To ask His Majesty’s Government whether the Type 45 Power
Improvement Project (1) is now going to plan, and (2) is
producing results that surpass expectations.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence () (Con)
My Lords, HMS “Dauntless” has successfully completed rigorous sea
trials at the end of our power improvement project conversion.
The performance of HMS “Dauntless” demonstrated that the PIP
design works well. The ship has now returned to Portsmouth for a
scheduled maintenance period. HMS “Daring” is receiving PIP
conversion at Cammell Laird, and HMS “Dragon” is receiving her
conversion at HM naval base Portsmouth as part of an upkeep
programme. Both projects are progressing well.
(Lab)
My Lords, I am delighted to ask the first Question about His
Majesty’s ships in this new reign; I may possibly ask some more
questions about them in future. I am delighted to hear that the
work on “Dauntless” has gone so well. These are the best anti-air
warfare ships in the world and it is horrifying that the power
issue has been a problem for them. I only wish that they were all
at sea now.
However, as we speak, a Type 23 frigate—one of 12 that we have—is
looking after our exclusive economic zone assets, such as oil
platforms, gas pipelines, fibreoptic cables, power cables,
interconnectors and fisheries: what used to be known as the
“offshore tapestry”. We have some 300,000 square miles to look
after and to guard this, the Navy at the moment deploys three
patrol boats. In the 1980s, we had 17 ships doing it. Does the
Minister think that three patrol ships are sufficient? What work
is being undertaken to review the level of protection of these
incredibly important national assets on the seabed in view of the
current war in Europe and the possibility of a world war?
(Con)
Well, I do not completely recognise the figures that the noble
Lord uses and he will know the constraint I am under in referring
to specific operational activity. However, what I would say is
that, as he will be aware, we always keep an eye on operational
requirement, which is why we plan scheduled maintenance to make
sure that we are always able to maintain the essential task that
we require of the Navy.
I know that the noble Lord sometimes wears a mournful demeanour
when asking me Questions at the Dispatch Box, but I think he will
agree that the shipbuilding programme for the Royal Navy is very
exciting. For the first time in 30 years, we are building two
types of frigate simultaneously at UK yards.
(CB)
My Lords, the Type 45 is a crucial air defence platform for the
protection of surface task forces, but ships are no use whatever
without weapons. So how long would the Type 45s’ current stock of
surface-to-air missiles be expected to last in a high-intensity
conflict?
(Con)
I would be reluctant to speculate on a specific answer to the
noble and gallant Lord at the Dispatch Box; I need to go away and
make some inquiries and I will endeavour to respond to him as
best as I can.
(Con)
My Lords, back in the 1980s, when I was a very junior Minister at
the Ministry of Defence, we had about 50 destroyers and frigates
available for service with the Royal Navy. How many do we have
today?
(Con)
Again, I would be hazarding a guess as to the total number. It is
a healthy number, but I will get a specific answer to my noble
friend’s question and write to him.
of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, in responding to the initial Question, the Minister
pointed out that various ships are in dock having PIP done. That
is great—but what went wrong with the original procurement? What
went wrong with the Queen Elizabeth class such that HMS “Prince
of Wales” needed to come back to dock? Can the Minister reassure
the House that, with the current shipbuilding process, ships will
be fit for purpose first time round and not have to come back for
maintenance quite so promptly?
(Con)
As the noble Baroness will be aware, the propulsion issue that
arose with the Type 45s was a complex technical issue. Indeed, it
has been a complex engineering project to rectify it, but, thanks
to the evidence through “Dauntless”, we are now satisfied that
very healthy progress has been made.
As I have said previously in the Chamber, the case of HMS “Prince
of Wales” is unfortunate. I understand that she has now made it
to Rosyth, which is good news, and will be going into dry dock.
We will then be able to explore in more detail the exact nature
of the fault. It is not thought to be a class fault. HMS “Queen
Elizabeth” has been inspected and is continuing to discharge her
duties in the US in support of the Atlantic Future Forum.
(Lab)
My Lords, in December, in a report entitled We’re Going to Need a
Bigger Navy, the Defence Select Committee expressed concern that
the Type 45 PIP programme was “slipping”. In February, in their
response to conclusion 20 of that report, the Government admitted
that barriers to speeding it up included
“constraints of industrial capacity”.
In a letter dated 21 June, they said that they were
“assessing options to accelerate the programme”.
Do those options include addressing the constraints of industrial
capacity? If so, what are the constraints and what are the
options for addressing them?
(Con)
The response given at the time was a reflection of both industry
and the department doing their best to advance the correction of
the propulsion defects. As I have indicated to the Chamber,
progress has certainly been made with “Dauntless” and is being
made with “Daring” and “Dragon”. We are looking at the options as
best we can to accelerate the programme and complete this as
early as possible before 2028. However, as I said earlier, that
must be balanced against the Royal Navy’s current and future
operational commitments.
(Lab)
My Lords, following on from the question asked by my noble friend
Lord Browne, that means that until 2028 we will not have a full
complement of our Type 45 destroyers. Just a month or so ago, all
six were in dry dock. Building on the question asked by my noble
friend Lord West, does this not highlight once again that the
Royal Navy is now too small? Waiting until 2028 for all six Type
45 destroyers to be fully available to the British Navy concerns
us, particularly at a time of international crisis.
(Con)
Of course, implicit in my answer is that before 2028 we hope to
have the ships returning to full working order. As the noble Lord
is aware, “Defender” is currently conducting operations and
defence engagement in the Mediterranean. We very much hope that
the drumbeat of progress on restoring the propulsion system will
continue. As the noble and gallant Lord said, these are very
important ships. They are hugely capable and much admired across
the world, and this improvement of the propulsion system is
making them more resilient, adding to their admirable
capability.
(CB)
My Lords, given that India and the UK are currently negotiating a
trade agreement, given that the Indians are considering moving
procurement away from Russia to the United Kingdom, and given
that India has recently launched an aircraft carrier of its own
from Kochi, is it under any thought at the Ministry of Defence to
outsource the production of ships to the Indians for various
reasons, not least speed of production and cost?
(Con)
As the noble Viscount will be aware from the refreshed national
shipbuilding strategy, which is one of the most exciting
developments we have seen for shipbuilding in the UK, there is a
desire to nourish, nurture, sustain and fortify our indigenous
shipbuilding industry. We are very anxious to do that, but we
have never closed our minds to procuring elsewhere if that is
what is required in the best interests of the country. At the end
of the day, the shipbuilding strategy covers commercial activity,
not just MoD activity.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister said that the work being done on the
destroyers will make them more resilient. That is really good,
but a few months ago none of them was operational, as other noble
Lords have said. We have now got one of our two aircraft carriers
with a bent prop somewhere in Rosyth. Have we got anything that
works first time these days?
(Con)
The noble Lord is being slightly mischievous and, as he is well
aware, yes, we have a lot of ships that work extremely well. They
have been much in evidence, not least when they were supporting
the carrier strike group and were part of that global support
activity. They have also been active in various arenas, as the
noble Lord is well aware. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord West,
I cannot comment in detail on operational activity, but we are
satisfied that our operational requirements are being met.
(CB)
My Lords, ships of course need crews to work them. Can the
Minister give any indication as to whether the Royal Navy
manpower and womanpower is adequate to the task that it is being
asked to fulfil?
(Con)
The noble and gallant Lord poses an important question. As far as
I am aware, there is not concern over levels of recruitment.
However, I do not have detailed information in front of me. I
shall inquire and if I can respond in more detail, I will do so.
