Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of
(1) the proposed legislation in Australia for a news media and
digital platforms mandatory bargaining code, and (2) the case for
similar such legislation in the United Kingdom.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Digital, Culture, Media and Sport () (Con)
My Lords, the UK Government are committed to supporting the
sustainability of trusted journalism. We have announced plans to
introduce a new code of conduct to cover the relationship between
dominant online platforms and the different groups of users that
depend on them, including news publishers. We are engaging with
the Australian Government to develop our understanding of the
progress that they are making and are closely monitoring the
reaction from both publishers and platforms.
[V]
I thank the Minister for her Answer. Given the proportion of
people who now receive most or all their news through social
media, do the Government believe that public interest news
publishers should have fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory
access to strategically significant online platforms for news
production and distribution? Given the actions of Facebook in
recent days, how can that be secured for the future in the United
Kingdom?
(Con)
The right reverend Prelate makes an important point. My right
honourable friend the Secretary of State has been clear in his
concerns about Australian news being removed by Facebook. The
importance of authoritative news services has also been clear,
particularly during the pandemic, with the huge part that they
play. As I mentioned in my Answer, we are planning to create a
digital markets unit, which will ensure fair competition both for
publishers and more widely for other sectors. We remain committed
to ensuring that everyone can access authoritative information
easily and freely.
(Lab) [V]
Given the lack of transparency that typifies the working
practices of social media companies, would the Minister confirm
that the Government are working closely with their European
neighbours and the new Biden Administration in developing a
robust international legislative approach sufficient to bring
these vast and seemingly unaccountable empires within the legal
supervision of sovereign nations? If so, could she share with us
the progress made to date?
(Con)
I am unable to share the detail of the progress made to date, but
I can reassure the noble Lord that the Government are using every
opportunity for international dialogue with both our European
neighbours and others. This morning, my right honourable friend
the Secretary of State met with his counterpart in Australia and
he also recently met his counterpart in Canada. We are working in
the most collaborative way possible.
(LD)
[V]
My Lords, the Australian approach risks legislating in a way that
will create its own unintended outcomes. Content and copyright
for news publishers is just one part of the problem and can be
solved. Market dominance in access to data and in digital
advertising is a much bigger issue. We have had many reports
urging legislation and action: Cairncross, Furman, the digital
task force and now Penrose. Why are the Government dragging their
heels in bringing forward legislation to tackle it effectively?
(Con)
The Government are not dragging their heels, but, as the noble
Lord explained very eloquently, there are a lot of interlocking
issues here that our new digital markets unit will seek to
address.
(Con) [V]
I congratulate the Lord Speaker on his declaration of
independence and his remarkable ability to tweet from the
Woolsack. I refer to my entries in the register of Members’
interests. Three schemes in the UK currently support local
journalism, run by the BBC, Facebook and Google. Would my noble
friend the Minister consider creating a forum for publishers and
platforms, including, for example, Microsoft, to meet on a
regular basis to try to co-ordinate these different activities
and give proper, sustained financial support to local newspapers?
(Con)
I am very happy to take my noble friend’s suggestion back to
colleagues in the department, but I know that we are in regular
discussion with all the groups he mentioned.
(CB) [V]
I welcome the Australian Government’s action in creating a
mechanism to distribute the value of news media more fairly. I
hope that, when we do similarly, we will be able to ensure that
it benefits the entire news ecosystem, not only parts of it.
Deeply worrying was the spectre of the Australian Government
revising their domestic legislation as a result of a series of
phone calls with Mark Zuckerberg. Of course we need to hear the
views of all stakeholders but, given that Facebook is clearly
using its monopoly power and is willing to resort to bullying
tactics to revise the domestic legislation of a sovereign state,
does the Minister agree that, during the period in which we are
working democratically on a number of regulatory fronts,
including the online safety Bill, competition law and malicious
communication offences, all interaction between Facebook and the
Government should be on the record in committee hearings and
other public arenas so that it cannot undermine the transparent,
democratic legislative process that we all pride ourselves on?
(Con)
The Government believe that social media companies must be held
to account for the consistent and transparent enforcement of
their terms and conditions for those using their sites. That
includes online safety, to which the noble Baroness referred, but
also protecting people’s freedom of speech. We are establishing a
regime through the online safety Bill and the digital markets
unit that will do this transparently.
(Lab) [V]
My Lords, events in Australia highlight the right and importance
of Governments acting to ensure that online platforms recognise
the value of reliable news content. Would the Minister outline
for the House the principles that will inform the Government’s
approach to regulatory legislation as set out in the upcoming
online safety Bill, and spell out what measures are being
considered to outlaw online disinformation campaigns—fake
news—and how this will be balanced with the need to protect free
speech exemptions for journalists and writers?
(Con)
I fear I might be growled at by colleagues in the House if I
answer the noble Lord’s question in full, so I will write to him
with more detail on the online safety Bill. However, as he is
aware, it will focus on user-generated content, platforms that
allow user interaction, and search engines. More broadly on
competition, the regime will lead to an enforceable code of
conduct that will stimulate competition and innovation.
(LD) [V]
My Lords, the Minister has referred several times to the CMA’s
digital markets unit as one of the weapons that will be at our
disposal, but the CMA has called for new statutory powers for
that unit. Will she commit to those statutory powers being
included in the online harms Bill, which has just been referred
to, as new powers for the digital markets unit?
(Con)
The statutory powers for the digital markets unit specifically
relate to the code of conduct and how it will apply to platforms
that have strategic market status. If I have understood the noble
Lord’s questions correctly, those are separate from the online
harms Bill, but those powers will be put on a statutory basis.
(UUP) [V]
My Lords, there is a widespread feeling in the community that
these large companies are so powerful that an individual country
such as our own will not be able to stand up to them. I refer
back to the contribution from the noble Lord, , on
international co-operation to deal with them. Is that a properly
co-ordinated process? Can she also confirm, since most of these
companies are American-owned, whether this issue has arisen in
any trade discussions with the United States of America?
(Con)
The noble Lord is right that these are global companies and some
international co-ordination will be required to have the maximum
impact. We are very much working with partners, as I said in
response to the noble Lord, . We are also
aware that other countries around the globe and the major
platforms are looking at the work we are doing. We are leading in
our ambition in this field.
