Extract from DCMS
Question: Touring musicians Support to
Work in Europe
(Ogmore) (Lab)
7. What progress the Government have made to help support
touring musicians work in
Europe.
(Pontypridd) (Lab)
13. What progress the Government have made to help support
touring musicians work in
Europe.
The Minister for Media, Data and Digital Infrastructure ()
We are working hard to help touring musicians to work in
Europe. Arrangements are, in many areas, much more workable than
has been reported. I am pleased to say that after this week’s
very good announcement from Spain, 21 member states now offer
visa and work routes for musicians and
performers. Accompanied portable musical instruments do not
require a carnet and splitter vans are not subject to EU cabotage
rules. We recognise, however, that challenges remain. I had a
very productive meeting with the sector yesterday to work through
remaining concerns. We also continue to work with the remaining
six member states that do not allow visa and permit-free
touring.
I appreciate what the Minister says in terms of Spain, although
it should be pointed out that the industry is saying that it has
been working with its counterparts in Spain and actually the
Government have not been terribly helpful, so it has been up to
the community themselves. The Minister mentions cabotage rules.
As she has been working with the industry, will she set out when
these issues will be resolved? It is all well and good having
meetings, but if things are not resolved, we are destroying
options for our talented musicians to travel
around Europe. They cannot take their speakers and mics and all
the other things that they need in order to do their jobs. The
Government really should be doing so much better on this
issue.
I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising his concerns. I reiterate
that there has been a real team effort on this. We have had
fantastic working with our embassy in Madrid, with the industry
and with Ministers from across Government, so I would push back
on that. We discussed some of the technical issues on
transportation only yesterday with the Department for Transport,
and there are various things that I am going to take away and
discuss with the Secretary of State for Transport. These are very
live issues. There is a debate later today where we can discuss
these things in more detail, should he be minded.
I wholeheartedly welcome the news that musicians will no
longer need visas to go on short-term tours in Spain, and I am
hugely grateful to those in the sector, particularly the
Association of British Insurers, orchestras and Live, who have
worked so tirelessly on the matter. This just goes to show that
these problems are not insurmountable and can be overcome.
However, as the Minister stated, there are still six member
states where problems persist. Will she provide an update on the
discussions she is having with those six member states so
that musicians and touring
bodies are able to carry out their work overseas?
Yes, we are hopefully going to use this moment with Spain to make
progress with the remaining countries. As there are only six
left, we think that we can make a lot of good progress, and we
will be having meetings accordingly.
Extract from Business
Questions
(Lewisham West and Penge)
(Lab)
Members on both sides of the House will be aware of the paltry
amounts paid in royalties to musicians from
streaming platforms. In contrast, the head of Universal Music is
set to earn more than £150 million in 2021—more than songwriters
and composers made from all UK music streaming, downloads and
sales put together in 2019. The Leader of the House will know
that my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West () has a private Member’s Bill
ready that would address the situation. Can he assure me that
sufficient time will be found to allow for the passage of my hon.
Friend’s Bill?
Mr Rees-Mogg
This is an issue that the Government take seriously, and it has
been considered by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State
for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport. The Digital, Culture,
Media and Sport Committee, of which the hon. Gentleman sponsoring
the Bill, the hon. Member for Cardiff West (), is a member, launched an
inquiry into the economics of music streaming, which heard from
key actors in the music industry, including artists, record
labels and streaming platforms.
The Committee’s report was published on 15 July and made several
recommendations to the Government for a broad set of regulatory
interventions, intended to address issues with artists’ streaming
royalties, and including a performer’s right to equitable
remuneration similar to that proposed in the Bill. However, the
Committee’s report did not provide sufficient evidence to support
legislative action. The impact of introducing a new equitable
remuneration right would be significant, so, while the Government
are not unsympathetic, more evidence is needed before any action
can be taken.
Westminster Hall debate
on Touring musicians EU Visas
and Permits
(Camberwell and Peckham)
(Lab)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered enabling visa- and permit-free
working for musicians in the
EU.
It is a great pleasure, Dr Huq, to see you in the Chair for this
debate, and I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for
agreeing to the application for this debate from myself and the
hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (), who is chair of the
all-party parliamentary group on music. That application had the
backing of the Chair of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
Committee, the hon. Member for Solihull (), and numerous MPs from all
parties, from Scotland, Wales and every region in England. The
concern is cross-party; the demand for Government action is
UK-wide.
The music sector is important to the UK, both culturally and
economically. It accounts for nearly 200,000 jobs and, at least
before covid, it was worth £5.8 billion, £2.9 billion of which
was generated in export revenue, with the EU being by far the
biggest market. The finances of the sector—both of individuals
and organisations—depend for a significant section of income on
touring in the EU, with a survey conducted just before covid
showing that 44% of musicians received up
to half their earnings in the EU. Our music sector financially
depends on touring in the EU.
Of course, we do not just look at this issue in economic terms.
We have to recognise the role that music plays in the very
quality of our lives, in the definition of our communities, and
in our ability to engage with our emotions, and to understand
ourselves and each other. Our music is precious and
our musicians should be
celebrated, protected and supported in their art. However, they
face a great problem that is not of their making, which is the
post-Brexit obstacle to touring in the EU.
A tour of Europe often needs to involve more than one country to
be viable and sometimes many countries. The problem is that for
British musicians to tour in
Europe now there are 27 different work permit regimes, 27
different visa regimes and 27 different requirements for proof of
the work that is going to be undertaken. That means hours spent
on forms and certificates, downloading bank statements and
acquiring certification and statements about the nature of the
work; days spent travelling to and sitting in consulates; weeks
spent waiting for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to process A1
forms to provide to employers in Europe; fees for applications;
and further expense and time to obtain musical instrument
certificates with expert verification that the instrument does
not consist of endangered wood or ivory, with the risk of the
instrument being confiscated if the paperwork is not in
order.
(Strangford) (DUP)
Does the right hon. and learned Lady believe that specialised
visa renewals for touring groups, which would streamline the time
and the cost for visa applications for working musicians would be a
step in the right direction, and if so would the Minister
consider that suggestion?
Ms Harman
We need to take all the steps in the right direction that we can,
and we look forward to hearing from the Minister. I thank the
hon. Gentleman for his contribution to the debate today.
There is time and cost involved. I recommend to the Minister that
she download and look at some of the forms that are required. I
have only four of them here, but they are of mind-boggling
complexity, and they are all different—that is the point. People
cannot just get the hang of doing one of them and then do it
again; they have to be done differently for every country, every
time. That means plans being curtailed and opportunities being
lost, and that is without even mentioning the dreaded cabotage
rules that prevent a lorry needed to carry instruments or
equipment from making more than three stops before returning back
to the UK. That does not fit with how touring bands or orchestras
work in just one country, let alone if they are touring a number
of countries.
Some 85% of the European concert trucking industry is based here
in the UK. Those firms will be put out of business or have to
relocate to Europe unless this matter is sorted.
(Solihull) (Con)
The industry was based in the UK, but, according to the
information that I have, a lot of it has already gone to Holland.
Although touring is not taking place at scale, the planning that
goes into touring is taking place right now. It is necessary to
get the rules changed now, and not when we discover we do not
have an industry left.
Ms Harman
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Time is not on our side.
We all recognise this is an immensely skilled and professional
industry that we should protect, and it should not have to move.
Our musicians and those who
work to support them are highly committed, resourceful and
skilled. They say there is a problem that they cannot solve and
they need Government action. The Government must reach agreements
with all EU countries for consistent regimes so that
our musicians can once
again tour freely in the EU. As the hon. Gentleman said, they
should do it quickly. Plans are being made in the EU that leave
out our sector.
(Bromley and Chislehurst)
(Con)
I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Lady for securing
this debate. I declare my interest as chair of the all-party
parliamentary group on opera. She has referred to touring bands
and orchestras, but there is also a real issue for singers and
freelancers. For an individual singer, especially a young singer,
trying to negotiate the forms is nigh on impossible. A production
of “Peter Grimes”, the great Benjamin Britten opera, which
requires an English-speaking cast at the Teatro Real in Madrid,
was in jeopardy for months before eventually a workaround was
achieved. Even though the situation in Spain has improved, in
many places it is very difficult for British singers, and they
are not getting the bookings. Bookings for opera companies are
made years in advance, which is why we need certainty now.
