Asked by
To ask the Senior Deputy Speaker what progress has been made with
enabling electric vehicles to be charged on the Parliamentary
Estate; and how many electric vehicle charging points are
available to members of the House of Lords.
(Lab)
My Lords, despite what the Order Paper says, clearly, I am not
the Senior Deputy Speaker. The noble Lord, Lord Gardiner, has
asked me to reply as chair of the Services Committee— lucky
me.
The Services Committee has considered proposals for electric
vehicle charging points to be installed in the House of Lords’
part of the estate. Unfortunately, the scheme we considered did
not offer value for money and, regrettably, there are currently
no charging points for Members in the House of Lords’ part of the
estate. However, we are totally committed to finding a solution
and will continue to look at how to provide Members with access
to charging facilities.
(Con)
My Lords, I sympathise with the noble Lord, , who has the unfortunate task
of answering for a bureaucracy straight out of “Yes Minister”. I
may have the answer: many of us in this House have been arguing
for this for four years, during which time the costs have risen
by 700%. Noble Lords can imagine how surprised I was to discover
that, at Christmas, eight charging points were put in Speaker’s
Court for ministerial cars. I was even more surprised to find
that the government car service will not allow them to use them,
as of yet. Would it not be possible for your Lordships’ House to
use these, and for the ban on our using the underground car park
to be lifted, which I understand is in force to allow equipment
for restoration of the House to be stored on two floors?
(Lab)
I think the noble Lord is ready to organise a raiding party. He
raises an important point. The director of facilities contacted
the Speaker’s Office about the charging points in Speaker’s
Court, and it responded by saying, “There are four charging posts
providing charging for eight cars. Access to the points is
currently managed by Mr Speaker’s Office. The points are intended
for use by Mr Speaker, ministerial cars and visiting
dignitaries.” I say to the noble Lord that I intend to raise this
more formally and seek a full dialogue with the Speaker’s Office.
If we can find a way forward to help noble Lords in this House to
access that facility, we will certainly do so.
(Lab)
My Lords, is it not a poor example to the country as a whole that
here at Westminster we do not have the facility to charge
electric vehicles? We are encouraging the whole country to buy
electric vehicles and setting targets for the reduction of
carbon, yet here at Westminster we have no facilities, other than
for those my noble friend mentioned. I apologise for asking him a
difficult question, since he is a good colleague and friend—which
I cannot say about many Ministers—but, here of all places, where
we should be setting an example, we are signally failing to do
so.
(Lab)
I could not agree more with the noble Lord. We passed the
legislation; we should be setting an example. However, in this
case of the scheme we recently looked at, we must consider value
for money. We could not justify going ahead with the scheme at
that time because we could not justify the cost of it to this
House or to the wider public whose money we are spending. That
was the scheme we recently turned down. We will continue to look
at opportunities and ways of finding provision for your Lordships
to charge their cars on this site. It is a priority. We have to
be seen to be doing what we are asking others to do.
(LD)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, referred to the two EV
charging points in the underground car park. I must declare an
interest as I have used them on several occasions. We can no
longer use them. Can the noble Lord explain whether he has had
any conversations with the authorities of the other House about
us being allowed to use those in future in the same way that
Members of that House are able to?
(Lab)
Following discussions with Black Rod, representations were made
to the Serjeant at Arms about the facilities at the other end,
which the noble Baroness mentions. This has been given active
consideration and we were given to understand that this would be
looked at on a case-by-case basis. I say to the noble Baroness
that I am hopeful that we might see some progress on that matter
before too long but, as it stands, we are not able to use those
chargers.
(Con)
My Lords, I have intervened on this subject on previous
occasions. May I ask the noble Lord to enlarge slightly on “value
for money”? I totally support the noble Lord, Lord Cunningham.
Surely, we must set an example in the House and have these
charging points so that we can use all-electric cars?
(Lab)
My Lords, it is difficult because the Services Committee agreed
that it wished to proceed with a plan for EVCs. In April last
year, it was decided that a business case had to be made. That is
the proper way to consider these matters. In July last year, the
design authority revised the scheme it was submitting for the
business case, having identified, hitherto, construction problems
when it put in the EVCs in Speaker’s Court. By September, the
committee was advised that the original estimate of £53,000 had
increased by 700% and was now £370,000. For that reason, it was
decided in November that we could not go ahead. Those are the
reasons that the last plan was scrapped but we continue to try to
find an option now to progress. I know that the noble Lord,
, who just asked this question,
is on the edge of getting an all-electric car and I hope that by
the time he gets it we will have somewhere for him to charge
it.
(Lab)
May I invite the noble Lord to come down to Chancellor’s Court
with me? He will find four 13-amp charging points similar to what
one might have on the side of one’s house, but they are
weatherproof. Who can use those and could not a similar design be
used for other courts? They may not look that good but an
electric power lead outside the office next door and an external
socket would surely be a very good start.
(Lab)
I thank the noble Lord, , for his earlier comments
about these matters and the discussions we have had. Yes, we have
looked at Chancellor’s Court. The standard office electrical
circuits like the one in Chancellor’s Court are not designed to
provide the level of power continually that we need for EVCs.
Chancellor’s Court is also used, of course, for building projects
and storing project cabins and machinery. I can tell the noble
Lord that in the continuing review we are not going to look at
Chancellor’s Court as a long-term alternative; rather we will
look at the Peers’ car park and Royal Court.
(LD)
My Lords, the noble Lords, and , and two of the staff were
kind enough to take a walk around with me to look at various
options that had not been considered. I am saddened that, for
example, Chancellor’s Court has been excluded, apparently because
it would be inconvenient for contractors who might need to
reconfigure some future plans they have for some temporary
cabins. We found many a location where this could be done
appropriately and cheaply to bring in the facility in that
£50,000 range. May I just say that the contractors do not run
this House? The issues of net zero are far more significant and I
wonder whether the noble Lord, , could take that back to the
staff and ask them to approach the problem as a way to enable us
to have the facility and not to think through what every
obstruction might be, even if hypothetical.
(Lab)
At the outset, I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord,
, for walking the estate with
me and our technical people, looking at their ideas and trying to
find solutions. I am pleased that one of the solutions that we
had been discounting, about plugging into lamp posts, now has
proper, active consideration as a result of their efforts.
Chancellor’s Court concerns me, because it is the access through
which school parties come to visit. It is not the best access for
vehicles. Royal Court, on the other hand, has sufficient
electricity supply; it is easy to access and it has plenty of
parking space. I will not discount what the noble Baroness says.
I will have another look at it, but I think that we perhaps have
better options and I hope that the Committee will consider them
as well.
(Con)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the recent discovery of an
electrical duct directly in the middle of the Peers’ car park
actually gives great hope that this problem can be solved quickly
and easily?
(Lab)
I thank the noble Lord, , as I said, and the noble
Baroness, for coming round with me and coming up with these
ideas. I have seen the exchange of emails that the noble Lord has
had with the principal electrical engineer. I do not want to
raise hopes too high at this stage, but while there is no doubt
that the ducts in their current state could not be used, I can
tell the noble Lord that the complete survey that we are carrying
out now will be presented to the Services Committee as a possible
option, depending on the results. That is down to his efforts. I
pay tribute to him, as a former member of the Services Committee,
as hugely hard-working and diligent, and for the refreshing ideas
that he and the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, have managed to give
to this whole enterprise.
