Ukraine: Territorial Integrity
(Loughborough) (Con)
1. What steps his Department is taking to help protect the
territorial integrity of Ukraine.(905584)
(High Peak) (Con)
2. What steps his Department is taking to help protect the
territorial integrity of Ukraine.(905585)
(Wantage) (Con)
8. What steps his Department is taking to help protect the
territorial integrity of Ukraine.(905591)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
May I, too, welcome the Speaker of the House of
Representatives—it was a delight to sit next to her at the G7
Speakers conference—and also Congressman , the Chair of the House Armed
Services Committee? The United States is truly our closest friend
and ally, and in times like these we need each other more than
ever.
The United Kingdom is unwavering in our support for Ukraine,
along with allies and partners. We are committed to defending
regional security. We have long supported Ukraine’s defence
capability, as well as regularly exercising with its armed forces
and via defence engagement channels. We must not allow Russia’s
destabilising behaviour to influence the territorial integrity of
any other sovereign state. The UK remains steadfast in its
support for Ukraine.
I thank my right hon. Friend for the call he held for MPs last
week, during recess, following his trip to Moscow to meet his
Russian counterpart. Could he expand on the value of that visit,
and does this mean that defence engagement with Russia has been
re-energised?
Mr Wallace
Diplomacy is, we feel, the only way out of this crisis. We are
working through NATO and the Organisation for Security and
Co-operation in Europe, but Russia must uphold the international
commitments it freely entered into and respect Ukraine’s
sovereignty. Dialogue plays a full part in the United Kingdom and
allied approach to mitigate mutual risk and enable both sides to
discuss the full range of security issues, including where we
differ.
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his answer a few
moments ago, and for his leadership in ensuring that both
deterrence and diplomacy are used to stand up for the sovereignty
of the people of Ukraine. Given the reports of thousands of
civilians being taken from their homes and taken to Russia as
part of forced evacuations—a clear breach of article 49 of the
Geneva convention—can I ask the Secretary of State what
discussions he and colleagues across Government have had about
any future role for courts, including the International Criminal
Court? It is vital that perpetrators know that they will be held
to account for their actions in future.
Mr Wallace
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The ICC obviously only has
effect on the many members who are signed up to the treaties, and
not every state is; the United Kingdom is, however. I think,
fundamentally, this is about international law, and whether
Russia respects international law and the previous commitments it
has made to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine. If it fails to
respect that international law, the international community will
see it for what it is.
A few weeks ago, my right hon. Friend set out the defensive
equipment that the UK is providing to the Ukrainian military.
Since that time, there has been considerable additional build-up
on its borders, so can I ask my right hon. Friend what plans he
has to provide further equipment to the Ukrainian military?
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend makes the important point that we have stood by
our friends in Ukraine and, alongside the United States and other
countries such as Canada and some of the Baltic states, provided
lethal aid, as we call it. It is, however, important to recognise
that, in this timeframe, there is only so much that can be
deployed effectively. We will, however, keep everything under
review, and it is important that we help people defend
themselves.
(Barnsley Central) (Lab)
For a decade, Russia has targeted Ukraine with cyber-attacks to
damage its economy, undermine its democracy and terrify its
people. In recent weeks, those attacks have grown both in
magnitude and frequency. Can the Secretary of State outline what
the UK is doing to assist Ukraine in protecting its critical
national infrastructure from the current onslaught of Russian
cyber-aggression?
Mr Wallace
Over the last few years we have been actively engaged in helping
Ukraine both internally and externally across its whole
government. Indeed, when I was Security Minister we were engaged
there and I visited on two occasions for exactly that purpose.
Currently the National Cyber Security Centre is involved in
giving advice and support alongside our international allies to
make sure Ukraine’s resilience is strengthened against the
Russian playbook, as the hon. Gentleman rightly says.
(Huddersfield)
(Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State for Defence will know that I think he is a
breath of fresh air in the job, but I also know that he shares my
concern that we have been pushing down the numbers in our armed
forces consistently over recent years. Can he give me an answer
on this today: has the situation in Ukraine changed the mind of
the Government, and will they now build up our armed forces so we
can offer credible help to the poor people in Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
Our armed forces right now are providing support in covid, in the
channel, in eastern Europe, and in Ukraine and elsewhere. We are
currently running at about 78,000 for the strength of our Army,
and the hon. Gentleman will not have noticed, although he is
obviously in agreement with me, that we increased the original
commitment up an extra 500 from 72,500 to 73,000. I have always
said the size of our armed forces and defence budget should be
threat-led: if the threat changes we should always be prepared to
change it. At present, I am minded to stay where we are, but we
should also reflect that what we see in Ukraine is that our real
strength is our alliances: 30 countries in NATO is the strongest
way to achieve mass against a force such as Russia. That is why
NATO remains strong and united.
(Rhondda) (Lab)
It is very difficult to know what is going on in President
Putin’s mind. Does the Defence Secretary spot a difference
however between the perceptions of General Gerasimov and the
other generals about the wisdom or otherwise of an invasion of
Ukraine and those of the Kremlin? Secondly, given that President
Putin has stated that Ukrainians and Russians are the same
people, would it not be phenomenally hypocritical to launch an
attack on people he considers to be the same people?
Mr Wallace
I regret to say there was absolutely not a slither of difference
between the President and General Gerasimov and Minister Shoigu
when I met them a few weeks ago; they are some of his closest
advisers and supporters and it is clear that their vision of
Russia matches that of their President. The hon. Gentleman is
also right to point out that they claim the Ukrainians are their
brothers—in fact they are their “kin”, rather than brothers—to
launch attacks on people who were part of the Soviet Union for
decades together has a retrograde effect. As we know now,
Ukrainians who probably were not that bothered 10 years ago about
which way they faced are absolutely determined that they are
going to stand for Ukraine and fight for their freedom.