Ms Harman
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about that. Plans are
being made, and if the Government do not move quickly some
organisations will become unviable. Some musicians at the top of
their career will feel their best option is to relocate to
Europe, and we do not want them to have to do that. Many of the
next generation of musicians will never
have the opportunity to get into the profession, and to develop
their careers, without the financial and artistically important
benefits of working in Europe. Whether it is established artists
or those just starting out, big organisations or freelancers, our
music sector needs the cultural creativity that they get from
working in Europe. We do not want to become a musical Galápagos
with our musicians locked out of
the cultural partnership that is so important for creative
development.
I hope the Minister will recognise the weight of opinion, which
includes Sir Elton John, Sir Simon Rattle, Howard Goodall, Sting,
Judith Weir, Nicola Benedetti, Ed Sheeran, the Sex Pistols, Roger
Daltrey, Bob Geldof, Brian May and many more. I pay tribute to
the work done by the organisations demanding Government action:
the Musicians’ Union, UK Music, the Association of British
Orchestras, BECTU, the Incorporated Society of musicians and Carry on
Touring, to name just a few. They all call for a concerted
response from the Government to support the sector while matters
are being sorted out.
The Prime Minister has said that there is a problem and he
promised to fix it. I have talked to the new Secretary of State
for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport. She knows about this and I
know she wants to sort it. We are genuinely not looking for a
political row. We only want a solution, but we need absolute
clarity and honesty from the Government. There is no point in
telling the sector that the problem is solved if it clearly is
not. There is no point in the Government just issuing more
guidance. Those involved in the music sector do not need to be
told what the problem is. They know only too well and they need
the Government to sort it.
(Orkney and Shetland)
(LD)
Like others, I congratulate the right hon. and learned Lady on
securing this debate. I agree with everything that she has said,
but there is an aspect that she has not touched on—the festivals
around the country. In Orkney we have the world-famous St Magnus
festival in June, which was founded by the late Sir Peter Maxwell
Davies. In Shetland, we have the Shetland folk festival. Those
are community-enterprises, albeit highly professional ones. The
administrative burden for them from having to deal with visas of
the sort that the right hon. and learned Lady has already pointed
out will be phenomenal. That cultural growth would be an enormous
loss for our communities.
Ms Harman
I completely agree with the right hon. Gentleman’s point. We have
to think of the impact of those coming into this country: we need
them to be part of our music sector here.
I welcome the Minister to her place and I wish her well in her
work. If she wants any help to get this sorted, we are all here
to help and do whatever we can to back her up on this. I look
forward to hearing from her this afternoon that she acknowledges
the scale and nature of the problem, and that she will deliver on
the Prime Minister’s promise. I know she will have to work with
many other Departments. No pressure, but we are looking to her to
deliver. We want to hear from her what progress she has already
made, and what further progress she anticipates the Government
will make in respect of which countries and by when.
(in the Chair)
This is a very popular debate. In fact, my name is on the
original list of people speaking in it. To allow the Mother of
the House, the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and
Peckham (Ms Harman), time to wind up, the first Front-Bench
spokesperson will start at 3.58 pm. If everyone can keep within a
five-minute time limit, everyone will get in.
15:11:00
(Somerton and Frome)
(Con)
It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Dr Huq, and it is a
pleasure to follow the Mother of the House, the right hon. and
learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman). I
congratulate her on her words, on her continuing efforts in this
area and on securing this important debate.
We should not be having this debate. It is endlessly amazing to
me that the public consciousness, the media and the press can,
day after day, follow the intricacies of fisheries and the
arguments over the European Union and fishing rights, for
example, but the music industry, which employs more people than
the fishing and steel industries combined, hardly gets a look
in.
We ought not to be having this debate because this should have
been wrapped up long ago, but, on leaving the EU, the trade and
co-operation agreement very much focused itself on goods rather
than services, so cultural touring was left a little behind. I
know the Prime Minister has openly committed to working flat out
to solve the problem, and progress has been made, particularly
this week with Spain, but we have a long way to go. The problem
is not only the practicalities of UK musicians artists,
crew and creatives from other sectors touring the EU, but the
perception that this is a niche, side issue and not one that we
need to firmly address.
Looking at the facts, employment in the music sector has dropped
by 35%, with revenues almost halving in the last year. We were
riding high before the pandemic. The sector grew by 11% in 2019,
far beyond the rest of the economy, not only dragging the rest of
the economy behind it, but flying the flag as well, by
demonstrating the creative skill of the UK.
The EU is our most vital market. The European Commission itself
said that UK acts “dominated the European panorama”, and that
must continue. In order for it to continue, the uncertainties
around cabotage, carnets, visas and work permits need to be
resolved, not only in a purely logistical sense but because
without the certainty, as we have heard, that comes from knowing
that artists, orchestras, musicians and all their
retinue can travel freely and work, it is impossible for them to
book ahead and have the confidence to look forward.
Any work in any EU member state is still restricted. Although we
have had good news and there may be only six EU member states
with which we now need to organise work permits, we are still
restricted to 90 in 180 days over all member states. For example,
Austria allows only four weeks of permit-free working and Poland
allows only 30 days for every 12 months. There are other
restrictions. Any musician playing in France must be employed by
a registered venue, and might be required to register in the host
state.
The costs are also prohibitive. The cost of a Greek visa is £68
per person, and then there is the £300 cost of a carnet for an
unaccompanied instrument. We are talking about hundreds or even
thousands of pounds once there are a significant number
of musicians to get on the
road.
Then there is the cabotage. UK trucks are allowed to make only
three stops, which is logically impossible and ridiculous. As we
have heard, we are losing jobs as hauliers move from the UK to
the EU. We have no carnet waiver agreement with the EU—which we
need. musicians need to
source carnets well in advance of travel and get them physically
signed off by border officials. EU musicians do not have
to face that on entering the UK. That means that, while
established artists or large orchestras can probably manage the
mountain of paperwork, tick all the boxes and get on the road,
artists who are starting out, new or breaking new ground really
do not stand a chance. That means that we will see a further
decline in the future dominance of UK culture; our future will
not be as successful as our past.
I am chair of the all-party parliamentary group on music, and
next week we are beginning an inquiry into these very issues,
taking evidence from every part of the industry and, I hope,
getting some pretty major stars as well—to sparkle the thing up.
I know that conversations have been had and I understand the
difficulties of negotiating with 27 member states, but we have to
have clarity, fairness and equity for cabotage, cultural waivers
and visas. If we do not solve the issues that the industry is
experiencing, we will not only harm ourselves and the industry
through even more unnecessary stress and job losses to the EU,
but we will lose talent, lose our influence, lose our upper hand
and—importantly—lose our leadership on the international
stage.
15:16:00
(Pontypridd) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Huq,
particularly on a topic that quite clearly means so much to
Members and their constituents across the country. I congratulate
my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and
Peckham (Ms Harman) and the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome
() on securing this very
important debate. I have said it a number of times—colleagues
across the border may refute my claims—but music really is such a
unique part of Welsh culture and identity. We have obviously seen
some fantastic musicians from across
Wales have great success across Europe and the world over the
years, too. Indeed, it is about time that we recognise both the
cultural and economic benefits that musicians and their
craft bring to our nation. While I am hesitant to make reference
to the undisputed king of Wales, Sir Tom Jones, this early on in
a debate—it’s not unusual—it would be remiss of me to ignore the
incredible influence he has had on so many artists, big and
small, in Wales and beyond.
When we speak about musicians touring in
the EU, we must also be clear to establish that there are also
artists at the very start of their careers hoping to catch a big
break overseas. As we have heard, there are the further
complications when considering the needs of orchestras, or brass
bands, such as the incredible Cory Band based in the constituency
of my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (), who travel with large
instruments or require advanced technical support. The vast
majority of brass bands are led by volunteers who have day jobs;
they are unable to navigate and circumvent the necessary
paperwork and arbitrary requirements needed to travel to all
these countries.
The success of our music industry has been well documented in
this place, but it really is remarkable that the UK—as small as
we physically are—is currently the second biggest exporter of
music in the world. It comes as no surprise to learn that Europe
is our industry’s closest and most important international
market. Put simply, it is not a market we should be seeking to
cut off. We all know that European touring has become more
expensive, more complicated and more difficult to execute. What
is even more frustrating is that the confusion, lack of clarity
and co-ordination over the requirements of the 27 EU member
states for touring musicians was clearly
an oversight by the UK Government during the negotiation period.
