Lord Etherton (CB):...Bearing in mind that, as has been pointed
out, Ministers and Secretaries of State come and go and that the
Secretary of State has sole control over the appointment of people
on the committee—we do not yet know who they will be or what their
views may be—I ask the Minister for a specific confirmation, in
line with many assurances that have been given in recent years. Can
he confirm—this will deflate a degree of anxiety—that it remains
government policy, to which...Request free trial
(CB):...Bearing in mind that, as has been
pointed out, Ministers and Secretaries of State come and go and
that the Secretary of State has sole control over the appointment
of people on the committee—we do not yet know who they will be or
what their views may be—I ask the Minister for a specific
confirmation, in line with many assurances that have been given in
recent years. Can he confirm—this will deflate a degree of
anxiety—that it remains government policy, to which the Government
foresee no change, that there will be no prohibition of or
restriction on Jewish religious
slaughter—shechita? I am not in any sense suggesting that
there is anything contrary to the welfare of animals—there is a
great deal of evidence about how humane that method of killing is,
but that is not the point—I am simply asking for confirmation today
that the present policy will continue and that the Government see
no reason why it would change in the future...
(CB) [V]:...Fish are not included in the Bill, but
there is certainly a case for including crustaceans, which have
been shown to react to pain and yet are killed by being broken to
pieces alive or boiled alive—a fate too horrific for me ever to
want to touch one. My point is that we should not see ourselves as
a nation uniquely kind to animals. Nor should we apply double
standards—on which note I refer to the fact that kosher killing is carried out with the
utmost attention to care and science. I follow my noble and learned
friend in noting that, in the past, the Government have
committed not to ban traditional Jewish slaughter
methods. Will the Minister now repeat that commitment?
(Con):...On the issue of slaughter, some European countries
have insisted on stunning for both halal and kosher
slaughter. If other European countries can
do that, I see no reason at all why it should not take place in the
United Kingdom. It is something to work towards. But if we look
further afield and at what is happening in other countries, perhaps
where we have influence when we are talking about trade deals, we
can see bear bile, dogs being skinned and cooked alive, as well as
tiger farms in China—purely for medicinal use—and bears kept in
cages, dancing for tourists along with elephants across Asia. So it
goes on...
(Con):...I personally support halal and kosher killing, and I would like
to see CCTV in slaughterhouses. But what would happen if, for
example, the committee decided to wage a campaign against these two
particular types of slaughterhouse?
(Non-Afl): My Lords, I propose
to speak in favour of electric dog-training collars and against
non-stun halal and kosher
slaughter, both of which could fall under
the influence of the proposed new committee...
...And so, finally, to non-stun halal and kosher
slaughter. I wonder whether the Government
can explain why they are even vaguely thinking of banning electric
dog collars through this new committee while tolerating the
colossal suffering inflicted by these practices. Figures from the
Foods Standards Agency tell us that in 2018 some 3.1 million sheep
had their throats cut without being pre-stunned—one-quarter of all
sheep killed—and 22,000 cattle suffered the same fate. Of course I
understand that the Government and our elected politicians
generally may be too frightened of the Muslim and
Jewish vote to tackle this practice head-on and
simply ban it. But, if that is so, why do they not require all meat
sold in this country to say on its wrapping whether it comes from a
pre-stunned animal? After all, cigarette packets are required by
law to tell the purchaser that smoking damages your health, so why
not the same for meat?
I understand that some schools and hospitals now serve
nothing but halal and kosher meat, because it is so
vociferously demanded by their relevant Muslim and
Jewish patients. This is very unfair to our
Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists, who are forbidden to eat halal
or kosher meat, and it is also
unfair to the rest of us who do not want effectively to be forced
to eat it or go without. So I suggest that the Government
re-examine their priorities in this matter, and I look forward to
hearing the Minister’s reply on these two points. Before he leaves
the Chamber, I should add that I welcome him to his new position
today—but I do not envy it...
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