House of Lords National Plan for Sport and Recreation Committee evidence session, Jan 27

The House of Lords National Plan for Sport and Recreation Committee today heard evidence from:

Panel 1

• Robert Sullivan, CEO, Football Foundation
• Chrissie Wellington, Global Head of Health and Wellbeing, Parkrun
• Yusra Uney, Engagement Lead, GoodGym

Panel 2

• Andrew Denton, Chief Executive, Outdoor Industries Association
• Gemma Cantelo, Head of Policy and Advocacy, Ramblers
• Sarah Mitchell, the chief executive of Cycling UK.

The following is a partially-edited transcript based on voice recognition software and will, therefore, contain some typographical errors. The fully edited transcript will be sent as soon as it is available.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:00:29] Can I just start off by asking you, Robert, but this was a question to all the panel, we began our inquiry really sort of looking at the government's existing plan to Sporting Future about sport and recreation generally in this country. And we'd like to know from you, how do you rate the government's efforts to get more people engaged in particularly community sport and recreation and leading a more active lifestyle? You know, is our plan actually working? And I think to add to that, how could Sport England, who are the main deliverer, could they work more effectively to support organizations like yours, which are delivering sport, recreation opportunities in local communities, and in other words, is towards an active nation doing what it says on the tin? So perhaps, Robert, you start us off.

Robert Sullivan [00:01:29] Thank you, Chair, and thank you to you and your committee for inviting me. I think it's a really important inquiry that can actually happen, more vital moment where everything we're going through as a nation. By way of context. As you know, the Football Foundation is the UK's largest sports charity. And we take funds from the Premier League, from the FA and from central government through Sport England. And we reinvest that into football facilities and multi-sports community facilities up and down the country. Over the last 20 years, we've successfully delivered one point five billion pounds worth of projects. And the important thing I want to stress that is that's taking turns on million pounds of public money and turning it into one point five billion pounds of the total project Brady. So we believe that as a way of matching and leveraging public money to invest in community facilities where we are at the Vanguard, they're delivering great facilities into communities. We think we have been an important part of that sports strategy that you asked me about. And I think what that strategy has done over the last few years has set a very clear framework for what outcomes sports bodies such as ourselves are attempting to achieve. And that's by targeting those social groups, demographic groups who we really want to see getting more active and playing more sport and participating in recreation. And we, the Football Foundation, believe great places to play great facilities is fundamental to that. I would say that it's the bedrock of everything that strategy seeking to do. And in what we saw yesterday from Sport England the menu strategy, which I think is really, really positive evolution of of of these previous sports strategy. I think we've got a good policy framework and a vision by which the Football Foundation and its work in investing in places to play, but also other organizations, such as my colleagues on the panel today can deliver that programs will be able to achieve that.

[00:03:44] So in answer to your second part of your question, we have a really, really positive partnership with Sport England. We find them a good partner both nationally, whether they create the direction of what they want to achieve with their investment to new facilities. And also on a local level, where I found personally when, for example, I've gone out to talk to local authorities about how to deliver local projects and plans in their area. I've often had Sport England representatives with me to talk alongside me and kind of bring to life the broader physical, mental wellbeing, personal and social outcomes that come from what those projects can deliver. So I would say that the strategy and Sport England works since it's been set and as recently as yesterday, the new plan that we all saw has been a positive thing.

Yusra Uney [00:04:43] Before I answer your question, I'd like to give a brief background... Which would lead nicely onto to answer your questions. GoodGym began about 10 years ago by trying to use money to help all the people. The intention behind it was to get fit and do good. Since then, we have grown organically. While we now offer full operation strands in many different cities, the four strands are working with older people, doing one tough task for them and doing group with community projects and community projects on their own as well. So we've continued this focus, focusing, using exercise to help people and community projects and building communities at the same time.

[00:05:23] Now moving on to your question, the government's interest in the impact of sport, physical well-being, mental wellbeing, individual development, so forth. It connects very strongly with our own beliefs. We strongly believe in the ability of sport on how it impacts on the many aspects of life. In that context of being physically active is more important than what the actual activity is. So, therefore, we do believe that the government policy has led to more interest in our work on central and local government, which has enabled us to grow and probably as a result of the government policy. I'm now working with Sport England myself to increase participation in physical activities of women, finishing education and looking at ways to keep them engaged with the activities of Sport England campaign, such as This Girl Can. And more recently, We Are Undefeatable, as they made the announcement of the strategy yesterday, it placed a very clear emphasis on trying to make engagement and physical activities easier for the nation. I think is in a really positive move, so we welcome that community connection aspect of what Sport England's strategy announced yesterday and their commitment to tackling inequality particularly. An interesting growth in sport in recent years has largely come from functional fitness. People are wanting to use sport to achieve other things, such as getting to work. Seeing and helping someone with something. These motivations are relatable for people are hugely important. I would like to see more people make use of physical activity as a way of achieving them equally. We are good and we understand that people want to be active. They want to fit it into their busy lives, and that they want it to be flexible, sociable, fun. I mean, just from my own experience before I joined the gym, I didn't run. It didn't appeal to me. However, I did want to get fit. I always wanted to get involved with communities and have an incentive, but without having to put too much time aside for it. And I think that's what the key thing is here overall with this new sort of strategies and good gym fits into that expectation. But despite that, we still believe there's still a long way to go in maximizing the outcomes of sport. And we want to invite more people and everyone who can benefit from it.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:07:47] Are you not simply talking to the people who are already motivated? People who are already actually low socioeconomic groups, you know, going to the gym, doing the sorts of things that you offer, the things they would do anyhow?

[00:08:04] That's a really good question. The answer is no actually. We do appeal to people who are not already involved, who are not already motivated. And that's because we've got the community aspect to it. We've got the angle of finding community initiatives working in outdoor spaces, which gives people the incentive to become more active through actions which are quite natural. For example, are going to continue to project and digging a bit of soil to plant some trees or bushes or helping a care home to cycle that furniture. So these are kind of natural everyday activities people can relate to, which is why it makes it easier for people to come together and get involved by being physically active without really thinking it's a sport or it's an activity. It's an activity that they have to make an effort for.

Chrissie Wellington [00:09:17] So thinking about how we, as Parkrun rate the government's efforts, I guess historically the government's focus has been on encouraging people to do 30 minutes of moderate or vigorous exercise every day. But bizarrely, this meant that someone managed to complete a five K in under 30 minutes then it simply wouldn't count is a bout of exercise.

[00:09:40] And thankfully, there's been a shift in recent years which began with Sporting Futures and towards an active nation and is front and centre of the Sport England strategy launched yesterday, which takes a much broader and much more nuanced view of activity and embraces movement in its widest sense, which is really, really important. And this is much more in line with Parkrun's philosophy and model, which encourages people to come together in the fresh air and move in whatever manner suits them, whether they will volunteer. Come along, come in on the watch, feed the ducks. It's far more important than whether someone hits a 30-minute minimum threshold. But looking at the data and Covid aside, the active life survey over the past few years has indicated that there have been some improvements in physical activity levels, but that the entrenched inequalities remain, whether that's by age, ethnicity, gender, disability, deprivation, status. And I think we also need to look beyond activity levels that the only metric and judge the government's success by whether it's delivering against its physical and mental health and wellbeing outcomes, as they stated in Sporting Futures.

[00:10:54] You know, when I was an elite athlete, I've been really physically fit, but still be lonely, be isolated or struggle with poor mental health.

[00:11:04] So we all know that being active alone isn't enough. And the data shows, for example, the Marmot Review, 10 years on, the life expectancy is declining. But more importantly, our overall health expectancy is declining and health inequalities are increasing. So all of this group together suggests that the government does have a long way to go. And a successor to Sporting Futures might be an important first step. But we don't believe that it can be done alone. And in a silo with one government department and looking to the future, we'd like to see a much stronger cross-party cross-departmental collaboration, especially with health and social care and with education.

[00:11:46] And to your second point time work, permit me too to detail the ways in which we work very, very strongly with Sport England. But just in answer to your question about how they can more effectively work with organizations, I think in three ways encouraging and supporting innovative and sometimes small scale ideas and initiatives while giving organizations the space to take risks and learn through trial and error. And that's really important. And it was emphasized in the new strategy, which is great. They can also act as a critical friend to organizations like Parkrun by looking beyond the impressive headlines and questioning whether our impact is sustained and whether it's meaningful. For example, as part of a project we have with them, we've set up a study for Parkrun events in areas of deprivation and yes, we could shout from the rooftops about that. But the real measure of success is whether people from those communities actually take part regularly so they can help challengers on those type of metrics. And then also look, like I said before, beyond activity and help build and share understanding about what forms of movement and what environments generate the biggest gains in terms of wealth creation and then invest and support organizations that can provide such opportunities. And we might come onto this later. But I think they also have a really important role, not only as an investor, but also as a facilitator. So bringing together physical activity organizations, yes. But even more importantly, organizations that are across sectors, for example, in our case, bringing together Parkrun, the Royal College of General Practitioners and others working in public health to really amplify what we're both trying to achieve in terms of getting less active people active and maximizing health outcomes.

