(Tunbridge Wells) (Con)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he
will make a statement about support for the wages of employees.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury ()
This is an uncertain time for our country, but the Government are
clear that they will do whatever it takes to protect our people
and businesses from the coronavirus pandemic. On Tuesday, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer set out further steps in the
Government’s economic response, building on the initial response
he outlined in the Budget last week, which included standing
behind businesses, small and large, with an unprecedented package
of Government backed and guaranteed loans to support businesses
through this crisis. I have been working very closely with him
and the banks, and they are very clear about their responsibility
to make these measures work. The Government have made available
an initial £330 billion of guarantees, equivalent to 15% of our
GDP. That means that any business that needs cash to pay salaries
will be able to access a Government-backed loan on attractive
terms. The Government will do whatever it takes to support our
economy through this crisis and stand ready to provide further
support where necessary. As the Chancellor announced, we will go
much further to support people’s financial security working with
trade unions and business groups. Following his appearance at the
Treasury Select Committee yesterday afternoon, the Chancellor
spoke to the trade unions, and he will today be meeting the TUC,
the CBI, the British Chambers of Commerce, and the Federation of
Small Businesses. This will be with a view to urgently developing
new forms of employment support to help protect people’s jobs and
incomes through this period. I am sure that you will appreciate,
Mr Speaker, that these are unprecedented times. The Chancellor
has said that he will look at further steps to help protect jobs
and incomes, and he will announce further details in due course.
For much of yesterday, like many Members of the House, including
the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (), with whom I have been
working, I was speaking to businesses in our constituencies who
are facing a crisis. With revenue collapsing and no knowledge of
when normal trading can resume, they see no choice but to lay off
workers now. The loan scheme that the Chancellor announced on
Tuesday is not enough to prevent that. These businesses have no
idea when they will be able to pay back the debts they would
incur and it provides no reason to keep staff employed. In fact,
the reverse is true because, the smaller the wage bill, the less
would have to be borrowed. On Tuesday, the Chancellor promised
that there would be employment support, but as each day goes by,
businesses are making decisions that will be irreversible and if
the Government do not act immediately, large numbers of people
will be unemployed and registering them will put huge pressure on
the welfare system. Vital skills will be lost and good
businesses, which will themselves be the customers and suppliers
of other businesses, will cease trading.
There is a straightforward and immediate solution. All employers
have an account with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to pay tax
for employees through pay-as-you-earn. The monthly wage bill is
known to HMRC. Instead of firms paying PAYE to the Government,
that flow should now be reversed, with the nation paying the
wages of people for the next few weeks if, and only if, they
continue to employ their staff. Separate arrangements would need
to be made for the self-employed, but at a stroke this would save
people’s jobs, save businesses and put an immediate end to the
risk of contagion and help to save the economy. This is a crisis
the like of which we have not seen for 100 years. It requires a
response that is immediate, effective and equal to the scale of
the problem. The Chancellor said that he will do whatever it
takes, and do so urgently. He now needs to make good on that
without delay.
I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for raising this
matter. I made clear in my response the urgency of the
Government’s deliberations on this—it is absolutely at the top of
everything we are doing. Ministers are working flat out, 24/7, to
look at all the options.
My right hon. Friend raises the specific anxieties of businesses.
I recognise that the package of measures that we have put
out—with respect to statutory sick pay, easier access to
universal credit and employment and support allowance, the
business rates relief, the small business grant facility, the
local authority hardship funds and the HMRC forbearance
measures—will for some not feel sufficient at this point.
However, he will also know from his experience in government that
it is very important that when the Government announce the
measures that we wish to take to assist with supporting
employees, they need to be effective and need to work. So I say
to the House and to my right hon. Friend: be in no doubt that all
options are being examined. We are looking at models that exist
in other jurisdictions and when, very imminently, the Chancellor
comes to the House, we want to be sure that what we announce will
be effective.
(Bootle) (Lab)
It is now six and a half weeks since the first cases of
coronavirus were reported in the UK. For over a month we have
known about the substantial risk that coronavirus poses to the
economy and to workers, yet the Government have announced no plan
to protect jobs and wages—no full plan for employment support. We
are all—all of us—inundated with so many questions, and I have
just four of those questions to ask.
People are asking us: why, for example, have Denmark, which had
its first coronavirus case on 27 February, and New Zealand, which
had its first case on 28 February, four weeks after our first
case, both announced comprehensive job protection plans, while we
have announced nothing to secure people’s jobs and wages? Given
that, the second question is: what consideration has been given
to the models in Denmark and Austria, which the Economic
Secretary referred to, which involve the Government paying the
bulk of people’s wages in exchange for job guarantees?
