Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government why international students and
others who have been fully vaccinated and are not required to
self-isolate on arrival in the United Kingdom subsequently have
to self-isolate if a close contact contracts COVID-19; and what
plans they have to change this policy.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health
and Social Care () (Con)
Our current system for validating the vaccination status of close
contacts relies on checking against records in the NHS national
immunisation management system. We do not have access to
equivalent records for those vaccinated overseas. We recognise
the pressing need to resolve this issue as soon as possible and
are urgently exploring a number of different options to extend
the existing exemptions to contacts who have been vaccinated
overseas. I hope to be in a position very shortly to brief the
House on a proposed solution.
(Lab)
My Lords, I will welcome that solution when it comes. The
Minister talks of urgency but we have been waiting since the
beginning of September for a resolution to a problem that I
believe is rather small but which clearly disadvantages
international students. To me, it feels slightly xenophobic and
as though to date the Government have been intransigent. I know
that Public Health England agrees that the policy is not logical
in any sense or form, so why do international students have to
self-isolate for 10 days when our own students from the UK do
not? This disadvantages the international students and puts
people off coming to this country. Also, how can international
students who have had non-MHRA-approved vaccines be immunised in
the UK in order to get a Covid pass, should that be necessary in
the not too distant future, as it is in some other parts of the
UK?
(Con)
As someone whose family comes from outside the EU, who has taught
in universities and who recognises the great asset that there is
and the great advantages that there are in being open to the
world, and global Britain, I share the noble Baroness’s
frustration. Yes, we have left the EU, which is very much a
project of white privilege, and moved to a more global outlook.
It is really important that we now focus on the world generally.
The issue is quite technical at the moment. One of the things
needed for the test and trace system to work is that you need
access to the underlying data and verification. We are looking at
a number of different options for how to achieve that.
The Lord Speaker ()
The noble Lord, , is not present so I call the
noble Baroness, Lady Hayter of Kentish Town.
(Lab)
As the Minister has said, our universities have long been a
welcoming and inspiring academic hub for international students
but stories such as the ones that we have heard—along with, I am
afraid, the attack on freedom of speech at the LSE and the
shameful treatment of Professor Stock, which we will come to
shortly—added to Covid and online teaching, to say nothing of the
Brexit fallout, which means that EU schools can no longer use
group passports, all question our ability to attract youngsters
from across the globe. What are the Government doing to
re-establish our reputation in this sector?
(Con)
The noble Baroness makes an important point about us being a
global hub and welcoming the whole world. For centuries the UK
has been open to a number of different nationalities from across
the world. Indeed, my own family came to the UK in the Windrush
generation. I have always been clear that we should be a global
Britain, not just focused on one small part of the world.
I want to take the opportunity to answer the question that I
forgot to answer about international students. Anyone in England
is eligible for the vaccine if they fall within the current
eligibility criteria, and international students are encouraged
to register with a GP.
On free speech, it is critical that our universities remain
places where you can have free expression without fear. The
essence of free speech is being able to tolerate views that you
may not agree with but it is important that they are expressed.
Universities should remain hubs of free speech.
(CB)
My Lords, I refer to my registered interests. Given that this is
not really a public health problem in its scale, but it is a bar
to the recruitment of international students and their
integration once they are here, may I urge the Minister—even if
he cannot find a quick solution to the NHS app—to put out some
information on how Covid passes can be obtained and to make sure
that all universities and students have access to that
information as soon as possible?
(Con)
Last night I took part in a debate that involved the issue of the
Covid pass, particularly with the boosters. I was frustrated
because I thought I had a date I could announce. That was pulled
at the last moment, but we are very close to a solution. The
technical point on test and trace is that, at the moment, it is
unable to validate the vaccination status of people whose
vaccines are not registered on the database. We are looking at
whether that can be done on trust, or whether that would open a
loophole for getting around the system. I have been assured when
pushing the NHS on this that it is looking at an answer.
(Lab)
The Minister must accept that this a very confusing area for
everybody. Perhaps he would like to clarify the Prime Minister’s
comments yesterday on what impact tougher overseas travel rules
and self-isolation for those without a jab might have. He
mentioned those yesterday in the press conference. I think they
are linked to the Question my noble friend asked. It is very
important that the NHS app shows the booster as soon as possible,
because it is going to cause a lot of trouble for Christmas
travel.
(Con)
I welcome questions from noble Lords, particularly on getting the
booster on the app, because when I am talking to officials in the
department and the NHS it shows how important it is that we do
this as quickly as possible. One of the tasks is to be
accountable and to push the NHS and others to make sure that we
are doing this. Sadly, when I ask what the problem is on test and
trace, I am told that it is unable to validate the vaccination
status of people whose vaccines are not recorded on a national
immunisation management system. I have asked about passenger
locator forms and whether we could use a similar technology. At
the moment that is done on trust, but you face a very high fine
if you are misleading; maybe that could be a solution. I assure
noble Lords that I really am pushing.
of Newnham (LD)
My Lords, I refer to my registered interests. I have printed off
the advice given by my university, Cambridge, to international
students and what it means to be fully vaccinated. To come into
the country, if they are fully vaccinated, they do not have to
isolate when they arrive, as the noble Baroness, Lady Royall,
pointed out. If the system can understand when they arrive in the
country that they are fully vaccinated, why can the NHS app not
understand that they are fully vaccinated when they get pinged by
test and trace?
(Con)
I share the frustration of the noble Baroness and others. This is
not great for our international, global outlook, or for the fact
that we want to attract the best students from around the world,
not just Europe. We are a global country and we have to address
this. I am pushing the NHS on this because it is really
important. The problem is the national immunisation management
system, to use the technical term, and the inability to validate
the data of overseas visitors.
(Lab)
My Lords, I can sense the Minister’s frustration in this, but we
have been aware of it for some time; this should have been sorted
out a long time ago, yet here we are now in November. Does the
Minister accept that all departments must play their part in
achieving the Government’s aim of increasing the number of
international students? Will he assure us that his department
will be both flexible and creative—with the emphasis on
“creative”—in resolving this and other similar problems that may
arise?
(Con)
I assure the noble Baroness that when I was pressing this issue
yesterday with officials in preparation for this Question, I
stressed the importance of flexibility and creativity. We need to
think outside the box on many issues. One issue we are looking at
is: if passenger locator forms can do this, why can the NHS Test
and Trace system not? I am told that is because it is based on
self-certification. I am pushing the NHS to address and analyse
the different options as soon as possible. It is really important
we send a message to the rest of the world that we are open to
the brightest and the best from across the world.
(Lab)
My Lords, in Queen’s University Belfast, the current position is
determined by the Public Health Agency in Northern Ireland and is
based on your vaccination status and age, rather than on whether
you have home or overseas status. Would the Minister engage with
the devolved Administrations, particularly the Northern Ireland
Executive, who seem to have best practice in relation to this
issue?
(Con)
One of the advantages of having devolved Administrations and
different practices is that we can learn from best practice, so I
will take the noble Baroness’s advice.
(Lab Co-op)
My Lords, does the noble Lord believe the rules and regulations
regarding the Covid-19 pandemic are clear, consistent and easy to
understand?
(Con)
I thank the noble Lord for that question. It depends on who you
ask.
