UK-India Trade Deal -
Commons
(Torfaen) (Lab)
(Urgent Question):To ask the Secretary of State for International
Trade if she will make a statement on progress made on the
UK-India free trade deal.
The Minister for Trade Policy ()
First, let me say that it is good to be back at the Department
for International Trade.
India is, of course, an economic superpower, projected to be the
world’s third largest economy by 2050. Improving access to this
dynamic market will provide huge opportunities for UK business,
building on a trading relationship worth more than £24 billion in
2021. That is why we are negotiating an ambitious free trade
agreement that works for both countries. We have already closed
the majority of chapters and look forward to the next round of
talks shortly.
A strong free trade agreement can strengthen the economic links
between the UK and India, boosting the UK economy by more than £3
billion by 2035, helping families and communities. An FTA can cut
red tape, making it cheaper for UK companies to sell into India’s
dynamic market, helping drive growth and support jobs across
every nation and region of the UK. Greater access could help UK
businesses reach more than a billion more consumers, including
India’s growing middle class, which is estimated to reach a
quarter of a billion by 2050, and give them a competitive edge
over other countries that do not have a deal with India. An FTA
with India supports the Government’s growth strategy, by taking
advantage of the UK’s status as an independent trading nation
championing free trade that benefits the whole of the UK. We
remain clear that we are working towards the best deal for both
sides and will not sign until we have a deal that is fair,
reciprocal and, ultimately, in the best interests of the British
people and the UK economy.
I welcome the Minister back to the Department once again, wish
him well and thank him for his response. I am also grateful to Mr
Speaker for granting this urgent question.
Not only is Diwali this year an important celebration, but it
marks another milestone. In January, negotiations on the UK-India
trade deal began, with the Government promising to conclude those
talks by Diwali—this week. Under this Government, economic growth
has been almost non-existent and promised progress on new free
trade deals has not materialised. The Government are all talk and
no delivery.
Not only would an agreement with India be potentially worth
billions of pounds to the UK economy and would provide new
markets for exporters, but it would offer the opportunity to
advance key areas of shared interests. Labour Members have also
been clear that it should also be an opportunity to raise issues
such as workers’ rights, and environmental and climate
standards.
However, it appears that progress on trade talks has stalled—this
is yet another product of Conservative infighting. Members across
this House are well aware of the comments on overstaying visas
made by the Home Secretary, which have caused such offence. Does
the Minister agree that the Home Secretary has completely
undermined the UK Government’s negotiating position? Will he
confirm whether she will be withdrawing those comments? Has a
future target date for completion of the deal been agreed? Or is
this destined to be kicked into the long grass, along with the
promised United States deal? Does he acknowledge that the delay
in this deal, and the US deal, means there is no prospect of the
Conservative party meeting its manifesto aim of 80% of trade
being covered by FTA agreements by the end of this year? Does he
not accept the simple truth: on trade, the Conservatives have
quite simply broken their promises?
I am delighted to have the opportunity to answer this urgent
question and some of the points that the right hon. Gentleman
raised. [Interruption.] I will answer all of them. First, on his
question about the end of the deal, we have been clear that we
have concluded, as we said we would, the majority of the chapters
of the deal. Sixteen chapters, across 26 policy areas, have been
agreed so far. The right hon. Gentleman will know that, after
each round of negotiations, a written ministerial statement,
which he can study, has been tabled in this place.
The right hon. Gentleman asked about visas. Perhaps he is trying
to have a second go about the Home Secretary, about whom we have
just heard an urgent question. I am not sure whether members of
the shadow Cabinet are properly co-ordinating their urgent
questions, but the right hon. Gentleman should know that we are
talking about mode 4 arrangements. They are not immigration
visas. They relate to business visas, not permanent settlement.
The terms of the mode 4 arrangements remain an area of active
negotiation.
Finally, the right hon. Gentleman said that the Government were
all talk and no delivery on trade. That amazed me the most. He is
obscuring the bigger issue for the Opposition. Let us assume that
we get a good deal with India for Britain and that we get a good
deal elsewhere, as we have done with Japan, Australia and New
Zealand. I have been away from the Department for a year, and in
that time Labour has not supported a single trade deal that the
Government have undertaken. The Opposition did not support the
Japan deal, they were against the Singapore deal and they split
three ways on Canada. Only last month, they abstained on the
Australia and New Zealand deals.