Mr Speaker
I call the Chair of the Defence Committee, .
(Bournemouth East) (Con)
May I join you, Mr Speaker, in welcoming our American friends to
the House of Commons today?
Last week I saw at first hand how UK and American efforts are
working hard to support our friends in Ukraine, so I commend both
Governments on their efforts, but I remain concerned that NATO,
the most formidable military alliance in the world, could have
collectively done more in previous months to deter an invasion
but chose to hide behind the fact that Ukraine is not a NATO
member. Yes, we have shored up our NATO flanks, but that still
leaves Ukraine exposed. Does the Secretary of State agree that
Ukrainian security is European security, and by committing
greater support to Ukraine we are trying to prevent a war rather
than start one? And with the threat of invasion imminent, may I
also call on the Secretary of State to provide more military
support to Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
I fully agree with my right hon. Friend that Ukraine is part of
Europe; Ukrainians consider themselves European, and it is
absolutely the case that the ripples of anything that happens in
Ukraine will be felt right across Europe whether it is in NATO or
not. NATO is not preventing individual countries from
strengthening Ukrainian security and capability through bilateral
arrangements: the United Kingdom has done it, and so too has
Sweden—it is not part of NATO but nevertheless stood up for its
values and stood side by side.
Mr Speaker
I call shadow the Secretary of State, .
(Wentworth and Dearne)
(Lab)
Thank you, Mr Speaker, and may I extend a warm Labour welcome to
the Speaker of the House of Representatives and her team this
afternoon?
The Government have Labour’s full support in assisting Ukraine in
confronting Russian aggression and pursuing diplomacy even at
this eleventh hour, and we also fully support moves to reinforce
the security of NATO allies, as the Labour leader and I told the
Secretary-General at NATO HQ earlier this month. However,
although the doubling of UK troops in Estonia is welcome it looks
like an overlap in rotation, not a reinforcement; for how long
will this double deployment last, and beyond the steps already
announced what more is the Secretary of State willing to do to
reinforce allies on NATO’s eastern flank?
Mr Wallace
I am grateful to the right hon. Member. Mr Speaker, may I make a
quick apology? There will be a statement on Ukraine after
questions, but the statement has not yet arrived with my
colleagues, or indeed with me, even though I did write it. There
we are—bureaucracy in action. I do apologise to the House.
As the right hon. Member said, the overlap on relief in place can
be there for as long as we like. We can keep it that way and we
can reconfigure. Indeed, one purpose of forward-basing our
armoured vehicles in Sennelager in Germany is to allow us that
flexibility, with the vehicles forward and the people
interchangeable. We will keep it under constant review. In
addition, we have sent up to 350 personnel into Poland to
exercise jointly and show bilateral strength, and 100 extra
personnel from the Royal Engineers Squadron are already in Poland
helping with the border fragility caused by the Belarusian
migration. In addition, at the end of March we have Exercise Cold
Response, which will involve 35,000-plus.
Whether or not President Putin gives the go-ahead to military
invasion, this unprecedented military intimidation is part of a
long pattern of aggression against western nations, including
attacks on British soil and against British institutions. Does
Ukraine not expose the flaws in the Government’s integrated
review of last year with its focus on the Indo-Pacific and its
plan to cut the British Army by another 10,000 soldiers? In the
light of the threats, will the Secretary of State halt any
further Army cuts and restore the highest defence priority to
Europe, the north Atlantic and the Arctic?
Mr Wallace
Contrary to the right hon. Member’s observation on the integrated
review, I think that it has been proved correct. First,
alliances—whether NATO, bilateral or trilateral, and whether in
the Pacific or Europe—are the most important way in which we can
defend ourselves. We are reinvesting in NATO and are now its
second biggest spender. Yes, troop numbers are scheduled to
reduce, but spending on defence is going up to a record amount,
and an extra £24 billion over the comprehensive spending review
period is not money to be sniffed at. The integrated review is
also a demonstration that, with further defence engagement and
investment in sub-threshold capabilities such as cyber through
the National Cyber Force among other areas, we can improve the
resilience of countries that get vulnerable to Russian
sub-threshold actions.
Mr Speaker
I call the Chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee,
.
(New Forest East) (Con)
What lessons have our Government drawn from the consequences for
Ukraine of its decision in 1994 unilaterally to give up all the
nuclear weapons that it had inherited from the Soviet Union in
return for assurances on a piece of paper?
Mr Wallace
That shows that we must ensure that the Budapest memorandum—the
signature between Russia and Ukraine in 1994—is stuck to. Russia
should honour all the treaties that it has signed as well as its
statements to ensure that mutual recognition of each other’s
security is upheld. If it does not do that, as my right hon.
Friend rightly says, that opens up all sorts of questions about
how much of Russia’s word we can trust. If we cannot trust its
word, I am afraid that it is a dangerous place to be in
Europe.
Mr Speaker
I call the SNP spokesperson, Stuart Malcolm McDonald.
(Glasgow South)
(SNP)
On behalf of the Scottish National party, I welcome Speaker
Pelosi and the American delegation to the Chamber. I also
congratulate Team GB and yes, in particular, that fantastic
curling team that so many of us have been enjoying in recent
days.
As the Defence Secretary knows, we have supported the
Government’s actions in helping Ukraine to defend itself against
its neighbouring aggressor. Indeed, the Government’s actions in
giving military support are an act against war. However, during
my visit to the Ukrainian capital a couple of weeks ago, I heard
concerns at Government and parliamentary level about them still
missing some support that I understand they had discussed with
his Department. Will he assure us that those discussions are
ongoing or give us an update?
Mr Wallace
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. On his comments about the
winter Olympics, I have one of only two English curling rinks at
Barton Grange in my constituency. I look forward to a Scots
abroad event.
