Armed Forces Pay Carol Monaghan 1. What recent assessment he has
made of trends in the level of pay of armed forces personnel.
(904819) The Minister for Defence People and Veterans May I open by
associating myself with your remarks, Mr Speaker, about the hon.
Member for Birmingham, Erdington? We express our deepest sympathy
to the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms
Harman) and their entire family. Armed forces pay remains
competitive....Request free trial
Armed Forces Pay
1. What recent assessment he has made of trends in the level of
pay of armed forces personnel. (904819)
The Minister for Defence People and Veterans
May I open by associating myself with your remarks, Mr Speaker,
about the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington? We express our
deepest sympathy to the right hon. and learned Member for
Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) and their entire family.
Armed forces pay remains competitive. Indeed, in 2021
approximately 35,000 service personnel earning less than £24,000
received a £250 consolidated pay uplift because, despite the
public sector pay freeze, we are mindful of protecting the lowest
earners in the armed forces during the public sector pay
pause.
May I start by offering my condolences to the family of our hon.
Friend, , and in particular to our
colleague, the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and
Peckham? Our thoughts are with her at this time.
Since 2010, many armed forces personnel have experienced a
dramatic real-terms decrease in pay, some by as much as 6.5%.
With the cost of living increasing dramatically and personnel
struggling to stay afloat financially, will the Minister now lift
the pay freeze and restore pay to at least the levels of a decade
ago, when his party came to power?
When considering armed forces pay, it is very important to look
at it in the round. Service personnel benefit from subsidised
food and accommodation, a fantastic non-contributory pension, and
allowances on top of basic pay. If I may say, it is a little bit
rich getting lessons on armed forces pay from the SNP, given that
it has hiked tax on service personnel in Scotland to the tune of
£580 per person. It is just as well that the Ministry of Defence
is making up the difference.
I am very sad about the loss of Jack. I had known him since we
both served together—him for the unions, me for the military—in
Northern Ireland a long time ago.
Private soldiers, able seamen and aircraftsmen, after six months’
training and in accordance with the Armed Forces’ Pay Review
Body, get roughly £3,000 to £4,000 less than a policeman who is
also trained for about six months. That seems weird and I ask the
Minister if he might slightly account for that.
As I said, we have to take note of the fact that service
personnel benefit very significantly from subsidised food and
accommodation, a non-contributory pension and allowances. Many
young soldiers are also taking advantage of the opportunity to
get on to the property ladder through the Forces Help to Buy
scheme, which has been a great success.
I thank you, Mr Speaker, for what you said about ; his loss is felt by all of us
across the House.
I take on board what the Minister said about pay below £24,000,
but being as tough as it is for all those people, we think that
that is inadequate. Moreover, is he aware that there are huge
pressures in terms of the retention of more senior staff,
particularly in the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force? The gap
between what they can earn in the private sector and what they
currently earn in the Navy and Air Force, and how much their
skills are in demand, are really affecting the ability to retain
important members of staff.
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, and that is why we offer
some technical bonuses. We are also initiating a strategic review
of terms and conditions and reward and incentivisation to ensure
that we can compete with the private sector.
UK Defence Jobs
2. What steps his Department is taking to support defence jobs
throughout the UK. (904820)
9. What steps his Department is taking to support defence jobs
throughout the UK. (904828)
13. What steps his Department is taking to support defence jobs
throughout the UK. (904832)
18. What steps his Department is taking to support defence jobs
throughout the UK. (904837)
The Secretary of State for Defence
May I pay tribute on behalf of the Cabinet and the Government to
the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington ()? We are sorry for his loss and
our condolences are with his family. I shall remember Jack with
his trademark mac that he often wore—he never changed it—and for
his well-crafted arguments often against the Government, but
nevertheless making strong and powerful points.
The latest figures from the Office for National Statistics
recorded Ministry of Defence support to over 200,000 jobs in UK
industry. Further economic growth and prosperity, including jobs,
across the Union will be underpinned by £188 billion of
investment in defence over four years and this Government’s
commitment to a deeper and more strategic relationship with
industry, as part of the defence and security industrial
strategy.
Dr Davies
I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. There is great
interest in north Wales in the opportunity that the new medium
helicopter programme could bring to the region. Will he provide
an update on the progress made by his Department ahead of the
launch of a formal competition?
Mr Wallace
Last November, we held a successful market interest day with
potential suppliers to discuss requirements for our new medium
helicopter programme. Hopefully, by February, we shall start the
process of the competition.
As my constituency neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Vale
of Clwyd (Dr Davies), mentioned, the new helicopter programme
could be significant in north-east Wales and generate around 400
jobs at Airbus directly, should its bid be successful. Will the
Secretary of State confirm when the process is scheduled to be
completed and when he expects the helicopters to come into
service afterwards?
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend makes an important point. Whoever wins this
competition, it is important that they contribute to the
prosperity and job opportunities for UK citizens wherever they
may be. I am not interested in “here today, gone tomorrow”
suppliers for this. We want to enhance British industry and make
sure that these helicopters are properly made and put together in
this country. Once the competition is complete, we hope to have
the medium-lift helicopters in service from the middle of this
decade.
I was pleased to read last week of a new five-year, £460 million
logistics contract that has been issued which should deliver the
MOD £54 million of efficiency savings a year. Will the Secretary
of State outline what the new logistics information system will
mean for jobs in the UK, and specifically, jobs in the east
midlands?