The Government are delivering on trade and the Opposition are in
chaos and confusion. They have been unable to support a single
trade deal to date and it sounds as though they will not support
this one.
(Berwick-upon-Tweed)
(Con)
I commend my right hon. Friend for taking the urgent question. It
is a pleasure to have a moment to pop down and add my voice to
the important point that the deal was commenced earlier this
year—I had the privilege of launching it—and that we and the
Indian Prime Minister set ourselves the task of providing clarity
about what a deal between our two nations could look like by
Diwali. I am pleased that progress has been made.
It is important to understand the value that the deal brings not
only because the Indian diaspora are such an important part of
our economy—they have been incredibly important in driving what
we are trying to achieve—but because so many British businesses
are excited at the prospect of some of the trade barriers coming
down. I would be pleased to hear from my right hon. Friend what
the key areas, particularly innovation, will bring for British
businesses as the deal crystalises in the weeks ahead.
I thank my right hon. Friend for her incredible service as
Secretary of State for International Trade in the past year. She
moved things forward in so many areas—crucially the area we are
discussing. When I left the Department, an India trade deal was
just a concept rather than something material. Five rounds of
negotiations later, she is right that we are in a good place.
We expect the deal to do a lot on tariffs. Many of our exporters
face considerable tariffs on services—professional, financial and
legal. I cannot promise that we will get everything in the deal.
On intellectual property, it will be easier for companies to work
through innovation and so on. There is a huge number of areas of
potential gain for India, including investment and life sciences.
I welcome my right hon. Friend’s support. Perhaps the Opposition
will take it as a lesson and support a trade deal in future.
Madam Deputy Speaker ( )
I call SNP spokesperson .
(Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch
and Strathspey) (SNP)
Welcoming a Minister back to his place is now a standard
response, but I welcome the Minister back.
Increased trade, ties and co-operation between India and the UK
are welcome, especially in Scotland. However, that should not be
at the expense of human and workers’ rights. Will the Minister
belatedly guarantee that issues about human rights, the
environment and health and safety, along with climate and
equality concerns are fully resolved before any deal is
signed?
Does the Minister really believe that there is no anger and no
problem about the Home Secretary’s comments in India that might
cause difficulties for the deal?
Scotch whisky exports to India are already subject to 150%
tariffs. New Delhi has threatened even higher tariffs on whisky
and gin in retaliation for domestic steel protections. Whisky and
gin producers need to know that the UK Government are doing
something to reduce those tariffs drastically. What is going on?
What will be done to ensure that barriers are not just replaced
at Indian state level?
Jagtar Singh Johal remains in an Indian prison without trial. He
has been detained since 2017. The UK has had four Prime Ministers
and five Foreign Secretaries since his illegal detention. What is
the Minister doing during negotiations to right that wrong?
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that list of questions. As ever,
the UK’s commitment to workers’ rights in our trade deals and
negotiations and in all our international talks remains
undiminished. That is fundamental for this country.
I am glad that the hon. Gentleman mentioned whisky tariffs. He
did not support the Australia free trade deal, which means a
reduction in whisky tariffs. Tariffs on Scotch whisky going to
India are currently 150%. I will therefore watch closely his
approach to the deal. Our successful removal of the Airbus-Boeing
tariffs has hugely benefited the Scotch whisky industry. I am not
sure whether the hon. Gentleman fully supported that.
The hon. Gentleman raised human rights. At all times, the Foreign
Office engages vigorously on the case mentioned and on other
cases.
Let me end with the SNP. On trade deals, it is even worse than
Labour. SNP Members have never supported a trade deal concluded
by either the European Union or the UK. They did not even support
the trade deal between the EU and the UK. They voted for no deal
two years ago. They were against the deals with Canada, Korea and
South Africa. They did not even support the trade deal between
the EU and Ukraine. They also abstained on the Japan and
Singapore deals. The SNP is fundamentally against trade and the
interests of Scotland as a trading nation.
Mr (South West Hertfordshire)
(Con)
I welcome my right hon. Friend back to his place.
