Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will publish their
internal review of the handling of the COVID-19 pandemic.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health
and Social Care () (Con)
My Lords, I start by welcoming the noble Baroness, Lady Merron,
to the Bench; I am very much looking forward to working with her
in the months ahead. The Prime Minister confirmed on 12 May that
a public inquiry will be established on a statutory basis to
consider the Covid-19 pandemic, including the Government’s
handling of it. I can confirm that while DHSC officials carried
out a routine internal ways-of-working review, this was
absolutely for the purpose of providing advice to Ministers only.
(Lab)
My Lords, the National Audit Office report published yesterday
both highlighted the need for the Government to learn lessons at
speed and advocated greater transparency. Publishing an already
completed internal review of the Government’s handling of the
Covid-19 crisis would support a plan to contain the threat of new
variants, and I urge the Government to do so. I am interested to
know whether the Minister can come to agree with me on this. With
experts, including SAGE, warning that it is very much in the
balance as to whether further restrictions will be lifted in
June, given the dramatic rise in Indian Covid-19 variant cases,
will the Government learn the lessons and urgently review travel
and quarantine arrangements?
(Con)
My Lords, I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness that we are
at a pivotal moment in the pandemic; matters are on a knife-edge.
There is so much good news about the effect of the vaccine that
we should celebrate, but there is enormous jeopardy in the threat
posed by variants. That is why we are very much focused on
dealing with the pandemic before us. The inquiry promised by the
Prime Minister is for spring next year, and until then we will
continue to be focused on today’s pandemic.
(LD)
My Lords, Professor Andrew Hayward, a member of SAGE, this
morning said that he thinks we are now at the start of the third
wave and that more generalised measures will be needed. As an
adviser to government is saying that we need to act and plan now,
what generalised measures are the Government planning and when
will they be announced, so that people and businesses do not have
just 24 hours to plan?
(Con)
My Lords, we are enormously grateful for the advice of SAGE,
which, as the noble Lord will know, is a very large collection of
scientists, many of whom have many different views. The JBC takes
their advice into account, and we are absolutely monitoring the
situation as closely as we possibly can. We celebrate the
transparency with which the very large amount of surveillance
data is handled and published for public analysis. Measures are
in place on testing, therapeutics and social distancing, but the
number one measure is the vaccine. The rollout of the vaccine is
what will give this country the protection it needs.
(Con)
My Lords, I reiterate my congratulations to the Government and
all those involved in the fantastic success of the vaccine
development and rollout programme. This inquiry does not need to
be long and drawn out. Will my noble friend confirm that it will
look into the accuracy of—and contradictory nature of some of—the
scientific advice received over the last year, the appalling
scaremongering of some of the media, the validity of political
decisions such as lockdowns, and whether the government reaction
to the pandemic, and the reaction overall, has been
proportionate?
(Con)
My Lords, the Prime Minister promised on 12 May that there will
be a statutory inquiry beginning in spring 2022, as my noble
friend alluded to. Its chair and terms of reference will be
announced before spring 2022, and it will be for the terms of
reference and the chair to determine exactly what subjects are
looked at.
(Lab)
[V]
My Lords, I ask the Minister to return to the first Question
asked by my noble friend—she asked two—which he overlooked. Does
the Minister agree that publishing the internal review could
strengthen the strategic plan to contain new variants? Does he
agree with me that it would certainly raise public trust and
that, because of the inordinate delay until next year in starting
the public inquiry, it surely makes sense? Even if this is not a
public-facing review, it is of such public interest that he
should publish the internal review.
(Con)
My Lords, as I said before, there was an internal ways-of-working
review into the department’s early response to the pandemic, way
before the threat of variants was on the horizon. None the less,
it is our commitment to focus on the pandemic and the threat
presented to us by its future evolution. That is why we are
focused on today’s measures. We will leave reflection on the past
to the inquiry.
(Con)
Does the Minister see that we will keep on having variants of
this virus and, to an extent, will have to learn to live with it?
I am sure people would be much happier if we were to downscale
the amount of advice that we get from a variety of often dubious
sources. The sooner we can publish an inquiry into it, the
better. We must recognise that the Government faced an enormous
challenge. Overall, they have come out of it pretty well, and we
should not carp.
(Con)
My Lords, I am enormously grateful to my noble friend for his
comments. I know he has been a vocal critic of some things, and I
take his comments in very good measure. On his point on guidance,
this is not how the public have presented things to us. They want
clear, easy-to-understand guidance. We have learned the
importance of publishing in many languages and now regularly
publish in 10 spoken languages. The public are in fact hungry for
detailed guidance, which is why we have published more than 400
pieces of guidance on GOV.UK, covering everything from funerals,
care homes and schools right through to smokers, vapers,
houseboat dwellers and singing with children. That is because the
public would like to have this kind of advice and recommendation.
(Con)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, , on how
professionally he handles his responsibilities in the Lords. I am
sure he will support the Prime Minister’s announcement that a
full inquiry will be held next year, beginning in the spring,
which will place the state’s actions under the microscope. The
existing internal lessons-learned review was an informal
exercise, not a public-facing work, which I believe will not be
published. It would be wrong to publish it. While there have
inevitably been some mistakes, I congratulate the Government and
the noble Lord, , on having got
Covid-19 vaccinations moving significantly faster than the EU. I
hope he will exceed the speed limit even more.
(Con)
I am enormously grateful for my noble friend’s kind comments. On
his point on vaccines, I emphasise the enormous contribution of
the whole union behind the vaccine project. It has been a union
project to deploy vaccines to every person in the UK at amazing
speed and with consistency right across all parts of the union.
