Transcript of Jeremy Corbyn interview on BBC News

Pienaar: Could you sum up so it's easy to understand what is Labour's position now? It looks like a significant shift.

Corbyn: It is that any deal that goes before parliament no-deal or a Tory deal should be put to a put to a public vote so the people can decide whether they wish to accept that position or there's an alternative to remain in the EU because I believe both Conservative leadership candidates are vying with each other in extremities of no deal and I think that is very dangerous for our economy, to food supplies, to medicine supplies and to industrial investment. 

Pienaar: Have you given into pressure here from colleagues and the mass membership or have you changed your mind?

Corbyn: What I've done is what I think a leader should do and that is spend some time listening to people. Many or my colleagues have found this a very frustrating experience because they've said why don't you just tell us what to think. No, I want to take the movement with me. I want to take the membership with me, I want to take the unions with me, I want to take the public with us if we can because this is a very important time for this country. However you voted in 2016 you have a stake in the future. The future, how much investment we have, what trade agreements we have, what jobs we have. Or, do we go into the scenario which Hunt and Johnson discussing with each other if that's how you can describe their debate of having a sweetheart deal with the US which would I believe bring us deregulation of our environment and food standards and I think ultimately a damage to workers' rights and other things in this country.  We have to have trade relationship with Europe in any scenario in the future

Pienaar: But you have backed off here, you never wanted this position, you didn't want to upset leave supporting, perhaps future Labour voters?

Corbyn:  I want to bring people together. People voted remain or people voted leave in 2016, as I've often said if you voted remain in Tottenham and you're on universal credit you're living a very difficult life with insecure work, poor quality housing, and you wanted something better you probably voted remain as most people in that area did.  If you're living in East Midlands and you're faced with exactly the same problems as people in Tottenham you might well have voted leave. In reality your interests are the same you want a government that will get rid of universal credit, you want a government that will invest in your future, you want a government which is going to invest in your community. Many communities which voted leave, you can just take a parallel to it, had almost no investment since end of the miners' strike and have only seen low-paid, poor quality jobs as a replacement for the industrial jobs which were lost in the past. A Labour government with a national investment bank, with regional transformation funds investing in all parts of our country will make a huge difference. I want the space to make that argument to put that case to people and I do think we have to say no to no deal. No deal would be disastrous for people all across this country and that's why I've come to this position after an awful lot of listening to an awful lot of people most of them actually in this room.

Pienaar: you promised to observe and follow the results of the 2016 referendum, now you have this position are you worried that many voters who voted leave will turn away from Labour now?

Corbyn: No not at all. We said we would respect the result of the 2016 referendum, we campaigned to remain in that, we got the result we've got which was a small majority to leave, and we supported the invocation of A50 early in 2017. We fought the General election respecting that result. Since then we've forced government to get to a position where there was a meaningful vote in parliament. We forced the government to accept that was a majority in parliament against no deal and we also for the first time in recorded history said parliament held government in contempt because of the way it had refused information to parliament. So I think we’ve fought a very good piece of opposition to what the government's been doing. We've also..

Pienaar: Leave voters Jeremy....they are betrayed?

Corbyn: Can I finish please? What I was saying was that the government then invited us in for talks when they clearly could not get Theresa May's deal through parliament, it was historically defeated by the biggest margin ever. I accepted that invitation we went into talks for a few weeks, we put forward our five pillars, the protection of rights, the customs union with the European Union, a trade relationship, at the end of the day it became v clear to me that the government simply couldn't deliver even if they agreed anything with us. And so I stopped the talks, and said well this is the end of the road on that and we'd have to go back to parliament on it. The Prime Minister subsequently resigned, we now have a new Prime Minister coming in a few weeks' time, we will have to see what happens then. But I've made it very clear, our important position now is to prevent a no-deal scenario at the end of this.

Pienaar: What about the next election? What will you say at next election if there's no Brexit by then?