The third question is: why, when the Chancellor announced the
loan guarantee on Tuesday, did the Government not tie those loans
into an undertaking from business that no one would be laid off?
The fourth question: will the Minister accept that freelancers
will need additional support if they do not qualify for statutory
sick pay? For example, in the culture sector we have as many as 2
million people, hundreds of thousands of whom may be affected.
The country deserves answers to those questions as a matter of
urgency. We will continue to ask these questions not as a matter
of political point scoring or ideology, but to ensure that we
have a Government response that properly protects the public and
matches the scale of the crisis affecting us here and now, not
just next week.
It is in order for the hon. Gentleman to raise those points, and
he is right to draw attention to the experience in Denmark.
Throughout this crisis, the Government have acted on the best
scientific and health advice, and that has clearly had to move
over time. That advice has been challenged and questioned, and
the Prime Minister and the Cabinet have made decisions based on
the best advice available. Consequent to the health advice, which
is clearly motivated to relieve as much pressure as possible on
the NHS, there are other issues that we are dealing with
urgently, and sequentially we are offering that advice as
urgently as we can in different domains.
The hon. Gentleman asked about the Danish experience, and we are
looking at the furlough system. We are looking at the proportion
of support that is available, and we are also looking at the
German system. In the last significant recession that happened in
2009-10—that is broadly the comparator that we could use—only 3%
of German firms were helped. We are aware of what is happening in
the US, and we are aware of the proposals that have been put
forward by various think-tanks this morning. We are looking
thoroughly at all those options, but it is very important that we
have a system that delivers the support that is required to
employers.
We have extended the coronavirus business interruption loan to up
to £5 million. It is clear that there will be no interest payable
in the first six months and no fees, and obviously we expect
businesses to use that to support their employees during this
time.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
To assist the House, I can say that I expect this to run until
around 11.15.
(Chingford and
Woodford Green) (Con)
I commend my hon. Friend and I agree with him—that is something
that the Government should be moving on now, but there is
something else the Government could do literally today. Universal
credit has three basic levers that can all be pulled now
enormously to help people who are in work. First, the taper could
be lowered dramatically at this stage, which would push the floor
right up underneath people in work at the moment, allowing them
to fall back on that if employers cannot deal with them.
Secondly, Ministers could change benefit rates, allowing a
greater expanse of money to flow to claimants: that could be done
today. The third area where my hon. Friend could act is to look
at the waiting time and reduce that almost immediately. Those
three things were always built into the system for flexibility
and they can be done today. They can be delivered within days by
a Department that already has the ability to do that while he
gets on with the other facilities.
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who has unrivalled
experience in this area. He makes some very reasonable points,
and we are looking very carefully at all the options. As I said
earlier, when we have decided—very imminently—the Chancellor will
make announcements to this House first.
(Glasgow East) (SNP)
In recent days, the Chancellor has already outlined support for
business, which the SNP has welcomed. In Scotland, that support
has been passed on in full by our Finance Secretary, . However, I remain concerned
that not enough support is being mobilised for sole traders,
freelancers and the self-employed. Today though, our focus is
rightly on people, many of whom are already self-isolating or
moving to work from home, if indeed they can. But bills are still
coming in and rent payments are being sought, and so I welcome
the news that some support will be put in place, for example, for
payment for energy bills. The question is who is eligible for
that, and will that go far enough. Will the Government use the
tax system to put thousands of pounds in people’s pockets by way
of an emergency universal basic income? Will the Government
extend statutory sick pay to the 2 million people who earn less
than £118 a week and benchmark it to at least the real living
wage?
Firms are already starting to make staff redundant, but we need
to stem the flow of that immediately, and today. The Government
should introduce a statutory retention scheme to provide firms
with financial support to keep staff in employment during this
uncertain time.
Now more than ever, our social security system needs to kick in.
To protect families impacted by hardship and strengthen automatic
stabilisers that support demands in the economy, does the
Minister agree that the main adult rate of out of work support in
universal credit and other benefits, including carer’s allowance,
should rise by a third to £100 per week?
We are in the midst of a national emergency the likes of which I
have never seen before. How this generation of politicians
responds to the crisis will be how history judges us. During the
financial crisis of 2008, no expense was spared to bail out the
banks, so today with the coronavirus outbreak we must similarly
be prepared to bail out household budgets at this time of
economic crisis. It calls for us all to rise to the occasion.
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. It is important that the
Government do whatever it takes in these circumstances. He raises
a number of specific points. He will be familiar with the changes
we have made in terms of access to statutory sick pay and
eligibility starting much sooner; that commenced from 13 March.
He will be aware that, to make that easier, there is now no need
to have a GP note. He makes number of points on universal credit
and changing the eligibility there. Advances are available
online; the minimum income floor has been temporarily released.