I am a member of the Scotch whisky all-party parliamentary group
and have had the opportunity to work closely with Scotch Whisky
Association. Notwith-standing the Minister’s previous answer,
will he confirm that the deal is a great opportunity for
businesses up and down our great country to increase their order
book and, more importantly, work with countries with shared
values?
Pretty much the first visit our new Secretary of State for
International Trade made was to a distillery just a few weeks
ago, showing our commitment to our brilliant UK food and drink
exporting sectors. My hon. Friend is right to mention the
exceptionally high levels of tariffs on whisky and other
alcoholic products exported to India. I cannot guarantee that we
will eliminate those tariffs, but if we are not at the table
conducting those negotiations—the Opposition parties do not seem
to think we should be there—we will not achieve anything.
(Birmingham, Perry Barr)
(Lab)
The trade deal is being discussed against a background of India
not protecting human rights and civil liberties for the Christian
community, the Hindu community, the Sikh community, the Muslim
community and the Kashmiri community. If we are to go ahead with
a trade deal, does the Minister understand that it must be based
on the Indian Government’s actions on human rights and civil
liberties? Otherwise, we should not proceed with it.
As I said earlier, the UK Government have an exceptionally proud
record of promoting human rights around the world. In my 12 years
as a Minister and a Back Bencher, I have always been impressed by
the Government’s vigour in supporting global human rights.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned Kashmir. He has plenty of
opportunities to raise the issue at Foreign Office questions, but
the Government’s position is unchanged. It is for India and
Pakistan to find a lasting political resolution to the Kashmir
dispute. India and Pakistan are long-standing, important friends
of the UK. We encourage both to engage in dialogue and find
lasting diplomatic solutions to maintaining regional
stability.
(Totnes) (Con)
There is absolutely no pleasing the Opposition. They criticise us
when we sign our deals too quickly and they criticise us when we
take too long. The point is that we have to get this absolutely
right. This Government have signed deals with Australia and with
New Zealand, and negotiations are under way on the comprehensive
and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership. We are
exploring the Gulf Co-operation Council and we are looking at
India. We have concluded a digital partnership with Singapore. We
have done a trade deal with Japan and we are improving the
roll-over deals that we took from the European Union. That is
what we are doing and what we are delivering on. Frankly, we have
had this conversation before with the Opposition. Does the
Minister agree that they do not recognise the very many benefits
that these deals bring?
My hon. Friend is an experienced, dedicated and committed member
of the International Trade Committee. He is right in what he
says. I was in opposition myself some, gosh, 17 years ago to 12
years ago. If the Opposition are serious about going into
Government they need to be clear not just about what they are
against—they are against trade talks, against trade deals, and
against the India trade talks—but about what they are in favour
of. What are the Opposition for, Madam Deputy Speaker? The shadow
Cabinet might have had a better session this afternoon deciding
that rather than tabling more urgent questions.
(Chesham and Amersham) (LD)
The House of Lords International Agreements Committee published
its report on the Government’s negotiating objectives in July. It
criticised them as being very general and high-level, and said
that they provided no clue as to the Government’s negotiating
priorities. Can the Minister confirm whether high animal welfare
standards are a negotiating priority?
What happens with a set of trade negotiations is that, when we
set out the negotiating objectives and the scoping assessment,
they are by necessity rather general, because the teams have not
started negotiating, so they do not know what the other side will
want to achieve in those talks. They have not actually started on
any of those issues, so those things are by necessity rather
general.
The hon. Lady asked about animal rights and she was quite right
to raise that, as it is very important part of the Government’s
agenda. None the less, the Government’s position remains
unchanged: we have very high standards of animal welfare and we
will make sure that they are not undermined by any trade
agreement. In any case, we as a country set our animal welfare
standards; they are not set through any trade deal.
(Cheltenham) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend share my surprise at the Opposition’s
foot dragging on this given that one of the great prizes with
India is on legal services? The right hon. Member for Torfaen
() is himself a lawyer.
Does this deal not present a great opportunity, given that
English law governs so many contracts, for us to progress this
vital industry to secure more jobs for lawyers in this
country?
My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. Legal services
are a really important part of this agenda. One of the first
meetings that I had in the Department was with the chair of the
Bar Council, Chantal-Aimée Doerries, who told me in some detail
about some of the gains that could be achieved in legal services
by getting a good deal with India to make sure that our global,
high-quality legal services are appreciated right the way across
the world.