Lord Addington [00:14:01] What are the key ingredients of building a successful and sustainable community sport and recreation offer, and I also like to add at the end of this, what is the best component of actually getting an individual active and joining in more group activities by the club or something else? I just want you to do it. And I think the two of the two are named first, I think are probably the natural conduit, if you like.

Chrissie Wellington [00:14:29] Yeah, again, a great question, and we at Parkrun are still learning, but if we reflect back on the last 16 years, I think the golden threads underpinning our success is that we've always challenged ourselves. We haven't been afraid to innovate or take risks and have been prepared to work closely with other organizations, like I said, to achieve our shared objectives. I think we've also been incredibly patient. It's taken 16 years to run to a place where we could support the delivery of over 2,200 events globally. And our definition of success has become maybe more polymorphic and multilayered over this time, too, because initially success for us in delivering one weekly event free of charge, then it was overseeing hundreds of events. And now we also measure success by our ability to improve health and well-being for all. And this shift is reflected in our mission, which is also very, very important, which changed from having a pop run in every community that once one to creating a healthier and happier planet. I think in terms of the nuts and bolts, long term success has been possible due to a simple single model of event delivery that we apply anywhere in the world, in any country based on the demand side.

[00:15:50] This model is being designed to remove as many barriers to participation as possible, whether they be financial, practical, social, cultural, psychological. For example, taking part is free. There's no need for special clothing or equipment. People can walk, run, jog, volunteer, come to a long watch and have a coffee afterwards. And we don't exclude certain groups. Families, friends and colleagues can take part together and above all the events of welcoming, friendly and social, which is a key to encouraging sustainable development.

[00:16:21] And so in answer to your second part, the question I think it's community it's socialization, integration, friendship and community, which is the bedrock not only of physical activity but of holistic health.

[00:16:34] I think it's really important, though, that we don't overlook the supply-side barriers. So we need to ensure that opportunities actually exist for people to be active. Providers across the UK frequently face barriers and actually launching and sustaining physical activity opportunities. So maybe expensive equipment, the need for personal infrastructure, being forced to jump through countless bureaucratic hoops, but by nurturing local assets, local community assets, whether that's passionate people, areas of open space, local infrastructure, Parkrun make it really, really simple for communities the world over to deliver our event and in a low cost, replicable and sustainable way.

[00:17:26] And then they enrich and empower that community. So in answer to your question of sustained success over the long term is due to solving the supply side of the equation, as well as removing all those well-known barriers to people actually participating.

Robert Sullivan [00:17:58] It's places, people and programs. So I think great community projects or environments have a great place to play to have people involved who are inspiring and motivating and create inspiration for young people in particular. And they can offer great programs. And those programs may be really formal team, sports, club and league environments, or they may be like Parkrun, something much more flexible and kind of less bureaucratic. So I think if you get the mix of those three things right and obviously the Football Foundation, we're really focused on our responsibilities, delivering great places for people to play. But I think if you can get the mix of those three things right, you're off to a good start. And, you know, to give a kind of example, when we put a project together for a new facility, we are working with the needs of the local community to identify where that pitch, that new ostrich approach, for example, might be. And we developed a usage plan for the community that creates all the right inclusion groups and all the different types of not just football, but multisport environments. And then you need to think about what might engage people on top of that. So that's where, for example, the brilliant work your family league foundation has come in because they get that little bit of aspirational fail to the community environment and that and that sense that they're part of something bigger as well as that local football club or whatever it might be. So you get a nice blend on the site together.

Yusra Uney [00:19:48] We feel the same. But part of our success alongside the local being free is the timing of flexibility, of what we offer, our good concessions that really has contributed to the success of the growth of the game regardless of the pandemic. And also the fact that there's a sense of identity for every one of people has these red t-shirts and it just gives people a sense of belonging. I mean, pretty covid type of what we're doing. Our group friends, it was almost like a flash mob running to go and do this community project with a purpose and then completing it and then doing a fitness session. And everybody went home happy. And another key ingredient in the success of the gym is that we try to keep our sessions ninety minutes and under. And the reason we do that is that we don't want it because it's taken a big chunk of time at the already very busy days. We want people to feel that volunteering is a sense of aspirational and exciting and fun rather than giving up your time or giving back.

[00:20:56] And because of these community initiatives, people who initially who were not very active or who couldn't be bothered, they start becoming active and they've gone on to complete marathons and these amazing runners. And it just goes to show that, you know, what an impact it can make. I mean, like like we also use the active lives and well-being measurements. And people have reported ninety-three per cent of improvement in their motivation to want to exercise, which just speaks volumes. And, you know, with the global pandemic, with the restrictions happening that has started in my 2020, you would have thought that people's activity levels would have declined. But finally, we looked at our stats and in twenty nineteen we did nine hundred eighty-seven thousand kilometres, a cumulative community. But last year during the pandemic, we did over one million, fourteen thousand kilometres of accumulatively, which just sort of attributes this, that people had more time to run and still want to be active, even more so because of the emotional benefits, the improvements in mental wellbeing, the social side people were running. So they were finding opportunities to go out and find opportunities to connect with communities. So that's been a really interesting perspective. And also the fact that locally, because you can't go far now, I think people really connected on the local level. They're investing time in finding out how to improve the local areas, such as the basis of what the local areas have got to offer. So I suppose that's a positive that's come out of the pandemic.

Baroness Blower [00:22:53] My question, you've all talked about work in different places. My question is, how do you describe the state of affairs in terms of the distribution of access to green spaces, sports clubs, leisure centres and other sports and recreation services and facilities? Because clearly some parts of the country are probably better served than others. So that's an issue we'll need to look at.

Yusra Uney [00:23:21] Thank you for your question. GoodGym is very much involved with working on finding opportunities to work in the outdoors. So we are the main message here is that we do support green spaces. We help to develop and improve green spaces. And we use this as a type of exercise. We support local authority, parks, community gardens, waterways and public space of all kinds across the UK doing planting and maintenance, using that as an excuse to turn essential maintenance into a workout. To elaborate further, we some of our great companies have adapted stretches of canals in London and Birmingham, of which we provide regular maintenance with planted trees in cities across the country, from Brighton to Boston to Newcastle. We're involved in tree planting schemes with edible forest where we collect seeds for them to identify and start to grow. We want to do more of this work and more deprived areas because we know that there are higher numbers of health problems in tree areas or with less clear spaces. The twenty to the 2010 community green research and the new 2020 strategy. Access to green space supports this comment. Our runners generally are very passionate. They care a lot about the use of green spaces and actively seek out local projects in which we can support them to contribute to the growth and maintenance of spaces. Another example is currently we're exploring a new collaboration with an Earthwatch project called Tiny Forest in North London. We're also hoping to be supporting the Trees for Street Project, which is looking to plant trees on streets and identified deprived areas. So because we operate across 58 locations around the country, we are able to provide ample opportunities for runners to get involved to make this happen.

Robert Sullivan [00:25:15] I'll focus my response to that question around football pitches specifically if I can because it's such an important part of our physical infrastructure. When we talk about sport and recreation, we have somewhere in the region of thirty thousand grass pitches in the country. But as you all know from your many year's experiences, that's a stock that's been dwindling and the quality has been deteriorating over a number of years for a great many reasons. But the Football Foundation and with our partners, the premier, we're determined to change that and address that. And that map at the moment very much speaks to what you eat, what you suggest in your question about an uneven distribution of quality and quantity. And we set about fixing that. So over the last two years, we've undertaken a strategic review and planning exercise across third and twenty-six local authorities across England. And I'm really pleased to say that every single local authority now has what we call a local football facility plan so every council can sit in front of it with the 10 or so projects which are needed to make a significant improvement to football and multi-sport community facilities in there in that council. And we're not directly engaging with every single one of those local authorities about how we deliver that over the next ten years. So I think in just one second, it's a really important moment for us that because for the first time we have if you like, the shopping list of need and it is needed because I have plans where we work together with local community groups, local football clubs, the councils themselves. So we're really confident that we have the right needs-based shopping list. If you like the projects we need to deliver, we have the funding in place and we were delighted in twenty nineteen when the Conservative Party committed the next five to 50 million to grassroots sports community capital projects in that election manifesto. And we're looking forward to that coming online soon because for us it's a kind of step-change moment. If we have the shopping list of projects and we have the funding, we will, for the first time in a strategic way, be able to address that uneven distribution that you took about in your question.

Chrissie Wellington [00:27:41] Having access to all kinds of open space is crucial for an organization like Parkrun and not just the parks and playing for woodlands and rivers and for beaches, et cetera, exist. But we as an organization always also have permission from landowners to use them. And thankfully, we rarely encounter problems in inquiring that acquiring that position permission. And we were really, really closely with the landowners to nurture the Valley Natural Capital across the UK. We can actually play a part in improving and protecting the depletion of open space assets because we've created an entire community that relies on their conservation. But we know that natural capital is diminishing across the UK and especially for those living in areas of social deprivation. And we also know from trying to establish events on the custodial estate, the access to open spaces, the limit to provision on many of those sites, too. So the inequality in access to open space and space that's also appealing and safe, makes being active outdoors so much harder for many, many people. And obviously, it's common for those without access to open space, to also experience other barriers to participation in physical activity, which is, I guess, creating a perfect storm for the deepening of those existing health inequities.

