Oral answer (Lords) on Brexit: Science and Research Funding - June 5

Asked by

• Lord Fox 

  To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they will take to ensure that there will be the same levels of funding for science and research if the UK withdraws from the EU.

• The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Henley) (Con) 

  My Lords, as set out in the Government’s industrial strategy, we are investing an additional £7 billion R&D funding by 2022, and aim to reach 2.4% of GDP by 2027. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made clear in her Jodrell Bank speech, we also want to continue our mutually beneficial relationship with the EU on research and innovation. This includes the option fully to associate ourselves with the excellence-based European science and innovation programmes.

• Lord Fox (LD) 

  My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. The numbers are to the Government’s credit: we are moving towards our research and development investment being close to where it should be. However, it has not necessarily answered my Question. In the event of the United Kingdom departing from the European Union, as the Minister alluded to, the cost of associating with a number of schemes with which, in his words, we wish to associate ourselves, will be very high. If we wish to participate—pay to play—in Horizon 2020 Future, if we wish to participate in the European defence fund, if we wish our students to participate in the Erasmus exchange programme, they alone will cost many billions of pounds. Will he undertake that there will be money additional to that number for those things to continue? If not, the United Kingdom’s science and technology industry and community will lose out. Will he make that commitment?

• Lord Henley 

  My Lords, I am not going to make any commitment in advance of the negotiations. As the noble Lord is aware, it is important that we get a good deal here, and I think it is in the interests of both the United Kingdom and the EU. The noble Lord will be aware of what Pascal Lamy said only a year ago:

   

  “Whatever Brexit modalities are agreed between the UK and the EU by 2019, full and continued engagement with the UK within the post-2020 EU R&I programme remains an obvious win-win for the UK and the EU”.

   

   

  The UK has one of the strongest science bases of all European countries. We want to continue negotiating on that basis, and we think that the EU does as well.

• Baroness Wheatcroft (Con) 

  My Lords, the European Medicines Agency is leaving the UK. Last month, the foundation-stone for its new headquarters in Amsterdam was laid. Cancer specialists and experts say that cancer patients and cancer research in the UK will be hit detrimentally by the departure of the EMA. Can the Minister please tell the House how the Government propose to alleviate that?

• Lord Henley 

  My Lords, in answer to the original Question, I made it clear that we will continue to negotiate to make sure that we get the best deal on research. We want to be involved in all the research-based programmes with which we have been involved, and I think it is in the interests of the EU that we are involved in them. That is why I quoted Pascal Lamy on the subject. Obviously, the negotiations will continue. We will have more to say in due course.

• Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab) 

  My Lords, on the question of regulatory harmony on medicines licensing, surely the point is that, unless a medicine’s registered licence in this country is recognised in the EU, companies will no longer invest in R&D in this country, which has a direct impact on the question put to the noble Lord.

• Lord Henley 

  My Lords, that is not happening at the moment, and it will not happen—

• Noble Lords 

  Oh!

• Lord Henley 

  It is not happening, and I think that we will get a deal that will be in the interests of the United Kingdom, because it is in the interests of the EU as well.

• Baroness Afshar (CB) 

  My Lords, are the Government aware that this is already happening? I declare an interest as a member of the University of York, where already researchers who were invaluable in the Dorothy Hodgkin programme have left because they could not renew their visas and found that it was much easier to find a similar job in Europe. It is a matter of great regret, and the loss to this country is going to be considerable. Would the Government please reconsider?

• Lord Henley 

  My Lords, we believe that EU students, researchers and staff and our own universities make a very important contribution to the United Kingdom. We believe that we have a very strong science sector, as I made clear earlier, and we want that contribution to continue. Given the quality of our higher education sector, which has something of the order of 10 universities in the top 100 world universities, we are confident that it will.

• Lord Cunningham of Felling (Lab) 

  My Lords, is the Minister sanguine about the negotiations on our membership of the Galileo programme? Has he or his department done any calculation as to what the consequences will be for the United Kingdom if we are excluded from that very important programme?

• Lord Henley 

  My Lords, we discussed the Galileo programme only a week or two ago, and I think from all sides of the House noble Lords are sanguine, as the noble Lord said, that we should continue to play a part in that. Government Ministers are doing all that they can to lobby their opposite numbers all around Europe to continue to take part in that. It is again in the United Kingdom’s interest but also in the interest of the rest of the European Union that we continue to play a part in Galileo.

• Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) 

  In the Minister’s first response that the UK would continue to receive substantial funding from Her Majesty’s Treasury for research, he gave a gross figure—I think that it was £7 billion by 2022—and then a figure of 4% of GDP by 2027. I would be grateful if he could clarify what exactly that was. The real question was whether the gap that was going to happen would be matched by the Government. What level of science and research spending is guaranteed to the science community in the UK, and for how long?

• Lord Henley 

  My Lords, as we set out in our industrial strategy, we want to see an increase in R&D, getting up to 2.4%, if I can correct the noble Lord—I think that he said 4%—by 2027. I reaffirm the other figure I gave to which the Prime Minister referred, that some £7 billion will be put into research and development by 2022.