Asked by
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, following the announcement made
by the Prime Minister on Sunday 10 May, what steps are being
taken to ensure the safety of passengers who have to use public
transport to travel to and from work.
The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video
call.
(Lab)
My Lords, in his statement to the country this Sunday, the Prime
Minister said, “Get back to work if you cannot work from home.”
He also said, “Don’t use public transport, use cars or bikes.” I
commend the Government for encouraging cycling and walking.
However, many lower-paid essential workers travel long distances
and do not have a car, so they have no choice but to use public
transport. I recently received a paper from SOAS at the
University of London, which said that security staff,
construction workers, bus drivers and other essential workers are
up to eight times more likely to die from the coronavirus
compared with someone in a professional occupation. These
essential workers fear that if they do not go to work using such
so-called unsafe modes, they will lose their jobs. Passenger
Focus has come up with some good ideas on this. Will the
Government commit that those who cannot travel to work safely and
be safe at work within the Health and Safety Executive guidelines
will be able to retain any current benefit entitlements they may
have at the moment?
The Senior Deputy Speaker ()
The Minister will answer the Question and the noble Lord’s
supplementary question combined.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for
Transport () (Con)
My Lords, passenger and transport worker safety is absolutely
paramount. To help make journeys safer, my department has today
published new guidance for both transport operators and
passengers. If people must use public transport, two-metre social
distancing and hygiene should be practised and a face covering is
advised.
I turn now to some of the other points raised by the noble Lord,
. We are of course very
concerned about some of the characteristics that seem to be seen
in those people who are the most susceptible to the coronavirus,
and work is going on across government to investigate that
further. For example, we have seen what appears to be a higher
than average death rate among bus drivers. This is a tragic loss
and we are working closely with bus operators to make sure that
we do what we can to keep those workers safe.
(Con)
My Lords, it has at long last been acknowledged that the obesity
epidemic is a very dangerous situation, especially now with
Covid-19. In fact, 75% of people with this infection are obese.
Would it not therefore be wise to advise them not to use public
transport because it is such a dangerous thing for them? If
anyone is tempted to say that calling someone obese is
judgmental, perhaps I may point out that it is simply an accurate
diagnosis.
I thank my noble friend for his observations. The Government
recognise that there is much to be done from a transport
perspective to help the nation’s health. That is why we have come
up with a £2 billion boost for cycling and walking, which we
believe are critical elements in helping people reduce their
reliance on public transport. That is why we are encouraging
people, if they are making journeys of three miles to five miles,
or fewer, that they should consider walking or cycling. That is
good for public transport and good for their health.
(LD)
On Sunday, the Prime Minister said, “Go back to work”, yet the
Department for Transport did not publish its guidance to travel
operators until this morning. I have read that guidance, and it
is still very vague on key issues such as face coverings, screens
and the handling of money. It is not prescriptive, but simply
suggestions. That is not good. Why have the Government failed to
provide the co-ordinated leadership needed by the bus industry
throughout the UK?
I would challenge the noble Baroness in her assertion that the
operator guidance is vague. It sets out the key elements that the
operators must consider, but the important element is that each
operator will be coming up with their own specific risk
assessment which is suitable for their environment and their
workforce, and, equally importantly, they will be consulting
their workforce to ensure that the risk assessment is appropriate
and that workers feel safe.
(Lab)
My Lords, the Minister acknowledges the importance of ensuring
that transport workers are safe. However, any substantial return
to work is bound to increase the vulnerability of transport
workers and staff; she has cited the case of bus drivers. I
regret to say that one of the London bus drivers who died was a
friend and former neighbour of mine. Would it not have been more
sensible to precede any general encouragement to return to work
not with advice but very clear rules: on numbers, on social
distancing and, above all, on face masks for passengers and staff
on public transport? If not, and if there is nobody to enforce
those standards, we will see a continuing problem with many
transport workers.
My Lords, the guidance for transport operators and passengers
sets out clear expectations for two-metre social distancing. At
some stages that will not be possible: on busier routes and at
busier times, and at certain points on the journey. The
Government also advise that people should use face masks or face
coverings in enclosed spaces, particularly on public transport. I
am not sure how much clearer the Government can be on that.
(CB)
My Lords, what assurance can the Minister give to disabled
passengers who require assistance—of course within the safety
considerations for all—that the current situation will not be
used to dial back “turn up and go” or prevent disabled people
travelling to work?
I thank the noble Baroness for raising this really important
issue. In the operator guidance, there are clear points for those
with protected characteristics, be they disabled, elderly or
pregnant. We have been very clear with the transport operators
that there must be no dialling back on the ability for all
passengers to get a safe and reliable service. Travel may be
slightly problematic for everybody, and therefore people are
advised to plan their journey ahead where they can, to buy their
tickets in advance and, most of all, to be patient. I reassure
the noble Baroness that services for disabled people will
continue as they did previously.
My Lords, as well as issues of safety when using public
transport, many people in rural areas are worried that the
already infrequent services in the countryside are now at further
risk. What are Her Majesty’s Government doing to ensure that
public transport will be maintained to support communities and
the economy in rural areas?
Rural transport is absolutely key to being able to provide for
more vulnerable groups who have no alternative but to use public
transport so that they are able to access the services they need.
The Government have already provided funding to support the
services during the lockdown, and we are in discussions with the
Treasury regarding supporting more services as they ramp up. As I
am sure the right reverend Prelate will understand, those
services will be suffering from a revenue loss, which the
Government will seek to make good to ensure that rural services
can be restored to what they were before.
(Con)
My Lords, as the former chairman of the APPG for cycling, I am
thrilled that the Government are keen on people bicycling.
However, without decent public transport, the economy cannot
recover. Could my noble friend please tell me what discussions
she has had with the Mayor of London? The reduction in Tube
services has had a major effect on people being unable to travel,
and people on the Underground are therefore much closer to each
other than they should be.
I reassure my noble friend that we are in close contact with
Transport for London. I speak to it probably every few days to
assess exactly where it is on its restart plans—I have a call
with it later on today. We are absolutely clear that the Mayor of
London needs to ramp up services as quickly as possible and put
in place protections such that transport workers and passengers
feel safe.
(Lab)
First, while public transport is a devolved issue, railway
services and bus routes cross the borders between UK nations; I
think that a few stations in England are also managed by
Transport for Wales. It is therefore vital that the different UK
nations develop public transport, passenger and staff safety
guidance together and in line with each other. Can the Government
give an assurance that the guidance that has been announced has
also been agreed with the Governments of the devolved nations?
Secondly, I am not sure that the Minister answered my noble
friend Lord Berkeley’s question about existing benefits being
maintained for bus drivers; for example, those who decline to
continue to work because they feel that their safety is being
compromised.
Each devolved nation is responsible for its own guidance.
However, I reassure the noble Lord that we are of course in
contact with the Administrations in the devolved nations to make
sure that our guidance is appropriate. Where there have to be
changes or where they are desired, local considerations can be
taken into account but without confusing passengers. I will have
to write to the noble Lord on benefits for bus drivers.