We are open to all sorts of suggestions. I speak regularly to my
defence counterpart in Ukraine, and it is incredibly important
that, should we get through this with a diplomatic solution, we
continue to help support Ukraine’s resilience both in capacity
building and training and in nation building to ensure that it is
a strong and secure state.
I am grateful for that answer. I may be jumping the gun
slightly—I suspect the Secretary of State might come to this in
his statement after questions—but one thing we were asked about a
lot there was the new grouping between Ukraine, Poland and the
United Kingdom. The detail on that is not quite out there just
yet. Will he update the House on exactly what the new grouping
hopes to achieve? Can he give an assurance that it will
complement the work of other allies, rather than overlapping
it?
Mr Wallace
We are working through those details right now and, as soon as I
can, I will update the hon. Gentleman and the House. It is
incredibly important we recognise that Ukraine borders a number
of major NATO countries that will feel the direct consequence of
an invasion. It is also important that President Putin’s view of
many of those countries, which he himself has written down in
previous essays, could continue should he be successful in
Ukraine. It is therefore really important that the UK plays a
strong role in reassurance not only of NATO countries, but of
other friends such as Sweden and Finland.
Tackling Illegal Migration
(Leigh) (Con)
3. What steps his Department is taking to support the Home Office
to tackle illegal migration. (905586)
The Minister for the Armed Forces ()
Defence primacy in the English channel, under Operation Isotrope,
will seek to prevent the arrival of small boats on their own
terms in the UK, while ensuring the safety of life at sea. We are
working closely with the Home Office and others to deliver that
outcome.
Would my hon. Friend express his thanks to those brave armed
forces personnel currently supporting UK Border Force in the
important work it is doing in the channel?
I would, and it is an opportunity to remark on the fact that,
whether at home supporting the work of Border Force in the
channel and with defence personnel still involved in the response
to the pandemic, or overseas as we are seeing in the news every
day at the moment, our nation’s armed forces are available at all
times to do whatever is required to keep this country safe and
secure.
(North Durham) (Lab)
On the radio last week, the Minister said that to undertake
Operation Isotrope the Ministry of Defence will have to acquire
new boats. Will he give an assurance to the House that they will
be procured in the UK and not follow the example of the Home
Office, which has, to date, purchased such equipment from
Holland?
The right hon. Gentleman refers to an interview in which I
mentioned that they may be leased, rather than procured. As I
went on to explain in that interview, there are a number of
different platform types that will have different degrees of
relevance and utility in the channel, all of which are under
consideration to ensure that the right balance of platforms is
available for what will be a very tricky task.
(Wellingborough) (Con)
Would that not all be unnecessary if the French just controlled
their own border? Our forces could then be redeployed, not
protecting things in the channel. Are the French not at
fault?
In the interests of bonhomie I will refrain from using such
forthright language, but my hon. Friend certainly has a
point.
(Barnsley East) (Lab)
In the last two years, the number of migrants making dangerous
channel crossings has tripled, with the Home Secretary failing to
tackle people smugglers. Now the Navy has been called in. Will
the Minister clearly outline the Navy’s role and explain why the
Ministry of Defence is being sidelined in discussions with our
French counterparts?
The role of the Royal Navy, as we said in the urgent question a
few weeks’ ago, is principally in the control and co-ordination
of a wide range of Government assets that we would argue are, at
the moment, not brought to bear in the most coherent way towards
the task at hand. The Royal Navy is looking at that and
augmenting it with some Royal Navy platforms, both ships and
surveillance and reconnaissance platforms. It is important to
note, however, that most Royal Navy platforms do not have the
outboard height required to be meaningfully part of any
interdiction operations in the channel, so principally it is a
command and control co-ordination exercise. If there are extra
assets we can bring, we will.
Mr Speaker
I call . Not here. I call .
Helicopter Manufacturing and Supply Chains
(Easington) (Lab)
6. What steps his Department is taking to help ensure the
resilience of the helicopter supply chain in the UK. (905589)
(City of Chester)
(Lab)
17. What steps his Department is taking to help ensure the
resilience of helicopter (a) manufacturing and (b) supply chains
in the UK. (905601)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
We recognise the need to manage risk and ensure resilience in our
manufacturing and supply chains, including rotary wing. Through
past and current investment in rotary wing capabilities,
including Wildcat and Apache, and upgrades to Merlin and Chinook,
the UK industrial base remains well placed to support existing
and future helicopter platforms, and continues to be a market of
great interest to our industrial partners.
I thank the Minister for that response and I declare an interest
as chair of the Unite group of Labour MPs in Parliament. Further
to my Defence question of 15 November, when I asked the Minister
what steps his Department was taking to ensure the resilience of
the helicopter supply chain in the UK, will he now assure the
House that, whoever wins the contract, the new Puma-replacement
helicopters will be both manufactured and assembled here in the
United Kingdom?
As we and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State have said,
the competition for the new medium helicopter contract, to which
I believe the hon. Gentleman refers, will be launched very
shortly. Given the skills and capabilities in this country and
the nature of that competition, I am confident that a very
substantial amount of benefit will flow to the UK as a result of
that procurement.
I also declare an interest and I echo the words of my hon. Friend
the Member for Easington (). We do not want to get into
another situation like the one with the fleet solid support
ships. Will the Government ensure that the value to the UK of
placing the contracts with UK suppliers and UK manufacturers is
included and priced into the deal and the contract?
The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. It is absolutely critical
that we ensure that the social value associated with the contract
is fully and fairly reflected in the tendering process. He has my
assurance that we will do that and, as I said, it will not be
long before he will be able to see more on that subject.
