Lords Committee hears evidence on National Plan for Sport and Recreation

The House of Lords National Plan for Sport and Recreation Committee today heard evidence from:

The following is a partially corrected transcript using voice activation software which will therefore contain mistakes, for which we apologise. A correct transcript will be sent to you as soon as it available.

Ben Dean [00:00:24] Being the first witnesses to come today, I really want to thank you and all the committee members for having us today. I mean, there's a huge amount of experience on your board and fantastic and really welcome you looking at these issues. And delighted that Malcolm Graham Archer with me today. And I mean, we're clearly always looking at where we can improve in relation to sport and recreation. But I also think we do have a strong track record to tell them this. And I think your question about what's changed over the last five years touches on this. So at an elite level, we are truly world beating Team GB second at the 2016 Olympics and Paralympics. That's what makes us the first team to ever perform better.

After hosting the Games, we saw over 40 million attendances athlete domestic sport in 2019. And the Premier League is now firmly the most watched league in the world. And we have truly world class facilities, both the science of sport centers of excellence and stadiums around the country. And we have a fantastic track record on 50 major events and mean clearly many major events that are on this committee being part of including London 2012 and the 2015 Rugby World Cup. But we also have a wonderful pipeline, including the Rugby League World Cup in twenty twenty one Commonwealth Games in 2022 finals semifinal of the delayed euro is twenty twenty one and the women's euro is twenty twenty two, not to mention even bigger events coming down the track.

And at the grassroots level, what the last five years is all been about for us is that increasing activity, getting the population more active and that can be both active in sport, continues to be active in winter activities. And I think one of the things we particularly do much more sporting than one of our key bodies on over the last five years is looking at ways to really target activities in sport that people want to do, recognizing football, rugby, cricket is a wonderful sport and that we have a strong record on. But equally, there are people out there who don't want to do that, but we'll do it in the class or we'll go skateboarding or surfing. So what are the activities that we can get people interested in that keeps them active in terms of in terms of what else has changed over the last five years? I mean, the key thing has obviously, with this year being private, which has been hugely impactful, not just information, but clearly particularly on sport and grassroots sport and elite sport, I think what we've tried to do is make sure throughout this eight month period we are always looking at how sport and recreation can support the nation. We're very proud that in the first down exercise was allowed to continue in the park and in the countryside for people throughout that lockdown, not something that every other country did as we entered the new system. A

nd obviously, today's the first day out of lockdown. Again, we're really proud that sport is now possible. Again, Botein sport, indoor sport, but also gyms and all three tiers. And at the elite level, I think we also worked incredibly hard to make sure we could get all these sports back as quickly as possible. We have sport happening behind closed doors earlier than virtually every other country and worked very closely with the Sports Travel Safety Authority and UK sport to enable that to happen with unpiloted to enable fans to get back in sport. And as of today, we can get fans back into stadiums in tier 1 and and tier 2. So that is, you know, really good stuff. And we have a lot of financial support there as well, which I'm sure we'll get on to.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:03:56] In terms of elite sport, the UK is doing very well. England is doing very well indeed. But we're a little worried about the data at grassroots level about what is actually happening at grassroots level. And could you explain why there hasn't been the usual annual update and why the KPIs dashboard is no longer being published? Because that seems to suggest that we've lost a little bit of momentum here, or is that for other reasons?

Ben Dean [00:04:35] So I think what we have recognized is prove it has changed everything over the last eight months. So we still have the annual active life survey that sporting the money each year. So that will be published next year for I think it's January for children in April that is on track to be published annually, as they always do. What we've tried to do and again supporting them have been leading the way for our delivery partner is also to keep track of how is it impacting grassroots sports. And they have done an additional survey of entering ComRes, which has been doing weekly or monthly tracking of that. And that data has shown that there has been a decline of about somewhere between seven and 10. And since the beginning of time, you get to know about grassroots participation, so he's pretty recognized that grassroots participation has dropped off during. And part of that is because of lock down and the closing of facilities. And what we're really hoping to do now is as we come out of lockdown, really doing what we can to encourage people to be taking up an activity in court again, as soon as they're allowed to.

Lord Hayward [00:05:50] Thank you very much. Can I, first of all, declare my interest, which is given in the records as vice president of Kings Cross Steelers Rugby Club, and can I make the observation in relation to the last response that I will be with my rugby club on Saturday, seeing how the new processes work? Can I then indicate that possibly might be relevant to take Mark Davies is the first response to my question, which is how closely do you as departments cooperate and coordinate your work with each other and with public bodies to deliver policy objectives aimed at improving both physical and mental health and wellbeing?

Mark Davies [00:06:32] I'm happy to pick that up. Thank you for the question. So we cooperate very closely. We were bound to say that we but it is, in fact true that we do. I'm very pleased to be able to come here with colleagues from the CMC and their feet to talk to you today.