He also makes a number of points about freelancers and the
self-employed, which the Government are clear about.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned the universal basic income. The
Government are looking at that, but the question whether it will
help the most affected most urgently is one we have to consider.
Many of us in this House, for example, would not require such
support. We have to ensure that we target it at the most
vulnerable.
(Beckenham) (Con)
I have had a lot of emails on this subject, so may I ask the
Minister again how the Government are going to support
freelancers and the self-employed? They are desperately worried.
My hon. and gallant Friend is right to raise that. We have
changed the rules on access to employment support allowance and
sick pay. It will depend on individual circumstances. We have
also released funds to local authorities for hardship relief.
Further advice on that will be given tomorrow by the Ministry of
Housing, Communities and Local Government.
(East Ham) (Lab)
I very much agree with the proposals just made by the right hon.
Member for Chingford and Woodford Green ( ). It is particularly
important that the advances paid to people claiming universal
credit become non-repayable for those affected by the crisis. The
Minister mentioned the suspension of the minimum income floor for
self-employed people—a welcome announcement made by the
Chancellor in the Budget—but it appears to relate only to people
who are directly affected by covid-19, whereas many of those
suffering at the moment are not themselves ill but are affected
by the wider changes in the economy. Will the Economic Secretary
confirm that the lifting of the minimum income floor will apply
also to those who are not directly affected? Will we know the
details of the employment support package—I am glad the
Government are working on that—before this weekend?
The right hon. Gentleman makes some specific points essentially
about the consequential effects on different groups of employees
who are affected. I cannot comment on the details of that. As for
the timing of the employment support announcement, we are working
on it as quickly as we can. There is no timetable or specific
date because we have got to get it right. We are working as
urgently as possible, but I cannot tell him the precise moment at
this point.
(Harwich and North Essex)
(Con)
I commend my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells
() for his urgent question and
endorse everything he said. Those of us who are not in the engine
room of Government are being told by our constituents that,
welcome though Tuesday’s package was, it is simply not going to
be enough. When diehards such as my right hon. Friend the Member
for Wokingham () and Allister Heath of The
Daily Telegraph are lining up for far more radical measures than
the Government have yet announced, the Government must take note.
May I urge the Government to say something today to give people
assurance that the help will come?
I thank my right hon. Friend for his observations. He is right,
but there is no sense that the Government are saying that what we
have announced is the last announcement we are going to make. It
is a question of making sure that when we announce measures, they
will be effective in meeting the needs that we know exist. All of
us, across the House, will have been inundated with emails from
concerned individuals and businesses. We are taking that on board
and acting as swiftly as we can. The points raised today are
directly informing the nature of our response.
(Kingston upon Hull North)
(Lab)
I understand that this is very difficult for the Government and I
am sympathetic, but this is about real people’s lives. The
Treasury’s natural approach—being cautious and wanting to
stress-test everything—is not appropriate in these circumstances.
The right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green ( ) suggested some
really good ideas. Why can they not just be implemented today?
I understand the hon. Lady’s frustration. It is totally
reasonable for Members of this House to be extremely concerned in
the absence of the announcement, but it would be even worse, I
would suggest, if we made ad hoc announcements when different
Government Departments were not quite ready to implement those
effectively. We are talking about an unprecedented crisis, and
therefore we will need to take unprecedented measures. It is
important that we do that as swiftly as possible, but it is also
important that we do it as effectively as possible.
(Cities of London and
Westminster) (Con)
I thank my hon. Friend for his recent announcements, and I
absolutely understand that we are living in unprecedented times.
In my constituency, hospitality and hotels are obviously huge
employers. Is there any scope for the suspension of national
insurance contributions, which would really help many of the
chains, and particularly the smaller hotels? From speaking to
those at the Goring hotel this week, I know that they are very
concerned, and they are now offering their hotel to the
Government for anything they need—for hospitals or for employees.
Suspending NI contributions would be great.
I thank my hon. Friend for her suggestions. Obviously, we have
made a specific package of interventions available in the retail,
leisure and hospitality sectors. We also have the grant facility
at a high level for those sectors. She makes a reasonable point,
and we will look at it—and we are looking at it—very carefully.
(Richmond Park) (LD)
I was here on Tuesday night when the Chancellor made his
statement, and there can be no doubt what the attitude of the
House was at that time. It was that the package of loans and
other measures announced by the Chancellor on that occasion would
not be sufficient. It would not be sufficient for those who are
relying on benefits, it would not be sufficient for those who are
already finding themselves out of work, and it would not be
sufficient for the self-employed. Here we are two days later, and
the Minister is telling us that there simply has not been time to
consider these things. This is urgent, and we really must have
action now. Why is it taking so long?