(North Wiltshire) (Con)
I entirely agree with others who have spoken about the importance
of British manufacturers producing these things, but we have a
very strong relationship with the United States of America and I
welcome the fact that we have ordered 50 new Apache attack
helicopters and are upgrading our Chinooks. Does the Minister
acknowledge, however, that Boeing UK is now the fourth or fifth
largest supplier to the MOD and that, as a British manufacturer,
it is hoping to export goods—the new aeroplanes—to America
soon?
It is indeed, and my hon. Friend is absolutely right that Boeing
is a strategic partner of ours. It also invests heavily, and I
pay tribute to its work to enhance apprenticeships and its
academic work, including in the far north of Scotland from our
base at Lossie. It is an important strategic partner that brings
value to the UK.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
I am going to do something quite surprising and agree with the
Secretary of State when he says, of the helicopter competition,
that he does not want a “here today, gone tomorrow” supplier.
What are the Minister’s plans to ensure that there is long-term
investment in the UK helicopter industry, particularly in
high-value engineering design and manufacturing jobs;
apprenticeships; and enduring skills development in this vital
industry?
On the NMH, to which the hon. Gentleman refers, it is likely,
given the timescale—we want to have the helicopters in service in
2025 or as close to that as possible—that we will be seeking to
procure an existing platform. However, that absolutely does not
gainsay the fact that we will want to see real social value
created in terms of engineering skills and capabilities in this
country. That will be part of the competition.
Dalgety Bay: Radioactive Material
(Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)
(Alba)
7. What recent discussions officials in his Department have had
with representatives of the Scottish Environment Protection
Agency on radioactive material detected at Dalgety Bay following
the disposal of aircraft in that area after the second world war.
(905590)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
I am delighted that we are en route to the complete remediation
of Dalgety Bay. Environmental sensitivities inevitably have a
significant impact on the length of time that it is taking to
complete the project. MOD and SEPA officials last met formally on
24 November. SEPA also has representatives on site continually to
monitor the work that is being undertaken.
I give the apologies of my hon. Friend the Member for East
Lothian (), who has been turfed off a
train on his way to the House.
I thank the Minister for that answer. The people of Dalgety Bay
in my Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath constituency have had to put up
with radioactive waste on the shore since the second world war.
Thanks to the dogged determination of my predecessor, , and my persistence, work on
that began last May. However, the Ministry promised me and the
community that it would keep us updated on progress, but we have
had nothing from the MOD since May 2021. Will the Minister say
why, and make sure that an update is forthcoming?
I can give the hon. Gentleman an update now. As I think he is
aware, we assumed that it would take two seasons to do the
complete remediation. I very much hoped that it would therefore
have been concluded by the autumn of this year. He is aware of
the issues with birdlife that ensure that there is only a set
period of time in which we can work. We applied for, and got,
extended time to work last summer, and we will apply again for
extended time this year. I hope that that will be sufficient, but
I have to share with the hon. Gentleman that work may not be
concluded until 2023. I hope that that will not be the case, but
it is possible; we are keeping it under review. I will write
further to the hon. Gentleman.
Armed Forces: Diversity and Inclusion
(Wolverhampton North East)
(Con)
9. What steps his Department is taking to improve diversity and
inclusion in the armed forces. (905592)
The Minister for Defence People and Veterans ()
The Ministry of Defence puts diversity and inclusion at the heart
of everything we do: we regard it as mission-critical. Our
ambition is a 30% inflow of women by 2030. Army recruitment for
ethnic minorities is currently at 11.7%. We know that we must
build a diverse force to tackle the diverse threats that our
nation faces.
Improving recruitment in areas such as Wolverhampton would really
help diversity in the armed forces. Wolverhampton also has a very
high rate of unemployment. What more can the Department do to
ensure that every young person in Wolverhampton is aware of the
fantastic opportunities open to them in the armed forces?
I should put it on record that Wolverhampton has a long and very
proud tradition of people in the armed forces. What we can do is
point out that recruiting is undergoing constant improvement. I
invite my hon. Friend to visit her Army recruitment centre on
Queen Street in Wolverhampton to celebrate the amazing careers on
offer for young people.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Minister.
(Barnsley East) (Lab)
Improving diversity and inclusion in the armed forces must also
mean supporting disabled veterans. The veterans mobility fund
closed last year, passing the financial burden to charities such
as Help for Heroes to fund essential mobility equipment that is
not available on the NHS. As forces charities face funding
pressures, does the Minister feel that that decision is fair?
Of course we face constant pressures, but I should put it on
record that we have doubled the amount that normally goes into
supporting our magnificent armed forces charities. It is only
right that we work in partnership with those magnificent
people.
(Bracknell) (Con)
On inclusion, the Defence Secretary will be aware that several
parliamentarians have been lobbying hard, but privately, to get
visa fees abated or preferably culled completely as a function of
service. Please may I ask where we are with the consultation and
with any announcements that may be forthcoming?
We acknowledge with gratitude my hon. Friend’s active role in the
debate. He should wait for news this week on that issue.
Women in the Armed Forces
(Rutherglen and Hamilton
West) (Ind)
10. What recent assessment he has made of the experience of women
employed in the armed forces. (905593)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
Women are an integral part of our armed forces and have thriving
careers. The Defence Committee’s report on women in the armed
forces made a number of important recommendations. Having tested
them, the Ministry of Defence’s own service women’s network has
adopted almost all the recommendations and in many cases has
taken them further.
Women serving in the forces alongside their husband or partner
have lost out on their military accommodation when they have
reported incidents of domestic violence, because the Army has
prioritised the needs of the male soldier. Women have also missed
out on promotions or career opportunities as a result of
reporting. What steps is the Secretary of State taking to ensure
that victims of domestic violence are not further victimised by
armed forces processes when they are brave enough to make a
report against a serving soldier?
