns out to have been a
disaster for him and his army.
(Tiverton and Honiton)
(LD)
Ukrainians have been buying Mitsubishi L200 pick-up trucks from
west country farmers to adapt them for use as impromptu fighting
vehicles. As the first Boxer armoured vehicles arrive with the
British Army in the coming months, what consideration are the
Government giving to passing some of the retiring Warrior
infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
First and foremost, the type of weaponry and vehicles that the
Ukrainians are buying off the shelf like that is not necessarily
because of a lack of need elsewhere, but because of the speed and
innovation that they require. When we transfer something like a
Warrior armoured personnel carrier, it is tracked, it is—if my
memory serves me right—28 tonnes, and it comes with a huge long
logistical supply chain. We are very interested in making sure
that we keep them supplied with equipment that they can use
almost immediately rather than having to deal with the huge
logistical tail that will come with it. We focus on giving them
what we can. We have obviously supported the renovation of
armoured vehicles and we will continue to do so.
(Uxbridge and South Ruislip)
(Con)
The House will know that supplies of British, American and other
western equipment have been vital in helping our Ukrainian
friends to protect themselves against the continuing and
merciless Russian attacks, and I thank my right hon. Friend and
the Government for all that they have done and continue to do.
Does he agree that we and our allies must help our Ukrainian
friends not just to take out the drones and missiles, which means
supplying them with anti-aircraft systems and fixed-wing aircraft
to help shoot them down, but to take out the launch sites of
those missiles and drones by supplying the Ukrainians with the
use of longer-range missile systems, such as army tactical
missile systems? That is the way, truly, to protect our Ukrainian
friends and to bring the war to an end as soon as possible.
Mr Wallace
Without my right hon. Friend’s support of me and Ukraine, none of
this would have been possible. I place on record my great
appreciation of his support through that process. He is right
that the Russians are taking advantage of the short-range
capability of the Ukrainian armed forces by using Iranian
kamikaze drones and, against all the rules of law, including the
Geneva conventions, by the mass targeting of critical civilian
infrastructure. That is not only a war crime, but a war crime
that we must see does not go unpunished. I constantly review the
weapons systems we could provide; I hear his call for ATACMS from
the United States, but we too have in our armoury potential
weapon systems that are longer range and, should the Russians
continue to target civilian areas and break those Geneva
conventions, I will be open-minded about what we do next.
(East Antrim) (DUP)
At a recent event in Monkstown Boxing Club in my constituency,
which was arranged to show support for Ukrainians located in the
greater Belfast area, there was huge support and thanks for the
work our Government have done to help Ukrainians to defend
themselves against Russians. The question is this: we are
supplying equipment, but there is talk now that we are only
supplying very limited ammunition for that equipment. Is the
Secretary of State convinced, first, that we are supplying what
is needed and, secondly, that we have the capacity to supply what
is needed in the future?
Mr Wallace
We are providing ammunition, although some of it is in the form
not necessarily of mass shells, but of more sophisticated weapons
systems such as Brimstone missiles or Saab Thales next generation
light anti-tank weapons, made in Belfast. We continue to supply
those and indeed resupply ourselves. For the areas where we do
not have something, we have set up an international fund with the
Danish, which has so far raised €600 million, and we will be
announcing the first block of purchases from the international
community or from production lines to make sure we help Ukraine
to get through 2023.
Women in the Armed Forces
(Truro and Falmouth)
(Con)
10. What recent assessment his Department has made of the
adequacy of progress towards creating a more inclusive
environment for women in the armed forces. (902716)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
This is an important question and I thank my hon. Friend for it.
Defence continues to improve the experiences of Defence women by
introducing flexible service, working to improve health,
instigating zero-tolerance policies on unacceptable sexual
behaviours, launching the Defence Serious Crime Unit on 5
December and creating an independent bullying and harassment
helpline. Defence Ministers and officials meet the servicewomen’s
networks regularly. We have made progress, but we know that we
must do more and continue to press ahead to make the armed forces
the best place to work for women.
