Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to put in
place a multi-professional strategy for the emergency services
concerning the attendance of ministers of religion at the scene
of situations involving serious injury.
The Minister of State, Home Office () (Con)
My Lords, a working group bringing together representatives from
policing and the Catholic Church has now concluded its
exploration on the issue of access to crime scenes for religious
ministers. Decisions regarding access in such situations remain
an operational matter. However, the College of Policing has now
published revised guidance on managing investigations, reflecting
those discussions and wider input. As a result of those changes,
we do not have any plans to pursue a multiprofessional
strategy.
(Con)
My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend and the Government on
taking action on this delicate matter, which came to prominent
attention at the time of the tragic murder of . I welcome the new guidance. It
recognises explicitly the convention rights of both the dying and
their families in these emergency crime scenes. But it remains,
as my noble friend says, entirely an operational decision for the
police. What mechanism is my noble friend going to put in place
to ensure that the revised guidance leads to a change in
practice?
(Con)
I thank my noble friend for his congratulations. At the moment I
am not subject to much congratulation, so I take it where I can
get it. I totally agree with him. It might seem like a small
step, but it is a huge step for many families who might have
found themselves in the same position as . Guidance is being distributed
to forces, and I know that forces were keen to have clarity on
what to do in such situations. Coming back to my first point, it
is of course an operational matter.
The Lord Speaker ()
My Lords, we have two virtual contributions. First, we will hear
from the noble Baroness, Lady Masham of Ilton.
(CB) [V]
My Lords, would the Minister agree that communication is vital?
Will there be a list of priests in each area, with telephone
numbers, who could be available if a priest were needed to give
the last rites in serious injury cases?
(Con)
I think that is a very interesting question. Obviously, it might
not be entirely predictable where priests might be in the case of
a serious incident, but it is certainly true that, in circulating
the guidance, police will now be far better informed about how to
go about these requests should they arise.
The Lord Speaker ()
My Lords, we have a virtual contribution from the noble Baroness,
Lady Harris of Richmond.
(LD) [V]
My Lords, I declare an interest as the former president of the
National Association of Chaplains to the Police, which I helped
to establish over 30 years ago. There were then only two or three
chaplains in the whole country; now there are almost 500, most of
whom are volunteers, who do a superb job helping and supporting
the police service. Will the Minister ensure that Police
Chaplaincy UK is fully supported by the Government and is soon, I
hope, enshrined into the police covenant?
(Con)
I do not think there is any doubt that the police chaplaincy
service is fully supported by the Government. It provides a vital
service at critical times to people in need. I cannot say further
than that, but what I will say to the noble Baroness—and I
congratulate her on the work she does —is that the Government
fully support the service.
My Lords, this is a delicate area, especially when we are dealing
with crime scenes or potential crime scenes. Nevertheless, do Her
Majesty’s Government have any plans to ensure how this
information will be rolled out in training people who are going
to be in charge of these scenes? Is there going to be any
monitoring to ensure that this is available? The sacrament of the
last rites is a fundamental religious principle for many people.
Can we have some assurance that this is going to be
monitored?
(Con)
I am sure it will be monitored, for the very reason that we need
to be very clear that the police should be able to do the job
that they have to do at the scenes of what might be quite
critical incidents. They need to have the freedom to make those
judgments but also be mindful of the wishes of people who might
want to have a priest or religious leader with them at the time
of critical illness or nearing death. I say to the right reverend
Prelate that there is certainly further learning to be done on
this, but I think this is a very welcome step forward.
(Con)
My Lords, has thought been given to arranging for all of us to
carry something similar to a kidney donor card in this context?
One of the saddest aspects of the appalling murder of Sir David
was that he was denied the last rites. He was a devout Roman
Catholic; he would have expected to have them. If we could have a
degree of co-ordination, so that all of us, if we wished, could
carry such a card, perhaps that could be of some help.
(Con)
I will certainly take that suggestion back.
(Lab)
My Lords, last month, as the Minister said, the College of
Policing updated its guidelines to allow for the attendance of
ministers of religion at the scene of a crime where appropriate,
following a collaborative effort led by the Metropolitan Police
and the Archbishop of Southwark. What steps will the Government
be taking to review this decision and ensure that there are no
unintended consequences of this welcome step? I note that a
number of other questions from noble Lords have been about
reviewing this decision and monitoring it to ensure that it is
properly implemented.
(Con)
The noble Lord and other Members of the House are absolutely
right. We do not want any unintended consequences from this
guidance—which has been developed very quickly, I might say—such
as contamination of a scene, which might impede a criminal
investigation. As with all things that we do, we will review
this, and I am very happy to come back to the House in future
months and see how it is working.
