Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of
the consequences of current passport and visa requirements on the
number of school trips from continental Europe to the United
Kingdom.
(CB)
My Lords, I beg leave to answer the Question in my name on the
Order Paper.
The Minister of State, Home Office () (Con)
My Lords, I think that the noble Lord wants to ask the Question.
Before he does so, perhaps I may say to the House that yesterday
I was quite insistent that not only had I sent out a letter to
the noble Lord, , but that the whole Committee had
had a copy of it. I had cleared the letter but it had not gone
out. I thank the noble Lord, , for alerting me to that this
morning and I apologise unreservedly to the Committee and the
House.
We no longer accept national identity cards as a valid travel
document from EU, EEA and Swiss visitors to the UK. The
experience at the UK border since the change has been positive,
with EU, EEA and Swiss citizens making the switch to use their
passports for travel. We do not plan to change that approach.
(CB)
Around 1 million European children, mostly from France and
Germany, used to come to the UK each year on school trips. Now
that people need passports and, in some cases, visas, bookings
for the UK are widely reported to have collapsed. Ireland and
even Normandy are stepping in. Will the Government either bring
back ID card travel for these low-risk groups or devise a simple
group travel scheme that will let us welcome them to this
country?
(Con)
My Lords, it is quite early in the implementation to say just
which way overall bookings are going but certainly Ireland is
reporting positively on this. Of course, there are in existence
such things as collective group passports, although they will
decline over time. However, we do not plan to bring ID cards back
and it is important that we have secure documents such as
passports at the border.
(Lab)
My Lords, is not the reverse also damaging to our schoolchildren;
namely, the fact that school trips from this country to the
continent have been enormously cut back, with great harm to the
education of our children? Is it not the same process as has
happened to universities regarding the Erasmus scheme? The change
has done colossal harm to internationalism and the transatlantic
views of the British university population. Are our young people
not all casualties of Brexit?
(Con)
My Lords, that really is a stretch. We expect tourists who visit
the UK from outside the EU to hold a passport and we now expect
those from EU and EEA countries, and Switzerland, to do the
same.
(LD)
My Lords, we have a problem with people wanting to learn modern
languages. There is a declining rate of people studying them.
Does the Minister accept that, if we want to encourage their use,
the Government should do their level best to encourage school
travel—both into and out of this country? If this is not
possible, because of some bureaucratic scheme, surely there is a
case for changing the bureaucracy.
(Con)
My Lords, this is not about bureaucracy. It is about the security
of documents. It is quite early in the implementation process to
say whether this has had a declining effect on tourism, but it
should not have.
The (CB)
My Lords, in December, the Guardian reported the accommodation
provider Lingua Stay as saying that schools across the continent
had completely abandoned the UK in favour of other countries. Are
the Government not concerned about the effect on the
economy—including the education economy—of their decision not to
allow group passports and IDs as travel documents for
schools?
(Con)
As I explained to the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, I think that
collective, group passports are still in existence, although we
expect them to be phased out at some point. The EU is now in the
same situation as the rest of the world.
(Con)
My Lords, in an answer last June, the Minister suggested that
collective passports under the 1961 Council of Europe treaty
could be used. It turns out that these can be used only for
nationals of the country sending the visit; in other words, a
Spanish student in a French school could not benefit from this.
Will the Minister undertake to talk to the group of tourism blue
badge holders in London to try to devise a scheme—for the whole
world, not just for Europe—that encourages young people to come
to Britain? It is first impressions that often bring a lifelong
admiration for a country.
(Con)
The noble Earl will know that we continue to accept collective
passports from countries that have ratified the relevant Council
of Europe treaty. Nineteen countries have done so but, in
practice, only the UK, Malta and Slovenia actively issue them. As
I said earlier, I think they will probably be phased out.
(Lab)
My Lords, it is not too early to tell what the results of the
Government’s changes have been. Eurovoyages, a French school trip
company, reported that, in 2019, 11,000 students were sent to the
UK. This year, it will be between zero and 100. CTS Reisen, a
German company, sent more than 1,200 school groups to the UK in
2019—some 37,000 pupils. In 2022, there are no firm bookings.
This is the consequence of what the Government are doing. What
does this say about Britain’s place in the world and the
Government’s policy of global Britain?
(Con)
My Lords, I think it says a lot about the pandemic. Very few
people have actually travelled.
(CB)
My Lords, the Government’s argument that the continuation of this
scheme would be a security risk and would discriminate against
non-EU students has been taken on board by those administering
these trips and by other interested parties, such as the British
Guild of Tourist Guides and the Institute of Tourist Guiding.
They have put forward some constructive suggestions to find a way
through. Is the Minister willing to meet them?
(Con)
My Lords, we have found a way through. It is called a
passport.
(LD)
My Lords, the Minister has twice cited security concerns to
justify this change. What new security concerns have arisen since
we left the EU?
(Con)
Some ID cards are among the least secure documents seen at the
border, as they were before we left the EU. As a rule, they are
not as secure as corresponding national passports.
(Lab)
My Lords, I declare a family interest in that my younger daughter
is a schoolteacher at a rural lycée in the centre of France in
the Sarthe region. Every two years, until recently, she would
bring a party of up to 40 of her 16 to 18 year- old students to
London for a week’s cultural visit, which gave them an amazing
experience and a lifelong love of England and English people.
These have all now stopped because very few of the students have
a passport; as a result, as the noble Lord, Lord Anderson,
referred to, they are now looking at destinations such as
Ireland. Will she take on board the comments of President Kennedy
about the value of international exchange students, when he said
of foreign students studying in the US:
“I think they teach more than they learn”?
(Con)
I do not disagree with the noble Lord about the value of foreign
travel for students at any age. It absolutely enriches their
experience. However, we expect tourists who visit the UK from
outside the EU to hold a passport and we will now be expecting
those from EU and EEA countries and Switzerland to do the
same.
(CB)
My Lords, is the issue here not really about maintaining the deep
web of human relationships between our country and our near
neighbours into the period when we are no longer in the EU? I
have had many conversations with French people who have said that
coming here was their first contact with abroad, it made a deep
and lasting impression and it led to a lifetime’s friendship with
the UK. Surely for these children, who are a low security risk,
it should be possible to find a pragmatic arrangement to allow
them to come on a collective document.
(Con)
I certainly agree with the noble Lord about a deep web of
relationships. In fact, my first school trip was to France; I
recall that it took probably five days on a coach and we only had
two days there, but nevertheless it was a very enjoyable
experience. However, we are now treating the whole of the world
in the same way and we do not make any apologies for that.