[00:06:50] We there are a number of ways in which we express this, but in particular we fund services. So we put an awful lot of money to, for example, the school sports premium where the Department of Health is a contributor to that every year that they're funding. We also fund school games organizers where we work with the CMC. But more broadly, we work collectively on all aspects of physical activity. It is absolutely the case that while we completely understand the relationship between physical activity and exercise and physical and mental health, in fact, if you don't mind, I will quote Chris withI from exactly a week ago at the UK summit where he said, Exercise is probably the single simplest and most important thing people can do to improve their physical and mental health. So from the very top of the medical profession, if you like, we have a complete understanding of the role of physical activity and we work closely together. Obviously, the Department of Health and Social Care is not the lead department, though like many departments, we will benefit from. Physical activity, however, encourages it or whoever leads on it.

[00:08:06] So we we express that interest through the way that we work very closely together. The childhood obesity work we do has elements of physical activity in it as well, so that we lead on childhood obesity. We work very closely with colleagues in Descombes and DFAT to ensure that our activities are coordinated. And though the purpose of physical activity in sport is not always to improve physical or mental health, it is always an outcome of that sort of activity. But mostly unless you clash heads on. A football pitch has happened to footballers this week, but the importance of increasing physical activity per se is completely understood and recognized by the department.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:09:01] Well, I said that this was a question which was really to Graham Archer. How would you cooperate and coordinate with local authorities and local delivery agencies such as active partnerships, the Youth Sports Trust and local sports clubs to ensure that national policy goals encompassing sport and recreation are being delivered locally?

Graham Archer [00:09:42] I think our starting point from a school's perspective is that schools themselves are the best place for taking a view about the right way to deliver P.E. and sports for their children. And but that's not the same as saying that we leave them to get on with it and think that's OK. And a number of the things that you've described, the the the partnerships, the Youth Sports Trust, are both delivery agents and bodies funded by us to provide advice and support for teachers and schools in delivering the PE and sports curriculum and the School Sport and Activity Action Plan that we published last year and describes a number of ways in which we look in partnership with those organizations to promote activity in general in schools, promote activity relating to particular groups within schools, and to support teachers and schools in the round to provide.

[00:11:05] Activity in the best possible way to meet the needs of their children. So essentially we use funding, we use relationships, we use those local join ups recognizing that this is a sort of multiagency operation with interest in schools interests, in sports clubs and organizations and indeed in the health world. So we use a variety of levers, but try insofar as we can to be supportive of those delivering on the front line rather than dictating to them just after what Grant said.

Ben Dean [00:11:43] I mean, I fully endorse what what he says. I think we absolutely recognize that to achieve our goals of getting the population more active, to relies on collaboration from a range of government departments are part of that.

[00:11:57] And that is why we are here today is working. But other government departments as well, such as the NASA community and the government department, clearly local authorities who have this picture, but they're also on some body. So I've already mentioned UK support and supporting England who are key to us. But we also have the Sports Ground Safety Authority and UK Anti-Doping part of our concern for the family and then clearly also have the national governing bodies of sports and sports and so on, a range of organizations. And without that close cooperation, we're not going to achieve as much as we could with cooperation. And that is why the tick up included. We've really tried to tighten our collaboration and our engagement with our key delivery partners.

[00:12:43] Thank you very much indeed. Could I move on to Brady Brady ?

Baroness Brady [00:12:50] I'd just like to declare the following interests. I'm the vice chairman of West Ham Football Club, director of W.H Holdings Ltd, where Secretariat and all the support is received from the staff employed by West Ham. I'm a trustee of the twinning project, the former managing director of Birmingham City Football Club. My husband is a retired professional football player and sports commentator. My question is, how are you incorporating sport and recreation in your efforts to tackle obesity and health inequalities? And I'd like to direct that question to Tomoki, so I'd like the other two witnesses to give their thoughts to. Thank you.

Mark Davies [00:13:27] Thank you, Baroness Brady. Well, I've already mentioned the fact that that exercise is is integral to the childhood obesity plans that we publish. Now, mostly that does except focus on food, because the key driver of of obesity is calorific intake. So that's been our focus. But alongside that, we also, as I've mentioned, encourage and fund sporting activity and sport in schools for children because we think that general fitness is also part of tackling obesity. The question of health inequalities, I think, is really important in and of itself. Changes to physical activity won't address, we're pretty sure won't address health inequalities. But what we see is that health inequalities are reflected in inequalities in access to and engagement with sport of physical activity. So we know, for example, that during covid the amount of children undertaking physical activity reduced for obvious reasons, the opportunity to reduce schools are closed. But we also know that children from particular communities, poorer communities and particular ethnic communities suffered worse.

[00:14:46] So we can see how, as one element of health inequalities, exercise is really an aspect of it. It won't resolve it on its own, but it's something that needs to be addressed because we need to ensure that everyone has access to to support and exercise.

[00:15:07] So but we don't we don't lead the policy on sport and physical activity. We are where we work closely with other departments, but the leads elsewhere.

[00:15:19] So we would encourage all activities to really target those where need is greatest, as we do with which we deal with health care as well, where need is greatest, we should be targeting our activity. And I think that's something that we do need to look at between us to understand what's happened with covid, which shone a light on inequalities across society and with working to address now and inequalities in access to engagement with physical activity is is one of those programs. Would you like to add something?