Next year, Falmouth in my constituency will host national Armed
Forces Day. Following the success of last year’s G7, we hope that
it will be yet another momentous occasion for Cornwall and that
one of its lasting legacies will be that women and girls across
Cornwall will be inspired to join the armed forces. I thank the
Minister for his answer, but can he tell me to what extent the
focus on inclusivity is resulting in better retention of women in
the armed forces?
Dr Murrison
I agree with my hon. Friend and look forward to Armed Forces Day
in Falmouth. Women are, of course, an integral part of our armed
forces and Defence remains committed to improving their lived
experience. In a competitive age, our advantage derives from the
talent and skills of our people. We really must attract, recruit
and retain people from the broadest base possible. Not only is
that the right thing to do, but it is mission-critical to our
operational effectiveness. We are committed to making the changes
required to create a more inclusive environment for all women to
pursue long and successful careers—including my two serving
daughters.
Defence Relationships with European Allies
(Dudley North) (Con)
11. What steps his Department is taking to strengthen defence
relationships with European allies. (902717)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
The UK works bilaterally and multilaterally through NATO and
other groupings, including the Joint Expeditionary Force, the
Northern Group and the Combined Joint Expeditionary Force with
France to advance interoperability and develop a common
understanding of the threats we face. I recently met the new
Italian Defence Minister to discuss Tempest and the security of
the Mediterranean, and later today I will host the Hungarian
Defence Minister as we seek to progress Sweden and Finland’s
accession to NATO.
Does the Secretary of State agree that the joint venture between
the United Kingdom, Italy and Japan in the Tempest programme for
the new fighter jet is a great example of Brexit Britain? Will he
also support ensuring that the supply chain that it will
ultimately use is country-wide, including my Dudley
constituency?
Mr Wallace
Funnily enough, international consortiums and working together
with other countries unlock not only expert markets such as for
the Type-26, but investment in defence jobs here in the UK, which
somehow the Labour party never seems to work out in its simpleton
level of economic understanding. Perhaps the penny will one day
drop for the Labour party that if we invest in defence here and
work with international partners, we will get tens of thousands
of jobs and tens of thousands of pounds out of customers around
the world—
Mr Speaker
I call .
Mr Wallace
The only penny that drops for the Labour party—
Mr Speaker
Order. Sit down, Secretary of State! Can I just say to everybody
that there are preliminaries then questions, and we are going on
very long? I want to get as many Members in as possible, and we
have only got to question 11.
(Swansea West)
(Lab/Co-op)
Vladimir Putin clearly plans to starve and freeze Ukraine this
winter as he replenishes his own armaments ahead of a spring
offensive. What is the Secretary of State doing to increase the
number of armaments—not just from the UK but from across
Europe—so that Ukraine can gain ground now, not later, and why
does he not get on with it?
Mr Wallace
We are incredibly alert to that real challenge, which is why in
August we set up that fund, which has now accrued €600 million,
including donations from Norway and the Netherlands, to purchase
from ongoing production lines even Soviet-era-type calibres. It
is also why we constantly help with the training of our Ukrainian
friends up and down the UK, to make sure that they are using our
weapons systems in the best way possible, and to make sure that
we have the impact they need on the ground. We will continue to
work alongside our international partners to deliver that
throughout next year.
Defence Business Services
(Liverpool, West Derby)
(Lab)
15. Whether his Department has made an impact assessment of the
planned closure of Defence Business Services offices in the North
West. (902721)
A regional economic impact assessment was undertaken during
downselection but did not form part of the decision-making
criteria. The consolidation into the Blackpool site meets key
user requirements, is an opportunity to bring 700 posts to
Blackpool from our other north-west sites, and contributes to the
redevelopment at Talbot Gateway through the building of the new
Government hub.
I thank the Minister for that answer, but I have had many
constituents contact me about the planned closure of the Ministry
of Defence Business Services office in Liverpool. The movement of
jobs will affect them and their families. The new commute of more
than two hours—especially with the train service at the
moment—will be completely unworkable for many staff, particularly
those with caring responsibilities or disabilities. Will the
Minister meet me as soon as possible to discuss this situation so
that I can share the deep concerns of my constituents with
him?
