Extracts from Parliamentary Proceedings - Feb 21
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Extracts from Committee stage (Lords) (day 1) of the European
Union (Withdrawal) Bill Lord Newby (LD):...There are those in
another place who say that this analysis is far too pessimistic and
who have castigated civil servants for deliberately including
unrealistic assumptions in it. There is one very narrow respect in
which I agree with the suggestion that some of the assumptions are
questionable: they are far too optimistic. The analysis assumes
that the UK will, over this period,...Request free trial
Extracts from Committee
stage (Lords) (day 1) of the European Union (Withdrawal)
Bill
Lord Newby (LD):...There are those in another place who say that this analysis is far too pessimistic and who have castigated civil servants for deliberately including unrealistic assumptions in it. There is one very narrow respect in which I agree with the suggestion that some of the assumptions are questionable: they are far too optimistic. The analysis assumes that the UK will, over this period, have entered free trade arrangements with the US, China, India, the TPP, the Gulf Cooperation Council, ASEAN, Australia and New Zealand. There is not a single soul who knows anything about trade negotiations who believes that that is possible. In that respect this analysis is too optimistic... Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab):...Let us take India. India is another apparent great prize but Mr Modi has said quite seriously that the first priority of India in negotiating a free trade agreement with this country would be a greater quota for Indian immigrants into this country. If we are acting on, or even being influenced by or taking account of, the referendum campaign then we know perfectly well that immigration was one of the most sensitive issues, if not the most sensitive issue, driving the result of that campaign. It would be extraordinarily perverse if the British Government now said that as a result of Brexit we would actually have more immigration from India or from anywhere else. Without more immigration, Mr Modi has said he is not interested in doing a deal... Lord Bilimoria (CB):..So often, we hear this talk of going global and that we are going to do trade deals with countries such as India. India would love to do a free trade deal with the UK, but the reality is that India has only nine bilateral free trade agreements with any countries in the world, not one of them a western country. If you speak to the Indian high commissioner over here, he says that India is very happy to do a free trade deal but, as the noble Lord, Lord Davies, said earlier, it is not just about goods and tariffs; it is about movement of people. The commissioner says: “What about international students? What about our IT workers coming here? What about the fact that the Chinese get two-year multiple-entry visas for business and tourists at £85 and we Indians have to pay £350? What about that? Then let’s talk about free trade deals”. David Davis mentioned dystopian. To me, the Brexiteers are living in a utopian world. We can drive a much better deal for Britain by applying the strength of the whole of Europe, rivalling any other world power. There is no either/or choice between trading with the European Union and trading with the rest of the world; we need to do both successfully, just as the Germans manage to do within the customs union. I have heard from the horse’s mouth where India is concerned. It is very clear: an EU-India free trade agreement is far more important to India than a UK-India free trade agreement. It is simple: 500 million people or 65 million people; there is no comparison. Let us get real. Then we have talk that, the moment we leave, we will just roll over these 50-plus free trade agreements that the EU has and do UK free trade deals with those countries straightaway—again, utopian dream land. Already, countries such as South Korea have said, “Hang on! We have to renegotiate that. We did a free trade deal with the EU on the basis of 500 million people and the world’s biggest free market. You want us to treat you in the same way with 65 million people? Forget it. Let’s renegotiate”. Lord Patten of Barnes (Con): Does the noble Lord recall that we made very good progress in the European Union in trying to negotiate a free trade agreement with India? It was actually slowed down—indeed, blocked—by the United Kingdom.
Lord Bilimoria: Well, we have
worked for a long time to do a free trade deal with India, and it
is in the offing. The Canadian one took eight years. Let us again
be absolutely realistic about this... Lord Green of Deddington (CB): Perhaps I may make a brief point. The noble Baroness is absolutely right about India. What is missing from this discussion, and the noble Lord, Lord Davies, referred to it, is that in the future we will be able to substantially reduce migration from the European Union, much of which is low paid and therefore of less value, and that will give us some leeway when talking to countries such as India.
Baroness Kramer: The answer that I
give to the noble Lord, Lord Green, is one that would be given by
many people in this House. To reduce immigration to the tens of
thousands means not only drastically and dramatically reducing
European migration, it means drastically and dramatically
reducing migration from elsewhere in the world. That is the
reality that our employers in the various industry sectors
face...
Extract from
Westminster Hall debate on Leaving the EU: No-deal
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