Every day, Ministers across all Departments are working on
different aspects of the package. Yesterday my right hon. Friend
the Housing, Communities and Local Government Secretary brought
forward some measures for renters. We also have the three-month
relief for mortgage holders where they need it, and for
buy-to-let mortgage holders. There is more work being done
urgently to give clarity on the elements that Members of the
House are raising, but, as I said earlier, it is a question of
making sure that when these measures are announced, they are
going to be effective and can be delivered efficiently.
(Waveney) (Con)
The feedback I am receiving is that many businesses will have
difficulty in accessing Government loans because of restrictions
they have in granting additional security to a new lender. With
that in mind, may I urge the Government to support payroll costs
far more directly, as other European Governments are doing? This
is the way to avoid large-scale redundancies.
My hon. Friend refers to the loans. I was meeting the banks last
night to make sure that these loans are accessible. The criteria
for issuing them are based on the solvency of businesses prior to
this crisis arising. It is absolutely clear that the banks see
they have a massive responsibility to make this scheme work. That
term sheet is being finalised; it may already have been finalised
this morning. The banks are now working on making sure that that
will be available through all their call centres and branches. He
makes the suggestion of a supplementary measure, and we are
looking at these things very carefully.
(Nottingham South)
(Lab)
A constituent of mine works in a residential home for adults with
learning disabilities. Her son’s school will be closed from
Monday. She does not know whether she is considered a key worker,
and even if she is, as seems obvious, her son has respiratory
problems, so she is uncertain whether she wants to send him to
school. Her employer says she will not be paid and is not even
entitled to statutory sick pay if she cannot come into work
because of childcare. What should she do? Where is the clear
advice and guidance, and where is the helpline for the thousands
of other constituents of mine and of every single Member in this
House? Where can they get answers, because they are so worried?
The hon. Lady makes a reasonable point about the concerns that
are being raised. That is why the Cabinet Office will give
further advice today on key workers and the support that will be
given. I recognise that yesterday’s announcement on schools will
be a significant disruption to the lives of many of our citizens.
It is very important that we put in place urgently clarity about
who is involved—who is designated in those categories—and the
support that will be available. I will ensure that her point,
which I am sure reflects the views of many, gets to the Cabinet
Office after this session.
(New Forest East)
(Con)
Given that the suggestions of my right hon. Friend the Member for
Chingford and Woodford Green ( ) could be
implemented so speedily, will the Minister undertake to try
immediately after this session to get an answer on whether they
should be implemented?
I thank my right hon. Friend for that question. Of course I will.
(Edinburgh East) (SNP)
The very essence of the hospitality industry is to provide social
contact. Does the Minister understand the real anger of many in
that industry that the Government have given advice to their
customers but not to them? If the Government believe premises
should close, they should say so, and they should accept the
consequences of paying people whose idleness is enforced because
of a contribution to a public health emergency. What is so hard
to understand is that the system for doing that is staring the
Government in the face. It already exists. It is called Her
Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. That is a system for taking money
out of wage packets every month and giving it to the Government;
now, it should be put into reverse to put money into the pockets
of those employees.
The hon. Gentleman is right to express the deep frustration of
people in that sector, and I am sure his words resonate across
the House. We have put in resources for 2,000 people from HMRC to
take calls for bespoke solutions to deal with some of those
issues. He is right that there is also an issue in terms of
access to insurance. I was on a conference call with the
insurance industry to clarify that where insurance has been taken
out, that will be effective. However, he is perfectly right that
more work needs to be done, and I have been very clear that more
will be forthcoming imminently.
(Beaconsfield)
(Con)
I thank the Minister for the measures that he has already taken
to help the self-employed, but my constituency has the highest
number of self-employed in the country, so will he elaborate on
what tax incentives, or tax advice or support, can be given to
the self-employed at this time, particularly during April over
the end of the financial year?
As I said to the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (), people have access to an
HMRC support line, which is properly manned and up and running.
That should give them bespoke support for their circumstances. I
have referred to the package of other measures that the
Chancellor announced a few days ago.
(Swansea East) (Lab)
Charities such as Faith in Families in my constituency are really
nervous that they will not be able to pay their wages. Without
staff, they cannot deliver the projects for which they are
applying for funding, which would provide food and childcare
facilities in very deprived areas. That is necessary now; it will
become essential in the future. What can the Government do to
help those charities?
The hon. Lady is right with respect to the role that charities
play across our communities, binding communities together and
working closely with local authorities. My colleague in the
Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government is working
on these matters, and we will make further announcements shortly.
(Bournemouth East) (Con)
I echo the calls for urgent support for British tourism, which I
know the Minister will be familiar with in his constituency. In
the Bournemouth area, tourism is worth more than £1 billion and
directly employs 17,000 people. I received a letter from David
Bailey, who is chair of the Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole
destination management board. He talks about lay-offs happening
right now, as we speak, affecting the future of businesses. He
asks whether it would be better if, rather than handing out
benefit claims, the Government provided salaries immediately.