[00:29:15] And really importantly, I think the inequity in greenspace assets shouldn't be considered in the context of organized school or activity provision, we all need environments that encourage us to move our bodies and connect with others in every area of our lives, whether that's when the shopping, where commuting we're working and when we play, rather than also being increasingly immersed in the bubble that pushes us all down, sedentary and more isolated path for days on end.

Baroness Sater [00:00:26] How closely do you work with local authorities, local delivery agencies like active partnerships, always sports governing bodies or local sports clubs? And how could you work more effectively together? And could I just ask an additional part of the question is, do you think that the organizations I've just mentioned have been better, should be better connected and communicate better to deliver more effective local delivery? Perhaps. Robert, start with you.

Robert Sullivan [00:00:59] Thank you. To answer that question, I guess the first part, how do you work together? I think and I mentioned our local football facility plans, which I think I've kind of put the starting point to answer that question. So we created in every local authority region a kind of nexus, a consultation group to help us develop those plans based on what the need was for football and why the multisport community facilities in those regions. And that was a really positive experience for us, because I think being able to bring those people on the ground directly into that conversation to really identify the need to talk about the existing supply and where it could be improved. And I think we found really beneficial in developing those plans. But of course, the plans only take you so far. You didn't need to turn the plans, interactive projects and deliver them. And that's where I guess my second part of the answer be it could always be better. So we will always have really good examples at a local level where we've had great support from a CFA or a local community foundation or large affiliated club or league and the local authority working partnership. But these things are by their nature, they can be different depending on where you are. So in the best-case scenario, I think it works excellently and it really does help us deliver building projects with great usage plans and inclusive outcomes. But you can't always ensure it's the best project, can you? So and I think that would probably be the best way for me to answer that.

Yusra Uney [00:02:40] As usual, thanks for that question. GoodGym works collaboratively, that's what we're all about. And I think it works so well for us because we don't represent a specific cause. It enables us to really open up our reach and to collaborate with many different types of organizations. It allows us to offer a broader range of tasks which can appeal to more people in the GoodGym community and to those who want to be part of the community. And by that I mean the one is people who are interested in joining as volunteers. So, you know, you've got tasks like indoor tasks outdoors. Some people might be doing essential delivery tasks for prescription aid work. So we've got to because we're not specific to a cause, we can tap into a lot of collaborative work. So and it helps to make people to make running walking cycle as part of their lifestyle. So, for example, we work with a local multidisciplinary team. Um, for example, recently we had a referral from an occupational therapist and one of the hospitals asking if one of our vendors could help with a hospital discharge, um, to allow a hospital bed to be placed in the patient's home and do some shopping for some essentials. Another example of the kind of work we do is help with mutual aid nationally, delivering food parcels to the homeless, to the vulnerable, to socially isolated. For example, the Oxford Council. We do the pandemic. We've had the essential task of delivering prescriptions. And as a result, we've done over 5000 deliveries of essential medications to people. And, you know, as a result of this, we can work with any community partners who have a need. It could be very simple. It could be things, you know, going into a care home, helping the residents and working with them to help reduce their social isolation.

Chrissie Wellington [00:05:12] Collaboration is key to what we do and we work really closely with organizations across every area of our business, including Sport England Active Partnership, London Marathon, as well as organizations like GoodGym. But I just thought I'd mention the importance to Parkrun and also harnessing the strengths of organizations in other fields, not just staying within that physical activity silo, but reaching out to organizations in health, justice or education sectors, because that's been absolutely, absolutely integral to our work in terms of engaging audiences that might otherwise...what we offer a couple of examples. We've worked intimately with HMPPS to break new ground and establish Parkrun events, as I mentioned before, on the custodial estate. So so far, three thousand five hundred people have completed one of the twenty-four events in prisons and young offender institutions supported by around one thousand one hundred volunteers. And this was made possible because of a collaborative effort, a shared ethos, a shared vision and respect for each other's way of working open and honest dialog and I guess a willingness to take a risk and do something a little bit differently. And another example is where we've collaborated with public health. And I mentioned before, we've worked with the Royal College of General Practitioners. And in 2018 we launched the Partnership Practice Initiative, which is a social prescribing project which encourages GP practices to link with local popline events, to become certified practices and the practices that we commit to signposting patients to Part one, as well as the staff taking part themselves. And importantly, instead of being imposed from the top down, the initiative was the brainchild of clinicians who were already signposting patients to our events, and some practices were actually going a step further in setting up Parkrun events themselves. So at the national level of pay and Parkrun HQ simply collaborated and together provided the framework to scale it up. It has to be said this initiative is being run on a shoestring with no external support or investment. And despite all of the because of because it inspires kind of creativity and prioritization and the empowerment of local communities, the initiatives have been a huge success and over one thousand five hundred practices have signed up across the UK. It's now being rolled out in Ireland. It's about to be launched in Australia. It's won a number of awards, is supported by NHS England, the Public Health England. And we think of as a really, really good example of a collaborative partnership between physical activity, public health from the national level to the local level. And it's enabled both organizations, both Parkrun and RCGP, to achieve more together than we could ever do alone. So I think it's tempting to say a physical activity organization like Parkrun is only needing to collaborate with others in our sector. And we do. We work very closely with them. But I think we can amplify impacts by reaching out beyond that sector.

Lord Hayward [00:09:10] How do you promote diversity and inclusion among your workforce, volunteers, coaches and particularly participants? what you see is good practice in this area? And the reason I emphasize participants is I've made references on a previous occasion, and that is I live in inner south London, just off the wall with road. There is a park run in Burgess Park every Saturday. And you would think that I lived in one of the whitest areas in London. It is overwhelmingly white participants. And I just want to know, given my personal local experience, what you do in these circumstances and Yusra, whether you can identify whether there are cultural barriers that cause these circumstances in what is such an amazingly multicultural area.

Chrissie Wellington [00:10:02] It's interesting you mention Burgess Park because we have a phenomenal group of Ugandans that come down there most weekends. I'm surprised you haven't seen them or at least heard them, they're very vocal. But we want Parkrun to be for everyone. And so exclusivity lies at the heart of everything we do. So like Sport England, we follow the principle of proportionate universalism in that Parkrun is universally open to all, but also targets those most in need, such as people with chronic health conditions or disabilities, people from areas of social deprivation, minority ethnic groups, women and girls, to name a few. So how do we operationalize this, I guess, is your question. We have that standardized model of event delivery, which I mentioned before, which removes many of the common barriers that people face and helps promote inclusive city without us actually needing to do anything specific or proactive to target certain groups. And volunteering has also been mentioned. And it's worth noting, having a volunteer-led model actually promotes inclusive diversity and encourages more people to take part, including those who may not want or be able to walk or run five K. But that said, we've taken steps to adapt to amend that model to enhance inclusive attitude. For example, in 2017, we renamed the tailor runner, so that's basically the person that's at the back who always finishes last, the tail walker, which is the seemingly minor but really highly visible and significant marker of our commitment to encouraging those who want to walk. And last year one hundred and forty-two thousand walks were completed at UK Parkruns. And this is growing year on year. And we also actually chase the gender categories on our global registration form, adding another gender identity and prefer not to say to the existing male or female options. And since then over seven hundred and fifty people have selected those. So previously also might have excluded those who didn't identify with that kind of binary male or female classification, but we have not been able to include them linked to this. We need a systematic collection of registration and participation patient data to help us build a picture and hold ourselves to account with regards to diversity and inclusion, and augment this insight with the health and wellbeing research that we undertake, either internally or in partnership with a partner research board, which is chaired by Sheffield Hallam University. Think the way in which organizations communicate their message is really important. So that imagery kind of written on visual content needs to be in line with the mission of inclusivity. And on top of all of this, Parkrun can layer specific outreach projects to engage all of the groups I mentioned. We work with asylum seekers. We work with those with long term conditions. We have the one practice initiative. We work with those in custody, for example. So those are more targeted strategies attempting to stimulate demand and address some of the barriers that those people face.

Robert Sullivan [00:13:35] For us, it's about ensuring that every facility project through the assessment phase and has the right levels of inclusion and accessibility baked into the assessment of what it's going to achieve. So whilst we aren't ultimately responsible for what happens on those sites, in the longer term, we can make sure that when projects and community groups are accessing funds to deliver on those sites, that we're headed to the highest standards of inclusion and accessibility we wish to see.