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend highlights an important part of the capability in
which we need to invest. Our logistics information system
contract will support vital services for another five years and
ensure that the UK can rapidly deploy military personnel and
equipment globally. He will be pleased to hear that the contract
will sustain 675 jobs across the UK supply chain and benefit the
whole country, including through jobs at companies with a
presence in the east midlands, such as IBM in Nottingham.
As joint chair of the all-party group on manufacturing, I know
that would have appreciated the
emphasis today on manufacturing and UK jobs. The national
shipbuilding strategy sets out an ambition to support UK
manufacturing by boosting innovation, skills, jobs and
productivity across the UK, in addition to ensuring the
construction of ships’ hulls in British shipyards using
British-sourced steel. Will the Secretary of State confirm that
every encouragement will be given to UK-based companies to add to
the UK content of these new vessels by supplying the systems and
equipment that go hand in hand with them?
Mr Wallace
The 2017 national shipbuilding strategy has been highly
successful at supporting our UK naval shipbuilding industry. I
wish to reassure my hon. Friend that the Government are working
hard to ensure that the UK producers of steel, and the wider UK
shipbuilding supply chain, have the best possible chance of
competing for contracts—including General Electric, from his
constituency. The refresh of the national shipbuilding strategy
is due for publication—we hope that this will be by the end of
this month.
Can I bring the Secretary of State back to planet Earth—or planet
MOD? He has just mentioned GE at Rugby, but the MOD took no
interest when its American parent company in Philadelphia wanted
to move production to France; similarly, there was no interest in
ensuring that the fleet solid support ships are built in the UK
using British steel. Every other major industrial country and
major defence country looks after their own industry. Why will he
not throw off the blinkers and actually do the same here in the
UK?
Mr Wallace
Oh dear. I think the right hon. Gentleman has not even read the
defence industrial strategy, where it is very clear that we have
committed to enhancing sovereignty. He will know, because he has
watched the solid support ship contract with great interest, that
we have also classified those ships as warships and started that
competition. It is incredibly important that we recognise that,
first and foremost, this Government are going to do more, and
have done more, to enhance British shipbuilding than any other
Government for many, many years, including the one he was a
member of.
May I start by thanking the Defence Secretary and you, Mr
Speaker, for the words about ? On this side, we mourn deeply
his very sad and sudden death. He touched everyone he worked
with—everyone has a proud or affectionate story—and our House and our
politics are the poorer without him this week.
Turning to the question, there are indeed 300,000 UK defence
jobs, many linked to MOD contracts. Why have the National Audit
Office and the MOD’s own accounts officially confirmed 67 cases
of overspends, write-offs, contract cancellations, unplanned
extensions and admin errors since 2010, costing at least £13
billion in taxpayers’ money wasted since 2010? Those are only the
published data—they are the tip of the iceberg—so will the
Secretary of State now commission the NAO to conduct an
across-the-board audit of MOD waste, as Labour in government
would from day one?
Mr Wallace
I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman has raised the issue of
the contents of Labour’s dodgy dossier on defence procurement,
which are a fascinating read. They include allocating the loss on
Nimrod, which the Labour party had governed for 13 years, to a
Conservative Government and the fact that the Labour party had
estimated that aircraft carriers would cost only £2.7 billion
when in fact they cost over £6 billion. Considerable amounts of
the so-called “waste” in the dossier show a breathtaking
misunderstanding of both accountancy and how things operate when
it comes to procurement. Retiring an aircraft last year that was
due to retire in 2015—the Sentinel—does not make it a write-off
or a waste; it is getting rid of a piece of equipment that is no
longer value for money in delivering what we need to deliver. If
he wishes to become the future Defence Secretary, I suggest he
takes a course in accountancy first.
The Sentinel was, of course, retired before the replacement E-7
Wedgetails were ready, so the MOD rightly accounted for £147
million in constructive loss in its accounts. However, £4 billion
has been wasted since 2019 alone, since the Secretary of State
has been in post, and the National Audit Office has judged the
MOD’s accounts for the defence equipment plan “unaffordable”
every year for the last four years. It has said that there is a
budget black hole of up to £17 billion. The Secretary of State
has taken no serious action to deal with these deep-seated
problems. He is failing British forces, and failing British
taxpayers.
Mr Wallace
Desperate!
Let us start with the first point. The Sentinel is not an
early-warning radar, which the E-7 Wedgetail is. If we are going
to say that I retired one platform capability and replaced it
with another, let us try to make sure that we replace it with the
right type of capability, otherwise someone will be flying the
wrong plane in the wrong place at the wrong time—but then I
suppose we should not really be very surprised by Labour.
I entirely understand the NAO’s observations. There are,
absolutely, a great many things to put right, and in putting them
right, yes, we cancel programmes that we cannot afford, yes, we
retire capabilities that should have been retired previously,
because that is called putting your house in order. Otherwise, we
end up with an NAO ruling that
“The MoD has a multi-billion-pound budgetary black hole which it
is trying to fix with a ‘save now, pay later’ approach.”
That was the NAO’s report on the Labour Government in 2009, and
the “pay later” is what we are now living with.
I endorse everything that both Front Benchers said about , but not everything that
followed.
The Secretary of State and I have crossed swords before about
procurement. As he knows, the Public Accounts Committee said that
the system was broken. He kindly offered me a meeting last time
we discussed this in the House, and he kept his word: he
generously gave me an hour of his time, and we discussed it in
detail. Following that, is there anything he would like to say to
the House today about his plans to reform procurement in the
Ministry of Defence?
