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To ask Her Majesty’s Government when legislation to modernise
the courts system will be introduced, as set out in the
Queen’s Speech.
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The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie)
(Con)
My Lords, the Government introduced the Courts and Tribunals
(Judiciary and Functions of Staff) Bill into the House of
Lords on Wednesday 23 May of this year. This legislation is
the first step in implementing the wider reform package and
the Government remain committed to implementing further court
reform legislation as soon as parliamentary time allows.
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(LD)
My Lords, it was nice to have such a quick response after
tabling my Question but it really is a little mouse of a
Bill. It has some useful provisions but why has it been
stripped of almost all the court modernisation measures which
were promised in the Queen’s Speech? How is it that halfway
through a two-year parliamentary Session the Government have
not found time for urgently needed and relatively
uncontroversial provisions to enable the courts to modernise
and speed up processes which cause delay and distress to
court users, and which cost money that could be better spent
improving access to justice?
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My Lords, this is a mouse that roared. It may be a small Bill
but it has extensive implications for the operation of our
court system. Splitting the legislation originally set out in
the Prison and Courts Bill will allow the Government to
progress these vital reforms utilising the time available in
both Houses.
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(CB)
My Lords, one matter that the Bill does not deal with is what
was addressed in Clause 37 of the Prison and Courts Bill. It
provided for rules for an online procedure in courts and
tribunals in appropriate cases. The Lord Chief Justice, the
noble and learned Lord, , has
recently stated the urgent need for such procedures. When
will the Government act on this much-needed reform?
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As I indicated to the noble Lord, , we intend to bring
forward all of the reforms anticipated in the original Bill,
which fell at the time of the general election, and we will
do so as and when parliamentary time allows.
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(Con)
My Lords, the Federation of Small Businesses is concerned
that, with the online court system that has just been
mentioned, there will be several disputes that small
businesses will not be able to use the system to resolve. I
would like to understand what the Government are doing for
the offline dispute system to ensure that it is speedy,
effective and cost effective in resolving some of these more
difficult disputes.
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My Lords, first, with regard to the online system, which is
being piloted in a number of areas, over 16,000 people have
already engaged with the pilots relating to online matters
such as divorce and minor pleas in road traffic cases. In
addition, we have the online system with regard to payment
claims. We appreciate that there are those who will continue
to have to engage with the offline systems and we are of
course concerned to ensure that we make further progress with
regard to court reform. But as I indicated earlier, that will
be brought forward as and when parliamentary time allows.
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(LD)
My Lords, what we need is accessibility: a set of proposals,
properly financed, for court staff, in person and over the
phone, court documents and online resources all to be
committed to helping court users, particularly litigants in
person, to navigate their way through the litigation process.
This will mean court officers changing their traditional
position that they are not there to give advice. What
proposals do the Government have along these lines?
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My Lords, there is no reason why reallocated court staff will
not be in a position to provide advice as they have in the
past. We are at the commencement of an extensive reform of
our court processes. Indeed, I quote the Lord Chief Justice
and the Senior President of Tribunals:
“While there is still much work to do, the introduction of
this Bill is a positive first step in legislation to deliver
reform”.
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The (CB)
My Lords, the recommendations of my noble friend Lord
Carlile’s inquiry into youth justice were, in particular, to
use youth courts, not adult courts, for young people, and
more problem-solving courts. Does the Minister agree that we
need to be more effective in dealing with young people in the
courts so that we stop the revolving door into custody?
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My Lords, I entirely agree with the observations of the noble
Earl.
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(Lab)
My Lords, the Government’s concept of modernisation of the
court system seems to include court closures up and down the
country and a reduction in the availability of legal aid,
which has led to a growth in the number of litigants in
person, causing great delays in the courts. In the
circumstances, is it not the Government’s duty to ensure that
any modernisation of the system is reflected in securing
access to justice as opposed to making some fairly minor
financial savings?
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My Lords, of course what is paramount in the context of this
reform is access to justice. As the reform programme
progresses, we expect that we will need fewer courts and we
will continue to review our estate to make sure that it is
able to maximise the benefits of the reformed courts and
tribunal service.
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(Con)
My Lords, there is an associated problem: the high cost of
litigation. With lawyers’ fees running at around £575 an hour
and barristers’ fees at more than £1,000 an hour, people are
priced out of justice. Is it not time that this cabal against
the public is looked at and examined by the Competition
Commission?
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My Lords, I cannot accept the estimates of counsels’ fees
that have been advanced at either the lower end or the higher
end. Of course we are taking steps to contain the cost of
access to justice, and it is important that we do so.