That would mean the industry could retain the skills that will be
needed to spearhead the economic recovery and would reduce the
number of businesses that cease to trade. Will the Government
consider that?
My right hon. Friend makes some very reasonable points about the
tourism sector just down the road from my constituency. The issue
of what we do to support sectors that are directly and
immediately affected by the action we have had to take will be at
the front of our minds as we examine what employment support to
put in place.
(Eltham) (Lab)
After six and a half weeks, when we knew we might reach this
stage, it is hard to understand why the Government have no idea
what they are going to do to pay the wages of those who are being
laid off. A whole tranche of people are going to be laid off now,
and more industries will lay people off next week and the week
after. If the Government do not act now, they will not be able to
retrieve the situation. How have we got to the point where the
Government have not got a clue?
I accept the hon. Gentleman’s frustration, but characterising the
Government as not having a clue misrepresents the situation
considerably. There are a large number of issues that we need to
examine, and we are doing so at pace. We will make further
announcements to address those that have been raised in the House
today. We have sequentially done more by the day, reflecting the
evolving nature of this crisis and the steps we have had to take,
based on health and scientific advice. I understand that the hon.
Gentleman is not happy with the Government’s announcements so
far, but more will be coming.
(Harrow East) (Con)
This weekend, pubs, clubs, restaurants and other retail outlets
will be considering whether to close on an almost permanent
basis, and the people employed in them have an uncertain future.
However, most of them are relatively young and mobile, and they
are able to offer help and assistance to the weak and vulnerable.
Could we not guarantee loans to those outlets on the condition
that those people continue to be paid and that they then become
part of a volunteer force to help the weak and vulnerable at this
time of crisis?
As ever, my hon. Friend makes a sensible suggestion. I will look
at it carefully.
(Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)
I do wish Ministers would stop using hyperbole such as “whatever
it takes”, when they do not follow through sufficiently quickly.
Will the Government extend SSP to support all workers and pay it
at the rate of the real living wage straightaway?
The Government will do whatever it takes, but we also want to
make sure that when we do it, it will be effective. The hon.
Gentleman made a specific point about statutory sick pay, and the
Government will bring forward a package of measures in due
course.
(Kettering) (Con)
Many of the “just about managing” are not managing, and there
will be many more of them in the next few days. The last thing we
need at this time is an over-engineered new system. As a humble
Back Bencher, I have heard many good ideas in the Chamber this
morning—particularly from my right hon. Friends the Members for
Chingford and Woodford Green ( ) and for Tunbridge
Wells () and the right hon. Member for
East Ham (). If those three right hon.
Members are not in No. 11 for a meeting later today, I will be
really disappointed. We have had the architect of universal
credit in the Chamber, and he has given the Government the answer
to their problem. Please can we get a move on?
I take the challenge from my hon. Friend in the spirit in which
it was intended. There is no sense that the Treasury is trying to
over-engineer anything. We are not trying to restrain spending
for the sake of restraining it. We want to bring forward an
effective package of measures that effectively meets the needs of
the most vulnerable. My hon. Friend makes the reasonable point
that a number of colleagues of great seniority have raised
significant points of interest, and I will ensure that their
contributions are heard at the heart of this process today.
(Enfield, Southgate) (Lab)
Dental practices are at high risk of spreading coronavirus, yet
there was nothing for them in the financial package on Tuesday,
which means they have to stay open, with an increased risk of
spreading coronavirus. Will the Government give assurances that
they will cover fixed-price dental costs so that dentists can
close and provide only urgent care?
The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. I will take it
back to my colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care
and see what can be done.
(The Wrekin) (Con)
Many of the Government’s schemes have to be delivered through
retail banks, which means people and businesses calling already
overloaded call centres and going into retail branches—where they
exist—which might restrict hours over the coming days. Most banks
and most large private sector companies in this country that rely
on some phone contact have resilience and contingency places
dotted around the country that have pop-up call centres in times
of crisis. Could the Government deploy those to ensure that
desperate immediate-need calls from businesses and individuals
are dealt with as quickly as possible?
My hon. Friend makes a very good point about the resilience
required in banks at this difficult time. I discussed that with
the heads of the banks last night and over the previous two days.
We need to ensure that the terms of these loans are effective in
allowing people to access them swiftly and we need to ensure that
the banks can ramp up the accessibility of their specialist
advisers. I have been given assurances that that will be in
place.