Graham Archer [00:15:53] Absolutely, I mean, those inequalities begin in school, and we know that black and Asian children, children from the least affluent backgrounds and girls as opposed to boys, are less likely to be active in and in school. Our objectives in the action plan that I described earlier include the idea that children should have at least 60 minutes of physical activity a day, 30 minutes in the curriculum and 30 minutes outside.

[00:16:33] And we found a range of things which help to tackle those inequalities, whether they be volunteering programs, encouraging those from less affluent backgrounds to be engaged in school sport, whether they are about work, specifically to encourage those girls who have disengaged from P.E. and sports to regain that interest or whether they are about through our inclusion in 2020 grants, looking to those with special educational needs and disabilities, to another group who struggle sometimes to engage with sport and physical activity to engage. So we very much recognize the issue and have embedded in a lot of the action in our action plan work to engage those who are most likely to be disengaged and therefore most likely to see those health inequalities and perpetuating or indeed growing.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:17:36] And Ben, do you think that your program fits into that agenda too.

Ben Dean [00:17:41] I mean, this is absolutely something we have to collaborate across government on. I mean, the prime minister has been very clear from the top down how important tackling this is. And I think he has said all departments that he expects them to be contributing.

[00:17:54] So clearly, all three departments are major components of that. But as I said earlier, we also recognize local authorities and government has a role there, but also other departments. I mean, a good example is the Department of Transport have been doing a lot of work cycling and encouraging people to walk and cycle to school, go to work or to get around. So I'm interested in working closely with sportingly. And what we've been wanting to see is making sure people have the access to the facilities that they need, giving people more options. So for those who don't want to do traditional sports, as I said earlier, they can try and find something that suits them and that may be maybe an exercise class. It may be something could be anything that meets their needs. And this game has been trying to do some Commonwealth campaign as well so that this girl can campaign. I think it's a really good example of that, where we've been trying to encourage girls in particular to get active and get more involved in sport and overcome some of the hurdles that they have face.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [00:18:59] OK. Thank you, Karen. Did you want to come back on that?

Baroness Brady [00:19:03] Well, I just really wanted to say I was disappointed that the 10 year review of the report notes that the national government has not prioritized health inequalities and that a third of children are currently overweight or obese. So I wonder if any of the programs you're working on actually working.

Mark Davies [00:19:28] May I, but so I completely recognize that I speak as a person who ten years ago, commissioned Michael Marmot's original report. So I'm very familiar with the work and it is it is challenging. The question of childhood obesity increasing is, is it seems to be a consequence of what happens to other aspects of their lives. And you will see that publication in July about childhood obesity talked very much about making the healthy choice, the easier choice for families. You'll notice, I hope, that we've that two weekends ago, the prime minister announced an increase to the healthy start voucher scheme, which is which hasn't happened for a decade. And that is absolutely directed at giving poorer families access to healthier food. And that and that was partly through through the campaign by Marcus Rashford. But also it's it's a pretty positive relationship between sport and food, if you like, and shows the influence of people like Marcus Rashford could have. So we are. We are I mean, we're struggling against the tide of promotion of food, which is unhealthy to try and turn that around. And that's part of the challenge of the childhood obesity strategy as well. Just on inequalities as well, if I may say I, I and I'm sorry, this is rather flattering. You're the team of a director, Baroness Brady. But West Ham United and Newham Council have done a fantastic piece of work about giving access to activities through the charitable through charitable organizations, which I would commend. It's absolutely excellent. It engages different communities, different groups from different backgrounds, works with the organizations that they feel comfortable with and has had a fantastic effect on on health inequalities because it's reduced its reduced average blood pressure levels among communities that have struggled with this for a long time. And that's a really great example of how locally the local health system and local significant sporting organizations can make a difference. So sorry I didn't do that just to flatter Baroness Brady, but it is something that's worth noting.

Baroness Brady [00:21:46] It's I should probably point out that lots of football clubs have fantastic foundations, are doing excellent work with their local communities, are particular. One was to drive down diabetes with new, which is something we're very proud of. So thank you for recognizing.

Lord Krebs [00:22:12] I think this is really for Mark. We know that Public Health England has now been abolished or is has been broken up and one of their responsibilities has been work on promoting physical activity and healthy living. So I wonder if you could tell us a bit about what the plans are to replace public health, England's role in this, how it's going to be organized, who it's going to be accountable to. And perhaps while you're talking about that, this second part of my question goes back a little bit into earlier questions, but it's about the joining up of different departments and different community activities. And I noticed in the background reading we were given that there have been no fewer than six strategy documents published by different bits of government or government agencies in the last few years on increasing physical activity and sport. And that makes me wonder whether actually people are just playing their own furrow. And can you explain why that had to be six different documents rather than one strategy?