Yusra Uney [00:14:27] It's a very interesting topic at the moment where charities are not very diverse and neither is running and running is for some reason associated as being a white activity. If you speak to people from ethnic backgrounds, you know, when I speak to my family members, oh, we don't do running. It's not really for us. We try to do other sports like basketball or football. On the other hand, does that have a colour to it, but for some reason running that. So these are two main areas in which GoodGym operates. We are actively trying to help to improve this by looking at the language in our recruitment policy first and foremost, and also in the context and as well as the image we use in our marketing. So we are aware that the current GoodGym marketing imagery is very is not representative. It's not very diverse. We're also looking at how we can reach out to communities and new runners. So as an organization, it's our goal to create better-connected communities. And we recognize we can't do this without involving all types of people in our work. So we aim to be representative of the communities in which we operate. And we want to play a part in getting to know those communities as a way to overcoming that, to allow for more cohesion. So one way we are positively already doing this is by creating a strong local ownership across our 50 areas. And we do that in the recruitment process where we try to aim local people and try to recruit local people. We want to recruit someone with strong connections to the community groups in the area because that's how they are going to be able to make GoodGym really specific to their area, specific to the demographics in that area, because every area has their own field, has its own customs and way of doing things. So autonomy in our workforce is really important and it also allows people, our area activities to put a personal stamp into their areas. And it gives them a sense of ownership, a real strong sense of achievement, as well as for the diversity and inclusion for our volunteers. We do this through building the connections in the community. Our sessions are flexible. They're able to take place in many different venues, community projects and organizations that represent various religious, ethnic, ethnic groups, age groups. What that means is that we are frequently introducing our volunteers across these boundaries. From a volunteer perspective, let's say somebody hasn't ever met other ethnic groups or other communities, you know, age groups. They come through the to the root of our activities as a whole. We do have a very diverse mix of members, but we still have some groups which are underrepresented. So we are still working hard to increase participation numbers from those underrepresented groups. We're also working to increase the diversity of the organization as a whole. So recruitment stuff is difficult and we do recognize that we've still got a bit of work to do on this. And we're working hard to understand the barriers to participation at all levels in the organization and on a local level. And we are taking steps in the right direction. We're having those conversations and that just shows that we will be moving in the right direction.

Lord Knight of Weymouth [00:17:58] I think this is a really fascinating and difficult and intractable area, particularly differentiating between the barriers related to poverty and, for example, the barriers related to ethnicity and probably needs an interlocking approach. And fascinating to hear what people are doing. And my observation of Parkrun, as an enthusiastic park runner myself in diverse Lewisham, is very similar to Lord Hayward's. And yet when I run around the same parks, not on the Parkrun, I see a lot of young black men as personal trainers. And you know, when I lived in Weymouth, a lot of white working-class boys who went to school with my son ended up as personal trainers. Should we be using those sorts of people who are coming from the sort of diverse backgrounds that we want to harness, the way we want to target, to harness their activity and their role modelling, to engage the communities that they've come from?

Yusra Uney [00:19:12] I think that's a really valid point. And I agree with that. I think you're able to reach out to those communities. It's really important to tap into the skill sets that are fun for them. So if you if we see that there are more people from black communities who are personal trainers, then we should be encouraging them to get involved as a route to making the nation more active. So I think it's not about saying dictating which sport is right, because I think there's is a sport for everybody that feels right for them. It's about acknowledging those sports, appreciating those sports and valuing those sports and allowing people to put a personal feel to it and engage in their communities. And I think people can relate to it as well. So whichever way gets people moving, I think that's really important. So we feel the example of certain communities are bigger on wrestling, for example. Why not get people moving? Let's promote it.

[00:20:15] It would be nice to see people from different sporting backgrounds taking interest in each other's sports as well, and not just theirs. That's where that sort of barriers could be crossed. And there'll be more outreach as well. And I think also just by talking about I think if we had more money from the government to invest in targeted groups of people to become personal trainers or to become or to become coaches or to become, you know, judo instructors, I think, and target the specific group, whether those in need, I think that would also help to overcome that sort of gap in the market

Chrissie Wellington [00:21:01] Thank you for the question, Lord Knight, and for your observations, as you said, we agree. I mean, there's no one single panacea and there are lots of different ways for people to be active. And if those people are active outdoors in that parks, then that's fantastic. Whether or not they're engaged with Parkrun is another matter. But obviously, it is incredibly important that we work with local community groups, that we recruit our own outreach ambassadors, our volunteer outreach ambassadors that are deeply embedded within those communities. So they have the knowledge and the insight and the expertise of those communities to really engage and understand the groups that we're trying to relate to.

[00:21:45] I think, secondly, working to identify the barriers to participation, what is stopping people at that very local level from taking part? Is it a lack of knowledge? Is it a fear of judgment? Is a fear of fitness and really working with those local leaders, like you said, to address those barriers? And lastly, the messaging is so important, the way in which we communicate what we are and what we're about, but also who communicates it. And again, using local leaders, local voices, local channels that resonate with the population with whom we're trying to engage is absolutely vital.

Lord Snape [00:22:39] Thank you. A general question to end this particular session. So all three of you. What recommendation would you like to see this committee make to government when to produce a report?

Robert Sullivan [00:22:58] Yes, I think for me and I would request, if I could, that's the importance of places and pictures and facilities is paramount in your recommendations, because I think I think the committee is exploring lots of interesting ideas around coordination and community access. But as I said earlier in the session, having a great place to participate and play whatever that sport may be, obviously, and find a gem, particularly for football, I think is fundamental. And I think great community spaces, great pictures, great clubhouses can and have not only the physical activity benefits we want to see, but so much more in terms of their societal benefits of bringing communities together and also the kind of mental wellbeing and resilience aspects of that which I think is going to be so important to us as a society pandemic. So my first one would be decimated, the importance of the pitch and the place. And if I can and it isn't to detract from the brilliant programs like Parkrun or GoodGym, I'd actually like to make a bit of a personal play for football. I think we shouldn't underestimate the fact that football is a mass participation activity. It's one of the six core ways that people are active in this society. And it starts at the very young stages and through brilliant things like walking football goes all the way to the oldest age groups. People love it. People love the social elements of it, the team elements of it. And I would really want to see football at the heart of any future government plans. I'm really delighted in what Sport England produced yesterday because I think it does recognize the value of team sports like football and the places in which it needs to play as being cool to get the nation moving. And, you know, and I think we should celebrate more. In fact, we do have in England, which is just unbelievable global phenomenon in the Premier League and its clubs and, you know, a governing body in the FA that distributes more back to its grassroots than any other national governing body in the world. And, you know, that is a huge boon to grassroots football and to grassroots wider sport, because what we can say with those funds and delivering the community projects goes far beyond what kind of narrow purview of football itself. So, yes, a shameless plug for football as well as a little concentration on physical spaces to play.

Yusra Uney [00:25:39] To Robert's lovely wish list, football does have a lot of importance. I totally agree with him, but from a GoodGym perspective, I have quite a lot of things I'd like to put on my wish list for. I'd like the committee to make to the government. But obviously, I have to choose one in the context of Sport England strategy and what the gym offers to the community. We would like to be able to run, walk and cycle around our cities away from congested roads and completely separate cars if possible.

[00:26:12] So it would be nice if the government could prioritize sustainable transport routes for running, walking and cycling, allowing people to feel safe and designated areas for that. So that would be a little recommendation from GoodGym.

Chrissie Wellington [00:26:39] Prior to Covid, Parkrun delivered events which involved one hundred and seventy thousand people. Every single weekend, supported by seventeen thousand volunteers, so in the short term and as soon as feasible, we'd recommend that the government supports the resumption of low risk activity interventions, especially those such as Parkrun which are undertaken outdoors as a really, really important way of healing the deep rooted physical and mental health scars that are hurting every single sector of society. But more generally and in the longer term, over five years has passed since the publication of Sporting Futures, and given that the landscape has changed so fundamentally since then, I think we'd recommend that the government consider whether that strategy is fit for purpose and develop a new framework to guide its activities for the years ahead. I think just to finish off, I'll come full circle. And it brings me back to the point I made at the start and recommend that all future sport and physical activity strategies are fully cross-departmental in scope and in commitment, recognize and value every single form of movement. And just as importantly, that they place meaningful social interaction and socialization and community and holistic health and improved life expectancy for all at the heart. It's a kind of a big wish, but hopefully that can be encapsulated in any new strategy going forward.

[00:29:05] Panel 2.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:29:06] We welcome our second panel for this afternoon. Andrew Denton's the Outdoor Industry Association chief executive. Gemma Cantelo, the head of policy and advocacy of the Ramblers, and Sarah Mitchell, the chief executive of Cycling UK.

[00:00:04] How would you rate the government's efforts to get more people engaged in outdoor sports and recreation and leading an active lifestyle. This is a committee that really wants to see Britain become a leading nation across the world in terms of promoting active lifestyles. How is the government doing and how could it do better?

Gemma Cantelo [00:00:26] Thank you and thanks for inviting me to give evidence today, so we're Britain's biggest walking charity. We've got 100000 members. We run five hundred reports, but also three hundred and sixty five walking schemes aimed specifically at people who tend to be less physically active. And that's with backing from Sport England. We also advocate for people's access to the outdoors more broadly.

