Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to
facilitate access to Child Trust Funds by children with learning
disabilities.
(Con)
My Lords, children with learning disabilities might not have the
mental capacity to manage their finances and might need someone
to do this on their behalf. Parents need legal authority to
access funds on their adult children’s behalf and might need to
apply to the Court of Protection. This is an important protection
set out in the Mental Capacity Act 2005, and the Government are
taking steps to improve the support available to parents in this
position.
(Con)
My Lords, last March the Telegraph drew attention to the problems
facing 150,000 children with child trust funds who cannot access
their cash when they are 18 because of their disability and whose
parents have to go to the Court of Protection—a cumbersome and
time-consuming process involving 47 forms and 100 questions. Will
the working group that was announced yesterday by the Minister
look at the alternative system of appointees used by the
Department for Work and Pensions to pay exactly the same group of
children, which is far quicker, simpler and cheaper?
(Con)
The noble Lord makes a very interesting point. I know that the
Ministry of Justice is looking at and working on this. I have
just heard that the DWP is, in fact, joining the working group,
but the DWP appointees procedure does not extend to property and
assets of the individual. It deals solely with government
benefits. Extending the appointees scheme to include child trust
funds would not be appropriate as it is at the moment, as it
would not provide the protections currently delivered by the
Mental Capacity Act.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that some children with
learning disabilities who want to access trust funds might have
life-limiting conditions? There might not be much time available
for legal processes to be gone through. Can she assure the House
that, if such situations have not already been considered, they
will be given the attention that they deserve?
(Con)
They are absolutely being given the attention they deserve, but
there are already procedures in place such that, if a young
person has a life-limiting condition, that issue can be dealt
with almost immediately by the courts.
(Con)
[V]
My Lords, my noble friend has
identified what is actually a larger problem. I took all stages
of the Mental Capacity Act through another place and also did the
post-legislative scrutiny in our House. I say to my noble
friend—and I declare an interest—that for parents of both
children with learning disabilities and many on the autism
spectrum, resort purely to the Court of Protection or to
expensive legal trusts is really no help to parents of limited
means who try to provide for their children throughout their
lifetime. I hope that my noble friend will consider what more is
needed to look at the situation we now have, particularly with
more people living independently.
(Con)
I thank my noble friend; she is absolutely right. That is why the
Government made the announcement yesterday that we want to reduce
the obstacles to supporting young people who lack mental
capacity. There are other things that can be done instead of the
Court of Protection: if the young person has the mental capacity
to have an involvement, then there is, of course, the much
cheaper and easier way of lasting powers of attorney.
(CB)
[V]
My Lords, on this International Day of People with Disabilities,
it is particularly important that registered contacts and carers
are helped to access child trust funds to meet the increasing
needs of children with disabilities turning 18. Does the Minister
agree that, while speedier permission from the Court of
Protection is desirable, it is also in the interests of the child
to ensure that enduring powers of attorney are still sufficient
and fit for purpose to prevent possible misuse of funds?
(Con)
I agree with the noble Lord. This is a balance. It is important
to make sure that those young people who do not have the mental
capacity to access their funds get them easily, quickly and
without cost, and that is what the Government are looking at.
However, there are other ways, as the noble Lord says, such as
lasting powers of attorney, where the young person can have an
involvement in what happens to their finances.
(Lab)
I had the privilege 20 years ago of initiating the research on,
and then working with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to set up,
the child trust fund. We never envisaged at that time that this
situation would arise. I want to reinforce the suggestions made
by the noble Lord, Lord Young—as usual, very sensible—about
trying to fast-track this and to ensure that the two big
providers that are trying to find a way through are supported and
enabled, rather than having obstacles put in their way.
(Con)
I absolutely agree, and, as I have said, we are trying, through a
working party, to find a way to reduce the obstacles that the
families are facing. There is also a fee remission, which ensures
that families who need to go to the Court of Protection to access
these funds will not suffer financially as a result. If they have
already paid any money, they can get that reimbursed. Now there
is the working group looking further at how we can improve the
process.
(LD)
My Lords, is this not something about which the House should once
again congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Young, on pointing out an
absurdity? Will the Government give us an undertaking that, if
they cannot find an ad hoc solution quickly, they will find that
little bit of parliamentary time that is needed to ensure that we
have a workable solution to this?
(Con)
I am not going to make a promise of extra time, but I can say
that the working group has now been put together involving the
MoJ, the Treasury, the DWP, the charities and the Court of
Protection to make sure that all the accessibility issues are
sorted out, that it is a much more streamlined process and that
it will not cost the parents any money.
(Con)
My Lords, I am delighted that the Government have established a
working party and congratulate them on the decision about the fee
remission. However, with the numbers involved here, there could
be 25,000 court cases a year on this issue over the next eight
years or so, with Covid delays and capacity issues at court.
Given that these parents are trusted by the Department for Work
and Pensions to manage their child’s benefits, would it not make
sense to ask the department to take seriously the suggestion of
my noble friend to use
an established procedure?
(Con)
We absolutely will and are looking at my noble friend Lord
Young’s ideas and, as I say, the DWP has just joined the working
party, which is starting straight away and will report back to
the Minister in early January. We are not stopping on that but
looking at the best way of dealing with these issues.
(Lab) [V]
My Lords, being disabled in Britain should not mean being a
second-class citizen, but that is how it must seem for children
with learning disabilities whose families face an expensive
battle to gain access to the child trust fund. Imagine the outcry
if big city investors, or perhaps pensioners, were denied access
to their own money. The Government would then be rushing to their
aid. The Prime Minister has pledged to level up. Will the
Minister tell him that these children can have access to their
money now? The message is simple: get this done.
(Con)
I am afraid, as I have said before, that we are doing everything
we possibly can. It is not costly any longer because the fee
remission will ensure that families can go to the Court of
Protection and not suffer financially. We will get it done but we
have to take into account the Mental Capacity Act 2005 and the
fact that these young people are at times vulnerable and need
protection through that Act.
(Con)
[V]
My Lords, more than 700,000 teenagers will be given the keys to
their child trust funds over the next 12 months. It was never
made clear to parents that disabled children will be unable to
access the funds at 18, due to their lack of mental capacity.
With an application to the Court of Protection on behalf of a
disabled child, they might be able to do that but there is no
surety that they could. Parents care greatly about their children
and this is a tragic situation. I was reassured by many of the
answers that the Minister has given and hope that everything will
work out, and access will be readily available.
(Con)
I can assure the noble Baroness that there is no way in which
those children will not get access eventually but it is about how
they get it.