Mr Wallace
As I have said, there are observations about defence procurement
in all the NAO reports and also in those of Select Committees of
both Houses, and it has been a running sore for many years. We
have to fix some of those issues. The Minister for Defence
Procurement, my hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (), has come to the House time
and again to talk about and expose the issues relating to Ajax,
and has been honest and clear about the problems that we need to
put right. I discussed with my right hon. Friend the need to
ensure that our pricing estimates and the quality of our
contracts are correct, so that risk is held in the right place.
Both those issues are incredibly important. We also need a change
in the culture of optimism bias: sometimes people want to
gold-plate things when the good will do, rather than the
perfect.
Mr Speaker
I call the Scottish National party spokesperson, .
In 2010, when this Government came to power, there were three
main RAF bases in Scotland, at Kinloss, Lossiemouth and Leuchars.
Now there is only one. Can the Secretary of State tell us how
many jobs were lost to Scotland as a result of the RAF draw-downs
inflicted on it by Westminster, and, two years on from the
Government’s own target of 12,500 personnel to be stationed in
Scotland by 2020, will he also tell us how much that target has
been missed by, as of today?
Mr Wallace
It is correct that there is one RAF base now—in Lossiemouth.
However, we are increasing the footprint up there, because we
will base the E-7 there alongside the P-8, and it is home to some
Typhoon aircraft as well. So there have been increases in some
areas. We have replaced the RAF base at Leuchars with Army units,
and we will put another unit there as well. Overall, the
proportion of the Army that is based in Scotland has increased
since “Army 2030”.
Devonport is the UK’s premier naval base and dockyard. Will the
Secretary of State present plans to recycle the 13 rotting
nuclear submarines that are tied up alongside it? That would not
only be good for the environment but good for Devonport, freeing
up dock space, and good for jobs as well.
Mr Wallace
I am grateful to the hon. Member for drawing attention to the
importance of Plymouth. I have asked our Submarine Delivery
Agency and, indeed, the Navy to present plans for investing in
its infrastructure, which has suffered for too many decades from
a lack of investment because people want the more “sexy” show
capabilities rather than the things that underpin keeping our
forces ready and fit for battle.
My right hon. Friend’s Department has announced that the
Alanbrooke barracks in my constituency, which proudly hosts the
4th Regiment Royal Artillery, will close in 2031. Can my right
hon. Friend identify any possible other military uses for that
base? Alternatively, will he work urgently with the local
authority to ensure that the obvious redevelopment opportunities
are taken up as quickly as possible?
Mr Wallace
I should be delighted to meet my hon. Friend to discuss all
opportunities to make use of that space.
Ajax Programme: Cost
3. What recent estimate he has made of the cost of the Ajax
programme. (904821)
The Minister for Defence Procurement
As reported by the Infrastructure and Projects Authority in July
2021, the budgeted cost of Ajax is £6.354 billion to manufacture
the vehicle and bring it to full operating capability and for its
first period of service. Forecasts are updated twice yearly and
our current forecast is that we will deliver under budget at
£5.915 billion, though that is subject to change. That includes
our £5.5 billion firm contract with General Dynamics.
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the short tribute to our comrade
.
The latest document on Ajax is enough to make anyone weep. It
points to an alphabet soup of accountabilities and a saga of poor
procurement, and says that the vehicle thus far is not fit for
purpose. And of course it has been a health and safety minefield.
This project matters for our military capability and for the
4,000-strong workforce in south Wales and across the UK. In his
December statement, the Minister ended on an optimistic note when
responding to a question about the workforce from my hon. Friend
the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (). Can the Minister give us
the expected timeline for fixing these issues?
The hon. Gentleman is correct to say that I sounded an upbeat
note in terms of the jobs in south Wales. We were right to
commission the report. It was a thorough report and I believe it
was right to publish it so that this House knew exactly where we
stood on Ajax. On the question of employment, there are some
4,100 jobs across the country in 230 companies, and the programme
is particularly important to south Wales. I was upbeat to the
extent that I believe that we must work together with General
Dynamics to fix this issue. We have now received a draft report
from Millbrook, as I outlined in my last statement, and there is
work to be done on that. We may not really get to grips with that
until July, but progress is being made. Certainly I believe that
the independent work that General Dynamics is doing in
Horiba-Mira and elsewhere can resolve these issues. We need to
test that very carefully, but we have invested very heavily in
this project, it is an important capability and we are determined
to make it work if we possibly can.
Dame
I would also like to express my condolences on the loss of , who made his maiden speech the
same day that I made mine. I was very fond of him.
I have no doubt that some of the procurement processes that were
inherited from the last Labour Government led to some of the
flaws in the Ajax programme. I say that because it is emblematic
of a catalogue of wasteful decisions such as the selling off of
the Royal Naval Hospital Haslar in 2009 for £3 million when it
had reportedly been valued at £52 million. Could the Minister
please assure me that the MOD’s procurement and disposal
decisions, such as that involving Fort Blockhouse at Gosport,
will maximise the benefit for the taxpayer and for local
communities?
I congratulate my hon. Friend on her elevation; that is good to
see. She refers to the approval process for Ajax, which was
indeed under the last Labour Administration. I think it passed
maingate business approval in March 2010, around the same time
that the National Audit Office was pointing out the multi-billion
pound black hole that the Labour party was leaving in Defence at
the time. I do not believe that Fort Blockhouse will be disposed
of until 2023, so there is time to get it right. I would be more
than happy to meet my hon. Friend if that is helpful.
I join other voices in expressing my own sadness at the loss of
our colleague . Jack was someone who committed
his entire life to improving the lot of others. He was, and is,
an example to us all.
Last month, the Government’s own report found that Ministers were
in the dark about the serious issues surrounding Ajax for a whole
two years before the current Minister was informed in 2020.