(Hackney South and Shoreditch)
(Lab/Co-op)
So many of my constituents are caught up in this, like those of
other hon. Members, and I have constituents who have no recourse
to public funds, so when they are unable to work they cannot
claim benefits. Many are freelancers and people who are
self-employed and running small businesses. None of the packages
the Government have announced help them so far. The Minister has
had to be dragged here to answer an urgent question and has
nothing he can say that will comfort our constituents. I think we
all recognise that it is difficult, but could he not even give us
a clue about the general direction of thinking from the
Government? Will he raise the local housing allowance? Will the
Government ensure that those with no recourse to public funds get
funded? Will they stop this ridiculous loan system, which will
never get paid back? Businesses will go bankrupt before they can
pay it, and they are laying off staff now.
The hon. Lady raises a number of sensible points. We are looking
at many of them. I reassure her that we will make further
announcements very soon. Yes, we are looking at the ideas raised.
We are looking at other jurisdictions. But in some cases we have
a very different set of processes and IT systems behind some of
these Government Department distribution mechanisms. I know that
that is very technical, but the bottom line is that we need to
ensure that when we introduce something, it delivers.
(Isle of Wight) (Con)
I support strongly the ideas on the universal employment
retention package proposed by several right hon. Friends, and I
hope that the Government take it on board to prevent a health
crisis becoming an economic disaster. In addition, briefly,
rateable value capped at £51,000 is too low for medium-sized
tourism employers such as the Seaview Hotel. Secondly, we need
clarity in the system because my chamber of commerce still does
not know how to apply. Thirdly, we need a package for the
voluntary sector. West Wight sports centre is a world-leading
sailing academy and a major employer on my patch. We need either
a voluntary sector package or a universal employment retention
programme.
I thank my hon. Friend for his points; he raises a number of
interesting ideas. He is absolutely right about the voluntary
sector needing support. As I have indicated, there will be a
package coming and different Departments are working together to
make this as effective and comprehensive as possible. His
constituency has a number of issues regarding the hospitality and
leisure sector, and I am very aware of the representations he has
been making to Government over the previous few days.
(Sefton Central) (Lab)
Letting many people get into rent or mortgage arrears or asking
businesses to take on debt are not the answers. They are just
going to make the crisis worse—[Hon. Members: “And longer.”] Yes,
thank you. Every business, every employee, every self-employed
person and everybody in the third sector needs to know that their
living costs will be covered. The Government need to show the
urgency that the Minister talks about and they need to show it
today. Will the Chancellor come back today and make a statement
on how they will deliver this?
The hon. Gentleman is perfectly right that we need a
comprehensive package that deals with businesses, the voluntary
sector and individual employees of different categories. We are
looking very carefully at the best way to do that, in addition to
the significant package of measures we have introduced. I feel
his frustration and I will take all these points back and make
sure that they are addressed.
(Gloucester) (Con)
The greatest difficulty for the Government in this
fast-deteriorating situation of no one’s making is the speed of
response. My worry is that the business interruption loans
package will be too clunky for most small and medium-sized
businesses, and the cash grants will take too long to get to
businesses before decisions are made about jobs. Will the
Minister look closely at the recommendation of our right hon.
Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells ()? If that were put in place,
some of the recommendations made by my right hon. Friend the
Member for Chingford and Woodford Green ( ) on universal credit
would not be so important.
I note the point that my hon. Friend makes about the clunkiness
of existing measures, and obviously we are looking at the point
raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells. My
hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester () refers to the accessibility
of the loans. The Government guarantee to the banks through the
British Business Bank is in order to provide a massive incentive
to making the loans available to solvent businesses as quickly as
possible, but I hear his concerns, and they are reflected in the
design and in conversations that we are having with the banks.
(Glasgow North) (SNP)
Does the Minister not understand that a universal minimum income
guarantee does exactly what it says on the tin? It will provide
that minimum level playing field for tenants and their landlords,
for business owners and their employees; it will provide everyone
with a minimum level of assurance so that they can have some
certainty in this time of uncertainty.
Yes, I recognise the provisions of a universal minimum income
guarantee, and we are looking at that. We are looking at a number
of options, and will bring forward a response as quickly as we
can.
(Totnes) (Con)
Like many Members, I have been fielding calls for the past 10
days from businesses that are sitting on the wire, wondering
whether their futures are safeguarded. Has the Minister looked at
the possibility of a VAT rebate for businesses that are
desperately trying to hold on to their employees to ensure that
they have a future? Will he please look into that, and will he
also ensure that we have greater clarification of whether pubs
are open or closed, because that is causing much greater distress
than it needs to cause?
My hon. Friend makes a reasonable point about the hospitality
sector, and a very credible suggestion with respect to VAT.
Across the benefits system and the tax system, we are looking at
the optimisation of interventions to support the most vulnerable
and most affected at this time, and to give reassurance to the
whole country. We will urgently bring forward measures to address
the concerns that he has raised.