[00:00:55] And actually, in answering the question, I want you to get a slightly broader in my answer than perhaps the answers in the previous session and look at activity across the board. So I think what we see is some really positive steps. We see more people walking. We've seen increases in particularly women walking over the last five years. We know there were still gaps and entrenched gaps, particularly since the start of the pandemic. So we're seeing an entrenchment of gaps with people from Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds and people from lower incomes. That's why we've really appreciated the recognition, particularly you get over the course of the pandemic with the importance of exercise and physical activity. And not just for sport, of course, is incredibly important.

[00:01:46] But that daily movement and daily physical activity, including walking, is an important part of people's lives and an important part of what enables them to be active. And we've seen some positive steps in investing in walking and cycling infrastructure over the last 12 months and also positive promotion of social prescribing in nature prescribing schemes which help to get people both walking on cycling. I think for us, where we see the gap is in the cross-governmental activity that creates places that are designed for walking and cycling.

[00:02:28] So we have seen a trebling of investment in walking and cycling that puts the spend at about seven pound fifty. Perhaps that still leaves us some way behind some of the flagship nations like the Netherlands, who over the course of about 40 years have invested around twenty-six pounds per head just in cycling. So there is a disconnect and the level of investments that we put into active travel schemes. And at the same time, we've also seen a decline in investment in the places, the green spaces particularly, that enable us to get outside and be active. So we know that people who live within 500 meters of accessible green space. Twenty-four percent more likely to meet recommended physical activity levels.

[00:03:14] But we've seen a decline in the level of investment in some of those green spaces, whether that's the path network, whether that's a local parks or whether that's national trails. So we think there's more that could be done there. And finally, we'd like to see that the greater privatization across government policymaking.

[00:03:39] So there was some missed opportunities at the moment that would make physical activity a part of people's lives. You've got the environment bill going through parliament at the moment. They were talking about climate change and legislation. Quite likely. We would like them to also be a target around people's access to the natural environment. And we know that would have a positive impact on the levels of physical activity. And similarly, as we're looking at what we're spending through the new agricultural payments regime with most of our network on agricultural land, we think there's another opportunity to divert money towards things that would improve public access to where people live and make more accessible to people who might be able to access them, because I still think this will affect communities where they live.

Andrew Denton [00:04:50] Going back to 2015, David Cameron appointed me to work with Tracey Crouch as the chair of the working group that puts the Outdoor Recreation Park into Sporting Futures in 2015, for which we as a sector are eternally grateful. And that was in the capacity as chief executive of the IEA. We've got about two hundred business and organization members, so unlike the other two here who are sort of business to consumer and business to business. So that will mean I'll have a more general strategic overview. But members themselves have tens of millions of people say that might be the national trust over the Ramblers or British mountaineering, British canoeing, but also JD Sports or Berghaus or North Face or brands as well. Youth Football Association conference tournament. So we've got a super broad strategic overview here. And I think that's why the prime minister asked us to contribute that. Has it been a success or not? Well, it's certainly a huge move forward. For the first time, active travel, walking and cycling for transportation were included in part of the work that we did with Sport England involved is moving from the to the new active lives of people, which have been fantastic. A lot of what I do, I sit representing outdoor recreation on the council, met with a new captive, and that integration has been way, way back with UK active and Sport England working together since. So lots of positives. I think the phrase sports and physical activity is a fantastic outcome. From 2015, it was historically quite sports orientated. If there's been an area that one would like to see more and I'll cover that at the end with our last big ask as well, I suppose. But it's that it could go further across the continent to work in the concept of physical activity and movement for health being across all areas. There's a flavour still within Sporting Futures within its name and its title. If the pandemic has taught us anything at the moment, if the tragic passing of one hundred thousand deaths at the moment has taught us anything, it's that we are as a nation, not active enough. We suffer from overweight and obesity issues and have a two trillion dollar deficit. Four hundred billion extra borrowing this year. If we look back at prevention rather than cure as investment long term in the health of the nation, mental, physical and social health, I think perhaps the twenty fifteen was underwhelming in its scope and what it could have done to build a healthy and more robust, more resilient nature might have been more exciting for the way we ended up.

Sarah Mitchell [00:07:41] Thanks very much for inviting me. Great to see you all. I'm probably going to echo the first two of my colleagues, actually, so in some respects, so it's Cycling UK's mission is about making cycling a safe, accessible, enjoyable and most of all, really normal activity for people who perhaps aren't always the usual suspects in cycling. So I guess cycling does have a huge range of benefits. But one of the challenges for that with us in terms of government policy is that means that all benefits range over a number of different government departments. So I think we've got a fantastic commitment from the government now through gear change, which was the policy commitments, the huge document that was put out in July last year around cycling, which was a really bold vision for cycling and walking. So there are some great commitments in there, but a lot of those commitments are connected with other government departments where perhaps there isn't the same level of commitment as the kind of Home Department or the Department of Transport. So I think there could be huge benefits and additional gains from having input from education and cycle training for young people, health policy, obesity, environmental policy around air quality. And I suppose in a kind of overview, we feel that there's a great opportunity there. And if only we could get that across departmental working better, then we'd be able to reap far greater rewards across the board for cycling.

Lord Moynihan [00:09:18] Good afternoon. We've taken evidence to demonstrate how important the sport and recreation sector is to social and community development as well as to the economy. And we've been very interested in your views on that, in particular, how we can capitalize on the current boom in informal outdoor exercise and physical activity. And we've had a lot of very good comments throughout both sessions about how positive the outlook is. But what we really want to address is what the barriers are to those two items. What are the difficulties? What are the challenges you face?

Gemma Cantelo [00:09:58] So, as you said, the benefits and the impact on the economy, social and community factors, I think is well made. And obviously, I'll emphasize the benefits specifically of walking to tourism, but also to local communities. And we know the workers in areas where walking infrastructure is prioritized spend up to 30 per cent more in local shops. So there's a real tangible benefit to local communities of promoting walking infrastructure, both for tourism, but also for local communities as well. Think some of the barriers that go back to that lack of investment in some of the spaces that could be and often have been our flagship green spaces. So making sure that we're investing in flagship initiatives like the England Coast Path and national trails to ensure that they are of high quality and promoting those to both international and domestic tourists and also to local communities. And of course, that we're allowed to travel that access such as this. Similarly, promoting local footpath networks and the routes that exist around towns and cities that people can use to access local amenities, to connect to green spaces in nature or even to connect to their local sports centres, too often those routes can feel unsafe.

[00:11:28] And we know that feeling safe in those spaces can be a particular barrier for young people and similarly for young people. We know not knowing where you can go for a walk or having people to go with is a barrier. So investing in schemes that enable people to get out those walking schemes for the younger people, walking schemes for older people, and working schemes for people who are less physically inactive to get them physically active as part of a great walk, but also to give them the confidence to access the outdoors is where they live off the field on an ongoing basis. For us, the barriers are around, making sure you're investing in green infrastructure and making sure that you are then investing in targeted interventions that enable people to actually get out and explore those places.

Lord Moynihan [00:12:33] Much of what we've heard this afternoon has been about locally-driven objectives, the importance of embracing differences between localities and specific initiatives locally. And yet the work you did with Sporting Futures and much of what is being discussed has been top-down financing. And Sport England was no exception yesterday with an additional 50 million. Should we not be doing much more to address the two issues that I've mentioned by focusing on local authorities and looking to local authorities to be the catalyst for significant changes in this area?

Andrew Denton [00:13:06] Yeah, I mean, that's a very fair point, and I think tackling the broad question first, we did some work with the Sport and Recreation Alliance, another great partner was working closely and we could do something with it with the catchy title of Recrenomics.

[00:13:28] But it values the...recreation economy, for outdoor recreation, and it's put it somewhere around 22 billion. So it's that absolute integration. I'm coming back to local authority here that, for example, we all know that in better times when tourism will recover, over 50 per cent of British inbound tourism is within the M25. But outside of that, which is vital to stimulate our economy to generate travel and tourism and visitor numbers, six out of 10 of the things that people do are outdoor recreation orientated. They love going for a walk along, visiting our national parks to go to Cumbria. They go to the borders. Outdoor recreation is a massive driver. It is the biggest number of beds after business camping and caravanning in the UK. So it's a huge, broad base as opposed to specific sports, which can be quite niche orientated. Outdoor recreation, which I include cycling, walking. The three of us here do cover that really, really broad. So. Twenty-two billion suddenly when you think that the fishing industry is nine hundred and eighty million and outdoor recreation is 22 billion, well, starts to understand not only the value size and the employees and the tax but the health benefit of every single one of those pounds. So to do with it at a local level. Absolutely, because it is a fractured community, it isn't six big pharma or one big fishing fleet. It's tens of thousands of asthmas. Individual walking guides in Cumbria, small walking groups, small cycle, high canoe, hiya go ape trails, lots of lots of different things, encouraging people to be active, to visit, to travel, to camp, to climb, to walk, to canoe and drive in that. So, for example, at the moment we're doing some work if they're watching for the Cumbria tourism adventure sector, which has been devastated by this because they primarily thrive on overseas visits. Americans, people come in internationally to do guided walks, guided cycles, lama backpacking, mountain biking across the country on the states to see trail absolutely devastated. And so you've got Kumbia there, which is sitting in the middle of this economic impact and having its consequent health impact as well. So certainly I think for the benefit, going back to your original question of society and community and the economy, outdoor recreation can blue all of that together, put millions and millions, if not billions of pounds of taxes back? And they can employ people in the rural community, particularly young people, people who are harder and will try to employ in some of the urban communities and really start to drive health as an outcome of a bigger community, a bigger economic impact, if you like. And so pushing it locally and pushing it there with tourism and with local authority. Absolutely.