Yes, of course, I will meet the hon. Gentleman. But there have
actually been some good and constructive conversations with the
unions, I am pleased to say, about trying to assist individuals
who may want to go—we will try to assist and provide expenses.
For those who do not, there is lots of work going on to ensure
alternatives should they want to take them. But let us discuss it
further—I would be very happy to do so.
Topical Questions
(Bracknell) (Con)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental
responsibilities.(902732)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
May I place on the record my thanks to the outgoing SNP Front
Bencher, the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and
Kirkintilloch East (), for his service and
constructive work in this House, and I welcome the hon. Member
for Angus () to his new post on the Front
Bench.
As we approach the festive season, can I also put on the record
my personal thanks to the personnel deployed on various
operations and peacekeeping missions around the world, many of
whom will be separated from loved ones over the Christmas period?
On Christmas Day this year, approximately 6,300 sailors, marines,
soldiers and aviators will be deployed around the world, serving
on 33 operations in 28 countries. On behalf of the House, I would
like to thank them for their sacrifices and wish them and their
families, wherever they may be, a very happy and safe Christmas
and new year.
In recent weeks, I have had several conversations with senior
military officers who, like me, are becoming increasingly
concerned by what they regard as unnecessary distraction within
the armed forces. Could the Minister please tell me what is more
important: unlawful recruitment policy, identity politics and
pronouns, or operation capability?
Mr Wallace
I hear my hon. Friend. Our advantage derives from our people. We
must attract, recruit and retain the best people, drawn from the
broadest diversity of thought, skills and backgrounds to ensure
that we meet the threats we face. That is how we make them the
most operationally capable armed forces of today, in the 21st
century. We must therefore recognise that diversity and inclusion
is not just morally right, but vital to that capability. We can
debate how we do that, but it is still vital.
Mr Speaker
Order. Work with me, Secretary of State; I want to work with you.
You have given very long answers during questions, and we are now
into topicals. We have to be short and sweet. Lots of Members on
both sides wanted to get in earlier but failed to because of the
long answer. Please, let us work together. I call John
Healey—briefly, please.
(Wentworth and Dearne)
(Lab)
At today’s Cobra meeting, will the Defence Secretary tell
Ministers in other Departments that too often they use our armed
forces to bail out their Departments’ failings, especially when
he is making further deep cuts to the Army? In addition to those
deployed on overseas operations, whom he has mentioned, how many
of our forces will be deployed or on standby over Christmas in
response to requests for military assistance to which he has
already agreed?
Mr Wallace
I will do the right hon. Gentleman a deal: I will raise that at
Cobra if he tells his union paymasters not to go on strike over
Christmas and not to ruin the lives of our soldiers and
sailors.
(Scunthorpe) (Con)
T3. I welcome the Government’s steps to support the British
shipbuilding industry. Those ships will require a lot of steel.
Does the Secretary of State agree that, wherever possible, we
should use the world-class steel we make in this country in such
projects?(902735)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
My hon. Friend is a fantastic champion of steel. I agree with
her. The support ship competition winner has indicated that it
intends to use UK-sourced steel whenever practical and, in any
event, for the majority of the build.
(Ogmore) (Lab)
T2. Over the summer, much noise was made about the Government’s
raising the defence budget to 3% of GDP. That has now transformed
into the Secretary of State’s accepting a £2.3 billion real-terms
cut to the defence budget. Do Ministers accept that that cut will
have a negative impact on recruitment, training, family support
and pay for our armed forces personnel?(902734)
Mr Wallace
First, I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s figures. Secondly,
between now and next year’s Budget, I have been given enough to
insulate us from the effects of inflation, and we can continue
within our current comprehensive spending review envelope. We can
discuss the next one when it comes up.
(North Devon) (Con)
T5. Does my right hon. Friend agree that our different cadet
groups do great work in inspiring the next generation? Will he
join me in congratulating PO Mack on his work with the excellent
Ilfracombe sea cadets?(902737)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families
( )
Absolutely. Our cadet forces do a wonderful job and I
congratulate PO Mack.