(North Durham) (Lab)
Individuals are losing their jobs now—they are in desperate need
now. Andrew Brown, a freelance graphic designer in my
constituency, contacted me this morning; his business has folded
overnight, and he cannot apply for any grants because he works
from home. What does he do in that situation? The Minister talks
about the great package that was announced the other night, but
councils still do not have the guidance to get that money out to
businesses. I urge him to get that out as a matter of urgency,
because this morning Durham County Council told me that it will
not be available until the weekend, and that is too late.
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his points. I accept the
need to give urgent advice through the Ministry of Housing,
Communities and Local Government. My understanding is that that
advice will be coming tomorrow. I understand—
It is too late—businesses are going bust now.
I understand the frustration felt in the House. We are all
receiving emails from constituents who are in a state of great
anxiety. The Government are working—
You are not!
We are collectively working as hard as we can to come up with the
right package as soon as possible.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
We are really going to have to speed up.
(Aylesbury) (Con)
There are more micro-businesses in Buckinghamshire than in any
other county in the country. I pay tribute to Buckinghamshire
Business First, which is working extremely hard to try to support
them, but may I urge my hon. Friend to take the unique needs of
micro-businesses into account in the measures that he is
developing?
My hon. Friend makes a reasonable point about the nature of the
businesses across his constituency. We need to ensure that we
have an effective intervention for all workers.
(Edinburgh North and Leith)
(SNP)
Our farmers, crofters and fishers are crucially producing our
food, but the situation has rocked those sectors to their
foundations. Will the Minister outline what specific
considerations are being given to supporting those sectors, so
that they can continue their vital work?
The hon. Lady will know that a large number of the grants and
loans schemes will be accessible to all sectors, as well as
grants from the local authority. Comprehensive advice went out to
all hon. Members last night setting out all that information, and
there will be further announcements. Sector-specific issues are
best addressed through the Department for Environment, Food and
Rural Affairs, but I hope the announcements that we have made
will give some interim comfort to her constituents at this
difficult time.
(Warwick and Leamington)
(Lab)
I am afraid that it is quite evident that the Government have
lost support and confidence across the Chamber, and that is
echoed by the markets. We have seen a 5% drop in sterling, which
will translate into higher food and energy prices for already
hard-pressed households. In Warwick and Leamington, we are losing
jobs and good businesses. Will the Minister support the comments
of the right hon. Members for Chingford and Woodford Green
( ) and for Tunbridge
Wells () and introduce some form of
universal income support to restore both the supply and demand
side?
Mr Speaker
We are going to have to speed up.
I acknowledge the point on the minimum income guarantee, which I
have responded to previously. On co-ordination with the Bank of
England, we have worked with the Financial Conduct Authority to
introduce better forbearance measures for the banks so that they
can act effectively and use their flexibilities. Obviously the
bridging facility that the Bank of England has brought forward
for bigger businesses is also important.
(Ceredigion) (PC)
Will the Minister assure us that the package of measures that the
Government intend to bring forward will offer support to the
self-employed, sole traders and freelancers who may not
themselves be ill but who may have already lost work due to the
economic disruption of covid-19?
I confirm to the hon. Gentleman that we are looking at the most
comprehensive package that we can bring forward that deals with
all sectors and all categories. We want it to be effective to
deal with the reality of the challenges that our country faces.
(Stretford and Urmston)
(Lab)
May I raise a specific question with the Minister? Childminders
and childcare providers in my constituency tell me that, although
they have insurance if they have to close their businesses as a
result of a notifiable disease, which covid-19 clearly now is,
insurance companies are saying that they will not provide the
cover, because it does not appear on the list of notifiable
diseases. Will the Minister take that up urgently with the
industry?
I have taken that up urgently with the industry. Businesses take
out business relief, and then about 5% take out insurance for
non-specified diseases, and 5% for specified diseases. We have
made sure that for those that have taken insurance for specified
diseases, that will be triggered by the Government’s announcement
this week, and the other package of measures will support
businesses that do not have that insurance. We cannot retrofit
contractual obligations to insurance companies.
(Cardiff West) (Lab)
The Minister is a decent man, but there is a feeling across the
Chamber that Treasury Ministers, and the Chancellor in
particular, find it difficult to empathise with the situation
that people find themselves in and do not speak human very well.
I appeal to Ministers to show a bit more understanding of the
predicament facing freelancers and the self-employed who have
lost all their work, and perhaps take on board simple ideas, such
as that of the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (). Reverse the polarity—it
usually works.
I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman wishes to criticise the tone
of my response. I am clear that this is an unprecedented crisis.
The Government have made a series of announcements, and will be
making further announcements. A range of sensible suggestions
have been made, many of which we are already examining urgently.
