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To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they are
giving to removing Hamas from their list of terrorist
organisations, in the light of its reconciliation agreement
with Fatah and reports of its willingness to hold new
elections and to recognise the international frontiers of
Israel.
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(CB)
My Lords, I declare an indirect interest in that since 2007 I
have visited many Hamas leaders in both Gaza and the West
Bank. I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name.
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The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of
Trafford) (Con)
My Lords, the military wing of Hamas is a proscribed
organisation. It is not government policy to provide a
running commentary on any proscribed organisation. The
Terrorism Act 2000 allows the Home Secretary to consider
deproscription by written application.
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My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Of course I did
not expect her to say yes immediately. Nevertheless, does she
agree that the situation has changed profoundly since Hamas
was first listed? Would delisting not help all sides to be
rather less intransigent than they have been up to now? Would
it not build confidence among all Palestinians and help
support their new Government of unity? Will she at least take
away this Question and discuss it with her ministerial
colleagues, since it crosses departmental boundaries?
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I acknowledge that the noble Lord raises a challenging and
complex issue. It is difficult to predict the impact that a
particular course of action may have as the situation is so
complex. The UK remains a strong supporter of promoting
peace.
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(Lab)
My Lords, the reconciliation agreement between the two
Palestinian factions is surely to be welcomed and potentially
gives Israel a negotiating partner. However, will the
Minister confirm that Hamas still calls for the destruction
of Israel, that its military wing still builds tunnels to
attack Israel, and that it sends rockets into southern
Israel?
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My Lords, I acknowledge what the noble Lord is saying.
However, it is government policy not to provide a running
commentary on any proscribed organisation.
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(LD)
My Lords, as Britain was a signatory of the Balfour
Declaration, and as the Government support a two-state
solution, does the Minister think the time has come to
recognise the state of Palestine, as more than 130 other
countries have done?
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My Lords, as we approach the centenary we are conscious of
the sensitivities that many people have about the declaration
and the protection of political rights of the non-Jewish
community in Palestine. We also recognise the continued
impediment of the occupation towards securing political
rights. We are clear that we want to see the creation of a
sovereign, independent, democratic, contiguous and viable
Palestinian state living in peace and security side by side
with Israel.
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(Con)
My Lords, while I am sure that we all welcome any indication
of a more peaceful approach from what undoubtedly has been a
clear terrorist organisation for some time, does my noble
friend agree that the very minimum we should require from
Hamas and others is that they acknowledge the basic right of
the state of Israel to exist and to be fully part of the
international community, and to respect its democracy?
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My noble friend is right. That is clearly one of the
expectations we have in our policy on Hamas.
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(CB)
My Lords, the Question refers to the international frontiers
of Israel. Do those frontiers include the Golan Heights and
east Jerusalem?
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My Lords, the noble Lord is straying into Foreign Office
territory, on which I am not yet an expert. I shall have to
get back to him on that, if that is okay.
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(Lab)
My Lords, while the actions of the military wing of Hamas
have been wrong, totally unacceptable and cannot be condoned,
is it not important to recognise in political terms that
Hamas is a pluralist organisation? Is it not vital to
strengthen the more moderate elements within Hamas,
particularly at this time of reconciliation between the PLO
and Hamas? Should we not remember that in our own history,
starting with John Major and pursued by the Labour Government
that followed, we began to make progress on a solution in
Northern Ireland when it was recognised that we must find
ways of talking to the political wing of the IRA?
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My Lords, as I said earlier, we will not provide a running
commentary on any proscribed organisations. I have already
laid out some of what we expect from Hamas.
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(CB)
My Lords, what is the mechanism by which a proscribed
organisation becomes delisted? Does it require a court
process to achieve that?
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My Lords, it does not require a court process but an
application to the Home Secretary.
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(Con)
My Lords, it beggars belief that we are discussing, in the
centenary week of Balfour, talk of removing Hamas from the
terrorist list. The organisation has not renounced terror and
it still calls for killing Jews and the destruction of
Israel. Does the Minister agree that any reconciliation deal
between Fatah and Hamas, which should be welcomed, should
require that Hamas be disarmed, because Israel certainly
cannot be expected to negotiate with a terror group that
calls for its destruction?
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My Lords, our policy on Hamas is very clear. The group must
renounce violence, recognise Israel and accept previously
signed agreements. We now expect to see credible movement
towards these conditions, which remain the benchmark against
which its intentions should be judged. We call on those in
the region with influence over Hamas to encourage the group
to take these steps.
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(Lab)
My Lords, I do not wish to pursue the specific issue raised
in the Question but to raise a more general point. What
reviews have the Government undertaken to establish exactly
what impact proscribing an organisation actually has, as
opposed to what it is intended to have, on the unacceptable
activities of those who were in membership of that
organisation as opposed to the impact of proscription on the
organisation itself?
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My Lords, what I can say about the impact of proscription is
that those groups are illegal entities in this country. They
are not allowed to promote their policies or to progress some
of the things that they want—for example, the destruction of
Israel.