Sarah Mitchell [00:16:36] I agree with Andrew. Just in cycling alone there is a huge benefit to the economy. So we've estimated that the total tourism spend from cyclists and mountain bikers is about five hundred twenty million pounds, which is huge, and there are about thirty seven thousand jobs attached to that. In normal circumstances, we can do some work with three big counties around how they could exploit local tourism for their own, for their own gain locally. And just on the kind of the social and community point. Yes, absolutely. There are huge benefits, both in terms of society and community and environmental impact around cycling. And the point about barriers, I suppose probably quite similar to Gemar. So I think one of the great things about the initial lockdown related to covid, if there could be one good thing about it, despite all the other tragedies that we've had to put up with the infrastructure, I think it showed that when votes are quieter, people do want to go out on their bikes. We saw a huge increase of people on bikes. We also really, interestingly, have seen evidence there was a massive increase in women getting out on their bikes during that period, which I think is really interesting, is something we've been working on a lot at Cycling UK. We're really keen to make inroads on it. So we've been looking at the learning from that inform some of our projects. But I think we can't just rely on infrastructure. I think there has to be some emphasis on behaviour change. So thinking about what are the practical psychological barriers for people with getting started on exercise like cycling for the first time, some of that obviously has to do with cost and access to bikes, but a lot of it is also to do a role model.

[00:18:06] And understanding that people like me could be on a bike and that's one of the areas of work that we're really focused.

Lord Krebs [00:18:20] Going back to the opening question and I think possibly Sarah might answer this. Both Sarah and Gemma talked about across government department coordination. One department that hasn't been mentioned is the Department of Communities and Local Government because it seems to me with the government's proposal to build 300000 new homes a year, they're not nowhere near that, but that's what they want to do. It's really important that in building those new homes, whether they're new villages, towns or new developments within existing cities such as my home city of Oxford, that cycling and walking are taken into into account. And my question very simply is all new developments taking into account walking and cycling sufficiently, in your view?

Sarah Mitchell [00:19:15] No, not at the moment. I mean, we obviously support the house building program. It's incredibly important for all of us across the country that we get decent, affordable housing for people across the country. But there's this huge opportunity, isn't there, with the planning bill that we could be making in from the start, the active travel element. So to make it easy for people, easier for people to cycle into town than to drive into town, easy for people to walk into town than to drive into town. And also it would help the government to fulfill a lot of its other obligations and commitments around green transport and air quality. So for us, it just seems like a really obvious point to make that into planning now to help to fulfill those commitments and reach the goals that we all want to achieve in the future. And unfortunately, at the moment, so many new developments are in very codependent locations, which then lead to further, not only further traffic and pollution, but it also puts people off cycling on those roads because they become too busy. So, yes, I would agree.

Baroness Morris [00:20:22] You've all three of you put together cycling and walking, and you've talked about feeling safe from vehicles. I want to raise the question of pedestrians feeling safe from cyclists because I think it's really something that drives me mad. And certainly in London, I think the thing that will stop people walking is cyclists on the pavement going the wrong way down one way streets and the rest of it. And I know you'll say that's not legal, but I've never yet heard of those bylaws or guidance ever, ever being enforced. And I'm reasonably active, I think. And I think I moved reasonably quickly. But I certainly don't walk in straight lines down the pavement because I don't think I need to. And therefore, I'm constantly fearful of the cyclist. I think this is an increasingly big issue and I wouldn't like to see the public turn against cyclists, but I think unless something is done, they will do because they are threatening the safe space for pedestrians in what is designated pedestrian space. So I think my question to you is twofold. As leadership of the sector, do you think you can do anything about this? And secondly, is this something government ever talk to you about when they're talking about developing opportunities for cycling and walking?

Sarah Mitchell [00:21:57] I don't see it as a conflict between cyclists and walkers. And certainly we work very closely with the Ramblers and with living streets. Obviously there is a different question about occasional cyclists who was cycling on pavements. That's not that's not what we would represent. That's certainly not what we would advocate. I think certainly on not just on London roads, but particularly those are very congested. This is why we would always call for there to be segregated, separate cycle lanes so that cyclists have somewhere where they feel safe to cycle, particularly cyclists who aren't experienced like this. He would feel nervous about being on busy roads, encountering traffic, but also say that pedestrians also have clearly their own part of the pavement and the road, the roads for cars. And that, I think, would be the solution that would make it safer for all of us in whatever form, but particularly those who are involved in active transport and therefore contributing and being helpful, I guess, both in terms environment and looking after their own health. I don't know if you've got anything else that you would add to that.

Gemma Cantelo [00:23:12] As a person who both walks and cycles, but emphasized the importance of infrastructure that limits the opportunity for conflict, so segregated spaces for cyclists, we know sometimes that those conflicts do happen. And also really recommend a report by Transport for All yesterday which talks about how we can make sure that no traffic neighbourhoods are accessible for everybody. And I think there's a huge amount of learning a lot about how we could make sure that spaces are designed so that the most vulnerable people in our communities who are walking also, I think are catered for when we design designing our towns and cities. So there's a lot to be improved. But I think a lot of the challenges are because of poor infrastructure.

Baroness Grey-Thompson [00:24:18] Hello, sir. I'm terribly sorry, I wasn't sure I was going to join the session, so I only came late, so I haven't actually got my questions open. Can I apologize for that? You kind of made an assumption that because I didn't know I was going to be here, it would have been automatically reallocated, knew we knew you would be here.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:24:34] So but I'll deal with the questions that you might want to come in then. Thank you. This was the question. How would you describe the state of affairs in terms of distribution and accessibility of green spaces and other open areas where outdoor sport and recreation can take place? And to what extent do the current planning and other regulations help or hinder outdoor sport and recreation? And this perhaps picks up some of the points from the last question as well.

Baroness Grey-Thompson [00:25:10] And I'm really interested actually, in terms of walking and cycling, how we can make it easier, especially for disabled people. But actually, this fits into planning where, you know, a lot of bike paths, footpaths now have stiles or barriers. And the only people they seem to stop wheelchair users or maybe older people. So it's how and they have that for very good reasons. But how we could just be more creative in terms of opening spaces, whereas what we seem to see a lot of at the moment, especially around Oxford and Cambridge, is those open spaces being shut down. And when you add in sort the parking and accessible toilets and it just makes it harder and harder for a large group of people to be active. Thank you, Lord Willis.

Andrew Denton [00:26:12] We'd love to send you over the Ordnance Survey. This is all the green and blue spaces just in London alone that we managed to highlight. And when you look at it, it's staggering what there is for people to be able to get at or an active and you may or may not have heard of, Daniel Raven-Allison, who launched the London National City Park last year in bolder and better times. So it is possible to be active outdoors. But as Tony says, it can be incredibly challenging and I think because generally are both better and more up to speed on this, I'm going to not wasting one's time and handed over perhaps to Sarah first and then I'll take you back.

Sarah Mitchell [00:27:08] So Ramblers and Cycling UK have been working together on the Environment Bill. Obviously, there's a point that I made in response to Lord Krebs' question about planning, which is a big concern, an area of importance for us. And then I guess other areas for us are where routes are kind of joined up. So I think one of the challenges I think that we face with cycling is there are lots of really individual interesting good routes, but they're not necessarily connected properly in a way. And that's a frustration that we understand and do share. And they could be not connected because of barriers like Stiles, for example, which make them inaccessible for all sorts of people who want to use those.

[00:27:46] But they could also be because there are major roads that can that mean that they can not be connected up properly or the cycle path only goes so far. So that's also an area of concern for us, too.

Gemma Cantelo [00:27:59] And taking the first point about distribution of green space first, so we know that two point seven million people don't live within ten minutes walk of green space, that's important for how much physical activity they do. And we also know that those people who are least likely to live close to green space are people from black, Asian and minority ethnic communities and people with a household income under fifteen thousand pounds of people below the poverty line. So that entrenches some of the gaps in health outcomes that we see too.

[00:28:39] Taking the point about stiles and improving access so we can completely agree with all of the points that Baroness Grey-Thompson raised, so we know that the countryside and our path network isn't as accessible to everyone as it should be.

[00:28:58] We think there needs to be more investment to ensure that inaccessible furniture like styles where possible replaced by things that are more accessible. But we think there also needs to be improvements to things like servicing and some of the other less visible barriers to access like public transport signposting so people don't know where they can go and creating secular walls that enable people not to walk from one point to somewhere far off in the distance. But that leaves them somewhere that's more accessible by the public.