In response to specific questions about technical matters, I have
had to use quite complex and unfamiliar constructions. If I did
not do that, I would not be answering the question. If I used too
many soundbites, I would be criticised in another way. We will do
everything we can to take on board the questions that have been
raised today to come forward with a comprehensive package that
all our constituents will see as effective.
(St Albans) (LD)
I asked the Government 10 days ago whether they would guarantee
the wages, rents and business rates of small businesses. The
measures that have been announced are riddled with problems.
Businesses in St Albans tell me that they do not qualify for the
secured loans or the grants up to £25,000, and they are being
told that business interruption insurance will be payable only
after the event when the insurance company can see how much they
have lost. That is not good enough. Businesses are saying that
Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs must be used, not the benefits
system; that they need grants, not loans; and that wages for all
must be guaranteed, and guaranteed today.
I will not reiterate some of the responses I have given, in the
interests of time, but I am very happy to look at the specific
insurance point, as a responsible Minister, and see what I can
do.
(Bristol East) (Lab)
Can I ask about people who use registered childminders who now
will not be able to do so? Quite understandably, childminders are
still asking for the fees, because otherwise they will be short.
We now have people who cannot go to work because they have to
look after their children, but if they are self-employed, they
cannot get money either. What support is available to help them?
The Government are very aware of that particular category. We are
looking very carefully at what we can do and an urgent
announcement will be made with respect to that issue.
(Newcastle upon Tyne Central)
(Lab)
Can I say to the Minister as constructively as possible that his
Government’s economic response is undermining the public health
response? Job losses are contagious. Fear of economic hardship
will spread the virus. The technical details can wait, but he
needs to say now—today—that in principle he will guarantee the
incomes of everyone at a level that provides security.
We will do what it takes to support workers who are in distress.
We have brought forward a package of measures, some of which will
be imminently delivered, such as the unprecedented loan scheme.
We have also added a number of grant schemes available through
local authorities and reliefs from business rates, and additional
measures will be coming imminently.
(Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)
(Ind)
The Links market is the largest street fair in Europe and has
been happening every spring for the last 700 years in Kirkcaldy.
Unfortunately, as a result of coronavirus, the Scottish section
of the Showmen’s Guild of Great Britain has had to take the
reluctant decision to postpone the event this year. That is going
to cause significant hardship for their members. It will also
have a significant impact on the local economy because it
attracts many visitors. What support will be available to get
them through this difficult time and preserve their important
fair?
The hon. Gentleman highlights what many colleagues are going to
experience: events that have been planned and have been going on
for many, many decades will be cancelled as a result of what is
happening. The package of measures that we have announced will be
accessible to many of those people. The sectors that are involved
will sometimes have sector-specific packages, where there has
been a direct effect as a consequence of Government decisions,
and we are urgently working on a broader package with respect to
employees.
(Bristol West) (Lab)
I am sure that the Minister will have heard the cross-party
consensus here. If the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex
( ) and I are in complete
agreement, something is happening, so on behalf of the 130,000
people of Bristol West, I plead with him to take every single one
of these suggestions straight back to the Treasury and to put
them into practice today.
The hon. Lady can absolutely take my assurance that we are
working to absorb all ideas from across the House that can be
actioned. I brought forward legislation previously in this House
building a cross-party consensus, and we would seek to do so on
this, too.
(Angus) (SNP)
The Minister is very keen to point out that he understands the
frustration of Members and their constituents. Can I assist him
by pointing out that it is no longer frustration, but
desperation? What we need are not loans; we need grants.
Businesses in Angus are asking me why they should take out a loan
to provide incomes for people who cannot work, through no fault
of their own. That looks dangerously like welfare, and delivering
welfare is the responsibility of Government. When will the
Government deliver?
I understand the use of the word “desperation”—I recognise that,
and that is why we are working urgently to have a package of
measures, and extend that package of measures, so that there are
a range of options to businesses of different sizes in different
situations, based on their sector and the risks that they face.
Mr Speaker
Last, but certainly never least, I call .
(Strangford) (DUP)
The first coronavirus death has been confirmed in Northern
Ireland, and I wish, through the House, to convey our
commiserations to the family.
I have been contacted by a school bus driver on a zero-hours
contract who normally works 45 hours a week but has now been told
that there is no work for him until further notice. Does his
employer not have an obligation to pay his wages, and the wages
of others in the same boat? What is the Minister’s message to
help this employee?
I am very happy to look at that individual’s circumstance. We
have made interventions to provide advances of ESA and to remove
the minimum income floor. It is clear that we will need to do
more to support employees who have been specifically affected by
the tough decisions we have taken. I am very sorry to hear of the
first death in Northern Ireland.