(East Lothian) (Alba)
T4. Last year, during a British Army exercise at the Lolldaiga
training camp in Kenya, a fire was caused, which has led to 6,000
Kenyans seeking compensation. I appreciate that the Minister may
not be sighted on that, but will he ensure that the Army’s
investigation into it is made public, especially if firearms,
explosives or drugs are involved?(902736)
The Minister for Armed Forces ()
I will write to the hon. Gentleman.
Sir (Maldon) (Con)
T9. I welcome the fact that air defence equipment is already
being supplied to Ukraine, but does my right hon. Friend agree
that Ukraine also needs to strengthen its air force, as my right
hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip () suggested? Will he consider
extending the security agreement with Sweden to allow it to
supply its Gripen aircraft to Ukraine and to train Ukrainians in
its use?(902741)
Mr Wallace
We are grateful to Sweden. Swedish personnel are here in the UK
training Ukrainian ground forces with us in the north of England.
Sweden is one of the contributing countries. Whether Sweden
wishes to donate aeroplanes is genuinely a matter for the Swedish
armed forces, but I understand the need that my right hon. Friend
is trying to tap into. We are doing everything we can to solve
that.
(Swansea West)
(Lab/Co-op)
T6. Earlier, the Secretary of State mentioned the lack of
long-range missiles in Ukraine. What drone capability has Ukraine
got to take out missile sites from Belarus that illegally target
civilians in Ukraine?(902738)
Mr Wallace
Ukraine has shown itself to be a master of innovation and has
already developed several long-range drones that are having an
effect. The real question here is scale and numbers, compared
with the numbers that Russia is buying from Iran. We need to
ensure that that is overmatched.
(Broadland) (Con)
Defence accommodation maintenance contracts that work on a
fix-it-when-it-breaks basis ignore preventive maintenance, create
perverse incentives—the longer a repair is left, the greater the
damage and the bigger the cost—and too often remove the ability
of accommodation users to look after their homes. Does my right
hon. Friend agree that it is time we looked at those contracts
again?
Dr Murrison
I am sympathetic to what my hon. Friend says and he can be sure
that my hon. and learned Friend the Minister for Defence
Procurement and I are looking closely at the FDIS—future defence
infrastructure services—contract right now.
(Salford and Eccles)
(Lab)
T7. Charities, such as the excellent Forces Employment Charity
through to brilliant sector specialists, such as Veterans into
Logistics are stepping up to provide structured career paths for
ex-military personnel. However, they lack consistent national
funding. How will the Minister address the funding support that
they require?(902739)
Dr Murrison
I hope that the hon. Lady will be aware of the career transition
pathway, an innovation that eases people’s passage from the armed
forces into the veteran community. Let us be clear: most members
of our armed forces transition perfectly well. Some need help,
and the career transition pathway is designed to provide
that.
Mr Speaker
I call Karl MᶜCartney.
Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Speaker, and may I compliment you on your military
grade haircut, and also refer Members to my entry in the register
of interests? Just cheering you up, Mr Speaker; it is
Christmas.
Lincoln is a city—including Lincoln College and its RAF linked
academy—with a concentration of innovative defence technology
firms. That is due in no small part to RAF Waddington being
located in my constituency and the historical links with the
military, particularly the RAF, across the county. What steps has
the MOD taken, or will it take soon, to allow those industries,
in some cases small businesses, to survive, grow and thrive in
this competitive arena?
Mr Speaker
We do not want a military-grade long answer—and I am not sure
about the hair.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Innovation is essential and
we are supporting it through initiatives such as the defence and
security accelerator and the defence technology exploitation
programme. We have all the plans we need to give us a competitive
edge and ensure we stay one step ahead of our opponents.
(Weaver Vale) (Lab)
According to the Department’s own figures 45% of military
personnel in single accommodation in Cheshire are living in
substandard accommodation, and that is 4,000 families nationally.
That is appalling; are these really homes fit for heroes and what
is the Minister going to do about it?
Dr Murrison
I do not recognise those figures but I do recognise the fact that
90% of people living in service family accommodation live in
homes that are at or above the Government’s decent homes
standards. The MOD aspires to decent homes plus and, this year
alone, is investing £176 million in upgrading service family
accommodation.
(Clwyd South) (Con)
My constituency has welcomed Ukrainian families with open arms.
