Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to
facilitate trains to the United Kingdom for refugees fleeing from
Ukraine.
(Con)
My Lords, the Government have focused on ensuring that Ukrainians
can access the right legal routes to come to the UK and have no
plans to facilitate travel or transport. The Government have put
in place a generous humanitarian offer to Ukrainians fleeing the
devastating invasion of their country. That includes introducing
two new schemes: the Ukrainian family scheme and, for those
without family links to UK, the Homes for Ukraine scheme
explained by my right honourable friend yesterday. Noble Lords will
have received a letter explaining that scheme in some detail.
(Lab)
I refer noble Lords to my entry in the register. The Minister
will be aware that something like 3 million people have now fled
Ukraine, mostly to the west, I think. The Prime Minister offered
200,000 people to come here and 4,000, I believe, have already
been given visas; that was before Mr Gove’s welcome announcement.
Does the Minister have any idea how the people are going to get
here? On the continent, European Union Governments and the
railways are offering free travel anywhere. Some operators are
putting on special trains. Will the Government do the same here
or are they going to kick everybody out at Calais and make them
pay for the joy of coming here through the tunnel or going on a
ferry? I hope the Minister has thought this through, because with
the numbers coming up it is going to be a major problem that
needs planning now.
(Con)
My Lords, I accept the premise of the noble Lord’s Question, of
course, but I refer him to the fact that we have just witnessed
the introduction of my new noble friend of Watford. He is going to
ensure that the measures that are taken are co-ordinated across
government, and I am sure that that will be part of his
brief.
(Con)
My Lords, I spent part of last week on the Polish/Ukrainian
border and I was very struck by how many volunteers from Poland
and the rest of Europe were transporting people to wherever they
wanted to go. It was a kind of open-source transport, way better
than any Government could have managed because it was all done by
volunteers. It was a very humbling and awe-inspiring thing to
see. But I was also struck by the fact that very few of the
people I spoke to had any plans to come to the United Kingdom.
They either wanted to go to where they had friends or relatives
or, if they did not, they wanted to stay near the place where
they had left their men behind. Will my noble friend the Minister
accept that, whatever faults there have been with our Home
Office—and I am the first to criticise its lamentable
failures—the issue is not one of transportation, which has been
laid on amply.
(Con)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that contribution. Of
course, I agree. A point that has been made consistently
throughout this crisis is that people, generally speaking, want
to stay as close to their menfolk as possible—and who can blame
them for that?
(CB)
My Lords, will the noble Lord take the opportunity to pay tribute
to the brave Ukrainian train drivers and crew who have evacuated
2 million people since the war began on 24 February, even while
their trains, their railway lines and their stations have been
bombed by Putin’s planes and artillery, intent on destroying
refugee routes? Will he note that two days ago a train leaving
Donetsk was bombed, killing the conductor and injuring a woman,
and was hit just before it was due to collect 100 children from
the nearby railway station to evacuate them? Are the noble Lord
and the Government collecting the evidence of such incidents to
ensure that those responsible for these war crimes will
ultimately be brought to the Hague and tried for the things that
they have done?
(Con)
I absolutely agree with my friend, if I may say that: the noble
Lord, Lord Alton. The world’s Governments are collecting the
evidence, as has been made very plain. I salute the courage of
all those in Ukraine and, in particular, the train drivers to
which he refers. If I may, I would like to stray wildly from this
topic and single out another instance of courage: that of the
Russian TV producer Marina Ovsyannikova, which the world
witnessed yesterday. My thoughts—and I am sure those of all noble
Lords—are very much with her, and I am sure that President Putin
would like to know that the world is watching.
(Lab)
My Lords, I very much agree with the comment about the Russian TV
producer. She is a very brave woman indeed and I hope we will do
all we can to try to protect her at this distance. Whatever the
mode of travel that refugees fleeing Ukraine use, would it not be
better if we facilitated their journey by dropping the visa
requirement, as other European countries have done?