During that time, soldiers were put in a vehicle that could cause
harm. What new measures have been put in place to ensure that
Ministers are fully on top of what is going on in their
Department?
There is a whole raft of measures. I have met the hon. Gentleman
and he is aware from reading the report of what has been set out.
We immediately accepted the vast majority of recommendations.
There are about two recommendations that need to be worked on,
but the intent is there and our intent is to adopt them. One of
the most important aspects is to make certain that all people
with a view on safety are part of the decision making process, so
that everyone with a view has an opportunity to air it and
everyone is listened to with respect. We are also putting health
and safety input into the highest ranks of the decision making
process, so that major decisions cannot be made, either by
Ministers or by other parts of the organisation, without that
health and safety input right at the top of the organisation.
These measures will help to ensure that such a situation does not
reoccur.
Relocation from Afghanistan
4. What steps his Department is taking to support the relocation
of (a) vulnerable Afghans and (b) British nationals from
Afghanistan. (904822)
The Minister for the Armed Forces
Clearly the movement of any vulnerable Afghan or British national
from Afghanistan to the UK requires the co-operation of a third
country. In the UK’s case, this has mostly been through Pakistan
and we are very grateful to our friends in Islamabad for working
with us. More than 2,000 people have come to the UK since the end
of Operation Pitting, and we continue to work with partners in
the region to facilitate the exit of more, through more
routes.
Dr Lewis
It is worth noting that the last speech Jack made to the House of
Commons was on this very subject of standing by our friends in
Afghanistan.
Given the unhealthy closeness of ties between parts of the
Pakistani state and the Afghan Taliban, what assurances and
assistance will the Minister give to Afghans in hiding in
Pakistan, who may have been issued with UK visas, that they will
not be deported back to Afghanistan by the Pakistani authorities
when they present themselves at an airport, instead of being
permitted to fly to the United Kingdom?
My right hon. Friend will know that we are flirting with
operational detail that may be best kept private, but he and all
colleagues should reassure those with whom they are in touch that
everybody who has arrived in Pakistan with the correct paperwork
has been facilitated by the British high commission to leave the
country successfully. The challenge, as he might expect, is for
those who do not have papers, which is a very live conversation
not just with Islamabad but with our friends in other capitals
around the region.
How many ARAP families now in the United Kingdom have been
granted indefinite leave to remain?
I fear this may be a red herring, inasmuch as indefinite leave to
remain is an automatic part of the ARAP scheme. More than 5,000
ARAP-eligible personnel were brought out during Operation
Pitting, and around 1,100 of the 2,000 who have come out since
are also ARAPers. About another 150 or so ARAP principals from
the original cohort who actually worked for us and were approved
during Operation Pitting are left in Afghanistan, and we continue
to work to bring them out. Of course, we are getting applications
all the time. The ARAP entitlement is absolute and is not time
limited. We will bring out anybody eligible who applies.
Ukraine: Territorial Integrity
5. What steps his Department is taking to help protect the
territorial integrity of Ukraine. (904823)
Mr
8. What steps his Department is taking to help protect the
territorial integrity of Ukraine. (904826)
14. What steps his Department is taking to help protect the
territorial integrity of Ukraine. (904833)
The Secretary of State for Defence
The Ministry of Defence has a long-standing relationship with our
Ukrainian counterparts, and we continue to provide support in
many areas including security assistance and defence reform.
Since 2015, the UK has helped to build the resilience and
capacity of the Ukrainian armed forces through Operation Orbital,
which has trained over 22,000 Ukrainian troops.
Can my right hon. Friend update the House on the memorandum of
implementation between Ukraine and the United Kingdom to build up
naval capacity and naval bases?
Mr Wallace
It became very clear after 2014 that Ukraine had lost large parts
of its navy to Russia’s illegal occupation of Crimea, and it is
important to help Ukraine build up and sustain a naval
capability. We have continued to invest in that, and last year we
signed not only an MOI but an agreement to sell naval patrol
boats with weapons systems to the Ukrainian Government.
I associate myself with the comments about .
Does my right hon. Friend share my gratitude to the excellent
staff at Permanent Joint Headquarters at Northwood in my
constituency for their superb leadership and focus on our
overseas operations?
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend is right to pay tribute to staff at PJHQ. Both
civilian and military staff constantly work around the clock to
deliver a whole range of international operations and, in terms
of the frontline, are always ready and prepared to deploy to
wherever we need in the world, including in Ukraine.
It has been suggested that our support for Ukraine might include
the provision of weapons systems. Is that true?
Mr Wallace
As I have said, in June last year, we entered into an agreement
with Ukraine to supply eight fast ships equipped with modern
weapons systems. That was a significant agreement as it affirmed
the UK’s openness to supply Ukraine with defensive weapons
systems as well as training, and that principle remains.
May I thank the House for the kind words about our friend, ? He is a loss to my party, to
the wider Labour movement, and, indeed, to Parliament.
The threats made to Ukraine are part of a wider pattern of
behaviour by Russia, ranging from Belarus to the Balkans, to test
NATO and the west. We also have to tackle Russian misinformation,
as it is a huge tool in President Putin’s arsenal and has been
used to devastating effect against our allies. What steps are the
Government considering taking to counter that huge problem, along
with other grey zone attacks?
Mr Wallace
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The false narrative is
that, somehow, NATO is surrounding Ukraine, when only one 16th of
Russia’s border is shared with a NATO member. It is also a false
narrative to say that NATO, as some sort of single entity, looks
to expansion. People seek to join NATO often as a result of other
issues. The question for the Kremlin is why so many countries
have sought that membership.