What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the
effectiveness of Ukrainian defence against the evil Russian
forces invading the country?
Mr Wallace
I read out earlier the losses inflicted on the Russian army by a
much smaller army that is defending against an aggression that
does not have any basis in international law or respect for human
rights, and that is an extraordinary feat by those brave men and
women. We will continue to support all the way through the next
year, as will the international community, It is vital that Putin
fails in Ukraine.
(Barnsley Central) (Lab)
Christmas leave is precious, so can the Secretary of State or one
of his Ministers confirm that any serving personnel losing their
leave over the Christmas period in order to support MACA—military
aid to the civil authorities—commitments will be properly
compensated?
Mr Wallace
The hon. Gentleman will know about this because, I am afraid
that, under Governments of both parties, we have been involved as
former soldiers in meeting the consequences of strikes, whether
the tanker strikes, fire strikes or ambulance strikes, which are
potentially approaching. Yes, soldiers and sailors would prefer
to be doing their day job of defending their country, but
sometimes they are called upon when the unions put at risk the
safety of parts of this country and do so over a festive period.
Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can have a word with his hon. Friends
on the Opposition Front Bench and ask them to get his unions to
desist.
(New Forest East) (Con)
Is it not impossible for us to supply ever increasing amounts of
munitions to Ukraine and also to replenish our own munitions
stocks without a significant increase in our current peacetime
defence budget?
I was pleased to note an additional £560 million provided from
the recent settlement to replenish precisely those stocks. Also,
the production lines to re-procure some of the very weapons that
are going to go back on to British shelves are already running,
and we will continue on that path.
(Wrexham) (Con)
I welcome the recent changes to the service complaints system,
including separating alleged victims from perpetrators during
criminal investigations, but can the Minister explain how he
plans to implement the latter in restrictive services such as the
submarine service?
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to my hon. Friend who has done so much to advance
the cause of women in the armed forces. She will be aware of the
two current inquiries into behaviour on submarines and I am not
going to prejudice their outcomes. I expect them to make their
recommendations and will report on them to the House as soon as I
can.
(North Wiltshire) (Con)
The Secretary of State will be aware of a resolution recently
passed by the Russian Duma that no vessel whether merchant or
Royal Navy should pass through the waters to the north of Russia
without both permission from the Russians and Russian personnel
on board. Will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to
reassure me that if a Royal Navy vessel of any kind wants to
transit through the northern sea route, either above the water or
beneath it, we will do so without let or hindrance from the
Russian Federation?
Mr Wallace
One of the international treaties with the most signatures on it
is on freedom of navigation across all seas. The United Kingdom
stands strongly behind that and will uphold it wherever we can,
hence our transit of HMS Defender in the Black sea. We will do
that wherever we are able to do so in accordance with
international law, and we will not be intimidated by Russia or
any other nation.
(Ipswich) (Con)
It is clear to me that the armed forces will achieve their full
potential only if they are as attractive as possible to
neurodiverse thinkers, particularly in cyber. The need for
unconventional thinkers has perhaps never been greater than it is
now, but there can be challenges for them in meeting the core
competencies of “soldier first” as well as in physical tasks, as
I recently found out when it took me 25 minutes to put on a belt
at Sandhurst as a neurodiverse individual. Will the Secretary of
State outline what is being done to better attract the talents of
neurodiverse individuals into the armed forces?
Mr Wallace
The services are leading in trying to look at exactly that
unconventional route in. If we are to attract people to the
National Cyber Force and to cyber, we are going to have to think
in different terms from 20 or 30 years ago. That is incredibly
important. We need to be flexible, we need to be innovative and
we need to be modern.
(Witney) (Con)
The Secretary of State mentioned a Ukrainian innovation in the
use of drones. Are Ministers confident that in this country we
have the right resources and regulatory framework in place to
ensure that our forces can also benefit?
Mr Wallace
No, I am not. We need to look at some of those regulations,
because one of the things that holds us back too much in
innovation, development and deployment is our own regulation. Too
much of that holds us back. The Ukrainians obviously do not have
that consideration, and they are making amazing steps forward.
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