The UK’s live music industry is completely reliant on
low-friction barriers to entry and movement, allowing tours to
move through countries seamlessly and quickly. However, as the
world slowly begins to unlock from the restrictions that
coronavirus has placed on us all, I fear that our creative sector
will continue to pay the price for this ignorance and
inaction.
As it stands, UK musicians and their
teams are not able to tour around a fifth of Europe—six out of 27
member states—without obtaining certain visas and work permits
far in advance. In an industry where last minute changes to tour
itineraries are particularly frequent, how on earth can we expect
that to be viable, particularly for smaller artists and groups
whose income is solely reliant on revenue generated from their
live music performances? Once again, the Government are widely
missing the mark, especially given their recent celebration of
the fact that 21 EU member states do not require visas or work
permits.
The industry has known about these restrictions for some time now
and have been leading on the campaign to increase visa free
access across the EU. I must take the opportunity to congratulate
the sector, and in particular the Association of British
Orchestras and LIVE on their recent success in Spain. Instead of
seeing meaningful policy developments from the UK Government to
help the industry back on its feet, we see them disingenuously
taking credit for the actions of the sector. Touring in the EU is
a critical way for new and emerging artists of all genres to gain
valuable experience, build their fan base and secure an income,
but the artists are now being blocked due to financial barriers
and a lack of information and support to navigate the
process.
To conclude, sadly the points raised today are not particularly
new—many of them have been repeatedly raised by colleagues across
the House time and again. musicians really want
to get back out there, and I know, from the popularity of today's
debate, that most colleagues across the political divide want to
support the industry. Now really is the time for the Minister’s
Department to act, particularly as the Government have dragged
their heels on this issue for too long. I sincerely hope the
Minister will take our pleas seriously, and I look forward to
hearing her plans to tackle this worrying problem, which is
impacting musicians up and down
the country.
15:20:00
(Glasgow North) (SNP)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq. I
congratulate the Mother of the House—the right hon. and learned
Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman)—and the hon. Member
for Somerton and Frome () on securing the debate,
although it is regrettable that we are here at all.
Years ago, in 2016, just after the Brexit referendum, I used to
joke that this place should be renamed Brexit Minister Hall,
because we spent so much time debating the ins and outs of the
Brexit negotiating process, and here we are again. Despite all
the assurances that we received in those days, it is plain that
if Brexit had not happened, we simply would not be having this
debate.
The difficulties that our musicians and
performing artists are experiencing, the damage it is doing to
their careers, the talent that is being wasted and the economic
opportunities that are being missed are all because of
Brexit—particularly the desperately hard Brexit driven through by
this Government with a flagrant disregard for anyone who might be
harmed by it or disagree with that approach. The problems that
everyone has spoken about, and that we will continue to hear
about, simply did not exist before the end of January 2020. I am
sorry to drift slightly from the consensual tone with which the
Mother of the House opened this debate, but I think that has to
be said. This mess is entirely of the Government’s making, so the
responsibility for resolving it lies entirely with them.
We have heard about the industry’s value to the country as a
whole; it employs more people than the steel and fisheries
industries combined but, perhaps because it is not as
concentrated—or not as concentrated in Conservative marginal
seats—we are not hearing quite so much interest or action. Where
is the summoning of the ambassadors, which we have seen recently
to resolve certain disputes in the fishing industry?
I have a huge concentration—a massive wealth—of talent, and
indeed of economic wealth, for at least some of the music
industry, in Glasgow North. It is home to some of the finest
venues and most famous artists in Scotland, but also to some of
the smaller venues—an incubator for real future talents. The
European tour is a hugely important part of the nurturing of that
future talent and, as we have heard, the opportunities are simply
drying up.
I have been wearing the mask of the Kinnaris Quintet, some of
whom are based in my constituency—five of the finest young
Scotswomen traditional music performers in the country—and their
experiences are sadly being replicated all over the country. Jenn
Butterworth, one of my constituents, said,
“as a musician I feel pretty let down by the government as I
heard there was a possibility we could have been allowed visa
free travel and it was denied by our own govt in the
negotiations”.
Another said,
“we’re totally in limbo with lots of things in the diary... we’re
losing any prospect of reaching audiences in Europe.... One
production was a main source of income and now the costs, hurdles
to climb, uncertainties were just too much of a headache for the
French promoters, so they decided to sack all the participants
who didn’t hold European passports.”
I heard of their desperate search for Irish ancestry, or some
other European connection, because there is now a distinct
advantage to having dual citizenship for people in this
country. musicians without that
are increasingly finding it difficult, with stories of agents
simply passing by artists who do not have straightforward visa
access to Europe.
On fees and taxes, one of the bands that I spoke to said that if
they want to go to Germany, they have to pay a 19% tax on any
goods brought into the country. That means all their
merchandise—they do not know whether they will sell it or not,
but they have to pay that tax upfront. Those sales would have
covered some of their living costs, accommodation and food while
they were on the road, and all of that is thrown into complete
uncertainty.
We have already heard about the challenge of acquiring carnets,
and all the costs that go with that. It is a particular
problem—again, as we have heard—for orchestras or other large
bands or ensembles. Previous models, based on freedom of
movement, are simply unviable now.
There are solutions if the Government are willing to work for
them, such as the 10-point plan circulated by the office of the
Mother of the House, which I fully endorse. The Government should
meet industry bodies, such as the Association of British
Orchestras, UK Music, the Musicians’ Union, LIVE, the
Incorporated Society of musicians and the Scots
music forums, get them all round the table and hear from them
first hand.
A benefit of Brexit was supposed to be global opportunities, but
I do not see easyJet flights to Australia appearing anytime soon.
I am not sure how anyone is supposed to go on the road to the end
of the Earth to promote their talent, so that argument falls flat
on its face. It is not immediately impossible to undo Brexit, but
there is a reason why support for independence is growing in
Scotland, not least among our cultural and music sectors. It is
our route back in—our lifeboat, literally and metaphorically—to
get back across the channel and thrive in the way that we ought
to be able to.
(in the Chair)
The good news is that with drop-outs, including myself, we have
stretched the time limit to seven minutes. I call the Chair of
the Select Committee, .
15:26:00
(Solihull) (Con)
I will luxuriate in my seven minutes. It is a great pleasure to
serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq. It does not seem long ago
that we came into this place and swore oaths next to each other.
Here we are, only a few years later, two old lags—if I may be so
bold.
(in the Chair)
Speak for yourself!
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome () and the Mother of the
House, the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and
Peckham (Ms Harman), for securing the debate. I concur entirely
with her speech, which was conciliatory and thoughtful. I hope
that the Minister takes that tone away from the debate: it is not
a party political matter, but a matter of looking after our
constituents, our wider cultural impact and, frankly, global
Britain. Without these industries, we are not global Britain
anymore.
I will make some brief observations. We have heard about the
enormous flurry of paperwork and the unworkable and patchwork
system that is in place. The Select Committee has been aware of
the issue for a long time. We invited to appear before us at the start
of the year, but he refused. It was only after pinning the Prime
Minister down in the Liaison Committee on 24 March that he said
will appear and we will get this
sorted. eventually appeared in June or
July after avoiding the Committee for a long time, but in that
whole time, there have been only four official bilateral
meetings, one of which was on the morning of his appearance by
some strange coincidence—that is one every two months.
I know that conversations have taken place, however, and that the
Minister’s predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport
(), was, after initially
trying to get her head around the issue, committed to it. She
told us some good stories about how she would track people down
at conference and try to have conversations, but there was always
a feeling that there was a road block in the shape of .
It seemed that the issue was being drawn into the general feeling
of antagonism between us and the EU, which was unnecessary. This
is not a confected row to bring about a Jim Hacker sausage moment
in politics in terms of the Northern Ireland protocol. That
should have nothing to do with this issue, which is about
people’s livelihoods and our place in the world.
It is utterly farcical that we are 20 miles away from Europe and
yet, in the case of at least six nations, we have the same rights
of travel and access for brilliant creatives—not
just musicians but whole
swathes of people across industries—as people coming from the
Cook Islands on the other side of the world. That is a ridiculous
situation.