Mark Davies [00:23:22] So thank you. Yes, you're right, we announced in August that the establishment of the National Institute of Health Protection, which will be created out of the health protection elements of public health England and the test and trace capability that will be building in the department as part of covid and the National Biosecurity Center, so that that work is in hand and that organization will come into existence. We plan at the start of the next financial year. So the first of April, the health improvement functions of public health England are continuing public health and will continue to exist. And what I can't do is to tell you what the replacement will be because that work is ongoing. There's an awful lot of consultation and engagement going on with, well, many, many interested parties. We've been very open about engaging on that. What we what we're aiming to do. This isn't the first time. This isn't a cost cutting measure. This is about trying to ensure that we have the best measures for health protection and alongside that, the best measures for health improvement. And we are determined that what comes out of the other side of the process of engagement and organizational design will be learned. The lessons of from the establishment of public health England. And we'll build upon all the all the good work that it's done. It's so at the moment that we don't know what those organizational forms will be. We're engaging with, as I say, many, many external stakeholders who are offering us their views. We plan to go out to with a written proposition in early in the new year. And that would be a not a formal consultation, but it would be a summary of what we've heard and what we plan to do. And we will make sure that we give ourselves time to establish the new arrangements. It won't just be over the cliff and public health thing that each part it will be. We'll have a safe home to go to. So I'm sorry, that's not a very clear answer. I can't give you the say the the absolute answer as to what the organization will be or how how many organizations will be or where functions will say that that work is a work in progress at the moment.

Ben Dean [00:25:47] From the time I pick up the strategy question as well, which I'm answering. So I apologize. I don't know exactly which documents you're referring to, but I think from our perspective, what we've tried to do in 2015, we published 14 features, which was, of course, government. But this that was our overarching strategy for how we wanted to approach food and recreation, including increasing wellbeing, mental wellbeing, et cetera. That still guides us through clearly on. We're now looking at how we make a fresh start. But there have been other strategies where needed. And a good example of that was the obesity strategy that has previously been touched. And I think the reason we have a separate strategy there is, as Mark said, both is part of the answer. And clearly it is much wider than just activity. And that's why that's just your laptop and labeling and junk food and things like that. Another good example is the School Sports Action Plan, which is that mentioned in sport and teachers. But again, that that's followed on from overarching strategy to go into detail about how schools play their part in the overarching strategy.

Lord Knight [00:27:09] Just I guess I should do my declaration of interest because I'm about to speak, so I am I have until the end of August being the chief education and external officer at Times Global, where I was also a shareholder. I'm now director of Sickler, which is an education consultancy which has global is a client. I'm a director of Whole Education Ltd and trustee on the subject of charity. And my brother in law, Koans Azalea Limited, which is a sports marketing company. My supplementary question was to Ben Dean, I think, which is to say, looking at the data, it looks as if this sort of physical activity and of the remet isn't really shifting in terms of takeup. Is that because sport, England and across government working isn't is failing or is that because of something else? Is it perhaps that you're too spooled and there's not enough about the recreational end of what we're interested in on this committee?

Ben Dean [00:28:21] So I think one of the things I definitely agree with you on is what we've been trying to do is recognize that sport is a major factor, but not the only one that your point about recreation. We absolutely said that we want people to be active in whatever form that takes. And if that is killer walking or that is starting to work, that is and that's not what we absolutely encourage that to keep people active. So we know 63 percent of the general population before was meeting our target of one hundred and fifty minutes of activity a week. Clearly, that still means that there is just one, the 40 percent of the population who won't achieve it. So, again, we've been working with supporting the numbers on it. What more can we do to reach those communities who are not yet reaching? And some of that is very targeted. I mean, there was a great example I was giving back with a Muslim Girls Fitness, which is a great way of getting to a community they've never worked with before to address stuff. And actually, one of the things we're particularly seeing now is one of the fastest areas of growth in grassroots supporters is women, women's sports and all the national governing bodies that I talk to recognize. That is where a lot of that from the grassroots come from and women's football, women's rugby there. Many great examples of us seeing really good expansion of that. So I think we have a good story to tell. But I fully recognize, particularly in these type of times, we're going to have to work incredibly hard over the next year to get people to stop being active, reactive and to maintain those levels.

Baroness Morris [00:30:15] You thank you very much to my interest. I'm chair of the Education Partnership and I act as an adviser to then chair of the trustees of the Institute for Effective Education and advise them both funded by the Burton Charitable Trust. I'm a trustee and vice chair of the Student Association Football Club Foundation. My question is to Mr. Archer, I think to begin with, and that's what progress has been made in implementing the actions and commitments set out in the 2019 School Sport and Activity Action Plan.

Graham Archer [00:31:02] Let's start with the three ambitions in that plan, the desire to have 60 minutes of activity at the plant to enable a development, developmental character, building experiences and in school play and sport, and to develop physical literacy. And a series of actions flow from those. And it would be right to say that while progress has been made on some of them, the pandemic has affected the way in which some of those have been delivered.

[00:31:47] So progress that we can point to includes and providing funding to boost the volunteer coaches and leaders program with a view to recruiting young people from lower socio economic groups working on and creating.