Mr Wallace
I am saddened to hear what the hon. Lady says. I would be
delighted to meet her to discuss it; if she brings along the
detail of the examples to which she refers, I will be very happy
to sort this. No one should be disadvantaged for making a service
complaint, or indeed a criminal complaint, whether they are male
or female. We do not in any way tolerate domestic abuse or sexual
abuse in the armed forces.
(Gloucester) (Con)
May I pay tribute to the appointment and work of our defence
attaché in Vietnam, Bea Walcot, who may be taking up another
south-east Asian appointment before long? Does the Defence
Secretary agree that there is huge potential for women in such
roles, which combine diplomacy and procurement as well as armed
forces expertise?
Mr Wallace
Some of our best ambassadors are women, and I hope that soon even
more of our best defence attachés will be women. Defence
engagement is an extremely important part of defence. The defence
Command Paper committed to investing in that network, not only
with better infrastructure, but with better training and support.
She does a fantastic job. I would like to see many more; I also
think that it is a great career opportunity.
Small Boat Channel Crossings
(Lewisham West and Penge)
(Lab)
11. What role the Royal Navy has in tackling migrants crossing
the channel in small boats. (905594)
The Minister for the Armed Forces ()
I refer the hon. Lady to my response to Question 3.
The Government have spent more than £200 million on deals with
the French authorities and £780,000 on two Navy vessels, and have
not intercepted a single boat. Now they are insisting on
push-back tactics, which the Navy has rightly said it will not
use. The human cost is harrowing. In November, 27 people,
including children, died when their boat sank. Instead of wasting
more taxpayers’ money on unworkable initiatives, will the
Minister finally back the solutions that will fix this
crisis—opening safe routes of passage, meaningfully engaging with
the French authorities, and implementing a proper plan to tackle
people smuggling?
I am not sure that those elements are mutually exclusive. I
absolutely agree with what the hon. Lady said at the end of her
question—her suggestions for a solution—but I think that the
measures she advocates must sit alongside a robust and resilient
effort in the channel to ensure that even when they are in place,
we are still able to protect our borders and stop people landing
here on their own terms.
UK-Australia Security and Defence Co-operation
(North Norfolk) (Con)
13. What steps his Department has taken to strengthen security
and defence co-operation with Australia. (905596)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
AUKUS is a generational commitment to the security of the
Indo-Pacific. Last month I agreed with my Australian counterpart
additional steps to deepen our bilateral co-operation in the
region, building on the deployment of two UK offshore patrol
vessels and facilitated by an enhanced British defence staff in
Canberra.
The AUKUS deal highlights the benefits of co-operation between
the Royal Navy and the Royal Australian Navy. The RAN’s first
boat, the HMAS AE1, was lost with all hands in 1914. In May this
year, the sacrifice of those who gave their lives then—and nearly
6,000 others in the service—will be commemorated with a
submariner memorial. More than half a million pounds has been
raised to fund it, under the guidance of one of my constituents
who is the project director. Will the Secretary of State join me
in thanking our submariners for all that they do in the
protection of our country, and will he attend the dedication if
he can?
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend has highlighted a very important part of our armed
forces. I pay tribute to the submariners who keep us safe 24
hours a day around these shores. There have been 50 years of the
continuous at-sea deterrent, and before that they played a strong
role in both defeating the Nazis and, indeed, ensuring that we
were protected. Few of us are privileged to know what they so
often do under those seas. I want to join my hon. Friend in
remembering those early submariners who, in 1914 and
subsequently, made the ultimate sacrifice, not only in the
service of their country but in pushing the boundaries to take us
to where we are today.
(Warley) (Lab)
It is encouraging that the AUKUS agreement has bipartisan support
in all three countries, but surely the Secretary of State will
accept that it has to be about more than submarines and the
military themselves. How are we going to co-operate to deal with
the pressing problem of supply chain resilience and security,
which is an increasingly weak point for our military
effectiveness and sustainability?
Mr Wallace
The right hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the
fragility in the submarine supply chain, which concerns not just
us but the United States, and indeed all those involved. These
are highly complex boats, and keeping them maintained and
ensuring that they are also a skill base is a real challenge for
us all. That is why we have invested in a record number of
apprentices, and have increased much of the necessary funding. As
the right hon. Gentleman suggests, AUKUS must be not only about
capacity-building and capability in themselves, but about how the
United Kingdom and the United States industrial base can assist,
support and develop those capabilities in Australia. It cannot be
done on its own; it has to be done with all of us.
Defence Space Strategy
(South Basildon and East
Thurrock) (Con)
14. What assessment his Department has made of the effectiveness
of the defence space strategy. (905597)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
Over and above the £5 billion already committed to satellite
communications, we are investing an additional £1.5 billion in
space capabilities. The defence space strategy sets out our focus
on intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, satellite
communications, space domain awareness and space commander
control. This clear strategic direction has been welcomed by
industry and allies alike.
Space, in all its guises, presents us with an unparalleled
opportunity to drive British science and technical innovation,
create well-paid and rewarding jobs, boost our economy, and above
all defend ourselves. Can my hon. Friend expand on what he has
said, and tell the House what the MOD is doing to ensure that we
deliver all those opportunities?
My hon. Friend is correct in every respect. That additional £1.5
billion of investment implies very significant space R&D and
the jobs, skills and expertise that go with it. It includes
investment in things such as ISTARI, our ISR programme, It also
includes innovation spending, as part of the £1.5 billion
package, and programmes such as Minerva. Through that investment,
we are not only ensuring that we meet the threats of the future,
but helping to build capability, expertise, skills and jobs that
will serve defence and the wider civil space programme.
Ukraine: Support for NATO Allies
(Kingston upon Hull West and
Hessle) (Lab)
15. What steps his Department is taking to support NATO allies in
response to the build-up of Russian troops and assets on the
border of Ukraine. (905599)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
The UK continues actively to support its allies on NATO’s eastern
front. The Prime Minister recently announced a further uplift of
UK Defence support to eastern allies, including doubling the
number of UK troops in Estonia, deploying more RAF aircraft to
southern Europe, and deploying HMS Trent and a Type 45 Destroyer
to the eastern Mediterranean.