[00:29:35] So we would describe the current distribution as unequal. We think there's a lot that we could do to improve the quality and accessibility of the green spaces that we can access.

[00:29:57] That's really useful. I think in terms of activities, one of the things that was forgotten in terms of outside spaces, in terms of how you can make it accessible, you obviously don't want concrete to be stuck everywhere. But there are sometimes barriers put in place that the that for the right reasons but never seemed to be thought about.

Andrew Denton [00:30:20] Lord Willis, can I just add a final point on access generally because of a number of you actually have been involved in the agricultural bill and something called the shared ... Access to Rivers and Waterways. And I know some of you are aware of that. British Canoeing has done a huge amount of work here. Access to our access to waterways was left behind in the Crow Act. And in terms of a lot of the work that we do, our constant talks about disyllabic disabled access and the work we do with canoeists is fantastic in this area. And so it would just urge you to listen to British Canoeing as some of them what they're doing with some of you on the agricultural bill and the possibility not of giving canoeists more space, but as just share sustainable access to waterways so that it matches somewhat with the Crow Act in the more can access we have at the moment.

Lord Addington [00:31:12] Just to come in there on that, what we discovered just for the rest of the committee on the agriculture bill, when we're doing the access to things in the possibility of it, was the fact that there was tremendous resistance. So anything to do with ribbons on a coherent basis and also a very unrealistic attitude to actually what could be achieved and that the two sides really were still at loggerheads. That I just think if we're going to have a look at that at any point about encouraging this area, there has to be some sort of coherent planning about how you get to water and what better water can be used because you cannot have all that much downstream when you people are fishing without getting somebody very upset.

Baroness Brady [00:32:04] Thank you, Lord, Chair and good afternoon, everybody. We know, don't we, that the UK is very fortunate to have some of the best countryside and outdoor spaces in the world. And I really wanted to ask the witnesses today, how do we really encourage and foster a lifelong love of the outdoors among children and young people? Because we know that in England the outdoor adventure activities are part of the curriculum. But a report in twenty eighteen said that the amount of time young people are spending outdoors and all these activities is declining. So are there sufficient opportunities through schools and other channels for children to experience outdoor activities in?

Andrew Denton [00:00:54] This is a real passion for me. I was a teacher and I was on the board of something called Project Wild Thing, which you if you've not seen the movie to go, it was a collaboration between National Trust, RSPCA, Play England, RSPB about exactly this, about children's need to engage with nature and the outdoors and its manifold. It isn't just physical activity and sport, which is what we're here for, but people that love the outdoors protect it. Climate change is one of the biggest challenges we've got the environment, people that are brought up in the outdoors and there's some incredible research coming through. Outrebounded not with residential about building, resilience, building, character building, opportunity to bounce back. The challenges that our children under at the moment with a year down are extraordinary. And at that same time, the last time a child had an outdoor residential was March to 16, 20, 20. And we very much doubt they'll be having them possibly this summer if we're really lucky. But even in that case, with masks and to make to taping around them, it's just tragic. We've got tens of thousands of instructors, mountain guides, ski instructors, climbers, just stocking shelves and Amazon and Tescos at the moment. So it's just vital. And I suppose there is a big petition going on around the moment for outdoor residential support... So please do bear in mind, you see that petition in terms of what we've done announced. In terms of Baroness Brady's question, we've kind of done it. We got money from Unilever to fund this movie. We've got it on Channel 4. We got it on 50 cinemas throughout the UK. There's a huge plan there. There's loads of background. There's asks about including outdoor residential as an activity, an offset. At the moment. You can expect a school. And as long as it's good at its reading, writing and arithmetic, it can be outstanding. Well, we feel it should also look at the physical activity in that school. Do they take the kids away? They build that resilience, that ability to go away from the parents, spend the night away perhaps on the campus, perhaps looking at up at stars or making a marshmallow. Many of you, perhaps because you come like me from an older generation, will have done these things and they will help build that fabulous t-shirt that says a broken arm and a broken spirit. And our idea is that being adventurous at a young age builds that fantastic resilience. I'll finish because it's an area of passion for me. But when someone is playing it to show that the longer you delay, children have those small mini-adventures and taking control of their own risk, perhaps having to go in a canoe or a camp or a walk, then then the more likely they are at a later age to make some catastrophic errors when they finally as a teenager, released into the great outdoors. So and by the grace that goes there, I mean, perhaps experiencing new relationships or new jobs or cities, they need to build risk and an early safe way. And that's what outdoor recreation can do. So it's absolutely vital we got the tools we can deliver it supported. So making that important. And I'll talk to your staff when we've got a bit more time on the actual delivery side of that.

Sarah Mitchell [00:04:13] Yes, so to speak, specifically to cycling and younger people, I think when you look at the Netherlands, you can see that about two thirds of primary school children is actually cycling to school. And here in the U.K., it's it's really a very a relatively small number. And I think only between one to three percent of primary and secondary school children actually cycled to school. So I was one of those children. I did cycle proficiency when I was at school. I think if we were to talk to our colleagues in bike ability who now run cycle proficiency across the UK, they would probably say that the number of people cycling to school and kids that are able to cycle really reflects their economic background and reflects levels of inequality in the country. I think one thing that we could do that would be really fantastic would be to enable that vision and gear change to become true, which is this idea that cycle training is available to every adult and child. And starting with children is a brilliant way to do that because I think by inspiring children and enabling children at the age to get on their bikes, you then enable them to be able to keep cycling and keep active in a way that's really practical and can be integrated into their lives very easily for the rest of their lives. And I think enabling schools and encouraging schools to have time on the curriculum through the Department for Education for cycle training in the way that I did when I was at junior school, I think would be an incredibly powerful and effective way to do that.

Gemma Cantelo [00:05:40] So we wish with everything that Andrew and Sarah raised a couple of additional points, so as with cycling, we think normalizing walking is important for school-age children, too. So promoting things like school streets and encouraging children and their parents to walk to school and make that a part of their daily lives and daily activity. And similarly, with nature, I think creating spaces that are filled with nature close to where people live and improving the links to what we sometimes call accessible countryside, help to give people the confidence as they go into adulthood to continue to access those outdoor spaces.

[00:06:16] And we know that confidence is one of the major barriers to people who haven't experienced access to nature in charge of getting outdoors and enjoying the outdoors as adults as well. And then finally, also the importance of focusing on that transition between childhood and adulthood. So young people aged between 16 and 25, which will age groups that we're targeting in Scotland at the moment and providing them with a peer group who they can go out with, who they can build their confidence with so that they're able to get outside now where they can go and also help people to play with.

Baroness Blower [00:06:58] I think this is probably to Andrew, I absolutely wouldn't want to wish more types of inspections or settle to schools, but it does seem to me that one of the things that it might be possible to do would be to emulate what I know for certain happens in Scandinavia, which is that lots of learning takes place outside of classrooms. And it's not, if you like, couched as outdoor activity. It's just learning that you're doing outside rather than indoors. Is there anything you'd like to say that kind of speaks to that?

Andrew Denton [00:07:35] Yes. Thank you, Baroness Blower. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, particularly the Forest Schools program, which some of you may have heard of, either a full accreditation as a forest school or just simply providing for a school days. And at the moment, we've got some work going through both in Ofcom and in the UK, that we literally have these tens of thousands unemployed outdoor instructors at the moment who are going into school and just delivering smaller, better experiences on nature, experiences or outdoor experiences.

[00:08:05] And we all know absolutely there's plenty of research. I've got loads of it down here just to show peer review. Fantastic evidence that learning outdoors in a physical environment, green spaces, blue spaces while moving your body as well, for young people, it enhances the learning and the memory and bringing it through. And Scandinavia, we can look to it in many areas. But it's particularly, I think, that integration, once you begin to love it and learn about it, then climate change, as well as health at the moment, are the two biggest things that climate change and health. And this just uses them together. You learn to love it and you want to maintain it. And it's no surprise that what they learn in Scandinavia means it's one of the greatest and so sustainable countries in the world as well. So, yes, I couldn't agree more and would be delighted to help provide some background information that following this session later.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:08:57] Well, on and it's well, actually looking at Scandinavia next week. So that was sort of a good prelude. Could I bring in Baroness Morris?

Baroness Morris [00:09:09] I wanted to ask how you promote diversity and inclusion among your workforce volunteers and participants. I also wanted to ask, how confident are you about the statistics? Because it's on the data that we tend to develop policy or make judgments. And I realize how difficult it is to collect that data. What's a bureaucratic burden it can be? So in answering, perhaps you could just comment on that and say if you think there's a better way of us having the data or the intelligence about this area.

Sarah Mitchell [00:09:43] Yeah, sure, so shall I talk about participants' first and then I'll come back to us as an organization? So I guess from our point of view, we realize a number of years ago that cycling is predominantly male and white and it's great that all of those male whites so there are white men enjoy cycling. But what we would like to do and what we believe is a far greater number of people, a far greater range of people can really benefit from cycling, get a lot out of it. And indeed, if we look again at some of our neighbouring countries, they are much more diverse in terms of their cycling population, both around gender and age and ethnicity, as much more of a balance. So we believe it's possible. So really, a lot of our work over the last five years has been focused on and reaching out to different communities and supporting them to take up cycling.