[00:32:13] New digital platforms designed to reach girls who disengaged with the studio you work, as it's known, we have developed a number of means of both focusing on initial teacher training and on CPD and whole school approaches to enable teachers to become stronger individually and collectively in how they design and deliver the work. We have begun to fund or have funded and be active partnerships to work directly with local support providers and schools to increase access to school sport facilities. And I think we have not done as much as we would have liked to be candid on the creation of regional pilots to try new and innovative approaches. And though we have pivoted activity to provide support for schools in particular to provide strong and where possible extra curricular activity through the covid pandemic, and we'll be looking as we emerge, we hope, from the pandemic.

[00:33:41] And as the implications of the spending review announced last month to be thinking really actively about recovery from the pandemic and returning in the way that Ben Dean described to get a focus on schools and beyond in how we engage and drive activity. There is no doubt that among children at school as well as wider adults, the pandemic period has been one in which and physical activity has declined. So we will certainly need to be looking at how we increase and sharpen our communications in order to re-engage and support schools and other local organizations.

Baroness Morris [00:34:46] Yes. I mean, all that sounds great. And when you read that into the document, it sounds really ambitious. And I realize that this has not been the best year for you to start some of some of those initiatives. I take that, but I think the worry goes a bit beyond that. And that I end up feeling if you were really able to put all that into action, would probably solve the problem. But I wonder what your expectations are of that actually happening. If you think of something like the phonics program or the math mastery program, you actually realize what it takes for a school system to bring about really significant change when there's just no parallels there between the money and the resources and the focus put in to the math, mastering the phonics and the sport. So I think the question is, this is part of the problem that you've got. You're trying to launch a lot of initiatives and then glue them together, whereas in schools the basics aren't in place. So one might ask, if you look at the primary schools, are you confident that you've got it in every primary school, at least one or two teachers who've got the skills to teach P.E. and the enthusiasm to do so?

[00:35:58] Because we've not I can just see all these other initiatives doing what's happened for many decades. They won't come to anything briefly.

Graham Archer [00:36:07] And so I think there is increasing engagement and commitment right across government to make this work. So I think ambition is not the issue. I think speaking to Baroness Morris's last question about can you be confident that there's a teacher in every primary school who knows what they're doing and could drive this? The answer, of course, is, is no. There is more variability than we would like to see. And we really want to use the primary P.E. and sports premium to focus in on how we can get and, you know, those schools who are really strong that best to help and support others and to drive greater activity in that space. So absolutely, it's a work in progress. I don't think there's a limit of ambition, but we absolutely need to kind of focus and sharpen the resources. We've got to make the biggest difference we can.

Baroness Blower [00:37:13] My interests are as recorded, are as follows, I'm the vice president of Show Racism, the Red Card and education charity, working with current and retired football players. And we have a very good project at West Ham. I'm pleased to say, Bernice Brady, I also have a son in law who is a who is the assistant head in a large secondary school. And one of his responsibilities is P e. And he is also active in a local football team as both a player and an administrator. Pittsburgh, a dynamo. So my question is to Graham Archer. Thank you very much. It's it follows on very well from baroness Morris's question, the original question was what assessment has been made of the sport premium and whether it has been money well spent, but I might perhaps just say to you, Graham, that an APPG on fit and healthy childhood in 2019 reported there had been little critical appraisal of this funding and it identified an increasing tendency for school to use their funding to employ sports coaches and deliver the curriculum. And the APPG recommended changing the name of it to the primary physical education and Physical Activity Grant to help liberate her teachers from the mistaken mindset that resources can only be used on PE or sports lessons, so I'd be pleased to have your observations on that.

Graham Archer [00:39:02] We are absolutely clear that the PE and sports premium should not be used for topping up or substituting for basic delivery of the curriculum. We are clear that we want that premium to be used and to deliver a premium and to use a sort of trite way of describing it. So it is about extending the work that goes on in the core curriculum to enable children to engage in more activities, to focus sharply on inclusion in those activities, to extend the range of games and sports which are delivered. So we see the way in which Ofsted inspectors pay and thinks about sports is part of the need to a school to deliver a healthy life experience for children as being an important part of accountability.

[00:40:11] In this space, we see the work that is being done by the active youth partnerships has being a really important part of thinking about how schools can extend and deliver more so and the circumstances that Baroness Blair describes, the ones that feel to me to be not the most appropriate use of that premium. And we would very much want to see it used in a way which is more extensive. And the work of the APPG and other and others who have looked at this work is is very much part of the way in which we continue to refine and develop and think about how we deliver that that program.

Baroness Sater [00:41:07] Thank you, Chair. I'd like to just declare my interest as chairman and trustee of the Queen's Club Foundation, a member of the National Taskforce to address the future of physical education with the Association of Physical Education and Patron of Street Games. I'm Vice Chair Sport APPG and formerly I was Vice Chair and trustee of the Queen's Club, the club and also former chair and trustee of Street Games. Could I ask I like to direct it quickly if I can chat to all three panelists and perhaps hearing from Ben first. And we touched a little bit. You have touched a little bit on this question. But what are what are we what are you doing to encourage adults of all ages and abilities, particularly those from underrepresented groups, including women and girls, ethnic minorities, disabled people, other people, and those from less affluent backgrounds to become more active both in school settings and in the wider community? And perhaps just drilling down slightly on what tools, levers do you think you're lacking to increase the progress and pace of change?