On what I am doing to counter that information, I think we all
have a role to play. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary
has engaged the media, and I will continue to do so as well. This
House had an extremely good debate on the subject, and I listened
to many Members’ speeches. I urge anyone who has not read the
debate, to read it. It is important to call out the false
playbook. I also urge right hon. and hon. Members to read the
article written by President Putin himself in July last year in
which he exposes his real views towards the people of
Ukraine.
Lots of people spoke in the debate last Thursday about the hybrid
warfare that Putin is effectively waging against the west at the
moment. Is the Secretary of State for Defence convinced that the
UK is doing enough to tackle the dirty money that comes from
Russia into London? Is he convinced that we are doing enough not
just on the misinformation that Russia perpetuates here, but on
the number of dodgy companies that are functioning here?
Mr Wallace
The hon. Gentleman will know from my time as Minister of State
for Security and Economic Crime that I was always pushing to do
more—and there is always more to do. The unexplained wealth
orders were one step, but more transparency and more rigorous
checks in places such as Companies House are also important
steps. I think that he is right that Russia goes after a whole
range of our vulnerabilities. Perhaps, in the way that we
function as an open liberal society, we should make sure that we
protect those places and not just the more obvious places, such
as the military.
May I associate myself very warmly with the comments made about
my good friend, ? He was a friend to us all in
this House.
Given that there is a need for maximum co-ordination and
co-operation with our allies if we are to counter the threat from
Russia effectively, what measures are the Government taking to
enhance our co-operation with our European partners to make sure
that we are an effective alliance?
Mr Wallace
The United Kingdom has uniquely at its disposal a strong
partnership with the United States, and a partnership also with
the EU and indeed in NATO. We are working all those avenues to
make sure that we present a united and strong front. This week, I
will visit a number of countries in eastern Europe and
Scandinavia, many of which are very, very worried about what has
been happening. We have continued with the diplomatic track. In
2019, I extended Operation Orbital to continue to help build
Ukraine’s capability to defend itself, which is incredibly
important. All of us should call out those false narratives to
make sure that, should anything happen, we have a package of
sanctions ready to deliver to make sure that Russia’s bad mistake
is punished.
Putin’s ultimatum in December, placing unrealistic demands on
NATO’s forced presence in eastern Europe and giving Russia
licence to invade Ukraine, was clearly designed to be rejected.
Will the Secretary of State confirm that we will not concede to
Russia’s threats; that NATO’s defence posture in eastern Europe,
and in the Baltic states in particular, will not change; and that
we will commit to a long-term strategy of supporting Ukraine
through joint training exercises, arms sales and the eventual
inviting of Ukraine to join NATO?
Mr Wallace
First and foremost, we need to deal with the central charge,
which I think is a false charge, of NATO aggression and a NATO
surrounding of Russia. NATO is defensive by its very nature—if
you attack us, you attack us all—and it is a defensive alliance;
it is not offensive. There are no NATO bases in Ukraine, which is
also alleged. The United Kingdom will work with whoever wants to
work with us and shares our values. We will not be deterred by
bullying, and we will not be deterred by distance. We shall step
up and help those countries in eastern Europe and Scandinavia,
and Ukraine—that is its right as a sovereign country—should they
wish to have our assistance. We respect their rights as free,
sovereign countries, and I ask other countries to do the
same.
The worrying developments in Ukraine along with those in
Kazakhstan demonstrate the need for us to be able to understand
the Russian Federation and its motivations, however misguided its
actions. Thankfully, the Ministry of Defence has the Russian
military studies centre in Shrivenham, which is a resource of
outstanding pedigree built on a proven research record. Will the
Secretary of State assure the House that the centre will be able
to preserve its independence following the review that his
Department is undertaking? It would be a great pity if the unique
pedigree of that research centre was lost.
Mr Wallace
Not for the first time, the hon. Member raises an interesting
point that I will be delighted to look at. It is important that
we all have independent advice. This month, I will make the Chief
of Defence Intelligence available to hon. Members of the House,
to brief those who so wish on the current situation in Ukraine.
We should not forget that what the Russian Government—not the
Russian people—are frightened of is not NATO but NATO’s
values.
Future Soldier Programme: Army Estate in Wales
6. What assessment he has made of the impact of the future
soldier programme of reform on the army estate in Wales.
(904824)
The Minister for Defence Procurement
My right hon. Friend has fought and fought for the retention of
more military personnel at St Athan. At his request, I visited
the site personally and re-evaluated our options. Unfortunately,
the historic agreement entered into with the Welsh Government
does indeed make such—[Interruption.] I do apologise, Mr Speaker,
and I apologise to my right hon. Friend—I wanted first to give an
answer on future solider in general before getting on to the
specifics—[Laughter.] I know exactly what my right hon. Friend is
going to ask, because he has been assiduous in demanding more
troops at St Athan.
Before I get on to that, future soldier is good news for Wales,
bringing additional investment into the Army estate of around
£320 million. I know Brecon will be delighted that Brecon
barracks—the headquarters of the 160th (Welsh) Brigade—will be
retained. We have identified Caerwent training estate for
investment to host not one but two units—including the Queen’s
Dragoon Guards—and, in north Wales, a new reserve unit of the
Royal Welsh will be established in Wrexham.
I associate myself with the comments made about our friend and
colleague .
The Welsh Government’s refusal to extend the lease of the land at
MOD St Athan effectively blocked a new major military unit coming
to St Athan. What reassurance can the Minister give to the
soldiers based at west camp? Do the Welsh Government have any
right to the land on which they are based? If so, are they at
risk of being evicted in the same way as those soldiers who were
based at east camp?
