Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made with
the establishment of the Royal Commission on the Criminal Justice
System announced in the 2019 Queen’s Speech.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Justice
( of Tredegar) (Con)
My Lords, as I said in answer to the noble Lord’s Question on 6
July last year, due to the pandemic, we slowed work to establish
the royal commission. Significant new programmes of work were
established to support recovery and build back a better system.
In the last six months, we have undertaken several new
programmes, and our focus is on delivering these priorities over
the coming months.
(CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I make no
apologies for asking the Question again, because, as I have said
before, I regarded it as extremely discourteous of the Government
to ask Her Majesty the Queen to make an announcement which they
had no intention of implementing. I had no notice of the
intention of the noble Lord, , to bring up this matter on
Report on the police Bill. I invite the Minister to say what he
said in reply to that intervention.
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, since the Queen’s Speech in 2019, there has been the
small matter of a global pandemic, which has affected the
criminal justice system very substantially. We reacted to that:
we put in place particular new ways of working. We have taken a
lot of that work forward: there is the Second Reading this
afternoon of the Judicial Review and Courts Bill, which contains
more reforms to the criminal justice system. I therefore think,
with respect, that it is a little unfair to say—in fact, it is
inaccurate—that we have no intention of implementing that. As to
what I said in response to the noble Lord, , in Committee, I stand by that,
absolutely.
(LD)
My Lords, in the Council of Europe’s recent report on penal
matters, England and Wales scored very high in a number of
categories, including prison population, prison density, suicide
rates, the proportion of prisoners not serving a final sentence
and the rate of admissions per 100,000 inhabitants. It is almost
a world-beating record. Will the Minister ensure that the terms
of reference of any royal commission that is set up include an
in-depth consideration of sentence inflation in our courts?
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, one of the other things on which we score extremely
high internationally is the quality of our judges. That ought to
be mentioned as well. So far as prisons are concerned, we
published a prisons White Paper in the last six months, which
deals with a number of the matters raised by the noble Lord. As
to the terms of reference of any royal commission, of course I
have heard what the noble Lord has said.
(CB)
My Lords, I refer to my interest as director of the Sikh prison
chaplaincy service. Reducing reoffending should be a central aim
in any criminal justice system. Does the Minister agree that
chaplains of all faiths can play an important role in this by
giving purpose and direction to offenders? Does he further agree
that there should be equal access to resources and pastoral
support for all faiths in a truly multifaith chaplaincy and
probation service?
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful to have the opportunity to express real
gratitude for the work done by prison chaplains, particularly
during the pandemic when the chaplaincy had to move from
face-to-face to telephone or video conferencing. Access is of
course ultimately a matter for prison governors, but if the noble
Lord has particular concerns in this area, he knows that he can
speak to me; I am very happy to have a discussion with him.
My Lords, disproportionate outcomes for racially minoritised
people in the criminal justice system are well documented,
including of course in the Lammy review. Does the Minister agree
that care should be taken to prioritise these concerns through
the royal commission?
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, I have said on a number of occasions from this Dispatch
Box that racial inequality in our criminal justice system goes
back many decades. We are absolutely focused on it, and I am sure
that any royal commission in this area would want to look at
it.
(Con)
My Lords, the pandemic demonstrated more clearly than ever the
importance to prison morale and effective rehabilitation of
family and other significant relationships. Benefits to prisoners
of access to video-calling technology have also been proven.
Building back better requires sharpening the emphasis on the
third leg of the rehabilitative stool of relationships. Will this
and access to technology, as an obvious requirement in a world
that is being transformed daily, be key principles in the royal
commission?
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, we know that prisoners who maintain contact with their
families and communities behave better in prison and have lower
reoffending rates when out of prison. During the pandemic, we
rolled out video-calling technology to all prisons. We have
committed to retaining this long term.
(CB)
My Lords, when is it intended to start the royal commission?
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, I am afraid that I cannot go further than what I have
already said. We are looking at it, and we want to make sure that
we maintain our current programmes. In the last six months we
have published a victims consultation, the prison White Paper and
national criminal justice scorecards. We have the Judicial Review
and Courts Bill this afternoon, and there is a consultation on
juries in the consultation on human rights. That is not too bad,
for the last six months.
(Lab)
My Lords, a significant proportion of people on community
sentences report having mental health or drug addiction issues,
yet very few of those community sentences include mental health
or drug treatment requirements, partly because these services are
simply not available in many areas. This must change if we want
community sentences to be fully effective in helping offenders
turn their lives around. Will the royal commission on criminal
justice include a review of community-based sentencing?
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, I am reluctant to write the terms of reference for the
royal commission from the Dispatch Box, but we do know that such
services are absolutely essential for people who have come out of
prison. My department works closely with the DHSC to ensure
proper join-up when people leave prison, so that they can access
services in the community.
(Con)
My Lords, might it not have been sensible to write the terms of
reference for the royal commission in 2019, when it was
announced? I do not see how Covid would have prevented the
establishment of a royal commission, or how any of the splendid
initiatives my noble friend has mentioned would have prevented
the commission operating. This an independent group to look at
the whole thing across the board, and which does not reflect the
Government’s views but looks at all the arguments, surely.
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, as I understand it the royal commission would need
significant resource from the department. The people working on
the royal commission were deployed on other work during the
pandemic, and that is what they are still doing. The last royal
commission was one on this House, and it reported in 2000. I hope
that that has not put us off royal commissions in principle. We
are still focused on having a royal commission on criminal
justice in due course.
(CB)
My Lords, could we consider the possibility that we are looking
at crime and prisons in the wrong way? There is a lovely printing
term, arsy-versy—which is not a rude word. Can we not recognise
that, for a specific period, we have a captive audience and we
could change them? Many people who have come out of prison have
been useful to the community. We need learned experience to help
us in the world of crime.
of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, I can only agree with that. We have recently looked
very carefully at our education programme in prisons, which has
undergone an absolute revamp. Minister in the other place has had
a lot to say about that. Prison is an opportunity to turn lives
around. In addition to punishment, we must never forget that part
of it is about rehabilitation.
