Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government when the Royal Navy will be able
to deploy a carrier with the full complement of 36 United
Kingdom-owned F35B in its air wing.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence () (Con)
My Lords, the noble Lord’s figure of 36 F35B as the optimum
deployment for a carrier is not a measurement recognised within
the MoD. Each Queen Elizabeth-class carrier has been designed for
the flexible usage necessary in a modern defence capability,
including transporting a mix of fixed-wing and rotary aircraft,
but the composition and size of an embarked air group in a
deploying carrier will be tailored to meet the operational
requirement.
(Lab)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her Answer. I was very
heavily involved in getting the aircraft carriers, and one of the
bases for their size and scale was that they needed to carry 36
fast jets and be able to do operations over a three-day period.
That is why they ended up at that size. You need to do that if
you are going to be a hot-war situation, when they will do
serious damage to the Queen’s enemies and can look after
themselves. There is a war going on in Europe, and there could be
a world war. We do not have enough aircraft to fill the carriers
should we need to. In the defence review that is to be carried
out, which was referred to by the Secretary of State for Defence
two days ago, can the Minister ensure that it will look very
closely at making sure we have enough aircraft and, even more
fundamentally, enough pilots? The UK Military Flying Training
System is a disaster at the moment and we have too few fast-jet
pilots.
(Con)
I pay tribute to the noble Lord for his role at the time of
conceiving the two carriers, but that concept is now fairly
mature and life has moved on. As I have indicated, the MoD has
taken a view that we need flexibility. We need the capacity to be
sure that, depending on operational requirement, we have these
F35s, both land based and, if necessary, ship based, which is a
sensible proposition to advance. I remind the noble Lord that the
UK’s carrier strike group is a unique-value capability. The UK is
the only ally to contribute a formed maritime task group complete
with carrier-strike capability to NATO via the NATO readiness
initiative.
(Con)
My Lords, given that this hot war has been going on for six
months in Ukraine, can my noble friend reassure the House that we
have sufficient land forces, as well as naval and air forces, to
sustain an operation such as this for six months? Most people say
that we do not.
(Con)
I hesitate to contradict my noble friend; I know he poses his
question in very good faith. I would say to him that the role
that the British military has been playing in relation to Ukraine
is essentially one of support and advice, and of course, most
recently and importantly, of training within this country—a very
welcome facility for the armed forces of Ukraine. We also
maintain our necessary capability to protect the security and
defence of this country.
of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, for once the noble Lord, , focused on
helicopters and the air; I will focus on the sea. In the light of
the fact that HMS “Prince of Wales” had to come back to dock
because of technical issues and that earlier in the year all the
Type 45s were in dock because of various issues, does the
Minister feel that our naval capability is adequate, and what
focus will Her Majesty’s Government, with the new Prime Minister,
be putting on making sure that we are sufficiently resilient in
the naval sphere?
(Con)
On the HMS “Prince of Wales”, that has of course been a
regrettable development. I can confirm that the “Prince of Wales”
is alongside in Portsmouth and will proceed to Rosyth dry dock in
due course. In the meantime, HMS “Queen Elizabeth” has departed
to carry out duties with the United States. On the broader
question of the fleet, the noble Baroness will be aware that the
fleet has been a very important supporter of the carrier project.
Many of our ships were in attendance discharging duties. Most
recently, there have been ships in the Mediterranean escorting
Russian ships. I therefore reassure your Lordships that the fleet
is in a good state. What is exciting is the planned development
of the fleet, not just with Type 26 and Type 31 but now with Type
32 and Type 83 coming into scope.
(CB)
My Lords, the noble Baroness’s previous answer focused on the
size of one carrier air group on one carrier. Even when Lightning
numbers have been increased, the UK will still have only one air
group for two carriers—an average of half an air group per
carrier. The United States has an average of over one-and-a-half
air groups per carrier, because it recognises that only this will
enable it to maintain operational tempo. The Government have
shown great ambition for deployments of the carrier and carrier
air groups; will they recognise that if they are to sustain this
ambition into the future, they need to provide the necessary
resources to back it up?
(Con)
There are various situations where the United States and the
United Kingdom approach differently configurations of capability.
The noble and gallant Lord will be aware of the planned increase
of the F35B flight support in 2025, when it will go from 26 at
the moment up to 48. The ultimate plan is to increase it to 74.
That is exciting and should reassure noble Lords that there is
very robust capability.
(Lab Co-op)
My Lords, what is the cause of HMS “Prince of Wales” being taken
out of operation, who is responsible and when will it be fully
operational?
(Con)
I am unable to give any specific answers. The “Prince of Wales”
will need to make her way to Rosyth to go into dry dock. At this
stage, it is not known what the cause is; we know that the
problem is mechanical failure on the propeller, on the shaft and
the coupling, but what is causing the problem will become clearer
only once inspection can be carried out. I see the noble Lord is
shaking his head; I have huge admiration for him, but I did not
realise that naval architecture was part of his skillset.
(LD)
My Lords, with other members of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly,
I visited the Lockheed Martin factory in Dallas where the F35 is
built. In the course of that visit, I was subject to a large
number of questions as to precisely how many further aircraft the
United Kingdom proposed to buy. Once upon a time, the figure was
138—I doubt that is still current. Will the Minister take the
opportunity, as of today’s date, to give a definitive answer on
the number of this fifth-generation aircraft that the United
Kingdom Government are prepared to buy?
(Con)
As I indicated to the noble and gallant Lord, the current level
of F35s is 26; by 2025, there will be a further 22, bringing the
flight up to 48. The intention is to buy a further tranche of
additional F35B aircraft, which has been announced and will bring
the UK total fleet up to 74 aircraft.
(Con)
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, as the present
economic crisis was triggered, and indeed largely caused, by
Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, additional military expenditure,
especially in as far as it helps expedite the expulsion of
Russian troops from the territory of Ukraine, is part of dealing
with the economic crisis?
(Con)
As my noble friend will be aware, the integrated review
absolutely and sharply identified the principal threat as far as
the UK is concerned as being Russia. That has now manifested
itself in an ugly and defined shape. He will be aware that the
spending review accorded to the Ministry of Defence a
record-busting extra £24 billion over the course of this
Parliament. That is indicative of the Government’s commitment to
defence. Obviously, with the new Prime Minister and, I have to
say, a very determined Secretary of State for Defence, I am sure
that the future significance—as my noble friend has indicated—of
our defence capability will be constantly highlighted.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister can see from the number of questions that
people are really concerned to hear from the Government a firm
commitment that we will have a sufficient number of aircraft for
our aircraft carriers. That is why she has been pressed, and some
of the reassurance she has given to the House today is good. On
the use of the aircraft carriers, can she say a bit more about
the trials that are going on, about UAVs being used off the
carriers and where that has got to? What are the Government’s
objectives and plans with respect to that? Will it impact on the
numbers of F35Bs that are to be ordered? Also, more worryingly,
what will it mean for the way the aircraft carriers are
configured and will any changes be needed to accommodate
that?
(Con)
As the noble Lord will be aware, the F35 is a state-of-the-art
aircraft and we are very pleased to have them. We are very
pleased to be adding to our fleet and we look forward to these
additions. They are already armed with very sophisticated
weaponry, but the Royal Air Force intends to continue upgrading
them with the wider programme and to equip them with UK weapons,
which will include the UK-developed SPEAR Cap 3 and Meteor. To
augment their strike capability and to complement and, perhaps,
potentially replace some of the roles delivered by its crewed
helicopters, the Royal Navy is exploring options for a range of
uncrewed air systems.