So we have a huge program called the Big Bike Revival, which is about bringing old bikes back into use. So we worked with lots of cycling maintenance cycle training schemes, local bike recycling schemes across the whole of England to do that. And it's about simply fixing people's bikes. And that has helped us to work with lots of non-regular cyclists. Half of our participants were women, which is really unlike the usual cycling statistics, and 30 percent were from the most deprived parts of the country. So it's very different from the usual setup for cycling. We've got another project which is about new cyclers, which is called Cycle for Health, which is a kind of pilot social prescription service. So that's about working with referrers within primary care to get them to refer fairly inactive people who could really benefit from cycling, to take up cycling for the first time and giving them very kind of bespoke support around that. And then we've got to further projects in our community club. So we've got about 200 community cycling clubs across the whole of England and Scotland and there to help people who've just taken up cycling to sustain it. So it's not just a one off, get your bike out, run it for a couple of weeks, get a puncture and then stop. It's about sustaining that level of activity through community groups. And that's an incredible reach with both in terms of gender. So half of again, the participants were women, 53 percent in deprived neighbourhoods, which we thought was a fantastic outcome. Fifty six percent from BAME backgrounds, which again, is highly unusual in cycling. And I think throughout all of those three projects. To answer your question around data, our focus has been on a kind of behavioural science approach. So we've taken a very kind of thoughtful approach about what the barriers are, crafting our responses to particular communities and following through to see what the impact of those changes is. So we're I think we've massively increased and improved the quality of the data that we're able to collect. Now, it is onerous, but we feel that you have to have the data to be able to understand what works. So although there is an awful lot of collecting data and I'm sure it's probably quite annoying to our participants, we try to make it as fun as we can. So we've turned it into little fun questionnaires we've asked them to do while they're waiting for the bike to be fixed. So it's not something they have to go away and come back and do again. We've basically just tried lots of little tricks to get the data back as quickly as we can so that we know that we're with the data that we get that we give to offenders is reliable but also said we understand how effective our projects are and we can continuously improve them, which I think is which is essential. And just coming onto the point about us as an organization. So I'm the first female chief executive that Cycling UK has had in over 140 years. So that in itself, I think, marks a change for us as an organization. And we've just elected our first female Chair of our second female Chair trusties. But obviously we've now got a full, entirely female top team. It's like in the UK, which is a big change. We as an organization, I think as a result of Black Lives Matter last summer, did a really big process of internal reflection. We are undertaking a diversity and inclusion audit of the organization to better understand what our baseline is both within our staff and our trustees and our members. And we'll be publishing this year a kind of action plan attached to that, both what we'll do internally, but also what we'd like to do in partnership with others across the sector to help increase the diversity across the board. We're also focusing, in particular in the coming months on women in cycling, as you might expect from an all-female top team. And we've got a women's festival of cycling which will be going on for a whole month in the summer, where we will encourage people who aren't just members of Cycling UK, but women across the whole of the country to get involved in cycling for the first time.

Gemma Cantelo [00:14:40] I think like most organizations in the sector, we recognize that we need to go further and faster when it comes to diversity and inclusion like Cycling UK, we say in the process of setting up a program of work focused on equality, diversity and inclusion, which looks of people. So our staff at Lord and our volunteers to make sure that we're doing what we can in order to ensure that we're as inclusive as we can be. We've actually just put out adverts for new members of our board where we're particularly welcoming applications from people from LGBTQI, black, Asian and minority ethnic communities that we've got that live to experience at the top of the organization to help put program looks like in practice.

[00:15:29] We also recognize that there are some limits to the internal expertise that we have at the moment, so we are engaging with external specialists to help us with that.

[00:15:37] But we also are looking to amplify the voices and work with and support other organizations that are already doing this. So organizations like That Girl's Hike ... we've got a lot to learn from those organizations and in listening mode now as well as I to act and to do things that make us more diverse and inclusive in the long term. In terms of our advocacy work, we're increasingly talking about some of the barriers when it comes to walking and access to nature, so look around and inequalities in access to green space. Some of the barriers that exist to people accessing the countryside and making sure that when we're trying to influence government policy, those are things that we're championing of picking up.

[00:16:31] And then on a practical level, we run our wellbeing scheme, which is three hundred and sixty five schemes based across the country that's focused on people who have tended to be less physically active, encouraging them to give up their physical activity levels and maintain levels of physical activity. We've got good participation that from older people and from people with long term health conditions. And those schemes have been successful in enabling people to maintain physical activity levels. And we deliver those schemes by working in partnership with local authorities and with local community groups. We want to strengthen that engagement, particularly with local community leaders, to ensure that we're listening to the needs of local communities rather than forcing a top down model for them. I'm pleased to see that reflected in the Sport England strategy when it came out yesterday as well.

Andrew Denton [00:17:33] I'll keep this one brief. Obviously, it's a vital area in diversity and inclusion and one we are working on an organizational perspective because we're business-to-business some of our members are incredibly diverse and inclusive. And I've got some fantastic, exciting programs. So JD Sports, North Face, Adidas. Indoor climbing walls, interestingly, have got a very, very representative, so fairly balanced gender wise, a good representative of the BAME community, good access to disabled climbing rates across the board. But on the other hand, outdoor climbing in national parks is appalling and very sad about my own style. So I believe 17 percent of the population approximately is from a background and only one percent population visit national parks. So in some of our areas, we're doing really, really well. In other areas, it is catastrophic. I think part of the solution is also clarifying the definition. And historically outdoor recreation has been I don't need stereotypes because I'm not stereotyping about a bubble in the Lake District, striding up the mountain sort of thing, pulling small children who are complaining and soaking wet behind you. And that may not be the only way of experiencing, not the recreation. So there's a lot more urban adventure, indoor climbing. Those are great examples, indoor skiing centres, BMX tracks and urban adventure. So, of course, there are all sorts of other races, mountain biking as well as road biking. And so for us as a sector to reach out inclusively rather than just the yell, you should enjoy what we're doing. It's a question of asking the diverse community, what do you enjoy doing and how can one define that? Is not prevention some way. And so to finish there, we have just literally three days ago put twenty thousand pounds into a project with Leeds University. And that's the selection of people not to train in British Mountaineering, National Trust, the association. But most of all, pull that money and ask British comedy to do I need you to do this research to get that baseline. We'll be working with Sport England you can and others to ensure that there's a desperate search as well as opposed to growth so we can move forward in that area. So we're certainly investing it. We as an organization, our AGM next year actually is focused in on diversity, inclusion, and we've got a number of the key drivers coming to talk to us and see what more we can do. They're very aware of it, very much need to do it. Some areas we're doing a fantastic job. Other areas, long way to go.

Lord Knight of Weymouth [00:20:29] When we publish our final report later this year, we will have to be disciplined in the number of recommendations that we make if we're going to be listened to. And in a similar vein, we're interested if you're only allowed one recommendation each and you have collaborated, so I'm sure there'll be three different ones. You're allowed one recommendation each for us to make the government. What would it be?

Sarah Mitchell [00:20:56] And so I think it would be a point of uncrossed departmentally collaboration, so an ownership and ownership for cross-departmental collaboration, so something in the plan needs to have a central owner that will chase and make sure that all of the recommendations that cross into different departments are fulfilled. So. However, you won't do that a person, a set of targets, that would be my wish to add to your list.

Andrew Denton [00:21:23] Yeah, absolutely right. We did collaborate, I think, as a summary, perhaps we fail or I felt that physical activity, it's historically been used as games or sport as a DCMS thing. And it's just not. That funding is great, but it's tiny. The biggest crisis is facing at the moment a climate change and health. And we're in the middle of a pandemic, very aware that our country was less active and more base than almost any other country in Europe. And look at our numbers. It's spending a billion pounds on sport and then 400 billion in one year to fix. The problem is disproportionate. So to have sports and physical activity and I'm trying to convert to some degree, but probably all of you to have it at the absolute core of everything we do is utterly vital. So from our perspective and outdoor recreation czar, somebody to help pull that together. But when I did that work with David Cameron, we managed to get Jane Ellison, Helen Grant, Tracey Crouch, four or five ministers from multi departments having a physical activity at the recreation. We brought DEFRA, we had Natural England talking to Sport England with Public Health England. We really started well. And then there was an election. The whole thing fell apart and suddenly no one cares. So drive in that cross department work and get some sort of central outdoor recreation zone strategy and put it right at the heart of the recovery, because without a healthy nation, you'll never have a healthy economy. And we go nowhere fast.

Gemma Cantelo [00:23:04] The big thing for me is place and delivering places that enable us to live active lives, and that has to take advantage of the fantastic assets that we've already got four miles away, whether that's part of whether that's our streets and neighbourhoods that focused on place across all levels of government.