(Exeter) (Lab)
It would be easier to do trade and commerce with India if it were
easy to travel there. As I am sure the Minister is aware, the
British are the only nationality in Europe who are currently
barred from India’s e-tourist visa system. We always used to be
able to get e-visas for India, but, following the Home
Secretary’s remarks, we no longer can. This is doing great
damage, as we have heard on the Transport Committee, to our
travel industry, to the Indian tourism industry and to the
thousands of British families whose plans to travel to India are
now in jeopardy. Will he use his good offices across Government
to get this issue resolved in advance of any trade deal? This is
real damage that is being done now.
We take an ongoing interest in the ability of our citizens to
travel abroad and to access other countries. However, I stress
again that a trade negotiation covers what is called mode 4,
which relates to the movement of people—in other words, business
visas. I am confident that we can get a good deal with India when
it comes to mode 4.
(Broadland) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that this is an exciting
opportunity to help unlock the economic potential of the living
bridge that Prime Minister Modi has recently described? As for
the notional timeline of Diwali, does he also agree that getting
the right deal is much more important than getting any deal?
My hon. Friend is right. We have a brilliant diaspora community
in this country. I was delighted to celebrate Diwali—a little bit
early—last week with the India Global Forum. That was a really
telling example of the strength of the diaspora deal. He is also
right that the content, the depth and breadth of the deal are
more important than the data that it delivers. That is the case
for all trade negotiations. It is a matter not of getting a quick
deal, but of getting the best deal for Britain, which is exactly
what we have done with Japan, exactly what we have done with
Australia and exactly what we have done with New Zealand.
(South Antrim) (DUP)
My colleague on the International Trade Committee, the hon.
Member for Totnes (), mentioned the trade
deals that we have already signed and the progress that has been
made on others. As a Committee, we have had some concerns about
when trade deals are presented to the Committee. They need to be
presented in a timely fashion so that the detail can be
scrutinised. I do not wish to hold up a deal being made, but we
understand that it can be important to get things done in a
timely fashion. Can we have an indication as to when a deal will
be put together and presented to the Committee?
I will not set a deadline today for this ongoing negotiation. May
I commend the hon. Gentleman for one thing—apart from his work on
the Committee? I think it was the Democratic Unionist party that
voted with the Government on the Australia and New Zealand trade
deals. It is nice to see an Opposition party that is willing to
take a constructive approach to what the Government are
proposing, if it is in the interests of the UK and Northern
Ireland. I commend him for that.
When it comes to interaction with MPs, I did an MPs briefing last
week on the India trade deal. I mentioned that we have had
written ministerial statements after each round of negotiations.
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be appearing
before the ITC, I believe, on 30 November at an introductory
hearing, and I am sure that this will crop up there as well.
(Blackpool South) (Con)
I welcome the Government’s efforts to secure a free trade deal
with India and the growth, jobs and investment that this will
help to create. However, the Minister will be aware of our
manifesto commitment to reduce net migration and the perception
among many of my constituents that we are not succeeding in that
aim. Will the Minister reassure the House that throughout these
negotiations, in seeking to boost economic growth, he will also
balance this against abiding by our manifesto commitments?
The Prime Minister has been absolutely clear about the importance
of our manifesto commitments. I remind my hon. Friend, as I
reminded the whole House, that this deal is not about
immigration; it is about mode 4 business visas, which will be
really important for both countries to continue to do trade,
particularly services trade, such as the legal services that my
hon. and learned Friend the Member for Cheltenham () mentioned. We need to make sure
that our professionals can get into the Indian market to deliver
their fantastic, world-leading services.
(Luton North) (Lab)
Will the Minister please confirm that, during negotiations on
this and any other trade deal, vital issues such as human rights,
workers’ rights, especially women’s rights, and environmental
standards have not only been discussed but that guarantees have
been secured, and is he able to share what those guarantees
are?
The hon. Lady is right to raise those issues. I repeat what I
said earlier: the UK is very proud of our standards and of the
work that we do around the world on these really important
questions. These are questions and issues that are raised with
India and with all of our partners at all times.