No, they are not. The good news is that the Ministry of Defence
holds the freehold for the west camp land, which was not covered
by the historic agreement made with the Welsh Government. My
right hon. Friend has tackled me on this issue on so many
occasions, and I went to visit the camp. We could not put new
units into St Athan given the historic agreement with the Welsh
Government, but west camp is MOD freehold and we will retain our
forces there.
I associate myself with the tributes to . He was a true friend and a
credit to the House.
The Minister spoke about the future soldier programme in general
terms, which connects to the Armed Forces Act. He made a welcome
concession by agreeing to publish data on both investigations and
prosecutions at all stages of the service justice system. What
will the Government do if conviction rates for one or more of
these serious crimes are concerningly low? Will the Government
reconsider their approach and finally recognise that these cases
should be dealt with by the civilian judicial system, and what
impact does the Minister think that the Armed Forces Act 2021
will have on the Government meeting the target they have set
themselves for 30% of Army recruits to be—
Mr Speaker
Order. The question is not relevant to the main question.
I am sorry, Mr Speaker, but—
Mr Speaker
We will ignore that and go to .
Thank you, Mr Speaker. May I, too, pass on my condolences to
Jack’s family and friends? It is indeed a sad loss.
I am clutching at two words—Army estate—in asking this question.
On a recent visit to the Special Boat Service—our Marines special
forces—I was shocked to find that it does not have a proper
aquatic centre. Will my hon. Friend the Minister tell me and the
House when and if the Special Boat Service will get a proper
aquatic centre to do vital training in?
I am aware of the discussions and the proposal and I have seen
some suggestions, but I am not in a position to give any detail
to my hon. Friend at the moment. I will look into it and write to
him.
Withdrawal from Afghanistan: Inquiry
7. If he will make an assessment of the potential merits of
commissioning an inquiry into the UK’s withdrawal of personnel
from Afghanistan under Operation Pitting. (904825)
The Minister for the Armed Forces
The Foreign Affairs Committee has one up and running and the
Secretary of State for Defence will give evidence in two weeks’
time.
I have no doubt that that Committee is doing a very find job
indeed, but surely the damning evidence that it has received
makes a full independent inquiry all the more important, not less
so. Tens of thousands dead, millions facing humanitarian
disaster, democracy and human rights in tatters, and many of
billions of pounds spent—if that does not merit a full,
comprehensive independent inquiry, what on earth does?
I think that the whole House can agree that the service personnel
involved in Operation Pitting did an amazing job. I fear that the
hon. Gentleman’s wider question might be better addressed to
Foreign Office questions.
Awarding of Defence Contracts
10. What steps he is taking to ensure that contracts awarded by
his Department are (a) subject to open competition and (b)
accessible to domestic contractors. (904829)
The Minister for Defence Procurement
The defence and security industrial strategy provides a more
flexible approach to determine the right acquisition strategy for
any given capability, in line with our priorities and national
security requirements. Where tenders are used, they are designed
to be fair, open and certainly accessible to domestic
contractors.
Wight Shipyard Co. in my constituency recently raised with me its
concern about the niche criteria and very short timeframes for
the Ministry of Defence’s special purpose ship contract. Will my
hon. Friend reassure me that all MOD contracts are fairly given
out and fairly tendered to all contractors in the country,
including smaller contractors such as Wight Shipyard?
My hon. Friend is an assiduous advocate for the Island and he was
right to raise this issue with me before Christmas. I looked into
it and have written to him and another hon. Gentleman on the
subject. The requirement is for an existing vessel that can enter
service very quickly to help the Royal Navy perform, at pace,
trials on autonomy and the use of modular persistent operational
deployment systems. I am satisfied that the tender for this
vessel is fair and open. It has attracted a significant degree of
interest from a wide range of suppliers, and they will have to
compete along the lines outlined.
The Government are invariably keen to talk up their role in the
manufacturing success story of Scottish warship building, and the
Minister knows exactly the extraordinary private investment that
has been made by BAE on the Clyde and by Babcock at Rosyth, and
about the state of the art manufacturing process, equipment and,
crucially, apprenticeships. Will he now commit to rewarding that
investment by unequivocally ensuring that the fleet solid support
ships are built in whole, not in part, in Scottish and, if
necessary, other UK yards, and categorically commit to using UK
steel?
I think the hon. Gentleman should pay tribute to what this
Government are doing in terms of investment in shipbuilding. We
are a phenomenal investor in shipbuilding. BAE and Babcock are
doing a tremendous job, with a huge number of ships coming
through the production line. I am not going to prejudge a
tender—that would completely contradict what I said in my
previous remarks. However, if only the Scottish Government could
take a leaf out of our book in the way in which they work with
Ferguson’s, I think we would all be better off as a shipbuilding
industry.
Veterans Strategy
11. What assessment his Department has made of the effectiveness
of the veterans strategy. (904830)
The Minister for Defence People and Veterans
Since the veterans strategy was published in 2018, we have been
delivering for our veterans, including Op Courage in the NHS to
support veterans with their mental health, the veterans’
railcard, and a national insurance holiday for those employing
veterans. We continue to drive forward that agenda, with our
publication soon of a veterans strategy update, which will
recognise what a fantastic asset our veterans are.
In north Staffordshire we are very proud to house the Tri
Services and Veterans Support Centre led by Geoff Harriman and
supported by John Painter and Kathy Munslow, all of whom served
themselves and do a range of work to support our local
veterans—for example, the new veterans’ retreat set up in
Kidsgrove parish, bringing veterans together to take part in
archery, construction and even bee-keeping. I want to personally
thank Ron Jeffries, a local businessman who kindly donated some
of his land for this vision to become a reality. Will my hon.