Ben Dean [00:42:22] We fully recognize that part of our job is to try and get people who are not traditionally active. One way of doing that is to find new ways to encourage them to do things. And if you are a keen walker, to your question about different segmentations, one thing we have found is if you encourage older people to become part of organized walking groups, that can be a really good gateway into walking school. So many more old people in the population now doing walking football, walking netball. And it's fantastic both for the physical work out there yet, but actually their mental wellbeing as well. And the social network, it gets done so through sporting. Then again, our key delivery partner here, that is certainly one things that they have been looking at and likewise with the black and ethnic minority groups, they fully recognize that in parts of the population we are not getting the same activity levels as we would like. So again, what are the targeted interventions that they may need? And some of those can be called campaign work. So that district can campaign is a really good example of that. There's no say the We Are Undefeatable, which is a campaign working with the support group and several people looking at how they can get active. So there's some campaigning work. But then clearly you need to also make sure you've got the infrastructure and the facilities out there for for people to do the activities they want. And again, part of our story has been about making sure we look across the country that those facilities are in. Clearly a lot, but undoubtedly there is more to do and we continue to work on the.

Mark Davies [00:44:09] I think it's a real challenge for us to make sure that we, as we talked about earlier, think about how small can help address health inequalities and the disparities within different communities. There's a couple of things that I would want to point to, really. One of them is, as we all know, over the summer we launched some communications around called Better Health, which is linked to covid, but was actually very much targeted at people of from all backgrounds via the TV adverts about getting active were all about activity, not sports. So we weren't trying to encourage people to do elite sports or help asking them to get active. And you're seeing the diverse range of people, sizes, colors, shapes that were on the adverts and that seems to have had some impact. People recognize themselves in there and those adverts and have started to take action. We do. I mentioned social prescribing and we do do quite we're encouraging through the NHS, which I think this program, social prescribing, which tends to target the most disadvantaged people, the people with the greatest health problems, so that that is part of the armory. There isn't a single solution to this, obviously. The other the other thing that I would point to is some work that we're doing. The chief medical officers have issued guidelines on physical activity. The four chief medical officers of the four UK nations updated them last year. And we are we have a program to help health care professionals understand those guidelines, because quite a lot of the impact will be through professionals talking, trusted professionals talking about physical activity. And one of the things we want to do is to encourage health care professionals to actually talk to people about weight and health and activity in the in the round as part of their general overall health. I think that's a challenge because often primary care professionals have not wanted to talk about health, about weight.

[00:46:14] It's not one of the things that they feel comfortable talking about, trying to move that on so that people can can can discuss it and have a conversation with their health care professional, where also we announced in the summer alongside the campaign, I've talked about the fact that we're going to be looking at increasing the amount of weight management services available and we will be wanting to target those that the most disadvantaged groups of people who otherwise wouldn't or are likely to attend services and who intend to be. I mean, we tend to know that that physical activity is on a section as a social gradient. So targeting those resources and weight management at people at the most disadvantaged communities in the poorest areas will be part of how we address health inequalities and some of that out.

Lord Hayward [00:47:28] There's lots of concentration on many fields, but covid has been absolutely brutal in relation to mental health and society. And I just wondered whether the different departments are working together to develop a program to ease mental health as it relates to physical activity and sport as we come out of the covid crisis.

Mark Davies [00:47:58] We recognize the impact of mental health. Not only has it broadened the number of people who might be it might be susceptible to mental health problems, but those with preexisting problems probably have had them made worse. So it's a significant issue. The link to physical activity, I think is well known and well evidence. Public Health England Program on Every Mind Matters talks about the ways to work five ways to well-being of which physical activity is one of those. We've also I mean, this is slightly at the more clinical end of things that we have. There is an additional money which is an out to the NHS a couple of weeks ago before the spending review includes a significant additional resource for mental health services. So there's a recognition that the demand will have increased and we will be publishing, I believe, a mental health strategy very soon, which will set out our response to to the challenges of covid. There is no doubt that physical activity and maintaining physical activity has a significant impact on protective impact on people's mental wellbeing. And I think that's something that we recognize whether we do enough.

[00:49:22] I think that's something you might want to take a judgment on to return to this question and ask Ben if he would just like to respond to that question of diversity and inclusion.

Graham Archer [00:49:44] Let me let me just before I do that and follow up Mark's answer on mental health, because colleagues in the department are, of course, closely engaged with their DHC colleagues on thinking about the impact for young children and young people of covid in the mental health concepts. We've been stood up really quite quickly, a program which is around how we can support children's mental health as they return to school. We all thinking, too, about how we need to pivot or and recast the way in which the broader range of services for children and young people, both in schools and in the sort of as we age towards the specialist end of things on in the mental health sphere, work together and focus on coping outcomes. And through all of that and the impact of physical health on on mental health and physical activity on mental health. This is a really important element of that.