(Birmingham, Hall Green)
(Lab)
The Minister will not be oblivious to the human rights record of
Indian Prime Minister Modi and his Government given the
atrocities being carried out against ethnic communities across
India, namely the Christians and the Sikh community, and also
their revocation of articles 370 and 35A in Indian-occupied
Kashmir. Will the Minister categorically give us the assurance
that no trade agreement will go ahead until India meets its
obligations under international law and fulfils many of its
outstanding UN commitments?
I have already talked about Kashmir and the Government’s
commitment to finding a resolution of that issue, working
peacefully and with the two Governments together.
May I just return to the case of Jagtar Singh Johal, raised by
the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey
(), and add a little bit of
detail on that important human rights case? The Foreign,
Commonwealth and Development Office and the Government have
consistently raised our concerns about Mr Johal’s case directly
with the Government of India. I believe that our then Prime
Minister raised it with Prime Minister Modi earlier this year as
well.
(Harlow) (Con)
I strongly welcome the Government’s progress on this incredibly
important deal. We have a thriving Indian community in Harlow,
and I hope my right hon. Friend will wish them a happy Diwali. I
ask him, when we sign these deals, to ensure that it is not just
the big multinationals in the UK that benefit, but that he goes
directly with information to smaller companies, like the many in
my constituency, so they can benefit from these wonderful trade
deals too?
I certainly join my right hon. Friend in wishing all his Harlow
constituents a happy Diwali; it is a fantastic and particularly
appropriate moment for that festival to come to this country and
to India. He mentions ensuring that the trade deals work not only
for multinationals, but for small and medium-sized enterprises,
and he is right. The UK has an SME-led economy and it would be
strongly in our interest to ensure that all trade deals work for
SMEs. That is why it is typically our practice to negotiate an
SME chapter in our trade deals to ensure that SMEs, which do not
always have the resources to wade through a 1,000-page-plus free
trade agreement document, are given headers and pointers on how
that deal will help to benefit them.
(Strangford) (DUP)
I declare an interest as the chair of the all-party parliamentary
group for international freedom of religion or belief. With
increasing violations of FORB in India and the systematic
disenfranchisement of those of Christian and Muslim faith, does
the Minister agree that human rights provisions must be included
in the India trade deal, and can he guarantee that no blind eye
will be turned to human rights abuses for the sake of economic
benefit?
I think this Government have a fantastic record of promoting
religious tolerance and religious diversity abroad. The current
Chancellor, when he was Foreign Secretary in this Government,
made that one of his key early launch pads. I might add that the
British high commission in New Delhi and our deputy high
commissions right across India regularly meet with religious
representatives and have run projects supporting minority rights.
That is a big part of what the UK presence on the ground in India
is all about.
UK-India Free Trade
Deal - Lords
The Minister of State, Cabinet Office and Department of
International Trade ( of Lainston) (Con): I
ask noble Lords to indulge me with their forgiveness for not
delivering my maiden speech as my first item, but I have been
asked to answer this Question. I will be giving my maiden speech
tomorrow, for those who wish to hear it, in a QSD on Iran. It is
a pity, because I should obviously like to use this opportunity
to talk about the courtesies and kindnesses I have received from
so many noble Lords, but please know that that will be
forthcoming tomorrow.
I also declare an interest, as we are talking about India and a
free-trade agreement. I have equity in a fund management business
that invests in India, although I do not think there are any
specific issues raised by this discussion.
With the leave of the House, I shall now repeat the Answer given
to an Urgent Question by my right honourable friend the Minister
for Trade Policy.
“India is an economic superpower, projected to be the world’s
third largest economy by 2050. Improving access to this dynamic
market will provide huge opportunities for UK business, building
on a trading relationship worth more than £24 billion in 2021.
That is why we are negotiating an ambitious free trade agreement
that works for both countries. We have already closed the
majority of chapters and look forward to the next round of talks
shortly.
A strong FTA can strengthen the economic links between the UK and
India, boosting the UK economy by more than £3 billion by 2035.
An FTA can cut red tape, making it cheaper for UK companies to
sell into India’s dynamic market, helping drive growth and
support jobs across region of the UK. Greater access could help
UK businesses reach more than a billion more consumers, including
India’s growing middle class, estimated to reach a quarter of a
billion by 2050, and give them a competitive edge over other
countries that do not have a deal with India. An FTA with India
supports the Government’s growth strategy by taking advantage of
the UK’s status as an independent trading nation, championing
free trade that benefits the whole of the UK. We remain clear
that we are working towards the best deal for both sides and will
not sign until we have a deal that is fair, reciprocal and,
ultimately, in the best interests of the British people and the
UK economy.”