Friend therefore applaud the work of Geoff, John, Kathy and Ron
in supporting our veterans and commit to visiting later this year
to show us his skills in the field?
I would be delighted to learn about the work of those people in
the parish of Kidsgrove—it sounds fantastic. I absolutely join my
hon. Friend to thank Geoff Harriman, John Painter, Kathy Munslow
and Ron Jeffries for their military service and all they continue
to do for veterans in the community. I also thank my hon. Friend
for the work he does to support our armed forces personnel. If
possible, I would be delighted to visit.
Last month the President of the United States signed off the
National Defense Authorization Act, which will ensure that US
atomic veterans receive a medal and an official day of
recognition for their service. Does the Minister agree that it is
time to end the UK’s shameful position as the only country not to
provide official recognition or compensation for nuclear
veterans, and to mark the 70th anniversary of Britain’s first
nuclear test by finally rewarding our courageous nuclear veterans
with the medals they so highly deserve?
We will keep this under review but we regard it as a matter for
the advisory military sub-committee on medallic recognition.
Topical Questions
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental
responsibilities.(904844)
The Secretary of State for Defence
Colleagues across the House are right to voice their concern
about Russia’s ongoing aggression towards Ukraine. While we are
hopeful for a positive outcome from this week’s diplomatic
efforts, we are preparing for all eventualities.
May I associate myself with the tributes to the hon. Member for
Birmingham, Erdington?
Time and again during this pandemic our armed forces have stepped
up, whether by building hospitals like the new Nightingale in
central Manchester, delivering vital supplies or getting jabs
into arms, and they are now doing it again by supporting our
world-leading booster programme. Does my right hon. Friend agree
with me that we should thank them for their amazing service and
encourage everybody to get that booster?
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend points out the other job that Defence does, which
is building this country’s resilience wherever one may be in the
United Kingdom. It is always important to remember that our armed
forces have a day job—a main job—of defending our country. When
we are out of this national crisis and pandemic, it will be
important to look at making sure that other people step up to
cover. In the long term Defence personnel are always there,
whether for floods, pandemic or other threats, and they will
continue to be so. That is why it was important that we put
soldiers and sailors at the heart of our Defence Command
Paper.
Today’s US-Russia talks in Geneva start a critical week of
dialogue over Ukraine. I assure the Secretary of State that we
fully support Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. As
a defensive alliance, it is clear that it is not NATO’s but
Russia’s actions that are dangerously escalating the current
tensions. What leading role is the UK playing to ensure that any
agreement on the talks is fully co-ordinated with NATO and with
European allies?
Mr Wallace
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his support. I will
continue to work with him, and the Leader of the Opposition, to
ensure that he is kept informed as much as we can on the
situation. That goes for the Scottish National party as well. I
have personally been to Ukraine five or six times in my time as
Security Minister and Defence Secretary. The lessons of
Afghanistan are that as we move together, whether as NATO or as a
coalition, we will continue to work with—
Mr Speaker
Order. Topicals are meant to be short, quick and effective. I
cannot get through the list if we are going to take them as
normal questions.
T2. The Future Soldier programme has delivered significant
investment for Wales, not least the extremely welcome decision to
keep Brecon barracks open. May I invite the Secretary of State to
come to Brecon and visit the home of the Army in Wales so that he
can see the operational significance of the barracks?(904845)
The Minister for Defence Procurement
I think my right hon. Friend will do so. I have been to Brecon
previously with my hon. Friend, who has campaigned relentlessly
to retain the barracks, and I was delighted to confirm that that
would be the case. It is the right decision for the Army, for
Wales and indeed for Brecon.
The Minister made a welcome concession at the end of the debate
on the Armed Forces Act 2021 to publish data about investigations
and prosecutions. What will the Government do if the conviction
rate for one or more of these serious crimes is concerningly low?
Will they reconsider their approach? What impact does the
Minister think the Act has had on meeting the target of 30% of
Army recruits being female by 2030, particularly given that the
current trends mean that that target will not be met until
2063?
Mr Wallace
The steps we have taken on judicial oversight, the Judge
Henriques review of the service justice system and implementing
the Lyons and Murphy reviews mean that we are confident that the
changes we have made to the service justice system mean that
cases will be better investigated, there will be a better quality
of law and that justice is delivered. We are also continuing the
work we are doing under Air Chief Marshal Wigston’s review to
make sure it is a better environment for women to serve in.
T3. We clearly face heightened risk and instability on multiple
fronts. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on our
readiness to deal with multiple potential flashpoints in
different arenas simultaneously?(904846)
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend is right. In anticipation of those training
situations, the Defence Command Paper in March and “The
Integrated Operating Concept 2025”, which preceded it, put in
place measures to ensure that our Army is more ready, more
forward and more deployable than it has ever been before, because
speed and readiness are the one of the best ways to deter our
adversaries.
T4. I am proud to have Erskine veterans home in my constituency.
I am also proud of the Scottish Government’s veterans fund and
their appointment of a Veterans Commissioner. Does the Minister
not feel that that should be replicated elsewhere on these isles
to ensure that the veterans community are properly represented in
decisions taken affecting their welfare?(904847)
The Minister for Defence People and Veterans
I am pleased to confirm that all the other nations of the United
Kingdom do indeed have veterans commissioners.