[00:50:55] And let me then just come back to Baroness Sater's question, if I may.

[00:51:01] So and one of the things that is really helpful in this space is that we have a good deal of data about how different groups of young people engage in sport to the Active Lives Children Survey and through reports from people like the Disability Charity, Charity Activity Alliance. And we use those to shape our activity a bit. So examples would include the inclusion of 20-20 grams, 300000 a year paid to the youth sports trustor to a useful facility and consortium which looks to work with members of the school workforce, which looks to to use young leaders to to engage children and young people with special educational needs or disabilities to be physically active and physically active.

Graham Archer [00:52:07] We published a new e-learning resource, particularly focused on autism and how autistic children and young people engage with sport more broadly. And we have a volunteer leaders and coaches program delivered by [00:52:23]Sport England, [0.4s] which aims in particular to get young people from lower socio economic backgrounds to engage and, for example, to help deliver the school games. We expect, as I think I may already have said, the primary PE and sports premium to be used to drive inclusion. And we have a range of programs aimed at increasing participation of girls. For example, the Girls Active Youth Sports Trust and [00:52:56]Sport England [0.0s] program and a new set of video resources helping to engage schools in PE called Studio You, which is another [00:53:04]Sport England [0.0s] program.

Lord Knight [00:53:22] Keep some of the low activity we've been talking about among underrepresented groups may be if they have experienced some form of discrimination, particularly Japan, how are you tackling racism, homophobia, misogyny and transphobia in sport at all levels?

Ben Dean [00:53:43] And so we absolutely recognize that we don't have any racial, homophobic or transphobic behavior sports. Clearly, again, this is one of the areas where government is part of the story, but it means collaboration across a lot of different people. So certainly what we see is when when it comes to what happens on terraces, for example, then clearly the FA and football bodies have a huge amount of work to do there. And they work very closely with the Home Office. And this is what on that and certainly the training that students now get on intervening, if they hear voices chanting and using the much more sensitive stuff now in football stadiums has been helpful to talk about. But I mean, clearly, there have been cases and what we want to see is what's been very clear about cracking down on it when there are individual cases of this happening, but also making sure that you create an environment for the support. And one of the things that football has done is trying to make the sport much more inclusive. And when you look at the Terrace's nowadays, in terms with comments coming up and far more mothers taking their kids, that does create better atmosphere. And you know, the support from her West Ham work a lot. It does strike a lot has been done. And certainly one of the things we continue to support it is this is a government leaders where there have also been stories of high profile sports people coming out to say that this is something that we've tried to welcome. And again, there has been lots of media picked up on that need to be more welcoming environment of the pitch in the locker room, which is what is on the pitch as well.

Lord Knight [00:55:47] In respect to governing bodies, is there anything do you have any leverage to for them to do better in terms of the diversity of membership, the governing bodies of sport and sporting groups?

Ben Dean [00:55:57] So, I mean, one of the things they absolutely believe in doing is making sure we talk to these bodies about the sector's opportunity. The Secretary of State only two weeks ago held a meeting with the key senior football partners as well as Kick it Out and some of those involved in tackling racism and homophobia to do precisely that and say we are still seeing too many problems. What are you doing? How are you? And certainly in our minds, this isn't a one off initiative that you're this is just bread and butter and it's part of your conversations at all, national governing boards and sports wherever possible.

Baroness Grey-Thomson [00:56:51] I'd like to start off by declaring my interest in politics. I'm going to read them with a little bit of pace behind them. Otherwise we will not get to my question. So I am sure of you, Captain Unaccept, director of the BBC board, member of London Legacy Development Corporation, educational TV work, the BBC, Sky and other channels on the 24th of July 2022 and took a speaking engagement for the IOC and IPC in partnership with Airbnb, a speaking engagement 9th October 2019 to accompany a visit to Berlin, Germany, 15th to the 18th of Fat 2020 to attend Laureus Sports Awards. I received a gift Montblanc medium suitcase in the Laureys bracelet, business class flights and accommodation costs for My Aunt Gaspé by the organizers. I'm an officer of the Adult Social Care APJ member of the Basketball APJ Member Box in APJ, Member of the Commonwealth Games, APJ Member of the Disability APJ Vice Chair of the Inclusive in Entrepreneurship KPG, Vice Chair of the Olympic and Paralympic APJ Vice Sport Advisory Board. Member of the Meechie Performance. Director of National Academies. Social Scribed Member of the Advisory Board of Akeda. Chancellor of the University of Northumbria Newcastle. Vice President of the Local Government Association. Ambassador Fields Trust's Associate Member of British Wheelchair Sports Foundation. Chair, formerly trustee of the Duke of Edinburgh Awards. Council member of the Winston Churchill Memorial Trust. President, Sports Leaders, UK President of Welsh Association for Cricketers with a Disability Charity, the Golden Foundation, Laureus Sport for Good Foundation Trustees for Sports Age, which might assist to note the January 2020 Trustees Stadium of Light Foundation, trustee of Wembley National Stadium Trust. Vice Chairman, Academy Member of Laureus Sports Academy. Vice President. And you must carry as a member of the IWG Secretariat and Conference Steering Group Ambassador Sport Relief Formal Cultural Party Commissioning Physical Activity 2013 14. Former Chair Jitka in Sport Review 2015 2017. Former Trustee of Jane Thomas and former trustee of Tony Blair Sport Foundation for Trustee of Tennis Foundation. Former Director of London Marathon Ltd Member Sports come for the Wales 94 to 02, including Lecumberri 96 to 2003, member of the English Sports Council Ultraworld Panel ninety five to ninety nine. Deputy Chair of the UK Lottery Awards. Panel Member, the UK Sports Council 28 member. The 2002 Monsta Commonwealth Games Organizing Council Member Northie Sports Bordo six to eight member. The European Paralympic Committee 05 to 09. Nonexempt Director UK Classics eight to 12. Women's Fitness Foundation Chair of the Commission on the Future Women's Sport eight 13 LOCOG Vice Chair the Athletes Panel 091 to under the Roles UK Sport Mission 2012 07 to 12 Pro Vice-Chancellor Staffordshire University until 2013. Former Mantar Women's Sports Trust Program 19 to 20. My husband currently has a contract with British Triathlon to deliver coaching on the pathway and my daughter is a member of Mr Cameron and was on the Talent Athlete Pathway program until December 2019. So thank you for your patience.