I recognise the efforts being made by the French President to
ensure that we have a peace summit, and I pray that he is
successful. Unity with our allies matters now more than ever—a
point that I hope some Conservative Members will take into
account before making cheap populist swipes at our allies and
neighbours. What are the UK Government doing to ensure that we
have a united European and NATO strategy to demonstrate our
commitment to Ukraine and our deep desire for a diplomatic
solution?
Mr Wallace
All of us, including the French President, are signed up to the
NATO alliance—all 30 of us. Indeed, it was NATO that responded to
Russia’s draft treaty that it offered in December; we responded
in January. That is the common position that we are all bound to,
and in that position we will not reward aggression or compromise
on NATO’s open-door policy. We will stick together as an alliance
to defend the sovereign rights of countries and their right to
choose, irrespective of what they do to that choice.
Armed Forces Apprenticeships
(Harlow) (Con)
16. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for
Education on increasing apprenticeships in the armed forces.
(905600)
The Minister for Defence People and Veterans ()
We are proud that the armed forces are one of Britain’s biggest
providers of apprenticeships. Since 2014, we have enrolled more
than 96,000 apprentices, and there are around 21,000 apprentices
at any time. I was honoured recently to meet apprentices from
across all three services who are doing qualifications from level
2 all the way to degree courses.
I want to thank the Secretary of State and his team for the
dignity that they have shown in the recent affairs with Ukraine
and Russia.
The Ministry of Defence is doing a huge amount of work with
apprenticeships, which other Departments should follow. Harlow
has a remarkable cadet programme in the Navy, RAF and Army. Will
the Minister look at whether cadets who would like to stay on in
the armed forces can then progress into a military
apprenticeship, and will he come and visit the remarkable cadet
scheme in my constituency?
Of course all young people should be aware of the amazing
opportunities for apprenticeships and careers in the armed
forces. I would be honoured to visit my right hon. Friend’s
constituency to see that scheme at first hand. The bottom line is
that military service gives people skills for life.
(Caithness, Sutherland and
Easter Ross) (LD)
Several years ago, a young man came to see me. He was about to
leave school and he was as keen as mustard to join the armed
forces. However, he had been diagnosed as being on the spectrum,
and although I wrote to the then Defence Minister, he fell at the
first hurdle and could not join and have the career that he
wished for. Is the possibility of recruiting people who are on
the spectrum being considered? It could be fantastically useful
in terms of the cyber threat that we clearly face.
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We are actively
considering recruiting people with neurodiversity, because of
their capacity for working in the cyber sphere. I am pleased that
he has raised this issue, and I can confirm that we are actively
looking at it.
Army Reserve: Recruitment and Retention
(Gravesham) (Con)
18. What steps his Department is taking to improve (a)
recruitment and (b) retention in the officer corps of the Army
Reserve. (905602)
The Minister for Defence People and Veterans ()
The new Army Reserve under the future soldier programme will
improve recruitment and retention across the whole reserve force.
We are doing that by improving the offer and giving young
officers and reserve soldiers the opportunity to train and deploy
with regulars, globally and nationally.
Does my hon. Friend accept that reserve officers join in order to
have opportunities to deploy and train, commanding in formed
units? Why does the future soldier narrative prioritise
individual augmentation over deploying formed bodies for overseas
roles short of all-out war?
I agree with my hon. Friend that reserve officers seek to deploy
in formed units, and we are in agreement with that. That is why
it is in black and white in the future soldier programme. We
should not deny the opportunity for individuals, whether they are
officers or enlisted people, to deploy on operations or training
to gain valuable experience.
Eastern Europe: Support for NATO Allies
(Burnley) (Con)
19. What steps his Department is taking to support NATO allies in
eastern Europe. (905603)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
As I confirmed at the NATO Defence Ministers meeting last week,
we will double the number of UK troops stationed in Estonia and
deploy two Royal Navy ships to the eastern Mediterranean, and our
RAF fast jet deployment in southern Europe will be increased to
squadron strength. That comes on top of the deployment of 350
Royal Marines to Poland to support the Polish armed forces.
The current forward-deployed forces of the UK and NATO were put
in place in 2017, at a time when Russia was acting belligerently.
Circumstances have since moved on significantly, and Russia is
not just belligerent but openly hostile. It is supporting Belarus
with the weaponisation of migrants, as well as building up the
most significant military force since the second world war. Will
the Secretary of State therefore give more detail on the planning
in the Ministry of Defence and NATO should further reinforcements
be needed, and for any refugee crisis that might follow?
Mr Wallace
A few weeks ago, at a donor conference, the Supreme Allied
Commander Europe requested that members of the NATO alliance put
forward a range of forces—I listed some of them—and we are guided
by where he wishes to deploy them to provide either resilience,
reassurance or containment. NATO has a range of options that it
can deploy at times of crisis, such as graduated response plans,
and they will no doubt play in should Russia make the foolish
mistake of invading Ukraine.
Topical Questions
(Hastings and Rye)
(Con)
T2. If he will make a statement on his departmental
responsibilities.(905610)
The Secretary of State for Defence ( )
Despite current global events, the Ministry of Defence remains
firmly on course to deliver the biggest modernisation of our
armed forces. Today we published the “Defence Equipment Plan
2021-2031”, which sets out our plans to deliver against the
priorities we outlined in the integrated review last year. Backed
by a more than £24 billion spending increase over this four-year
spending period, the equipment plan sets out how military
capability will evolve to meet emerging threats. Defence
procurement will be at the cutting edge. This implies risk but,
through the defence and security industrial strategy and our
ambitious acquisition reform programme, we are determined to
deliver for defence and for the taxpayer.