I say to the Minister that she is pushing at an open door.
Provided that we keep the issue out of the mess that is going on
with Northern Ireland, which I believe we can, there is an
enormous willingness across the EU to talk to us bilaterally,
because they also want our talent there—they miss it. We have
such a fantastic reservoir of talent. They want people to be
there and to enjoy that cultural exchange. My hon. Friend the
Member for Bromley and Chislehurst ( ) spoke about opera. I was
talking to a lady who is one of the world’s leading lights at the
Vienna opera house. She is struggling to get work there. This is
a person of such huge, global talent that she is called upon
everywhere.
My hon. Friend makes such an important point. We forget just how
significant the status of British artists is in the opera
field—not only the leading stars, such as he refers to, but the
young singers who cut their teeth in the repertoire houses in
Germany and the festivals in Europe. They are losing out because
of an inflexibility and a lack of joined-up Government between
the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport and the
Cabinet Office, and that has to change.
My hon. Friend is singing from the same song sheet as I am. There
is perhaps a misperception—we often talk about this on the Select
Committee—of the importance of DCMS to our economy. My hon.
Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome referenced it, but to
put it into real figures the DCMS sector is worth 23% of the
economy. The Government are around 40% to 45% of the economy—it
depends on where one is in the United Kingdom. DCMS is 0.5% of
Government spending. When it has a few million quid, it has to go
the Treasury—it is in the same building—and say, “Please can we
do this?”
There is an idea within Government, and has been, I would say,
for many years, that these industries are mendicants, always
asking for hand-outs. That may be true of the Royal Opera House,
but our creative sectors are the model of leanness and
competitiveness. They have learned to survive without hand-outs
over a long period. My view—this may be where I depart from
Opposition Members—is that that has been of enormous benefit to
their long-term health and robustness, but they cannot deal with
the red tape and the lack of access and ability to work. I am a
free-marketarian. This is not a free market because of
circumstance and perhaps a lack of focus and will in certain
parts of Government, though not within DCMS.
We have allowed a situation to occur where we are helping to
damage industries in which we have a competitive advantage. There
is an economic law of competitive cost advantage. The reason why
we are really good is because we have the English language and a
great history of creativity. We should invest in areas where we
have a competitive cost advantage. We no longer have one in many
industries, but we do in this one. Without the music industry and
film production, the UK economy, pre pandemic, would have been in
recession for four of the previous six years. That is why it is
vital that we get this moving, because we will discover the
damage that has been done only when it is too late.
There also may be a bit of sniffiness about the industry. We all
remember during the pandemic the quickly withdrawn advert showing
a ballerina whose next job was as an IT consultant. I am not
dissing IT consultants, but being a ballerina is fantastic, top
of the tree, and something that we should be proud of in this
country. There are Members in the Chamber who really want to work
with the Minister and see this happen, because we care about our
constituents and our country, and we know that these are areas in
which we can have genuine advantage and push ourselves forward.
We have effectively given them a no-deal Brexit. We now need to
mend that by dealing with the cabotage through the EU and having
bilaterals to get this sorted.
15:34:00
(Bristol East) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Dr Huq, although it is
a shame that you are not contributing to the debate because I
know what a music fan you are. I do not think that I have to
declare my membership of the Musicians’ Union but I will,
although, as I always say on such occasions, I have no musical
talent whatsoever, unlike some of my colleagues who are speaking
in the debate.
The fact that we are here in November 2021—well over five years
since the UK voted to leave the European Union—is a damning
indictment of the Government’s failure to prepare for the
consequences of Brexit. I think that is, in part, political. The
Government just did not want to concede that there could be
negative consequences to no longer having freedom of movement and
to leaving the market. I have seen that in other sectors, too—the
labour shortages in food and farming, for example—and the ostrich
approach of burying our head in the sand has had real
consequences for the people who are affected.
That approach has included ignoring the warnings from the
industry. As my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for
Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) said, so many people from
across the industry—not just performers, but road crew, lighting
engineers, truck drivers and so on—have come forward to try to
tell the Government that action is needed, but there has been a
refusal to host anything by way of meaningful discussions. An EU
official told The Guardian in January that when the EU proposed a
standard range of travel exemptions,
“the UK refused to engage in our discussions at all”.
I know there was a bit of to-ing and fro-ing and trying to blame
one another for that, but according the EU sources, by June, the
UK had still made no approach to remove travel barriers for
creative workers.
As well as being political, I think there is an element of
incompetence to the Government’s approach. Quite frankly, that is
a hallmark of this Government. It is also another sign of the
Government’s failure to acknowledge the importance of our
creative industries. We have heard about the statistics and the
pound signs attached to those industries: we are the world’s
second-biggest exporter of music, with an export revenue of £2.9
billion. The value of music, as others have said, is far greater
than that. We not only have some of the biggest-selling music
artists in the world, but some of the best—those are not
necessarily the same thing.
I remember, when I was a student in what was then Leningrad, in
the summer of 1984, being besieged by young Russians who were
just absolutely desperate to find out more about UK music, which
was a lifeline to them and their connection to the west. I
remember being asked, on the beach on the bank of the Neva river,
how many children Paul McCartney had. I must admit, I did not
know, and it was before the internet, but that just shows the
soft power connected to our worldwide reputation for music.
We also know that the sector has been incredibly hard hit by
covid, which is all the more reason why the Government should
pull out all the stops to get it back on its feet. To an extent,
the Government have been saved by covid, because people being
unable to tour has masked the impact of Brexit on the live music
sector. Now that we have, I hope, emerged from the worst of the
pandemic, it is absolutely vital that the Government step up the
pace on progress.
I am pleased that we have made some progress on visas, although I
think it is a bit audacious for the Secretary of State to try to
claim credit for that. We need agreements with the remaining six
member states, and we also need bilateral discussions, because at
the moment, any work is still restricted over all member states
to a total of up to 90 days in any 180 days. As we have heard,
there is still so much bureaucracy around that.
I will mention carnets and merchandise briefly. We have heard
about the costs of taking unaccompanied instruments across
borders—those costs are just for the paperwork. We know that
smaller and up-and-coming bands in particular do not have
lawyers, agents and managers to do all that for them; they have
to deal with it themselves, and it is a real deterrent. Tim
Burgess from the Charlatans tweeted earlier this week that the
band was unable to sell any merchandise during its recent Dublin
gig. We know that so many bands rely on merchandise to make a
living because of streaming and everything else.
I will finish by talking about cabotage, as I know that that is
what is expected of me as a member of the shadow Transport team.
UK tour trucks made up close to 80% of the EU market prior to
2016 and Brexit. The three-stop rule for UK trucks forces them to
re-route back to the UK, which is incredibly costly and
time-consuming if they bother to do so, but most do not, making
UK-led tours impossible. The band Public Service Broadcasting
recently had to book a German bus for their European
tour—something that they described as maddeningly stupid and
self-harming. Big US acts have traditionally started their EU
tours in the UK, so they fly into Heathrow, pick up the trucks,
road crew, sound, lighting, caterers—everything—here. Why would
they do that now? They are just going to go to Germany or
somewhere else.
We have seen limited progress. The small splitter trucks have
been ruled exempt from cabotage rules, and cabotage easement has
seen inbound rules suspended on EU-flagged trucks to help the HGV
crisis here, but that makes things even worse for UK music
hauliers, as it is not reciprocal. UK hauliers have had no
Government support to relocate to the EU either—I do not want
them to relocate to the EU, but that proposal was put forward by
the Government as an answer to the problems back in the earliest
stage of the negotiations—so they cannot get around the
restrictions that way. The music industry is part of what makes
this country great. Why would we want to throw out an integral
part of that, and tell it to go and set up shop in France,
Germany or Portugal?
UK Music is calling for a derogation from cabotage for all trucks
used for cultural events, so I conclude by asking the Minister
whether there are active discussions in her Department and the
Department for Transport about this issue. When I have tried to
talk to the DFT, it has told me that it is a matter for her
Department, but when I have tried to talk to her Department, it
has told me that it is a matter for the DFT. I rather feel that
that has left a big, gaping void in which there are no
discussions at all.
(in the Chair)
I call the only person I know who had an album out last week:
.