17:56:00
(Lab)
My Lord, I welcome the Minister to your Lordships’ House and wish
him all the best for his maiden speech tomorrow. I know he will
agree that achieving a free trade agreement with India is vital
for the opportunities it presents— financial opportunities to
increase our GDP, create new markets and achieve key areas of
shared interest, but also opportunities to raise a number of
vital issues where the Indian Government fall short, including on
human rights and workers’ rights, the environment, climate and
other geopolitical issues.
In January, the Government promised that talks towards the deal
would be completed by Diwali, which Hindus across the world are
celebrating this week. What makes the Government’s failings on
this FTA all the worse and significant is that that deadline was
self-imposed, but we all knew it would fail. I challenge the
Minister: can he therefore outline to your Lordships’ House what
plans his Government are making to get the talks back on track?
of Lainston (Con)
I thank the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, for that follow-up
question, and thank him very much for his kindness earlier, as
well. He promised to be as kind as possible during this debate,
so I thank him for that.
Actually, the Government never promised to conclude these talks
by Diwali. We promised to have the majority of the talks
concluded by the end of October, which we have: 16 chapters, the
majority, are already concluded. This trade deal is actually on
track. For me, it is one of the most exciting opportunities this
country has had in generations. If we think about what India has
to offer us, it is phenomenal. I was in India last week, and I
pay tribute to our staff on the ground there, who are doing a
huge amount of work to ensure our cordial relations with a
country that will, in my view, become one of our greatest
partners. I have celebrated Diwali with our high commission
office in Mumbai.
Negotiations are ongoing and have been going on today. We have
had five formal negotiations so far, I think; we are expecting a
sixth in the next month or so. If we expect progression of that,
we will be looking forward to substantial progress over the
coming months.
(LD)
My Lords, I also welcome the noble Lord to his position. Since I
have been covering international trade issues for these Benches,
he is now the seventh Minister that I have been shadowing, so I
wish him a long time in the position. If he lasts more than nine
months, he is breaking the average over the last few years.
Given that the Minister has not yet had an opportunity to update
his register of interests on the Parliament website—I am grateful
for his declaring of that interest at the moment—could he say,
given that the UK is seeking to have services as part of this
agreement and given that he has a direct financial interest,
whether he will recuse himself from any of the discussions on
services going forward?
We would support an FTA with India very strongly, and when we
debated the issue, we also questioned which areas were still
outstanding. Can the Minister confirm that the UK has put wider
visa access and mutual recognition of qualifications on the
table?
Can he also confirm that—while not disregarding the figures of
benefits that he indicated—nearly as much of the benefit for
trade with India will be offset by a decline in trade with
developing nations through trade diversion, to the tune of about
£3 billion, which means that the net benefit for trading with the
wider region is far less than what we would expect?
Finally, can he say whether the fact that India has negotiated
with Moscow a rupee/rouble swap, for the purchasing of cheaper
fuel, has been raised by the UK at the very time that we are
discussing services access? Surely it is not right for us to fail
to raise issues of such seriousness when we are negotiating with
our friendly nation in Delhi.
of Lainston (Con)
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for that range of questions,
which I am sure we will have an opportunity to discuss at great
length personally. I would like to reassure noble Lords that I am
very much available to all of them for not only the formal
process for discussion around trade deals but also as an
individual, to make sure that we share the excitement and the
opportunities offered to us and I can give noble Lords as much
information as I can, in order that we can progress this process.
I would like to answer, most importantly, the first question. I
do not want to go into my financial details now, but I am in the
process of ensuring that I will not be presented with a conflict
of interest in the next few days—hopefully by the end of the
month. Of course, if there is any conflict of interest, I assume
that will be addressed in the appropriate manner. I am grateful
to noble Lords for your indulgence to ensure that this is done
properly and effectively, and I hope that you see me as
transparent on this point.