For that we should be enormously grateful.
(Lab Co-op)
My Lords, while we all here respect that health is a devolved
responsibility, does the Minister not agree with me that one of
the problems that arose was the confusion arising from different
rules in different parts of the United Kingdom and different
messages throughout the United Kingdom? In the inquiry, will the
United Kingdom Government talk with the devolved Administrations
to make sure that, in future, there is a more co-ordinated
response? The virus knows no boundaries.
(Con)
My Lords, the Prime Minister will define the terms of reference
and the chair will define how the inquiry deports itself. On the
noble Lord’s point about the rules and the suggestion of
confusion, I agree that there was a lot of heat and smoke around
differences but the truth is that 99% of everything that we did
between the different parts of the union was exactly the same.
There was a lot of focus on very small differences, but what I
celebrate is how much common ground there was in our responses.
(Con)
My Lords, I echo the congratulations to my noble friend on his
dedication to his role, and I welcome the noble Baroness opposite
to her position. I join other colleagues in congratulating the
Government on their successful rollout of the vaccine, which,
from what we can see so far, deals with the variants that have
arisen and allows us to open our country back up again after the
extraordinary efforts that have been made in connection with the
vaccine. In connection with any review, will there be an urgent
announcement of an investigation into the way that social care
was handled, particularly at the beginning of this, for those
people who are so reliant on home care or care homes for their
very survival?
(Con)
My Lords, I do not think I need to speculate on this matter; of
course social care will form part of the inquiry. It has been an
incredibly important part of our response, and we have come a
long way in the last 14 or 15 months. I pay tribute to all the
people who work in social care, and their leadership, who have
done an enormous amount to protect those who live in social care
or are supported by it. We as a country have learned a huge
amount about how to protect those who are vulnerable and those
who are elderly. I also pay enormous tribute to the public, who
have made huge sacrifices to protect and save the lives of those
who live in social care.
(Non-Afl)
My Lords, I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, to her
position and look forward to hearing from her. I too pay tribute
to the Minister and the Government, including my friend in the
other place, , who has led this very effectively. It is so pleasing
to see the uptake of vaccines in all parts of our countries and
communities. While we are not privy to any internal findings of
the report, does the Minister accept that any current or future
review must address the detrimental economic impact on women,
people with disabilities and those communities of minority
heritage that suffered significant loss of life in the early
days? Will such a report also therefore consider whether the
lessons of the first wave were learned, and unnecessary deaths
and infections subsequently prevented?
(Con)
My Lords, it is not for me to define exactly what the scope of
the inquiry will be but the noble Baroness’s points are extremely
well made. I emphasise the importance of women. We are in the
midst of consultation on the women’s health strategy. It is
proving to be an incredibly impactful process and events are
being held almost daily. I encourage all noble Lords to submit
evidence to the health strategy on any issues that they feel
strongly about. This could be a really impactful turning point in
the way in which the health of women in this country is massively
improved.
(Con)
Does my noble friend agree that publishing an internal review
right now would do nothing less than risking a dodgy dossier, of
the sort we have seen before which shed far more confusion than
light? Does he not think that the most important use of time
right now would be in getting to grips with the anti-vaxxers who
are spreading vicious lies, so that we can get on with
vaccinating as many people as possible and bringing this country
together as quickly as possible?
(Con)
I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for his comments. He
is entirely right. The battle against anti-vaxxers has been very
successful. We have used a spirit of dialogue with people who
have very personal and legitimate questions about a vaccine that
requires an injection of fluids into their body. People quite
reasonably have detailed questions about its impact. I applaud
officials and partners of the Government who have been so
effective at conveying the message on the safety and efficacy of
the vaccine. It really has demonstrated the power of government
and NHS communications at their best.
(GP) [V]
My Lords, I join the chorus of welcome to the noble Baroness,
Lady Merron, who referred, as have other Peers, to the National
Audit Office report on the handling of the pandemic. Commenting
on that, , the head of the NAO, stressed the need to “learn
lessons at speed”. The Minister has often expressed how useful
and informative he has found the contributions in your Lordships’
House. Would those contributions not be better informed if
Members could absorb and reflect on the findings of the internal
review as the country and the world continue to deal with what
is, certainly on the global level, a raging and deeply dangerous
pandemic?
(Con)
I am enormously grateful to the NAO for the powerful report that
it has published. It said many complimentary things about the
Government’s handling of the pandemic. I am grateful to noble
Lords for the counsel and challenge that they have given here in
this Chamber. I point out the vast amount of data and information
that we have published, which is at the disposal of the public
and parliamentarians. However, confidential advice from officials
to Ministers on a means-of-working review is not the kind of
thing that I think adds to this sort of debate, and for that
reason it is most appropriately kept confidential.
(Non-Afl) [V]
My Lords, this morning on BBC News there has been a suggestion
that the Indian variant has been due in large part to ineffective
track and trace. Would the Minister like to comment on that?
(Con)
My Lords, I do not think that is correct. The noble Baroness is
right to ask the question because we should always challenge our
systems, but track and trace has really delivered for the country
when it comes to the containment of the variants. We were
extremely concerned about the Manaus variant. That was why we
instigated Project Eagle, an intense application of testing in
communities on a very large scale and forensic tracing, putting
huge resources into tracking down the movements of those who
tested positive with a VOC. We then had the South African
variant, which has been successfully contained. We could not have
imagined that an Indian VOC of this kind could make its way into
this country with such high transmissibility, and I pay tribute
to those working in track and trace who have bought us an
enormous amount of time so that we can bring in surge testing and
surge vaccination to contain and minimise the spread of this
variant.