Less than a couple of weeks ago, a boat ran aground close to Rye
harbour at low tide and 21 migrants disembarked and disappeared
on the run. It is reported that Border Force later turned up to
the village to inform locals that 16 of those migrants, without
identification, had been arrested. How can the MOD work with
Border Force and the Home Office to take control, defend and
protect our borders from migrants entering the UK—
Mr Speaker
Order. The hon. Lady knows that topical questions have to be
short and punchy. You cannot make full speeches on a topical
question.
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend highlights one of the big challenges in
controlling the channel. I reassure her that is exactly the
situation we are trying to deal with. We must ensure that we
intercept each vessel so that they cannot arrive in this country
on their own terms. Under Operation Isotrope, we are planning to
take an enhanced role in controlling cross-Government assets to
tackle such migration flows.
(Wentworth and Dearne)
(Lab)
Mali’s military rulers recently hired 1,000 Russian mercenaries,
and four days ago France announced the withdrawal of all of its
2,400 troops based in Mali to combat the growing threat from
Islamist terrorist groups. What changes will the Defence
Secretary now make to the 300-9 UK troops stationed in Mali?
Mr Wallace
The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to point out the
challenge with the French, as effectively the framework nation,
withdrawing from Mali and the woeful state of the Malian
Government’s relationship with the Wagner Group, which has put us
in a very difficult position.
The United Kingdom is obviously deployed in the UN
multidimensional integrated stabilisation mission in
Mali—MINUSMA—alongside the Germans and the Swedes, and we are now
reviewing our next steps. The United Kingdom is, of course,
committed to the UN effort as a good UN citizen, and we will do
what we can to help west Africa. The right hon. Gentleman is,
however, right to point out the corrosive and destabilising
influence of the Wagner Group, which raises many questions. We
will keep that under review and return to the House with more
details.
(New Forest East) (Con)
T5. We now know that the cold war is back with a vengeance. We
regularly spent between 4.5% and 5% of GDP on defence in the
closing stages of the cold war. Has the time come to set a higher
target than a bare 2%? Surely 3% should be a minimum.(905614)
Mr Wallace
I think I win the bet for predicting my right hon. Friend’s
question. It is absolutely clear, as I have always said, that our
defence budget and our defence disposition should be based on the
threat. If the threat changes, we should be perfectly open to
considering changes, and we will. I will certainly pray him in
aid if I make the case.
We should also recognise that the NATO alliance, collectively,
well outspends Russia. All 30 nations together spend hundreds of
billions of pounds on defence, way above what Russia spends. That
is the strength of the alliance, and it is why we need 30
members. That is why we can make a difference to Russia.
(Portsmouth South) (Lab)
T3. Following the cyber-attacks in Ukraine last week, how are the
Government strengthening cyber security at home in response to
growing threats and Russian aggression?(905611)
Mr Wallace
The national cyber-security strategy, which in effect started
under the last Labour Prime Minister, , has developed over the years,
with significant funding—I believe it was £19 billion in the 2010
Government—and established the National Cyber Security Centre.
Alongside GCHQ, that has made real step changes in improving our
cyber-security. We are, of course completely aware that Russia
plays across the global cyber-network and does not just focus on
Ukraine; we have already experienced a number of cyber-attacks
from Russia over the past few years. We stand ready to defend
against it and will continue to do so.
(South East Cornwall)
(Con)
T7. [R] As the proud mum of a Royal Navy officer, I have an
interest in defence matters. In Cornwall, we are very proud of
Spaceport Cornwall. Does my right hon. Friend see it having a
role to play as part of the defence space strategy?(905617)
The Minister for Defence Procurement ()
As my hon. Friend’s son will be well aware—
Mrs Murray
Daughter.
I do apologise. I am even more pleased that my hon. Friend’s
daughter graces the Royal Navy. She will know of the increasing
importance of space to all the armed forces, and I can assure her
that we are actively looking at supporting the wider Government
ambition to have private companies launch from the UK this
year.
(Barnsley Central) (Lab)
T4. Further to the question from the hon. Member for Bracknell
() on the Government’s
response on the immigration cost for armed forces personnel, it
is good to hear that the consultation response will be published,
but will the Minister confirm that he is working to lower the
proposed 12-year threshold so that the foreign and Commonwealth
community can actually benefit?(905612)
Mr Wallace
The hon. Gentleman does not have long to wait—he will find out on
Wednesday.
(Northampton South) (Con)
My constituent’s father is a former Afghan army officer who is in
hiding. He was not able to get here under the ARAP—Afghan
relocations and assistance policy—scheme. May I ask a defence
Minister to discuss this further?
The Minister for the Armed Forces ()
I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss this particular
case. However, he and colleagues from around the House will
appreciate, although I know this is a disappointment to many,
that ARAP was never a mechanism for rank and file members of the
Afghan national army to come to the UK.
(Denton and Reddish)
(Lab)
T8. The UK is now the only atomic nation with no official
recognition of or compensation for nuclear test veterans and
their families. Ahead of the 70th anniversary of the first
British nuclear test later this year, will Ministers now do the
right thing and give these veterans the recognition they
deserve?(905618)
Mr Wallace
I hear what the hon. Gentleman says and I absolutely recognise
that we are now the only country in this regard. The last
internal review was in December, and I have asked officials to go
back and look at that again.
(South Dorset) (Con)
My right hon. Friend said that the amount we spend on defence
depends on the threats that we face. May I remind him that we
cannot just conjure up battalions? May I also, like two Members
from the Opposition Benches, please ask him to reverse this
disastrous decision to reduce our Army by 10,000?
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend has often campaigned on the size of the Army.