(Con)
My Lords, on the subject of visa waivers, the Prime Minister and
the Home Secretary have stated on numerous occasions that we will
not be issuing blanket visa waivers in response to the crisis.
Security and biometric checks are a fundamental part of our visa
process in order to keep people in this country safe. This is
consistent with our approach to the evacuation of Afghanistan. It
is vital to keep British citizens safe and the humanitarian visa
process that was announced yesterday will open the doors, but we
also need to ensure that we are helping those in genuine need. We
are already seeing people presenting false documents and claiming
to be Ukrainians. This is a fluid and fast-moving situation.
(LD)
My Lords, I want to ask for help for Ukrainian refugees once they
arrive here. Will the Minister undertake to discuss with the
Department for Transport the provision of free travel from the
point of arrival to the place where they are going to settle
initially? Will he look beyond that to a scheme of free travel
for the first month or so, so that those folk can start to sort
out their lives once they arrive here?
(Con)
I will certainly commit to have those discussions, but I suggest
that my new noble friend of Watford will be
perfectly placed to do that. As noble Lords will know from the
letter that was sent by my right honourable friend yesterday, the financial
support that will be put in place is very generous.
(Con)
My Lords, the noble Lord opposite makes a valid point with regard
to rail travel across Europe, but it is difficult to see how the
British Government could secure the co-operation of the railway
companies in a co-ordinated fashion. Historically, one of the
most efficient ways to move refugees has been by air. Our
commercial airlines, such as British Airways, have leased
aircraft and the RAF has always been key to doing this. Can my
noble friend update us or liaise with the Department for
Transport and the Foreign Office to see what steps we are taking?
If we are moving women and children, and we know that we are
going to bring a huge proportion of them to the UK, the safest
and most efficient way would be to get them to various airfields
and bring them straight to the UK with a relatively short
journey.
(Con)
I thank my noble friend for that and of course I commend all
those organisations which have already offered support of the
sort she describes. I stress that we have had to remind carriers
that individuals with a free seat still need the relevant visas.
However, my noble friend makes some very welcome suggestions and
I will make sure that my noble friend is apprised of them.
The Lord
My Lords, a family is named in Moldova, Romania or Poland and has
been sponsored by me or someone else but does not have the money
for transportation. If it is all agreed on all sides, will the
Government help with transportation?
(Con)
I have just answered a question along those lines, so I am sorry
to disappoint the right reverend Prelate, but I cannot agree that
at this point. However, the scheme has been in operation for only
24 hours, so let it develop and I am sure these questions will be
dealt with.
(CB)
My Lords—
(Lab)
I think it is this side.
(Con)
I think it is the turn of the Cross Benches.
(CB)
The Statement indicated two stages of the humanitarian visa
scheme. The second one concerned the participation of community
groups in this country. Is the Minister able to give us any
indication of when the details of that scheme will be
released?
(Con)
I believe the details will be released this Friday, which I think
is 18 March. This scheme was designed in consultation with a
large number of NGOs and the like. Yesterday my right honourable
friend pointed out some of the names. They include the Refugee
Council, the Red Cross, the Sanctuary Foundation and others. I am
quite sure that will be in the second phase of the
announcement.
(Lab)
My Lords, we will get war criminals to The Hague only if we win.
The way to win wars is by having strong armed forces. Are we
going to put some money into our Armed Forces? Many countries in
Europe have realised that they must now do so, particularly
Germany, and the Australians have increased theirs by 80%,
whereas we seem to be doing nothing about the Armed Forces, who,
to me, seem rather important in wars.
(Con)
My Lords, the noble Lord is asking me to stray across
departmental briefs, which I am reluctant to do. However, from a
personal point of view, I might not disagree with him. I take
this opportunity to commend the work of 104 Brigade, which I was
reading about this morning. It is involved in theatre sustainment
and is currently based in Stuttgart. It is co-ordinating our
international military supplies and others.