Corbyn: Well the next election will come when it comes, it could be this October, it could be next year, if could be in 2022. I don't know anymore than you do. What you've probably gathered from this discussion is that we have a very large party, a very large membership and many parts to our party and our movement.  We have a democratic process, we will decide very quickly at the start of that campaign exactly what our position will be. We don't know whether by that stage whether we will have left the EU, still in the EU, or in the process of a parliamentary struggle with Johnson or Hunt trying to take us over a cliff edge and hopefully a majority in parliament that says we're not going over that cliff-edge because we want to protect jobs, we want to protect rights, we want a trade relationship with Europe in the future. We don't want our NHS handed over to American healthcare companies which is exactly what Hunt and Johnson are proposing to do. 

Pienaar: But we don't know as of now whether Labour is leave or remain party. That's still a question?

Corbyn: We will give people the choice on this. That is something which is surely very important. We respect the result of the referendum, we've been through this whole long parliamentary process for the past three years and we've said, made it very clear we will do everything we can to take no deal off the table or stop a damaging deal of the sort Hunt and Johnson are proposing.

Pienaar: A referendum this side of an election, it's not for you, it's for the next conservative Prime Minister?

Corbyn: Only in part. We will obviously make our case to parliament if there's a chance at the end of July which I doubt. More likely in September we'll make our case to parliament of the need for a public choice and a public vote on this. Indeed our conference last year which after a lot of discussion came to a unanimous position which did include the option of a public vote. I'm taking that stage forward now to say we support that public vote. 

Pienaar: So the question of leave or remain that is for the future?

JC: We'll decide our policy when the election comes. But at this moment we will do everything we can to prevent no deal and give people a choice whether it's that or remain within the EU. 

Pienaar: When the time comes, have you any idea in your own mind, if it comes to the point where you can offer Labour Brexit, will the members, will MPs be able to campaign for remain as they choose? 

Corbyn: Listen, we're a very big party and people have many different views on it. What I've tried to do is reflect a majority and a consensus position, and I believe I've achieved that. And I'm very grateful to many colleagues in unions, the party, MPs and so on who have made a little bit of a jump in order to get to a position which we can all live with. And I'm very happy with that, I'm proud of that. So this summer we'll got out, doing everything we can to stop Hunt and Johnson destroying our economy. But what we will go out with the optimistic message of investment for the future, of equality, better healthcare, better social care, a real hope for young people, of an end to university fees, all the things that Labour feels so passionately about. Crucially the achievement we've made in getting parliament to agree to declare a climate emergency. So we take that issue out there, something that affects everybody in the whole world. 

Pienaar: Is it already too late to bring back the droves of Labour supporters and potential Labour supporters who deserted labour because of your positon so far on Brexit?

Corbyn: We will go out there in any campaign with an offer, and offer of an exciting future. A country that does invest in its young people, that does invest in and reduce inequality..

Pienaar: You've lost countless members...

Corbyn:  Let me finish. The grotesque levels of poverty and inequality in Britain is an insult. When the UN, the UN says we are disregarding the needs of the poorest people in our society surely that's a wakeup call.  Labour will offer something very different, a radical change in our country where we value everybody not the tax giveaways that Johnson and Hunt are competing with each other to give to the richest in our society.

Pienaar: Let me just briefly be clear on this. Have you not backed away under pressure from the mass membership, from your colleagues for fear of losing much more support?

Corbyn: Not a bit of it. I've been listening. And I've enjoyed it.

Pienaar: Let me ask you this just before we wind up on the question on anti-Semitism. There's continuing criticism of the party over its handling of anti-Semitism do you accept at least that it's damaged your party and it has to be confronted more urgently than we've seen so far?

Corbyn: Anti-Semitism is an absolute evil in our society. It's an evil in any country where it raises its head. It was an evil when the Nazis came to power and it's still an evil in many parts of Europe. There is no place whatsoever for anti-Semitism in my party, in our community, in our society or in our world. We will do everything we can to drive out anti-Semitism.

Pienaar: Rhetoric is fine, what more will and can you do?

Corbyn: We have staff in place investigating every case where a party member is accused of it or involved in it. Action is taken against them, either suspension or expulsion, but always after an investigation and a due process.

Pienaar: Thank you very much.