[00:59:49] And my question is to Ben Dean from DCMS and it's really around the duty of Care in Sport Review, and I'd be really interested to know what progress has been made to implement the recommendations of the review since it was published in 2017.

Ben Dean [01:00:23] The truth of the matter has been very hard for my team since Covid kicked off. We have had to prioritize and some of the resources we had that was due to the reprioritise to focus on Covid work. So one of the things we are looking to do now is that over the coming months as some of the paperwork and pressures that get released. This is one of the areas that my team will be looking back on getting to to assess if you want to look at how much progress has been made.

Lord Willis of Knaresborough [01:00:59] I've counted 49 different initiatives which between you have mentioned. Could I ask you who coordinates it all to make sure that across government we're actually getting a coordinated approach to what is one of the most important issues facing us as a society? And could you perhaps give us a starter on that? And if you could write to us, that would be really good to know. Where is the common ground here in terms of being able to sort that?

bnen [01:02:10] I'm happy to write to you with further the details. So I think the way we look at it is as a government, clearly we have a duty to work across government, the three of us and other departments as well. But there are lots of other delivery partners here. So good example, as I have mentioned, is when it comes to grassroots delivery [01:02:30]Sport England [0.0s] is our key arms-length body and they invest hundreds of millions a year in grassroots sport. So there are clearly lots of different initiatives. In my view, that is absolutely right, because we often need those different initiatives to target different parts of the population or that to be geographically that can be demographically. But clearly what we have to do to your point is make sure we are tracking that. Sport England are responsible for making sure grants deliver the results they want. But in government, we also keep an overarching view to make sure we are delivering. And a key element of that is the active life survey. Are all these different initiatives actually have the results that the public money and some lottery money going into them delivered as expected? Those survey results give us a very good way and the detailed knowledge of where we need to do more. Whether there was some initiatives not even as much as we want, and that can then get picked up in future funding rounds to decide whether having tried something important is just as we want it to be and we need to reprioritise that money elsewhere. We need to make sure we do have a good oversight across government of how that is done, delivering on the goals that government wants.

Lord Moynihan [01:04:25] I think we have, in which case it might be helpful if I just take this opportunity. Well, first of all, I. So that might take 30 seconds for many speeches for him warmly declaring my interests. I'm on the advisory board member of Sports Club Education Limited Trading, as in sport, education, planning, small business, education courses member, the International Olympic Committee, IOC, Public Affairs and Social Development Sport Commission, senior adviser and in Sport Intelligence Applications, Life Member. British Rowing. President Bush Watsky. President Bush Doing Association Taking Disability Sport. UK Sport Vice Chair Boxing. It could be cheap. Member Commonwealth Games Basketball Coach at Olympic and Paralympic Games. ATP Vice Chair Sport Activity Sport. Modern Slavery and Human Rights. A former members of the Community Sports for 2013. Former Minister of Sport 1987. 90 Former Champions Association twenty five twelve. Former Member of the London Olympic Board. Twenty twelve former member Olympic Board and former Director of the London Organizing Committee. The Olympic Games. Two thousand plus twelve. And my son is a member of Brtish Ski and the senior National Alpine Ski Squad until April 2019. And with that, done, can I say thank you very much indeed to Graham, Mark and Ben and then for giving evidence this afternoon, and particularly to Ben, for your kind agreement to follow up with any questions that we might have inviting, particularly in the context of coordination between government departments on sport, recreation, active lifestyle policies, illuminating answers. And we really appreciate your time. This has been very valuable to so many thanks.