15:41:00
(Cardiff West) (Lab)
That is very kind, Dr Huq. I have yet to receive an invitation to
tour Europe with the album, but who knows after today? Given that
I am entitled to an Irish passport because of my father’s
birthplace, perhaps I will be able to do so eventually. I declare
my membership of the Musicians’ Union and the financial support
that it gave me at the last election. I am also a member of the
Ivors Academy, and have some small earnings from MP4, the world’s
only parliamentary rock group—as you know, Dr Huq.
I congratulate the Mother of the House, my right hon. and learned
Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), on her
tenacity in pushing forward this issue over the last year or so,
for not letting it go and for not letting the Government off the
hook. The fact that she brings her immense experience and
powerful advocacy to the issue is important to musicians across the
country, who are all immensely grateful to her for her
campaigning.
Everyone is right: a tremendous variety of artists from the UK of
different musical styles and genres tour Europe, from major
orchestras, to the up-and-coming opera singer mentioned by the
hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst ( ), to the young
singer-songwriter with an acoustic guitar and an easyJet ticket,
with no support, but perhaps a few T-shirts and CDs inside their
pull suitcase. It is an incredibly varied landscape, and the
Government do not seem to have grasped the importance of that
from the outset. And yet, it could have been so different.
I remember being in this very Chamber in January 2020 with the
former Minister, the right hon. Member for Selby and Ainsty
(), who was the predecessor of
the Minister here with us today. I welcome the new Minister to
her place; I do not think we have had the opportunity to have a
debate before, but I look forward to our exchanges over the
coming months and years. The former Minister said:
“Touring is the lifeblood of the industry… It is essential that
free movement is protected for artists post 2020.”—[Official
Report, 21 January 2020; Vol. 670, c. 56WH.]
It was official Government policy in January 2020, just after we
had left the European Union, that there was free movement for
artists across the European Union. What went wrong? Why did that
not get translated?
The hon. Member for Solihull (), the Chair of the Select
Committee, put it well. Our experiences of dealing with to try to untie this issue and
get some movement on it were immensely frustrating. Not only were
there delays, to which the Chair of the Select Committee
referred, but when appeared before the Select
Committee, he said, in contrast to what the Minister’s
predecessor said in this Chamber on the record in Hansard:
“We do not agree with permanent visa waivers because they deprive
us of control over our immigration system.”
That is the root of this. The issue is not about immigration, but
about our creative industries, cultural exchanges and the touring
of artists across Europe and across the United Kingdom. That is
being conflated with an argument about freedom of movement and
immigration, which has nothing to do with it.
In all my 20 years in Parliament, I have never heard anyone on
the doorstep say, “What are you going to do about all these
Polish violinists coming over here and entertaining our people?
It’s an absolute disgrace. When are you going to do something
about it?”. It is nonsense, yet we have changed from the position
of the former Minister, on the essentiality of freedom of
movement for artists to be able to work, to a position where the
Government are saying, “We don’t believe in this because it
undermines our immigration system.” What a load of nonsense and
what a way to treat this hugely important part of our
economy.
The creative industry is the fastest growing part of our economy
and, as the hon. Member for Solihull rightly said, it is an
important export earner for this country. It is an industry in
which we have a comparative advantage and of which we can be
proud. The industry brings immense prestige to this country in
the soft power it exerts, as well as in the hard-line economic
benefits we get from it.
Frankly, that has been the problem. The Prime Minister said at
the Liaison Committee that he will “strain every sinew”, and he
promised to fix it, yet a couple of months later this issue,
which he said is so important that he will put his full weight
behind it, was not even on the agenda of the first meeting of the
Partnership Council in relation to Brexit. The Government, as an
afterthought, included it as any other business, as had to explain when he came
before the Select Committee.
I know that this is not within the Minister’s power, but perhaps
she can pass it on to her colleagues. Will the Government take
this issue off ? Let us get him a million miles
away from this issue as quickly as possible. Give it to a senior
Minister, or even an up-and-coming, able and talented junior
Minister, which I am sure the Minister is. Give it to somebody
with a cross-Government remit to sort out all the issues between
Departments. We have heard about the Government not acting in
concert or in harmony on this issue. Give it to somebody who can
sort it out, not . I am not a believer in
nominative determinism but, let us face it, has had a chilling effect on
this issue. It is fixable, so let us fix it.
15:47:00
(Vauxhall)
(Lab/Co-op)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Huq. I pay
tribute to the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome () and my right hon. and
learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms
Harman).
Like Camberwell and Peckham, Vauxhall is home to a thriving music
scene and there are reminders of our musical past and present
throughout my constituency. I am sure many hon. Members have
visited the O2 Academy to see the wide range of musicians from around
the world who have performed there.
Perhaps the most famous tribute in my constituency is the mural
of David Bowie just outside Brixton station. David is one of
Brixton’s most famous sons, having grown up on the boundary
between Brixton and Stockwell. He attended Stockwell Primary
School until the age of six, and he went on to be a worldwide
cultural icon. Like many musicians of his time,
he travelled up and down the country to play his music and draw
inspiration.
Famously, David lived in Berlin for three years. During that
time, as some hon. Members will remember, he recorded “Heroes”, a
song telling the tale of lovers on either side of the Berlin wall
at a time when people as young as 18 were shot for simply trying
to cross the border. A decade later, David gave an emotional
performance of “Heroes” close enough to the wall for thousands of
young people on either side to listen and sing along. When he
died in 2016, the German Foreign Office paid tribute to him by
linking to his performance and praising him for his work in
bringing down the wall.
That shows the valuable contribution of our music. Music is
perhaps one of our most crucial and valuable exports, and it has
a profound political impact across the world. However, that only
happens when our musicians can travel
freely across Europe and across the world. It is not just the big
bands that create such cultural capital, but the many smaller
touring bands, orchestras and freelancers. They all give British
music a unique standing in the world.
I cannot claim to have a record like my hon. Friend the Member
for Cardiff West (), but I can claim to have
played the melodica at primary school—and to have played it very
badly. However, I want to pay tribute to the cultural hub that is
the South Bank Centre, home of the Royal Festival Hall, in my
constituency. It supports so many young people from right across
my constituency, from that of my right hon. and learned Friend
the Member for Camberwell and Peckham, and from many other
constituencies. Before covid, it hosted an annual music festival
put on by the Lambeth Music Service, which saw over 3,000 young
people coming together, performing and playing a range of
instruments. That is how we support our young people to get
active in music, so that they can fulfil their ambitions and
professions. That will not happen if these barriers stay in
place.
Not allowing our musicians to travel not
only weakens our position internationally but severely impacts
the income streams of many performers. After such a desperate few
years, our musicians are crying
out to perform. They want to do what they know best: they want to
play to the crowds; they want to support local businesses; they
want to support local residents; they want to be able to employ
people to start their careers. That will happen only if we
support them from the outset.
It is not right that our musicians are missing
out on vital touring opportunities. The Government have to
listen. I ask the Minister to listen to all of us—this issue has
cross-party support—and to the Musicians’ Union and others, and
to reach an agreement so that our musicians can
travel freely.
15:51:00
(Ochil and South Perthshire)
(SNP)
I thank the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and
Peckham (Ms Harman) and the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome
() for securing the debate.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Huq. I always
say that; I do not always mean it. In this case, I wholeheartedly
do.
Oh, my goodness—here we are again! The needle is stuck. The
arguments go round and round. I realise that I have spoken about
this issue in the House six times over the past 12 months; let us
hope that this is our farewell tour. We have today heard some
very familiar lyrics, and as plaintive as ever. We know that
swathes of the creative industry are suffering directly as a
result of Brexit, with endless bureaucracy.
, that living rebuke to the
unelected Brussels bureaucrat, fessed up at the Digital, Culture,
Media and Sport Committee, and told us that the sector had been
thrown under the Brexit tour bus mid-negotiation. Even Brexiteers
booed metaphorically. As we have heard, only the richest artists
can navigate the endless red tape and visa costs. But they are
not all Elton. DCMS Ministers were not even a support act in
those negotiations.
How did we get to this place? The much-trailed bespoke deal that
the UK proposed had no precedent, as Ministers told us at the
time. The Incorporated Society of musicians warned
that the EU would not sign up to it. Instead, the EU offered a
standard visa waiver, the UK said no, and we found ourselves in
this mess—artists abandoned for Brexit zealotry.