(Con)
My Lords, I also welcome my noble friend the Minister to the
Dispatch Box. If the House will indulge me for a second, I have
known the Minister since we were teenagers, and he has always
been wise, humble and funny, albeit evincing a curious fondness
for the European Union which doubtless will endear him to all
sides in this House, including several noble Lords who I see are
present here now.
May I ask him about the potential landing zone for the UK-India
FTA? There has been a demand from some in Delhi for visa rights
equivalent to those for Australia and New Zealand, which I think
all sides recognise is not realistic given the disparity in GDP
and the disparity in numbers. However, I think that there is
space for a more generous visa regime, particularly for business
travellers and some work permits, as well as a more generous
attitude from the UK when it comes to respecting WTO rules on
food, rather than adding on EU additions, in exchange for a lot
more market access for our services. Does my noble friend the
Minister see the outlines of a deal on that basis?
of Lainston (Con)
I am very grateful to my noble friend for highlighting our
childhood friendship and exposing me as a Europhile—I am not sure
if that was quite so necessary in my opening gambit. But I am a
free trader above all things, and I think he encapsulates very
well the views of this Government in terms of the benefits that
free trade brings.
I would like to make an important clarification, and I am happy
to have further discussions with noble Lords about this. The free
trade agreement with India does not include sections on
immigration; that is a completely separate matter. What we are
talking about here is mobility visas for businesspeople, and we
require those opportunities as much as Indian companies do. I
remind noble Lords, and my noble friends behind me, that Indian
companies in this country employ literally tens and tens of
thousands of people. The opportunities we have to swap
intellectual property—our human capital, which is what we will
export to India in exchange for the huge opportunities that it
will present to us—insist on, and ensure we should have, an
element of toing and froing. That is how we benefit through the
brotherhood of trade and the brotherhood of nations. But I must
separate those two points; I think that is very important.
(Lab)
On behalf of the International Agreements Committee and as its
chair, I welcome the Minister to his place. He will have read our
report on the India free trade agreement, so I will ask him two
questions. The first is the one that he did not answer from the
noble Lord, Lord Purvis, on how this sits alongside the close
relationship that India has with Russia, which goes against our
current interests. Secondly, facilitation payments are common in
India and are well below modern international business standards.
What are the Government doing to tackle this great problem in our
business relations with India?
of Lainston (Con)
I greatly appreciate the noble Baroness’s question. I thank her
for all support she has given us in the department to ensure that
we have a very powerful exchange and that we work very closely
with her and her committee. I hope she will feel that I am fully
available to her to ensure that she is thoroughly apprised of our
activities around all free trade deals.
It is important that we are negotiating a free trade deal with
India, and it is important to note, when it comes to the noble
Baroness’s question about Russia, that we work with all our
international partners, including India, to co-ordinate the
international response to Russia’s unlawful invasion of Ukraine.
We encourage all our partners to support international efforts to
counter Russia’s flagrant aggression and violation of the United
Nations charter, and to avoid any actions that might undermine
this. It is important that we stress our position in those words.
(CB)
My Lords, I too pay due regard to and thank all our
representatives in India, including those in Bangalore, Hyderabad
and Mumbai. I have recently returned from that country, and I
left with an undeniable assessment that there is a firm need for
this country to have a strategic relationship with India. We need
to run to keep up. One area I can identify in particular is the
supply chain, given our issues with China. There is a real role
for India to fulfil that position not only for the UK but
globally, along with Turkey and Brazil, for example, so that
supply chain issues can be diversified to the benefit of the
world at large.
of Lainston (Con)
I thank the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, for his point and I
completely agree: the opportunities we see there are phenomenal.
If we can find a powerful way to access this market, we will
astonish ourselves with the wealth that we will create and the
additional opportunities that we will have to control our
destiny. When I was there last week, I came across a mobile phone
company that had 400 million subscribers and a car company that
wanted to sell 30,000 cars in one year and instead sold 100,000
in half an hour. As has rightly been said, there are
opportunities for this nation. It is a millimetre away from
escape velocity to become one of the greatest economies in the
world. The state of Tamil Nadu will have an economy bigger than
the UK’s, we think, in 10 to 15 years’ time. I appreciate the
noble Viscount’s support and this question. We should be
continually striving to do free trade agreements with India and
other countries. I very much look forward to the support of noble
Lords opposite and my noble friends behind me as we embark on
this great mission.