First and foremost, we have to recognise that modernisation is an
important aspect of making sure that our armed forces are fit to
fight. There is simply no point in having mass in a hollow armed
forces. For too long, we had that out of step: either we had lots
of people and inadequate equipment, or we had expensive equipment
and not enough people. This defence Command Paper put that in
balance, which means that it can deliver what it says on the tin
and it does not let those people down.
Mr (East Londonderry)
(DUP)
May I thank you, Mr Speaker, for the tribute paid to our dear
friend and colleague , who we shall all
miss terribly? On a lighter note, may I ask the Secretary of
State whether he would join me at the Northern Ireland airshow in
my constituency, where all the armed services put on a
magnificent display each year, in trying to attract young people
to a very rewarding career in the armed services?
Mr Wallace
I would be delighted to do so.
(Wrexham) (Con)
With the armed forces parliamentary scheme, I have spent some
time with the Commando littoral response force in the high
Arctic, joining in their preparations for the forthcoming
exercise “Cold Response”, which will involve 35,000 troops from
28 nations. Does my right hon. Friend agree that not only is that
a show of NATO strength and unity, but the Royal Marine Commandos
have shown themselves to be a valuable commodity, with skills in
mountain, Arctic and amphibious warfare?
First, I am grateful to my hon. Friend and to all colleagues who
are part of the AFPS, which is a fantastic thing.
My hon. Friend is absolutely right that our involvement in that
exercise is a demonstration of both how the Royal Marines are
transforming and our commitment to NATO. It also shows the
integrated review coming to life, because the littoral response
groups in the High North and in the western Indian ocean are two
of the key new innovations of that paper.
(York Central)
(Lab/Co-op)
The Ministry of Defence leases 37,500 homes from Annington Homes,
of which 7,230 are vacant, while 12,000 Afghan refugees have been
in bridging hotels for more than six months. This just cannot be
right, so what is the Minister going to do about it?
The Minister for Defence People and Veterans ()
We have made 550 service family accommodation units available.
All questions on this issue should be directed at local
authorities, but we are doing everything we can to ensure that
Afghan families are settled in the way they deserve.
(Watford) (Con)
Last week, I had the pleasure of visiting Watford’s
ex-servicemen’s club, where I met the fantastic staff during an
evening of darts. While I was there, I met the founder of the
Official Minds at War charity, Norman Mcguigan, who works closely
with local resident Liz Burns and many great volunteers
throughout the country to provide mental health support for
veterans. Good jobs help to deliver good mental health; what is
being done to ensure that service personnel can take up jobs in
our thriving defence industry?
rose—
We are fighting over the privilege of answering my hon. Friend’s
question. As my the Minister for Defence People and Veterans, my
hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot () said earlier, there are
21,000 apprentices in the armed forces at any one time. Also, we
are committed to lifelong learning: for five years after people
leave the services, they can apply for and get support to
retrain. It is a great opportunity for our service personnel, who
have terrific skills.
(Angus) (SNP)
Does the Secretary of State agree that the same esteem, respect
and co-operation that the UK enjoys with Australia will be a
feature of UK-Scottish relations on matters related to defence
and security after independence? Crucially, though, as an
independent state Scotland will, unlike today, have a seat at the
table and a role in the decision-making process.
Mr Wallace
This year, the SNP is in favour of NATO membership, but who knows
where it will be at the end of it? If SNP Members want to be part
of NATO, they will have to spend 2% of GDP. Given that they will
be almost bankrupt, I doubt they will be able to spend
anything.
(Ynys Môn) (Con)
Support for defence jobs is important, but so is support for
veterans. Does the Minister agree that the armed forces charity
SSAFA—the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Families
Association—which does a particularly excellent job on Anglesey,
plays a vital role in the support of veterans?
I do agree that SSAFA does an absolutely magnificent job, as I
have seen at first hand in Aldershot. I put on the record my
thanks for everything that my hon. Friend does for veterans in
her constituency.
(Glasgow North West)
(SNP)
As we have already heard, the nuclear test veterans are a group
of elderly individuals and, sadly, many of them have already
passed away. It is in the Secretary of State’s power to award
medals at this point. Will he do so?
Mr Wallace
I am sorry to inform the hon. Lady that it is not in my power to
award medals.
(Lichfield) (Con)
Last year, the Royal Air Force took part in Exercise Blue Flag in
Israel. What lessons did the Royal Air Force learn from working
with the Israeli air force?
Mr Wallace
I cannot say right now, but I can say that it is about readiness:
we must be ready because we never know where the threat comes
from.
(Huddersfield)
(Lab/Co-op)
Will the Secretary of State promise me that he will listen to the
Reith lectures—especially the bits about artificial intelligence
and robotic warfare—and then think about our defence plans?
Mr Wallace
Yes.
(North Wiltshire) (Con)
Like my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (), I very much welcome the
fact that the MOD is taking the Arctic and the threat from Russia
along its 20,000-mile border in the Arctic very seriously indeed,
as is NATO. It has long been promised that the MOD will produce a
policy paper; when is it due to be printed, published or
produced?
Mr Wallace
It will be produced in March, when hopefully I will visit Cold
Response. When I came into office, I discovered that it was one
of those classic Government strategies that had absolutely
nothing in it other than a nice bit of narrative. I said I would
not launch it until it contained some solid offers and
deliverables, I paused it and we rewrote it, and it will be
launched.
(Cumbernauld, Kilsyth
and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP)
What discussions has the Secretary of State had with allies about
the numbers of people who might seek refugee protection in the
event of a Russian invasion of Ukraine? How is he going to go
about ensuring that there is an appropriate and co-ordinated
humanitarian response?
That is an important and perhaps very likely consequence of what
may happen in Ukraine. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that
the Ministry of Defence would not necessarily lead on such a
response, but obviously we stand by to support other Government
Departments in their doing so.