As the disastrous consequences of the hard Brexit that the UK
Government were imposing on the sector dawned, the then Culture
Secretary, the right hon. Member for Hertsmere (), sprang into action, setting
up the creative and cultural touring project, with the aim of
striking 27 separate touring visa deals with EU countries. The
group met a grand total of once, in January. When the hon. Member
for Gosport (), then a Minister,
appeared before the DCMS Committee on 16 February, she confirmed,
shockingly, that no negotiations with EU member states had
begun—lethargy, torpor, lazy chaos. Even today, six EU countries
have no visa waiver arrangements with the UK. Carnets and other
customs controls are delaying artists and their crews.
Contingency days need to be scheduled into tours—needless Brexit
bureaucracy, needless Brexit bills.
For wealthy artists, this is manageable, but for our new talent
it is not. Music is perhaps these islands’ greatest export, but
if we lock young artists out of much of Europe, they will miss a
vital market. Orchestras, which by their very nature have to
transport at times hundreds of instruments, cannot afford to
tour. As the Association of British Orchestras says,
“These added costs, delays and administrative burdens result in
damage to our international reputation, to cultural exchange, and
damage UK orchestras’ already fragile business model.”
The road haulage sector can be added to the long list of
businesses suffering because of Brexit and the UK’s disastrous
failure to negotiate a decent deal with the EU. As Members will
know, without multiple truck stops, there can be no European
tours using UK hauliers. Currently, UK vehicles that weigh more
than 3.5 tonnes are banned from making two stops before returning
home. That is having a crushing effect on UK haulage. The larger
players will be forced to relocate much of their business, as we
have heard, away from the UK to EU countries, but smaller players
will be forced out of the market altogether. I do not remember
seeing huge new visa costs, reams of new red tape and creative
sector jobs lost on the side of that Brexit tour bus.
The UK Government are failing to engage with the industry in a
constructive way. They continue to pursue headlines. That is what
the House of Lords European Affairs Committee concluded last
week, expressing the industry’s despair in a letter to the
world’s worst negotiator, . I think we all think it is time
for him to step aside and for the UK Government to stop
pretending this problem is solved. The Pollyanna Brexit fantasy
does not wash with musicians and road
hauliers facing real hardship. Listen to the industry, Minister,
and let us get this issue properly sorted once and for all.
15:56:00
(Leeds North West)
(Lab/Co-op)
It is particularly apt that you are chairing today’s debate, as a
published author on music, Dr Huq. I thank my right hon. and
learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman)
not just for securing the debate, but for all the work she has
done. We have seen a breadth of support on this issue, much of
which she has corralled—and perhaps carolled—into being.
The creative industry is the fastest growing sector in the UK.
There are 2,000 employed musicians 10,000
freelancers and 2,000 administrative and technical workers.
Millions of children and adults are currently undertaking music
as an educational pursuit in schools, community settings and
elsewhere. This country needs its musicians We
will be able to retain them only when we recognise the problems
in the industry and work with them to resolve them.
My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall () made a very good point
about her former constituent David Bowie, who I saw at
Glastonbury. Will we see more artists like him if we do not
resolve this issue? I have to say the Brixton Academy is one of
the best venues in the country and I have been there many
times.
This has been the most difficult time for the music industry in
generations. Covid-19 has devastated live performance and meant
restrictions on travel as well as performance and teaching work—a
point well made by my hon. Friend and gig companion, the hon.
Member for Bristol East (). I look forward to many
future concerts with her—perhaps one or two in the EU if we
resolve this issue. The live events sector was the last to reopen
after lockdown. musicians across the
country were forced to rely on the complex self-employment income
support scheme, their savings or, in some cases, universal credit
for income. Many have fallen out of the industry altogether.
We have emerged from lockdown into post-Brexit Britain, which has
had a substantial impact on any musician or arts organisation
that depends on touring in the EU. In 2019, UK artists played
almost four times as many shows across the EU as they did in
North America, sustaining an estimated 33,000 British jobs. As a
result of the UK-EU trade and co-operation agreement, in which
the EU and UK failed to reach agreement on a visa waiver for
performers, EU countries now treat UK performers and crew as visa
nationals when entering the EU to do paid work. As a result, as
we have heard, UK musicians must now
navigate 27 different sets of rules for 27 different countries.
Add to that the complexity of navigating the various covid
restrictions in each country and we have a significant
problem.
The Chair of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, the
hon. Member for Solihull (), rightly made prescient
points about the lack of meetings and the lack of progress by
. I do not blame the Minister,
who is new in post, but I certainly blame .
I am pleased to note that in the past few days there has been a
waiver for British musicians in Spain.
Spain was a particularly challenging place for musicians to obtain the
right to work without a visa; many musicians described the
process as incredibly stressful and the amount of financial
information required as extremely invasive. Although the issue
has now been resolved, it is important to note that its
resolution was within the gift of the Spanish Government, after
extensive discussions with our music industry leaders. The
problems encountered with Spain still exist in other EU
countries.
My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (), who is an accomplished
musician and hopefully a future EU touring musician, was right to
say that the issue had been made one of immigration. It should
never have been about immigration. I am not the shadow
immigration Minister; the Minister is not the immigration
Minister. This is a matter for the creative and cultural
sector.
Even getting across the border is a huge challenge. Carnets,
cabotage and post-Brexit customs controls have meant increased
time crossing the border, often costing days of touring time.
Eurostar is not a designated port, despite the sector’s repeated
calls for it to be since the EU referendum, so musicians have no
option but to fly to Europe rather than take the train.
Touring musicians care deeply
about the climate. Post COP, why are the Government pushing
aviation emissions when it is quicker and easier to go to Europe
by train?
Those who travel by road—particularly larger ensembles such as
orchestras, which travel with special equipment—face big problems
at the border. The Association of British Orchestras says:
“A specific concern for UK orchestras is that so many of the
ABO’s members operate their own trucks—these are adapted at
sizeable expense to accommodate fragile and high value musical
instruments—for example humidity and temperature controls, air
conditioned, special suspension, special brackets inside to
support the instruments.”
It points out that drivers also have specialist knowledge.
In preparation for this debate, I spoke to many musicians and artists
who are struggling post Brexit. While I was at COP in Glasgow
last week, I met Stuart Murdoch. I am really pleased that his
Member of Parliament, the hon. Member for Glasgow North (), is present; we were both
with Stuart at a Belle and Sebastian event last week.
Belle and Sebastian are touring nine European countries in the
spring. Stuart told me:
“The new rules cause a significant difficulty for us, our crew
and the whole industry. Financially, the additional costs
incurred for touring clubs and small venues between 200 and 500
people make it impossible to organise a European Tour without
third party support. We tour venues between 1200 and 2000
capacity and we can just about make that work. Increased costs of
visas, carnets and testing bring a double whammy of Brexit and
Coronavirus. The big issue for crew is the 90 days of 180 which
could push them out of the industry”—
a point made by the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on
music, the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (), whose leadership on this
matter I absolutely rate; I thank him for all his work and look
forward to the inquiry that the APPG is launching next week.
Stuart also said:
“Passports are retained by Embassies when they are needed to
cross borders—even with 2 passports it’s proving near impossible
to operate.”
, the bassist in West Yorkshire’s
most successful ever band, the Kaiser Chiefs, told me:
“The current legislation post Brexit will make it impossible for
the next Adele, Ed Sheeran, Kaiser Chiefs to learn their craft
and reach the necessary wider audience that Europe provides. On a
personal level it will mean us travelling there less for a number
of reasons. Carnet rates at 40% and import duty on merchandise
making it harder to make any profit. The merchandise alone would
pay for fuel/accommodation for smaller bands and these rules make
it financially unsustainable for all but the biggest acts. All
this also means less tax income for the country. It would also
lead to us outsourcing for crew, lights, PA and trucking meaning
less UK jobs and companies moving their business to EU
countries.”
Nathan Clark, who runs the best venue in the UK —Brudenell Social
Club in my constituency, where I recently saw Sir Tom Jones, whom
my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd () mentioned in her
excellent speech—told me:
“The impact has been twofold. Both in some cancellations of venue
bookings due to an artist’s tour not being viable enough across
the whole tour, therefore economic cost to us. But the impact of
local artists who are now skipping a tour in Europe due to both
financial cost, but also mental stress of navigating a tour
production, unlike ever before for new aspiring artists exporting
their talent.”
