Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of
the equality of treatment between different groups in respect of
the enforcement of lockdown regulations by the police since
spring 2020.
The Minister of State, Home Office () (Con)
My Lords, we are clear that nobody should ever be subject to
police enforcement based on their race, gender, ethnicity, age or
any other protected characteristic. That is why the NPCC—the
National Police Chiefs’ Council—has commissioned an independent
analysis of fixed penalty notices issued to different demographic
groups during the pandemic. The findings from this analysis will
be published in due course.
(Lab)
I am grateful to the Minister for that, particularly after such a
long night. Broad police powers, however well-intended, will
inevitably lead to arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement. She
makes the point about racial bias and I look forward to the
fuller picture. Have the Government now gathered more complete
data on differentials in enforcement of lockdown regulations? How
much was directed at, say, small family picnics or peaceful
protests, as opposed to unsafe places of work?
(Con)
As I said to the noble Baroness in my first Answer, there is
going to be more analysis of FPNs issued to different demographic
groups. The outcome will be very interesting in all sorts of
contexts—social and otherwise. Like her, I look forward to the
findings from the analysis. In parallel to that, the HAC has
published its report, The Macpherson Report: Twenty-two Years On,
which raised the same concerns over disproportionality of
FPNs.
(Lab)
My Lords, when the Prime Minister was holding a series of parties
in No. 10, what were the police doing to enforce regulations?
(Con)
My Lords, I was not there, I am afraid.
(Con)
My Lords, the ONS has recently published data that shows, after
adjusting for age, that men and women of black ethnicity are four
times as likely to die from Covid as people of white ethnicity.
What steps are the Government taking to identify and then
eliminate the causes of this very worrying disparity?
(Con)
My Lords, my noble friend asks a pertinent question—that there is
a disparity is not disputed. I know that the Ethnicity Subgroup
of SAGE has done some work on this, both the year before last and
last year. Factors include people’s jobs, and therefore their
exposure to risk; household circumstances, such as more people in
the house interacting; and financial difficulty in isolating.
Vaccine hesitancy is an undoubted factor. The Government are
giving financial help with things such as Covid support payments,
but I think there is more to be gleaned. On people’s responses to
Covid, maybe there is something in the physiology or make-up of
different types of people—such as the cytokine storms that we
talk about and inflammatory responses—that make them susceptible
to more serious illness. I think some of that is yet to be
uncovered.
(Lab)
My Lords, the sad thing is that any new regulations tend to have
more impact on the black community. How will the Government make
sure that equality means equality for all groups?
(Con)
My Lords, the Government are obliged, when they do anything, to
make sure that there is not a disproportionate effect on
different communities. That requirement is placed on them under
the public sector equality duties set out in Section 149 of the
Equality Act and covers decisions with respect to the
Government’s response to Covid-19.
(LD)
My Lords, I think the whole House is relieved that the noble
Baroness has not been present at No. 10 parties, but it is not a
general rule that Ministers can answer questions only about
events at which they were present. I wonder if she might possibly
write to the noble Lord, .
(Con)
I think I answered the noble Lord’s question. I was not there; I
was not witness to any events that may or may not have happened.
As the noble Lord will know—and yes, I do speak for the
Government—Sue Gray is doing her review, and the outcome of that
will be known in due course.
(Lab)
My Lords, on this very point, the question did not require the
Minister to have been present to be able to answer it. The
question that troubles some people is that the Metropolitan
Police has already publicly said that it will not investigate
anything but will wait to hear what says and that it is in contact with . The Metropolitan Police has police officers in Downing
Street, both inside the building and outside. Surely it is
legitimate to ask: are statements being taken from those officers
by , and is the Metropolitan Police offering them to Sue
Gray’s investigation, seeing as it is not investigating this
itself?
(Con)
The noble Lord asks a perfectly legitimate question. To that I
would say that the police are operationally independent of
government, but the review and the investigation will take their
course.
(Lab)
Do the Government currently believe that there has been equality
of treatment between different groups in respect of the
enforcement of lockdown regulations by the police since spring
2020? If the Government do not believe that that has been the
case, what action are they taking now to address that point?
(Con)
As I said to noble Lords, there clearly has been a disparity,
with BAME people more likely to have fixed penalty notices issued
to them. As I said, the NPCC is going to analyse that in more
depth, and will report in due course.
(Con)
My Lords, given the differences in health status among the
different minority groups in the country, with those in the most
deprived areas staying healthy only into their early 50s while
those in the wealthiest areas stay healthy until around the age
of 70, will any assessment be made of the impact on those
required to go out to work—to defy lockdown, perhaps—or to find
other sources of support if, for example, they were lacking a
private pension to tide them over to the ever-rising state
pension age, which we were talking about in the previous
Question? Lockdowns impose much more hardship on those in poor
health, who have much lower resources. I would be grateful if my
noble friend could write if she does not have the answer.
(Con)
I might have part of an answer, which I addressed in an earlier
question. I do not think there is any doubt that nervousness in
isolating because of financial circumstances was both anecdotally
a factor and found to be a factor in people not wanting to
isolate because they needed the money. I talked about Covid
support payments, but I am looking now to my noble friend Lady
Stedman-Scott. I admire my noble friend Lady Altmann for linking
the previous Question to this one, but I am sure that my noble
friend Lady Stedman-Scott will be able to answer in more detail
in due course.