T6. Strengthening our defence relationships in the Indo-Pacific
will be essential to help maintain peace and stability in the
region. In that regard, what are we doing to strengthen our
defence relationship with Japan?(904850)
As my hon. Friend might be aware, we recently announced a closer
working relationship with Japan on elements of the future combat
air system programme. That followed on from talks that my right
hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I had last September in
Tokyo. The Japanese Government and we see a lot of benefit in
working together on defence equipment programmes.
T5. We now know that on 25 October, the RAF carried out a
targeted drone killing in Syria. Is that not a major shift in
policy? Why was Parliament not informed? When will the Secretary
of State set out the legal basis and criteria for that
strike?(904849)
Mr Wallace
Periodically we come to this House—either myself or the Foreign
Secretary—to update the House overall on Op Shader, and we
periodically inform the House of all strikes we make. If it has
not happened yet, it will happen very soon through the Cabinet
Office.
The Department is investing in emerging technologies around the
country as part of the defence supply chain. What steps is the
Minister taking to ensure that the next generation of armed
forces personnel, including those at the Army Foundation College
in Harrogate, are trained to take advantage of them?
I thank my hon. Friend for the question. We have more than 1,000
science, technology, engineering and mathematics—or
STEM—representatives. We ensure that about 90% of all
non-commissioned roles have the opportunity to take
apprenticeships, which go right the way across new areas of
skills, including STEM skills. That includes the outstanding
Harrogate College. From memory, part of the syllabus includes
space, autonomy and cyber. We are ensuring that we are absolutely
at the cutting edge.
T8. The rise of terrorism in sub-Saharan Africa is continuing and
poses a strategic threat to the United Kingdom. In that
context—given that the United States is probably downgrading
sub-Saharan Africa, and only France is totally committed—what
actions will the UK take to bring our allies together on this
issue?(904852)
The Minister for the Armed Forces
I am not sure I will accept that characterisation of the US
position. I thought Secretary Blinken’s speech in Abuja was very
encouraging. The UK is committed in east, west and southern
Africa, against not just the rise of violent extremism, which
concerns us enormously, but also increasingly how our competitors
and adversaries are using countries to develop their influence.
We see that as a bad thing in the long term, and we are seeking
to counter it.
If the closure of RAF Halton gets the go ahead—frankly, I do not
think it should—the largest town in Hertfordshire will have no
military capability on its boundaries. Is there any way we can
have a reserve capability—we need the reserves as we go
forward—at RAF Halton for the Army and the RAF?
Mr Wallace
My right hon. Friend makes an important point. I have asked to
look again at that and some of the rebasing options.
I thank the Minister for Defence Procurement for his letter on
the Navy’s special purpose vehicle and the changes he has made to
the procurement process, but that will not get us away from the
fact that the money has to be spent by March, which means that
the vessel will be built or procured from a Dutch company, Damen.
Why is he not backing British industry? As my right hon. Friend
the Member for Warley () said, this is a £10 million
contract that will go to a Dutch yard, rather than be spent in
the UK.
The right hon. Gentleman has already decided how our competition
will end, which is unwise. We have multiple potential providers
of a vessel that needs already to have been built, so we are
going through a buying process and we will see how that
procurement exercise ends.
May I commend my hon. Friend the Minister for Defence Procurement
for the care that he is taking in dealing with the challenges of
the Ajax contract, and for the transparency with which he is
keeping the House up to date with the problems? Does he agree
that the production contract, which was entered into in 2014, was
characterised by transferring risk to the contractor? Had we
followed the practice of the previous Labour Government,
trumpeted by the shadow Secretary of State, the risk would have
stayed with the Ministry of Defence and the taxpayer.
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Had this been like the
Nimrod situation, where £3.7 billion was wasted by the previous
Government and they attempted to blame it on us, that would have
been where we are, but we are not; we have a firm-price contract
with General Dynamics.
Redford barracks in my constituency has had another stay of
execution to 2025. As the UK Government seem unmoved by arguments
for retaining the defence estate in Scotland, will the Minister
consider transferring the land at Redford to the City of
Edinburgh Council so as to offset some of the economic impact of
the closure of the barracks?
Mr Wallace
The hon. and learned Lady fails to recognise that we have already
moved the 51st Brigade headquarters to Redford, so large parts of
the barracks will be retained. Also, Glencorse barracks, which
was due to be reduced, will be retained and increased on that
site. The investment going into Scotland, through new bases or by
securing existing bases, is incredibly important.
From foot and mouth disease to floods and the pandemic, our armed
forces have always stepped up in civilian emergencies, but the
lesson has always been that this needs to be done as early as
possible. Given recent experiences with Storm Arwen, does my hon.
Friend agree that measures need to be put in place across all
levels of Government so that the armed forces can be deployed in
civilian emergencies locally, strategically and quickly?
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We do have those mechanisms
already, with liaison officers in every local resilience forum.
The armed forces do an amazing job, whether responding to
flooding or, indeed, delivering 521,700 jabs last month alone as
part of the booster programme.
As a fellow trade unionist, was a dear friend. His final
fight in this place was for Afghan refugees, 13,000 of whom are
languishing in hotels—not exactly a warm welcome. Can the Defence
Secretary say exactly how he is deploying the defence estate and
Annington Homes to ensure that we home these refugees?
Mr Wallace
The hon. Member makes a very important point. I ask all Members
of this House to reach out to their local authorities, because a
lot of local authorities’ words have not been matched by action.
I have made available nearly 500 married quarters to those
individuals. Of course, very few local authorities were prepared
to take up the available married quarters in which to place the
refugees. It is important that we all get our local authorities
to pull together alongside the rest of the Government.
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