There is a risk that when we talk about UK music output, we talk
only of major recording and touring artists or highly esteemed
orchestras. We can fall into the trap of talking about the
industry only as an economic equation, as I did earlier in my
speech, but the truth is that much of our cultural offering to
the world comes from grassroots artists and freelancers, who are
bringing art and culture from every community in the UK.
Matt Holborn is a UK-based violinist, band leader and touring
artist. He articulated to me the real threat both to
freelance musicians and to music
itself, saying:
“as someone who has organised tours and one-off gigs across
Europe, Brexit has certainly put a stop to all of it, for the
time being. People who are signed to minor record labels…are
having to cancel European tours that have been in the planning
for years due to the complexity, uncertainty and potential
costs…As a freelancer, I have basically written it off now, I
haven’t organised with my contacts abroad and haven’t booked in
the gigs that I did pre-Brexit and pre Covid. Covid has provided
a double whammy, just as you get your head around the visa rules
for each country you also have to consider the Covid rules as
well.”
We are where we are, and at this time we do not want to start
rehashing the debates around Brexit or covid, which might get us
nowhere in the short term. In this debate, it is important that
we on the Opposition Benches offer practical solutions to this
problem, so here are some, and I hope that the Government will
take them on board and offer the creative industry some assurance
that this situation will get better. I hope that the Minister
will respond to these points.
First, let us look at reciprocity. We need to deal with the fact
that there are 27 different sets of rules for musicians and music
workers to navigate, as compared with the UK’s relatively liberal
rules for international musicians to come here
through permitted paid engagement and tier 5 visas. We must
redress that imbalance and seek reciprocal visa and work permit
arrangements for our UK touring artists with the EU. Better yet,
the Government should engage with the EU and seek an agreement on
a visa waiver for performers, as exists between the EU and other
third countries, as well as a waiver on carnets and cabotage. The
industry must also have a transparent view of these negotiations
through the Government reporting to it and to this House any
progress that is being made, particularly in relation to
countries that do not offer a cultural exception such as Croatia,
Greece, Portugal, Bulgaria, Romania, Malta and Cyprus.
Other practical steps would include making Eurostar a designated
entry and exit point for carnets and cabotage, as well as
agreeing a reciprocal arrangement with the EU for the movement of
goods for cultural purposes or, at the very least, an exemption
for operating on one’s own account. We need an agreement on truck
stops, which may look like an EU-wide cultural exemption; on the
movement of specialist vehicles; and on transporting concert
equipment and personnel. During the negotiation period, the
industry needs interim support to mitigate the large-scale
disruption caused by Brexit. As we know, negotiations of this
sort can take years, so we need something in place now to ease
the concerns of the industry. DCMS must produce clear and
accessible guidance for musicians at every
level as to what they need, and for where. We need to support
our musicians not bury
them in a sea of complex administration that is easy to get
wrong. I know that thus far, DCMS has been reluctant to provide
guidance, or to support any guidance produced by the sector. That
needs to change, and greater partnership work in this area is
essential.
In the long term, we need a viable plan for UK artists and crew
to continue working in all EU27 countries without costly permits
or bureaucracy. We have to look at ways to ease the burdens on
European tours through some of the measures I have just outlined,
and we also need to discuss and focus on what we can do
domestically to provide a thriving cultural arena
for musicians and artists.
I hope that the Minister can address all those points.
16:07:00
The Minister for Media, Data and Digital Infrastructure ()
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Huq, and I
am really glad to be here to discuss the important issue of
touring. I am particularly grateful to the Mother of the House
for engaging on this issue and setting out some of the economic,
cultural and quality-of-life reasons why music is so important to
us all. I certainly agree with her; I do not want the UK to
become a cultural Galápagos, and I am confident that it will not.
I am very glad that she has also spoken directly to the Secretary
of State, and has acknowledged our mutual desire to get movement
on this issue. I am also very grateful to her for offering to
work in close partnership on this issue, and I shall take her up
on that offer.
I appreciate the contribution made by my hon. Friend the Member
for Somerton and Frome (). He is an accomplished
musician and a great champion for the industry, and I look
forward to working with him. He also makes a very important point
about the importance of services as well as goods, an issue that
I agree is too often overlooked. I also emphasise that the
cultural industries are not niche industries but real economic
drivers of growth. I also thank right hon. and hon. Members for
the quality of the contributions we have heard today, especially
from members of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee.
I feel compelled to insert a Tom Jones pun, but the less we talk
about sex bombs in this place, the better. [Laughter.]
I am also very grateful to the chairman of the DCMS Committee, my
hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (), who has made a similar
point about how important DCMS is as a Department. This is not
some Ministry of Fun: it too often suffers from that perception,
but it is a serious economic Department and it needs to have that
place within Government—I would say that now that I have moved,
wouldn’t I? On the cross-departmental working issue, I reassure
Members that I had a former role in the Cabinet Office, so I have
contacts there. I understand how some of the European issues
work—the committee structures and so on—and I am very keen in
this new role to champion DCMS within those committee structures,
and make the point that this is an incredibly important issue. I
appreciate the comments that have been made about ; I have no desire to promote
myself to his position, nor would I have the power to, but he is
doing some very difficult and complex work, and we appreciate the
work that he does for the Government.
As we all know, the UK has left the EU, and it was inevitable
following this that there would be changes in how creative
professionals toured. I appreciate that the situation has been
exacerbated by the pandemic, which has led to uncertainty in the
sector, which we are seeking to resolve.
Hon. Members talked about the difference between some of the
larger groups, with more money behind them, and the complexity
for a smaller band or individual that is touring, and how it can
be very difficult to navigate the bureaucratic issues around
touring. I very much hear that issue, so throughout this year my
Department has been working very hard to support the touring
sector by clarifying arrangements, helping the sector to adapt
and, where possible, looking at what we can do unilaterally and
with EU member states to make things much easier.
Indeed, I had a very good meeting yesterday with representatives
of the touring sector; in fact, I think it was the seventh
meeting of the touring working group. It was a really productive
meeting. I took down a lot of notes myself about some of the
issues that I need to raise with ministerial colleagues.
However, this week was also a positive week. We have made good
progress with Spain in relation to short-term visas for touring
artists, and I will meet the Spanish ambassador next week, when I
hope to ensure that we have worked through all the different
issues, so that there is not just a headline but we actually have
the details in place. I also hope to use this moment of
engagement with Spain to encourage the final six countries to
follow suit and provide clarity for people on the issue.
It is clear that although some significant issues remain—I am not
a Minister to try to gloss over any issues; I want to work
through them—I also wish to emphasise that I think the
arrangements are more workable than has at times been portrayed.
It is important for all of us to try to build confidence in the
sector and to say what can be done, as well as highlight some of
the issues that remain.
Touring generally involves the movement of people, goods and
vehicles. I will initially focus on visas and permits, but I will
address some of the other issues in turn, to highlight what my
Department has done and is doing to progress these issues,
notwithstanding the fact that some issues are within the remit of
other Departments.
In the negotiations for the trade and co-operation agreement with
the EU, we sought to ensure that touring artists and their
support staff did not need work permits to perform in the EU.
However, those proposals were rejected. Our recent trade deal
with three European Free Trade Association countries, which
include those provisions, was based on the same offer, which
shows that it is workable.
I am aware that there have been calls for the Government to
negotiate a visa waiver; that issue was raised by a number of
hon. Members here in Westminster Hall today. We have engaged
extensively with the industry on this proposal, but unfortunately
we do not think it is viable. It is not Government policy to
agree visa waivers, and the EU did not offer a visa waiver for
paid activities during the TCA negotiations. What it did offer
was a reciprocal visa waiver agreement covering all current
member states and any future member states for short stays, for
example as a tourist. However, nothing in this proposal would
have compelled member states to change their visa regimes for
paid engagement, and we think that remains incompatible with our
manifesto commitment to take control of our borders. In addition,
we do not think that it would meet the sector’s needs. We enable
visa-free visits by EU citizens, but we wish to retain control of
how we apply this policy, and it is important to stress that no
major G7 economy has agreed to lock in its visa systems with the
EU in this way.
has used the TCA’s committee
structures to note the importance of this issue to the Government
and we have also raised touring during the most recent meeting of
the EU-UK’s Trade Specialised Committee on Services, Investment
and Digital. However, our focus is now on working directly with
EU member states and, as we have seen with the good progress this
week, it is they who are principally responsible for deciding the
rules governing what work UK visitors can undertake in their
country.
We first want to address the uncertainty that is felt by some in
the sector. It has been apparent that the information available
online from member states regarding visa and permit requirements
for touring musicians is at times
lacking in detail and difficult to follow. As I have said, Spain
has been a particular focus, and touring was raised with the
Spanish Government by Ministers from across the Government,
including by Ministers from the Department for Digital, Culture,
Media and Sport, from the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development
Office, from the Department for International Trade and from the
Cabinet Office, as well as by our ambassador in Madrid. Following
that, as I have said, I am very pleased that there has been
movement on this issue this week.
I am not sure that the point about the G7 and visa waivers is a
particularly strong one. After all, three of the G7 countries are
France, Germany and Italy, so they are members of the European
Union. The others are Canada, Japan and the United States, which
are all many thousands of miles away from the European Union. We
are the only G7 country that—as the Chair of the Select
Committee, the hon. Member for Solihull (), said—is 20 miles away from
the European Union and in the case of Northern Ireland no miles
away. So I would not rely on that point as a very strong argument
against locking in our system to a visa waiver agreement in
relation to the creative industries.
I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s intervention and I also
appreciate the point he made earlier about wanting to disentangle
this issue, so that it is not an immigration issue; this is about
the importance of our creative industries and their economic
power. I am happy to explore this issue further in response to
some of the points that have been made here this afternoon.
Spain is a major market for UK touring artists, and it is one of
the big ones that we wanted to solve. The sector has done
tremendous work in advance of the announcement. It was a good
example of where we can all work together to dismantle remaining
barriers.
Twenty-one EU states have now confirmed that they offer visa and
work permit-free routes for musicians and
creative performers. I recognise that the visa and permit
situation for touring has changed since EU exit, and it requires
adaptation, but it is important to recognise that those routes
exist. We try to provide clarity on gov.uk, so that people
understand the arrangements before they have to leave.
At present, six EU member states do not offer visa or work
permit-free touring. We have lobbied and will continue to lobby
those countries to allow creative professionals to tour easily.
As I say, I want to use the Spain breakthrough as a moment to
re-engage with those member states. Those countries would benefit
from the cultural exchange and the positive financial spill-overs
that touring inevitably brings. UK Music, as others have said,
has found that in the UK, for every £10 spent on a ticket, £17
goes back into a local economy. Therefore, if those EU member
states change their position, we believe that they will find a
similar benefit. We have emphasised that point in our
engagement.
Ultimately, those are decisions for those six member states, but
we are using the diplomatic tools at our disposal to get a good
outcome for our industry. It is important for the Government and
the sector to work together in that effort. As I said, yesterday
I spoke to the sector and to the touring working group, and the
Secretary of State engaged earlier this week with Sir Elton John
in a productive and positive meeting. As singers and performers
know, combining our voices will make the greatest impact. I
appreciate the help of everyone in the Chamber in making the
case.
To turn to the concerns about the movement of goods and vehicles,
there are new requirements, with potential costs and paperwork to
do with the ATA carnet documentation, and the movement of
merchandise or of instruments made from protected materials. Some
of those were raised in the meeting yesterday. The new cabotage
rules can limit the movement of vehicles to a maximum of three
stops. As I mentioned at the start of my speech, those changes
could be particularly concerning for emerging artists. We have
worked across Government to provide clarity on the issues. In
many cases, the arrangements are much more workable than is at
times reported—that is not to diminish the concerns
expressed.
For example, a UK band can pack a van with their instruments,
equipment and up to nine people and travel around the EU without
being subject to the TCA cabotage restrictions. They may also
take their portable instruments and equipment without the need
for carnets, and EU rules state that each individual is able to
take up to €1,000 of merchandise into the EU to sell on tour
without paying customs duties.
In cases when a carnet is required, that is a single document
that can be used for multiple items as many times as required in
approximately 80 countries around the world for a 12-month
period. Carnets have long been a familiar feature of touring.
They were needed whenever touring was taking place beyond the EU,
including for example to Switzerland, so this is a case of
adaptation.
Will the Minister clarify? When she says that there is one
carnet, but everything has to be listed, my understanding is that
with a drum kit, someone cannot just say, “Drum kit”, but must
specify every different cymbal and drum. Is that the case? Even
though it is all on one piece of paper, that could still amount
to a huge amount of bureaucracy.
I appreciate the hon. Lady’s point and I am happy to take it
away. I am fairly new to this area, so with some DFT issues I
will not be able to give clarity on all the details. I am happy
to write to her.
I have also been listening to the music sector’s concerns about
the possible designation of St Pancras as a port designated under
CITES—the convention on international trade in endangered
species—for artists carrying instruments made of protected
materials. The number of CITES ports in the UK has already
increased from 24 to 36 over the past year, and the Department
for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Border Force are
working together to look at the possibility of St Pancras being
added to that list. I am keen to accelerate that.
The Government have engaged with the sector’s concerns about the
restrictions to do with cabotage and cross-trade that apply to
single-use trucks, issuing a call for evidence on options in the
summer. It is worth reiterating that during negotiations for the
TCA, we proposed specific market access rights for specialist
hauliers carrying out tours for cultural events, but the EU did
not agree. To help artists navigate such issues, we have
developed creative sector-specific landing pages on gov.uk to
signpost relevant guidance. We continue to work across the board
to encourage updates to guidance and to ensure that rules are
clear and accessible.
The UK’s cultural and creative industries are an integral part of
our economy across the UK, and they play a huge role in a truly
global Britain. That point was made by a number of hon. Members
today. We continue to support our creative industries through a
range of export support programmes, including the music export
growth scheme. We also recently launched the export support
service, where UK businesses can get answers to practical
questions about exporting to Europe. In our meeting yesterday, a
Department for International Trade official highlighted some of
the new services available to musicians These
are all with a view to strengthening the international reach and
reputation of our creatives, and the benefits they bring to our
economy, culture and society. I will continue to work with
Departments, the creative industries trade and investment board,
and sector representatives, such as UK Music, to see what more
can be done to help the industries adapt to these new
arrangements with the EU.
To conclude, leaving the EU has led to a number of changes. We
recognise the uncertainty and concerns felt by our musicians and the
creative sectors, and my Department and the Government as a whole
have worked very hard to support them. Across issues relating to
the movement of people, goods and vehicles, we have engaged
extensively with the sector to understand and grip those concerns
and help people adapt. Like hon. Members, I want to see UK
creatives tour and perform in the EU not just for
our musicians but because
they have so much to offer people in member states, and I hope we
can make sure that can happen.
16:20:00
Ms Harman
We have heard incredibly compelling speeches. The Minister will
have heard the real sense of frustration and that patience is
running out, and I am sure she will take that to heart. Some
problems are intractable for Government—this is not one of them.
It can be solved, so the Minister should bear that in mind. Some
actions that Government take cause a backlash. There will be no
backlash when this problem is solved, and she should bear that in
mind as well.
I would like to give the Minister a couple of sisterly
suggestions, which are very genuinely felt. I suggest that she
goes on a European tour, literally going to different European
capitals, starting with Brussels, taking her officials with her
and talking to her counterparts there. Before she goes, she
should download the forms, see what she makes of them and try to
fill them in herself. She should engage, as it were, as a
musician and then go, as a Minister, to those European capitals,
and she will find people willing to help and she will learn more.
It will empower her when it comes to dealing with , of whom mention has been made
today.
On behalf of Members, the sector, and the Government keeping
their promises, she must be quite clear with that he must be part of the
solution and not an obstacle to it. The Prime Minister is having
enough rows with enough people right now. This issue does not
need to be a row if becomes a facilitator rather
than an obstruction. It is not always that a junior Minister can
do something really meaningful, that will really make a
difference, that gives real job satisfaction, and which people
will be grateful for. She has that opportunity; I hope she will
act very quickly because time is running out.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered enabling visa- and permit-free
working for musicians in the EU.
